> The simple fact is, if you drink untreated water, you’re taking on a non-negligible amount of risk.
I wonder how much the propensity for American backpackers to filter water comes from the actual risk faced while drinking water in US rivers, and how much come from the crazy risk aversion in the US society nowadays. In Norway or Sweden, backpackers often don't carry water bottles and drink directly from the river with a cup. In France, I've never met someone filtering water.
The same way, parents can't let their children play outside or go to school alone in the US, while it's often the norm in many parts of Europe. There is indeed a “non-negligible” risk, but individuals put the threshold higher.
In Switzerland we asked while mountain biking if it was safe to fill up from one of these spring water things we saw everywhere: they would dump into a large log cut out into a sort of sink. They looked at us, puzzled "what do you mean, it's spring water," and they filled their bottles.
Backpacking everywhere in Switzerland people drank directly from these, and from streams And waterfalls, without filtration. And the Swiss are looking for any excuse to have something to spend their money on.
It’s unfiltered fresh spring water yes, but these are still human-built fountains with a known source where the water quality is measured in regular intervals. It’s not a random stream in the woods.
Switzerand is much smaller, so we have people checking on these regularly.
I always drink from these fountains, they’re all safe except the very few that have a “not potable” sign.
I wouldn’t drink from a random stream of water in the woods.
I see. Well, anyways we also filled up from streams and waterfalls, as did other locals among us. I also filled up from streams and waterfalls in many other parts of the world--I'm am avid backpacker and I have done thois hundreds of times. I've never been sick. However, I this was always water coming down from mountain summits. I wouldn't fill up from a stream running through the middle of a cattle ranch.
After watching a video titled "How Bacteria Rule Over Your Body – The Microbiome"[1] from "kurzgesagt", I'm very curious to know if unfiltered water can have also a positive effect on our microbiome. Maybe we're creating a world that's too hygienic? (edit: the video doesn't answer, or even mention, what I'm asking. I'm asking because the idea sounded plausible to me)
Giardia and Cryptosporidium aren’t going to give you a positive effect. They are going to make you sick. And those are the biggest risks from untreated stream water.
There is always the appeal to nature argument. Slightly off topic. On one of my hikes with my dog. I wouldn't let him drink from a stream. Some people near by waved to me and said "It is fine! Dogs know good water". I thought how absurd. Another time we came across some small animals. He has a high prey drive. He made some aggressive advancements towards the creatures. I called him off. A person sharing our hike made the comment that it was okay. If he ate the small animal it would be good for him. It is natural. I said no the possibility of my dog contracting a parasite like tape worm would be a very bad thing. Nature can kill or hurt you in very natural ways.
Any many other microorganisms including Leptospira.
The latter can be acquired through the skin by swimming in the wrong areas in Hawaii [1]. Giardia can be difficult to treat and give you horrible problems for years as happened to one friend. Another friend acquired boils with visible nematodes under the skin from wading near Belem in Brazil. As a field biologist one is constantly reminded that nature is not benign. However local knowledge can usually keep one out of trouble, with the disclaimer that sadly in almost all of the world even its wildest most remote corners, the organism that poses the greatest danger is Homo sapiens.
It depends were you're backpacking. I'd drink from a mountain stream in the Alps but would you drink from the Seine? But I admit that you have a point: people need to use common sense.
I feel this comment is very generalizing. I’m not so sure if Americans are “risk-averse”. There needs to be a balance between risk and reward. I live in a part of Europe, where ticks are widespread. Of course you could go into the woods with short pants in summer time, but I don’t. Oh, BTW: American tourists do...
There might be reasons why it’s safer in Europe than the US.
One example is locally the entire underground water supply west of Ann Arbor, MI was polluted by Gelman Chemicals illegally dumping over decades. Now that’s not a river, but there are many similar stories about rivers being heavily polluted in the US. I don’t know but it’s possible these kinda of situations are much more rare in Europe.
It’s also possible those Europeans are acting recklessly and cases of protean infection are much higher than in the US due to our propensity to filter.
My point is this anecdote alone is not good enough to draw a conclusion from.
You must not get out very much if you think parents don’t let their children play outside. So much misinformation being spouted off.
Norway and Sweden have artic climates. Similar to Alaska, I know people in the back country drink straight from Glacial streams. Less chance of bacteria in colder climates.
Its the same in the Alps and many mountain ranges across the US.
Mostly what I'm seeing in these threads are people that are confused by the difference between water sources. Generally speaking, each varied source of water has a different risk. It doesn't matter if you're in France, Nigeria, Colombia, Colorado, or Japan, the risk profile from drinking out of a swamp is not going to be similar to drinking fresh water coming down off a Swiss mountain.
Before I had my daughter, I spent quite a bit of time outside. I was a member of the Alpine Club of Canada, a frequent hiker, devout skier, mediocre climber and aspiring mountaineer.
I learned to look at everything in terms of greater risk. So, if I'm lost outside and don't have any fresh water what is a bigger risk? Am I an imminent risk of dying from dehydration, or is the thirst so extreme that I'm becoming a danger to myself? In that case, I've got to figure out drinking, even if it means that I'm drinking out of some nasty watering hole. On the other hand, if death isn't imminent and (if I'm alone) I'm still aware that I'm talking to myself, I would avoid unfiltered water.
I've never hiked or climbed in Europe, but I remember talking with another climber who told me that the biggest difference is when you're outside in North America, you find tons of garbage everywhere, whereas European climbers and hiker all seem to have internalized the lug it in/lug it out mentality we should all aspire to. Does that match your experience?
If that is the case, I would be at far greater risk of drinking sketchy water in Europe than in North America. I've been in relatively remote places in Canada and yet, I can always find a plastic pop/water bottle discarded on the ground. As long as you've got a plastic bottle and fire, you can boil water. It's horrible tasting water, but it's safe.
It all depends on your location on the planet. I wouldn't dare to drink unfiltered water in areas in Africa, where the dangers of parasites is way higher, than, say, in Sweden.
In Hungary, it's perfectly fine to drink water from springs, but only right at the point where it leaves the earth. Drink from it in a later point, an old fashion diarrhea is more than probable.
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[ 4.2 ms ] story [ 30.2 ms ] threadI wonder how much the propensity for American backpackers to filter water comes from the actual risk faced while drinking water in US rivers, and how much come from the crazy risk aversion in the US society nowadays. In Norway or Sweden, backpackers often don't carry water bottles and drink directly from the river with a cup. In France, I've never met someone filtering water.
The same way, parents can't let their children play outside or go to school alone in the US, while it's often the norm in many parts of Europe. There is indeed a “non-negligible” risk, but individuals put the threshold higher.
Backpacking everywhere in Switzerland people drank directly from these, and from streams And waterfalls, without filtration. And the Swiss are looking for any excuse to have something to spend their money on.
I’d never drink untreated water in Michigan. Michigan was a giant swamp. Near the top of a summit in Switzerland with no livestock nearby? Sure.
Switzerand is much smaller, so we have people checking on these regularly.
I always drink from these fountains, they’re all safe except the very few that have a “not potable” sign.
I wouldn’t drink from a random stream of water in the woods.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzPD009qTN4
1 http://health.hawaii.gov/about/files/2013/06/leptobrochure.p...
Regarding the specific risk, this was discussed here last week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16320964
One example is locally the entire underground water supply west of Ann Arbor, MI was polluted by Gelman Chemicals illegally dumping over decades. Now that’s not a river, but there are many similar stories about rivers being heavily polluted in the US. I don’t know but it’s possible these kinda of situations are much more rare in Europe.
It’s also possible those Europeans are acting recklessly and cases of protean infection are much higher than in the US due to our propensity to filter.
My point is this anecdote alone is not good enough to draw a conclusion from.
The Emscher is still biologically dead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emscher .
US rivers are also better than the mid-1900s, like in 1969 when the Cuyahoga fire.
Norway and Sweden have artic climates. Similar to Alaska, I know people in the back country drink straight from Glacial streams. Less chance of bacteria in colder climates.
Its the same in the Alps and many mountain ranges across the US.
https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/2/where-in-the-...
I learned to look at everything in terms of greater risk. So, if I'm lost outside and don't have any fresh water what is a bigger risk? Am I an imminent risk of dying from dehydration, or is the thirst so extreme that I'm becoming a danger to myself? In that case, I've got to figure out drinking, even if it means that I'm drinking out of some nasty watering hole. On the other hand, if death isn't imminent and (if I'm alone) I'm still aware that I'm talking to myself, I would avoid unfiltered water.
I've never hiked or climbed in Europe, but I remember talking with another climber who told me that the biggest difference is when you're outside in North America, you find tons of garbage everywhere, whereas European climbers and hiker all seem to have internalized the lug it in/lug it out mentality we should all aspire to. Does that match your experience?
If that is the case, I would be at far greater risk of drinking sketchy water in Europe than in North America. I've been in relatively remote places in Canada and yet, I can always find a plastic pop/water bottle discarded on the ground. As long as you've got a plastic bottle and fire, you can boil water. It's horrible tasting water, but it's safe.
In Hungary, it's perfectly fine to drink water from springs, but only right at the point where it leaves the earth. Drink from it in a later point, an old fashion diarrhea is more than probable.