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Ask HN: Is it possible to raise money without a working prototype?

9 points by code177 ↗ HN
Hi HN! I'm between a bit of a rock and a hard place - in order to create a sufficiently working prototype I would need to dedicate about a thousand hours of time. Unfortunately that's very difficult with a pre-existing full time job.

18 comments

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markstansbury
I'm no expert, but I say: Sure! Mock something up and give it a shot. Sell investors on the idea and the market, the pain and the cure. Convince them that you're the guy or team to make it happen.

Anyway, if you had the thing built you wouldn't need money, now would you?

code177
That's exactly my quandry - it's a bit of a catch22.
replicatorblog
Work 4 hrs. a night and 20 hrs a weekend on it for 6 months while keeping your job. It would be a big time sacrifice, but so would actually starting something with seed money.
byoung2
1000 hours is about 3-5 months, so you're probably looking at $15-30k of seed money to support you while you get your prototype built. If you keep your expenses low, that should be plenty of money. If your idea is good enough and your team is strong, you should have a good chance at getting the seed money to start. That's the idea behind programs like YC.
code177
Unfortunately I already have an apartment to pay for, and no guarantee that if I left my job for 3-6 months I'd be able to get it back. Definitely worth thinking about though!
CyberFonic
Real artists ship! Being an entrepreneur means having a burning desire to succeed.

The Vikings used to burn their boats so that they had to succeed!

Reads like you're already too comfortable where you are to take the plunge. If you can't work on your project part-time, then why not do some other part-time work, save the money and then Do It!.

answerly
The answer probably depends on how much money you are trying to raise and from what type of investors.

If you need thousands to tens of thousands of dollars and have a rich uncle then the answer is probably yes.

If you need hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars and you want to raise from professional startup investors then the answer is probably no (Chris Sacca from Lowercase Capital says something like, "I invest in URLs not business plans").

There are exceptions of course.

pg
Sure: http://ycombinator.com/apply.html
code177
Thanks PG. I have previously considered YC, unfortunately the cost of living far exceeds the amount of capital YC could provide initially.

Looking around the industry lately it seems that you can't do a startup unless you're fresh out of college with not a care in the world.

On the other hand, if you actually have industry experience (even if you are under 30), you can't "drop out" of "real life" because of implicit responsibilities (socially - such as dependents, and financially - such as rent/bills).

pg
We don't expect to supply all the capital you'll ever need. The great majority of the startups we fund are able to raise more by the end of the 3 months.

Off the top of my head I think only 4 out of 36 startups in the current batch are fresh out of college.

code177
Interesting - I wasn't aware of that, a good bit of info to know.

Presumably YC only works for US companies, as people from outside the US (Canada, for example) wouldn't have the permission to work in the US for the three months?

nl
YC has plenty of people from outside the US.
JesseAldridge
Wtf kind of prototype takes 1000 hours?

Maybe you should think about what you could do if you only had 100.

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earle
I think there's a pretty big disconnect between your version of "working prototype" and what is actually necessary.

If your goal is to get some seed money, to build a "prototype" to raise money, then the net requirement isn't a full functional app, but just enough to get the point across in an elegant enough way to secure additional financing.

This could be as simple as a sketch on a napkin, and as complex as a full functional website with an e-commerce component.

As long as you can effectively deliver the experience of what it is you need money to build, then your medium for doing so isn't as important as getting the point across.

hajiss
one of the important things about start up is that you have a well documented starting to crawl before you walk is a well established tried and true method; My advice is use about 160 hrs for a good prototype. Use that to test if the idea has stickiness in the first place before you invest 1000 hrs.
kqueue
From experience, my rule of thumb is to select projects that takes around one month to finish (give or take).

Any longer project will be a challenge to finish because you'll lose motivation (for various reasons).

Launching quickly will give you a lot of insight on whether you are on the right track or not. And if you are, this will motivate you to start improving what you have built and probably rewrite it sometime later.

Shrink your idea.