This is a great idea, but this is far too vague. Very clear cut terms would be necessary for this to have teeth. For instance something like, data collection on individuals must have a clear purpose, the subject of collection must be clearly presented with that knowledge, and they must derive a benefit directly connected with the item in question.
Unfortunately, as alluded to in the README, even a strong statement would have very little in terms of bite unless there is some kind of specific force backing it up. Clearly, cultural pressure is currently insufficient or this wouldn't be needed. Instead, I advise building an organization around developer ethics that can pressure decision makers. Such an organization can democratically ratify a code of ethics, collect signatures, and provide financial support for individuals that resist unethical demands and face retaliation.
It must be vague to deal with unforeseen challenges of the future, just like the Hippocratic oath. A lot of the difficulties we encounter today had no analog 30 years ago for most programmers, and who knows what quandaries will arise in the next 30?
You're right that changes are unforeseen, but the Hippocratic oath, so far as I know, is not enforceable. It's a set of principles that are open to interpretation. What exactly does "First, do no harm?" mean? An injection of life-saving medicine breaks the skin.
I think a more robust arrangement is a living organization. Only people can be flexible and adapt to changing circumstances with critical thought. By debating and voting, such an organization can adopt revisions to its ethics statement.
As someone that live more or less following that code, i am employed and my employer is really happy with me.
And the day i leave, i know i will have multiple offers, because people know me and want to work with me.
I am sad that you think that this is the state of business. It is not. And that is nice because otherwise i would be really sad.
I hope you do not have to do bad things at yoir current work, but if you or any reader feel trapped, maybe we should discuss how to help you move to a situation where you can afford this kind of oath ?
Your private code, expressed verbally on a situational basis face to face, is very different from a public declaration that obviously threatens unethical business practices, of which many are currently employed in the ordinary course of business.
>I will only undertake honest and moral work. I will stand firm against any requirement that exploits or harms people
This one should probably softened up into a "for the greater good" variant. I understand "do not harm" is a good starting point, but sometimes harm becomes necessary.
A surgeon will have to cut open the patient, harming them, to help them in the end.
In the same manner, a programmer may find it necessary to write code that harms a few people in order to help a whole lot more people. An example could be that a business is exploiting people and a programmer will have to harm their business and harm the people working there by writing an alternative to the businesses product.
Temporary or short-term harm will become necessary to enable a programmer to ensure reduction or larger or long-term harm.
YMMV, but this doesn't sound good to me. Outside the US especially, pride is not necessarily seen as a good thing. I work hard and and try to produce the best work I can, and to be pleased with it afterwards. All the same I'd hate to be accused of pride.
(I recognise that there's more than one interpretation of the word, and that e.g. Wikipedia [0] distinguishes between good and bad pride. I mean here that having done good work, owning nice things, or living in a nice place doesn't make me a better person than anyone else. I think self-worth is better found in other things, but reasonable people will certainly differ.)
“Pride should be reserved for something you achieve or obtain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill... it's a fscking genetic accident. You wouldn't say I'm proud to be 5'11"; I'm proud to have a pre-disposition for colon cancer.”
> 8. I will be diligent and take pride in my work.
Hacking something together for some reason and later admitting it was garbage should be some grand violation of an oath. certainly not on par with the other things that you pledged to
I am hired because I know what I am doing, not because I will do whatever I am told is a good idea. This might cost me bonuses, raises, promotions, and may even label me as "undesirable" by places I don't want to work at anyway, but I don't care. I will not compromise my own principles and judgement without putting up a fight. Of course, I won't always win, and I will sometimes be forced to do things I don't agree with, but if I am my objections will be known, and if I am shown to be right and problems later develop, I will shout "I told you so!" repeatedly, laugh hysterically, and do a small dance or jig as appropriate to my heritage.
There was a similar attempt to make an oath for the broader "computing professional" [1]. Not sure how much it has caught on, and I'm not sure how well this will catch on either without the backing of some major organization.
14 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 41.9 ms ] threadUnfortunately, as alluded to in the README, even a strong statement would have very little in terms of bite unless there is some kind of specific force backing it up. Clearly, cultural pressure is currently insufficient or this wouldn't be needed. Instead, I advise building an organization around developer ethics that can pressure decision makers. Such an organization can democratically ratify a code of ethics, collect signatures, and provide financial support for individuals that resist unethical demands and face retaliation.
I think a more robust arrangement is a living organization. Only people can be flexible and adapt to changing circumstances with critical thought. By debating and voting, such an organization can adopt revisions to its ethics statement.
And the day i leave, i know i will have multiple offers, because people know me and want to work with me.
I am sad that you think that this is the state of business. It is not. And that is nice because otherwise i would be really sad.
I hope you do not have to do bad things at yoir current work, but if you or any reader feel trapped, maybe we should discuss how to help you move to a situation where you can afford this kind of oath ?
This one should probably softened up into a "for the greater good" variant. I understand "do not harm" is a good starting point, but sometimes harm becomes necessary.
A surgeon will have to cut open the patient, harming them, to help them in the end.
In the same manner, a programmer may find it necessary to write code that harms a few people in order to help a whole lot more people. An example could be that a business is exploiting people and a programmer will have to harm their business and harm the people working there by writing an alternative to the businesses product.
Temporary or short-term harm will become necessary to enable a programmer to ensure reduction or larger or long-term harm.
https://www.acm.org/about-acm/acm-code-of-ethics-and-profess...
https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html
YMMV, but this doesn't sound good to me. Outside the US especially, pride is not necessarily seen as a good thing. I work hard and and try to produce the best work I can, and to be pleased with it afterwards. All the same I'd hate to be accused of pride.
(I recognise that there's more than one interpretation of the word, and that e.g. Wikipedia [0] distinguishes between good and bad pride. I mean here that having done good work, owning nice things, or living in a nice place doesn't make me a better person than anyone else. I think self-worth is better found in other things, but reasonable people will certainly differ.)
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride
― George Carlin
Hacking something together for some reason and later admitting it was garbage should be some grand violation of an oath. certainly not on par with the other things that you pledged to
I am hired because I know what I am doing, not because I will do whatever I am told is a good idea. This might cost me bonuses, raises, promotions, and may even label me as "undesirable" by places I don't want to work at anyway, but I don't care. I will not compromise my own principles and judgement without putting up a fight. Of course, I won't always win, and I will sometimes be forced to do things I don't agree with, but if I am my objections will be known, and if I am shown to be right and problems later develop, I will shout "I told you so!" repeatedly, laugh hysterically, and do a small dance or jig as appropriate to my heritage.
Original: alt.sysadmin.recovery
[1] http://pledge-of-the-computing-professional.org/home-page/th...