You don't value privacy enough to donate to the EFF [1], ACLU [2] or upcoming Signal Foundation [3]. That's okay. I don't max out my philanthropic budget to privacy-related causes. You also don't value privacy enough to call your representatives every time a privacy-related bill comes up. That, too, is okay. I don't do it every time.
If you aren't fighting, that is fine. But don't be lazy and declare sour grapes on the whole movement in defense.
I am fighting. I try to explain carefully and clearly to anyone who will listen, how important privacy is. I have already convinced my immediate family to change their minds from the "I have nothing to hide" attitude. It has been seeping in for my friends as well.
> I try to explain carefully and clearly to anyone who will listen, how important privacy is....It doesn't matter. We lost
Either you don’t think Hacker News contains “anyone who will listen” or your position is inconsistent.
In any case, you’re wrong. Nothing has been lost with finality; small wins are made every day. The single thing holding us back is popular apathy. The second thing is apathy amongst technologists (or their preference for being melodramatic).
Glad to know you're fighting; sad to hear we lost. But maybe the war is not yet over.
I think what we've really lost, and continue to lose, is respect. But that's just the respect from those above us in the mythical hierarchy. We can still respect ourselves, and choose to respect other people's privacy. Every day that I don't turn my binoculars on my neighbor's window is another victory, however small, for privacy.
Don't forget internet connected cars and their cameras acting as LPR's and microphones. Then there is the microphone many folks is buying and installing in their home. A coworker already had their roommate purchase a large quantity of adult toys using that spy device.
Has anyone considered starting a new industry around anti-spy devices that babble nonsense to your other spy devices? Or is there perhaps a script on github for this yet?
I consider it worse than malicious. It's a spy device, but you pay for it and provide it paid bandwidth. I would never use one. My coworkers roommate is however and the pranks are endless.
I really like what I've read about Mycroft so far. Not only is it open source, but you can actually configure it to connect to servers you host. That last bit was what made me decide to back Mycroft v2 on Kickstarter.
It’s saddening but not surprising how much of this technology was developed for killing people abroad, and is now being used against US citizens.
Deploying Predator drones that can detect a face at 25kft from Afghanistan on US soil, without any meaningful regulation or political debate, is pretty terrifying.
Not trying to twist you words, just trying to understand your POV: was it more acceptable to you when it was being deployed to kill people in other countries?
Typical we are more comfortable with military tech being used far away in war zones than we are with it being used at home against US civilians. The presidents choosing not to formally declare war doesn’t change the layman view of our middle eastern combat activities.
"Typical we are more comfortable with military tech being used far away in war zones than we are with it being used at home against US civilians."
And drone usage is going to make it even worse. People isn't exposed anymore to the effects of being at war, so that the stronger side has no incentive to stop fighting. In the past people hated the war because of the high risk that loved ones could return in a coffin; nowadays only the enemies die, and at a convenient distance, so brainwashed masses don't develop hostility to the war but rather keep hating an enemy they have never met just because the TV says so. That's the first step to an endless state of war which is the best customer the weapon industry could dream about.
Can't speak for GP, but while I find the actual deployment of killing technology abhorrent no matter where it may occur, I think there's also additional bad faith to be seen in the pretext that these devices are initially about "national defense" (or some other similarly outdated platitude) but then are quickly introduced as a part of routine domestic law enforcement practice.
We're led to believe that there is some wall of separation between these two, and the rapidity of adoption of this tech for domestic purposes reminds us quite clearly that that isn't so.
What did you think they meant when they said "national security"? Obviously it was something like, "we are the nation and we need to secure ourselves from all enemies foreign and domestic".
Bend over for your ritual digital pat-down. Good citizen.
My point is not that Americans being surveilled is worse than Afghans being killed. It's that the disregard for the norms of liberal democracies (generally accepted during wars) seems to be bleeding into civilian life, and I worry that it points to an increasing authoritarian tendency in Western governments.
It's terrifying to me in the same way that it's terrifying to see policemen dressed up as soldiers during civil unrest, waving assault rifles around and barking commands like they're invading their own country.
"In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people."
What worries me most about the interception tech, such as stingrays, is that I myself can build one, or buy one off the shelf, and the communication systems are not robust enough to thwart it. Techs like GSM have serious flaws in them and agencies are using those holes to do whatever they want, with no oversight. But that's just the top of the iceberg. What about criminals?
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[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 74.2 ms ] threadYou don't value privacy enough to donate to the EFF [1], ACLU [2] or upcoming Signal Foundation [3]. That's okay. I don't max out my philanthropic budget to privacy-related causes. You also don't value privacy enough to call your representatives every time a privacy-related bill comes up. That, too, is okay. I don't do it every time.
If you aren't fighting, that is fine. But don't be lazy and declare sour grapes on the whole movement in defense.
[1] https://supporters.eff.org/donate
[2] https://action.aclu.org/give/donate-to-aclu
[3] https://signalfoundation.org
I already donate to the EFF.
I already call my representatives in Congress.
I am fighting. I try to explain carefully and clearly to anyone who will listen, how important privacy is. I have already convinced my immediate family to change their minds from the "I have nothing to hide" attitude. It has been seeping in for my friends as well.
It doesn't matter. We lost.
Either you don’t think Hacker News contains “anyone who will listen” or your position is inconsistent.
In any case, you’re wrong. Nothing has been lost with finality; small wins are made every day. The single thing holding us back is popular apathy. The second thing is apathy amongst technologists (or their preference for being melodramatic).
I think what we've really lost, and continue to lose, is respect. But that's just the respect from those above us in the mythical hierarchy. We can still respect ourselves, and choose to respect other people's privacy. Every day that I don't turn my binoculars on my neighbor's window is another victory, however small, for privacy.
Don't give up the fight!
Has anyone considered starting a new industry around anti-spy devices that babble nonsense to your other spy devices? Or is there perhaps a script on github for this yet?
If you feel like you need an assistant, A better solution might be something like Mycroft https://mycroft.ai
Deploying Predator drones that can detect a face at 25kft from Afghanistan on US soil, without any meaningful regulation or political debate, is pretty terrifying.
And drone usage is going to make it even worse. People isn't exposed anymore to the effects of being at war, so that the stronger side has no incentive to stop fighting. In the past people hated the war because of the high risk that loved ones could return in a coffin; nowadays only the enemies die, and at a convenient distance, so brainwashed masses don't develop hostility to the war but rather keep hating an enemy they have never met just because the TV says so. That's the first step to an endless state of war which is the best customer the weapon industry could dream about.
We're led to believe that there is some wall of separation between these two, and the rapidity of adoption of this tech for domestic purposes reminds us quite clearly that that isn't so.
Bend over for your ritual digital pat-down. Good citizen.
My point is not that Americans being surveilled is worse than Afghans being killed. It's that the disregard for the norms of liberal democracies (generally accepted during wars) seems to be bleeding into civilian life, and I worry that it points to an increasing authoritarian tendency in Western governments.
It's terrifying to me in the same way that it's terrifying to see policemen dressed up as soldiers during civil unrest, waving assault rifles around and barking commands like they're invading their own country.
James Madison, Constitutional Convention of 1787
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_629.asp
I assume the manufacturers try to control that information but someone has likely written a paper on it (I just can't find it).