If you are against to Erdogan, you will be declared as a terrorist at best. He is a control freak, and lost his sanity when he was a little boy. People of Turkey suffer a lot because of him.
The brain drain faced by Turkey in the last century is getting to even further extremes. I'm doubtful that the universities can restore their past reputation or 'quality,' but Turkish academics themselves will hopefully persevere and flourish in other countries.
Not all academics are pursued by the government. However, if you state an opinion against the government openly or are an expert in an important field such as constitutional law or state theory you are sure to face some consequences.
For example all my constitutional law professors at one of the most prominent law faculties in Turkey were either arrested or forced to retire. Nowadays, our professors only state that new laws contradict the whole legal system but are afraid to speak out. For example, there are horrifying changes with executive decrees to the most basic rights such as Habeas Corpus. They contradict with the constitution but no one can take these executive decrees to the supreme court, because that is not allowed. The professors jokingly state that they do not want to speak further about these subjects, because they do not want to be subjected to these very laws they'd want to criticize.
It's funny to read people being astonished about the habeas corpus violations in turkey, while hapily forgetting the US disregarded it too since the patriot act.
The scale of violence is not the same, but you are sliding in the wrong directions too.
This Trump dictator hysteria is getting ridiculous (responding to the article you linked.)
If anything we should be alarmed now outraged that the FBI was actually working to influence American elections — which is what the evidence is starting to heavily suggest. But, that is another discussion.
Right wing nutcases were talking about the potential of Obama postponing elections or attempting to seek a third term or similar malarkey— we laughed at those people just a few years ago but now we are seeing almost identical and equally nonsensical claims about Trump — for no other reason than ideological disagreement and Hillary-Defeat-Depressive-Syndrome.
Here’s a link about an Obama third term scenario for Zero Hedge — a variation of this FUD was posted all over various right wing blogs.
And now, right on cue, we have the left doing the same thing.
Just stop. Trump doesn’t care about being a dictator, he just wants to finish his presidency and cash in on the speaking circuit and book tours while kicking back in Florida.
I am not necessarily for or against Trump — but I am definitely tired of otherwise intelligent people falling into some of the most factless wild-eyed conspiracy theories.
The implication that the US is similar to Turkey is not even remotely supported by facts or history. Let’s stop with the false equivalencies.
"No other reason"? What kind of total eclipse of the senses is that? The man is unfit for public service; no, does not even know the meaning of those words. A low-intellect real estate dealer from New York is among the very, very last people on earth to be permitted the office and the power he wields. Those of us constantly panicking (for a score of months now) do so for such obvious reasons - the stream of illegal/corrupt messages spewing forth at America daily from what should be the most sober, deliberate speaker in the nation.
If we're suffering from some kind of potus-ptsd, perhaps there's a reason.
What briandear is trying to say is that extreme points of view damage the democracy regardless of whether they are to the left or right.
And your point is extreme, for example. You are claiming that he is unfit. That's your opinion but wasn't the opinion of millions of people.
Personally I think he is extremely unqualified, and should not have been elected. Again, this doesn't matter.
The point is, he is the president, trying to delegitimize him serves no good to this country.
A democracy is built on the losing side acquiescing and letting the majority rule. This is why it was a big deal when Trump stated ahead of the elections that he would dispute them if he lost: it was a threat to the Democratic process. A civil war is the final result of this, when the minority does not want to give up control.
I like that characterization of the man: "a threat to the Democratic process". He's gamed the system, similar to the way Julius Caesar gamed elections once upon a time, without regard to the damage he was doing. Its all about him.
He is not a legitimate president; he's a fool that used transparent car-salesman blather to sway an election. Most of those 'millions' have lived to regret their foolishness.
Many democratic processes have recall ability. Now that the majority despise this fool, its time we used such a route to fix this. "Serves no purpose?" What can that possibly mean. Of course it serves the purpose of not having a child in charge of the entire nation.
Hyperbole and hysteria are no way to go through life. Most people who voted for trump haven't lived to regret their foolishness. That's nonsense. And it is rare for a majority to love a president. Obama had some tough moments himself and that's with newspapers and magazines literally painting him as emperors of past.
We'll survive Trump, just like we survived Obama, and survived Bush, and Clinton, etc etc.
Not 'just like'; maybe not at all. This is where we fundamentally disagree.
There's no way to whitewash this president; comparing him to previous disagreeable presidents does a disservice to everybody. The degree to which things are off the rails is absolutely unprecedented in American history.
Can you offer any examples besides him using naughty words? Foreign relations vis a vis Russia, China, N. Korea, Syria seem to be edging slightly in the US and allies favor. A compromise DACA agreement is imminent. The tax cut will cost a lot less than the ACA did, and stimulate the economy much more.
I'm just not seeing where things are off the rails except for our social and political elitist continued clutching of pearls and running for their fainting couches, exactly 8 years after they marched in the streets with puppets of Bush being lynched. Maybe not how you want, but off the rails is hyperbole.
A democracy is built on the losing side acquiescing and letting the majority rule.
Just because something is "democratic" doesn't mean it's inherently just, good, fair, or noble. Democracies have their own pathologies - see, for example, the "Tyranny of the Majority"[1] problem.
And never forget these words from "Johnny Got His Gun":
Father: You're gonna make the world safe for democracy!
Joe Age 10: What is democracy?
Father: Well it's never bright clear on myself.
Like any other kind government it's got something to
do with young men killing each other I believe.
For example, one of the arguments in my official indictment was that I had visited the United States and Canada, countries favoured by supporters of the movement that the government believes was behind the coup.
That's crazy.
But why is he already out when he was sentenced to six years in prison on December 20, 2017?
There is something called conditional release, where you get to leave prison early. Maybe he benefited from that. Basically, now that all prisons exceeded maximum capacity, if you commit a crime that requires up to 5 years of punishment you don't have to go to jail. You can directly benefit from a conditional release. For example if you steal something, and you don't have any previous criminal record, you walk free due to overcrowding.
In Turkey, prison sentences seem long on the paper, in real life you always get released a lot early. Especially now that prisons are hugely overcrowded.
The text reads: ".. in July 2016. Theoretical physicist Ali Kaya is one of them. He was arrested three months after the failed coup and held for more than a year before his trial took place. On 20 December ..." — that sounds like December 2016 to me, not 2017.
No, it reads: "He was arrested three months after the failed coup and held for more than a year before his trial took place. On 20 December, a court declared him guilty of being a member of a terrorist organization and sentenced him to six years of imprisonment
The coup was in July 2016. He was arrested after 3 months (October 2016) and after waiting for more than a year in prison, the sentence was declared. This makes it December 2017. Anyway, that doesn't even matter. 6 minus 1 year is still 5 years, and the articles reads as he's already out. What am I missing?
> One of my students Google-translated some research papers for me into Turkish, but they were held back on suspicion that they included secret codes — presumably because they contained so many equations.
Such a fearful and non-results-oriented suspicion. Even if a physicist were able to hide messages in equations, what malicious activity did they believe he could accomplish?
Not to mention the availability of vastly more suitable communication channels. I recall American news media giving a similar justification for not showing video statements by Al Qaeda. It was certainly realistic to expect that Al Qaeda would engage in communications with malicious effect, but it seems like quite a stretch that they'd rely on CNN to be their C&C channel. Maybe it hadn't quite sunk in at that point that the Internet extends well beyond the US.
The politician who takes away freedoms is more like the accomplice.
It's like when a robber points a gun (fear based propaganda) at your head, and while you stand there paralyzed with fear their friend (the scheming politician) empties your pockets.
The media station which airs the fear based propaganda receives more views and profits, and the politcian that harangues on that fear gets more votes and power.
Its not a strech. Not showing videos released from terrorist groups, might be a valid strategy. After all, terrorism is a means of political communication through violence. When you remove one of the most potent channels of communication, you could remove the ability of these groups to 'terrorize'. Albeit, in times of facebook youtube and twitter this is not possible anymore.
So theoretically, a valid idea. Practically not possible and maybe even counterproductive.
There are some people so desperately crying out for us to stop our government from killing innocent people overseas without our consent that they feel the situation is all but hopeless, so they start killing and causing destruction themselves to draw attention to the problem, and government simply doesn't want the voters to see that.
My taxes support this at least. Ramstein Air Base is a relay station in the drone wars and is partly supported by the German government. And I don't like it either. The scale of it is disproportionate and counterproductive. With each drone bombing, they kill 2 terrorists and create 20 new ones.
That's an entirely different and far more rational argument for the policy. It does nothing to validate (and in some sense is the opposite of) the "secret messages" argument.
>Do you know where the literacy rate in Turkey is highest? In Silivri. Because there is Turkey's largest prison, and it is full of writers, journalists, scientists and intellectuals. There is a fairly extensive prison library there, which is steadily growing, as each inmate author asks his publisher for donations or donates his books to the library at the end of his stay. When I was there I happily discovered four of my books in the catalog. Imagine, you are behind bars as "offenders" and your books are there to "help the offenders better them self". Another piece of black humor in this matter: Once a prisoner asked for a book, the librarian's answer was: "We do not have the book, but its author is here."
I spent a memorable day once with a Turkish acquaintance who was also doing archival research in Lisbon when I was doing my PhD work there. Her mother came to visit and we walked all around the city.
My acquaintance's mother and father both turned out to be prominent Turkish intellectuals. I asked her mother how she'd met her father - it turned out they met in prison. She said that was a pretty common origin story for Turkish academic couples of her generation, because that was where all the smart people were.
Most people I meet from Turkey have a story of state persecution. One guy wrote two books in prison before being released awaiting trial. He fled when the verdict came down.
42 comments
[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 95.3 ms ] threadFor example all my constitutional law professors at one of the most prominent law faculties in Turkey were either arrested or forced to retire. Nowadays, our professors only state that new laws contradict the whole legal system but are afraid to speak out. For example, there are horrifying changes with executive decrees to the most basic rights such as Habeas Corpus. They contradict with the constitution but no one can take these executive decrees to the supreme court, because that is not allowed. The professors jokingly state that they do not want to speak further about these subjects, because they do not want to be subjected to these very laws they'd want to criticize.
The scale of violence is not the same, but you are sliding in the wrong directions too.
The process is "gradual and then suddenly".
If anything we should be alarmed now outraged that the FBI was actually working to influence American elections — which is what the evidence is starting to heavily suggest. But, that is another discussion.
Right wing nutcases were talking about the potential of Obama postponing elections or attempting to seek a third term or similar malarkey— we laughed at those people just a few years ago but now we are seeing almost identical and equally nonsensical claims about Trump — for no other reason than ideological disagreement and Hillary-Defeat-Depressive-Syndrome.
Here’s a link about an Obama third term scenario for Zero Hedge — a variation of this FUD was posted all over various right wing blogs.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-16/obama-wants-third-...
And now, right on cue, we have the left doing the same thing.
Just stop. Trump doesn’t care about being a dictator, he just wants to finish his presidency and cash in on the speaking circuit and book tours while kicking back in Florida.
I am not necessarily for or against Trump — but I am definitely tired of otherwise intelligent people falling into some of the most factless wild-eyed conspiracy theories.
The implication that the US is similar to Turkey is not even remotely supported by facts or history. Let’s stop with the false equivalencies.
If we're suffering from some kind of potus-ptsd, perhaps there's a reason.
And your point is extreme, for example. You are claiming that he is unfit. That's your opinion but wasn't the opinion of millions of people.
Personally I think he is extremely unqualified, and should not have been elected. Again, this doesn't matter.
The point is, he is the president, trying to delegitimize him serves no good to this country.
A democracy is built on the losing side acquiescing and letting the majority rule. This is why it was a big deal when Trump stated ahead of the elections that he would dispute them if he lost: it was a threat to the Democratic process. A civil war is the final result of this, when the minority does not want to give up control.
He is not a legitimate president; he's a fool that used transparent car-salesman blather to sway an election. Most of those 'millions' have lived to regret their foolishness.
Many democratic processes have recall ability. Now that the majority despise this fool, its time we used such a route to fix this. "Serves no purpose?" What can that possibly mean. Of course it serves the purpose of not having a child in charge of the entire nation.
We'll survive Trump, just like we survived Obama, and survived Bush, and Clinton, etc etc.
There's no way to whitewash this president; comparing him to previous disagreeable presidents does a disservice to everybody. The degree to which things are off the rails is absolutely unprecedented in American history.
I'm just not seeing where things are off the rails except for our social and political elitist continued clutching of pearls and running for their fainting couches, exactly 8 years after they marched in the streets with puppets of Bush being lynched. Maybe not how you want, but off the rails is hyperbole.
Just because something is "democratic" doesn't mean it's inherently just, good, fair, or noble. Democracies have their own pathologies - see, for example, the "Tyranny of the Majority"[1] problem.
And never forget these words from "Johnny Got His Gun":
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majorityAlthough we embrace democracy that doesn’t mean we embrace relativism.
Ive found the trump haters really never entertain dialogue and are nothing more than an eztension of some psyops operation
That's crazy.
But why is he already out when he was sentenced to six years in prison on December 20, 2017?
"[They] released him early owing to the time he had already served in prison while awaiting trial."
In Turkey, prison sentences seem long on the paper, in real life you always get released a lot early. Especially now that prisons are hugely overcrowded.
The coup was in July 2016. He was arrested after 3 months (October 2016) and after waiting for more than a year in prison, the sentence was declared. This makes it December 2017. Anyway, that doesn't even matter. 6 minus 1 year is still 5 years, and the articles reads as he's already out. What am I missing?
Such a fearful and non-results-oriented suspicion. Even if a physicist were able to hide messages in equations, what malicious activity did they believe he could accomplish?
It's like when a robber points a gun (fear based propaganda) at your head, and while you stand there paralyzed with fear their friend (the scheming politician) empties your pockets.
The media station which airs the fear based propaganda receives more views and profits, and the politcian that harangues on that fear gets more votes and power.
So theoretically, a valid idea. Practically not possible and maybe even counterproductive.
But the big question I ask myself, and ask of others: Are you innocent?
Do yours?
Sadly I couldn't find a translation in English, but the original in Turkish is also linked
http://www.zeit.de/2017/43/meinungsfreiheit-tuerkei-haeftlin... http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2017-10/meinungsfreiheit-tuerkei-h...
The first paragraph is a rather good summary
>Do you know where the literacy rate in Turkey is highest? In Silivri. Because there is Turkey's largest prison, and it is full of writers, journalists, scientists and intellectuals. There is a fairly extensive prison library there, which is steadily growing, as each inmate author asks his publisher for donations or donates his books to the library at the end of his stay. When I was there I happily discovered four of my books in the catalog. Imagine, you are behind bars as "offenders" and your books are there to "help the offenders better them self". Another piece of black humor in this matter: Once a prisoner asked for a book, the librarian's answer was: "We do not have the book, but its author is here."
My acquaintance's mother and father both turned out to be prominent Turkish intellectuals. I asked her mother how she'd met her father - it turned out they met in prison. She said that was a pretty common origin story for Turkish academic couples of her generation, because that was where all the smart people were.