Instead of merely airing the bed each morning I run a dehumidifer. Hopefully this will reduce mould & mites. Now HN can tell me why my personal mattress hack is a bad idea.
At last I have an excuse for not making the bed in the morning. ;-)
When my kids were tots and we took them to day care, the day care center had a collection of little beds for naps, which were some kind of durable fabric mesh stretched over a frame. I've often wondered how that would work as a general purpose mattress for adults, with little chance of festering over time.
As far as I know, any kind of hammock or suspension bed will ultimately suffer from uneven pressure points. Unless the frame is filled in, in the middle, which would make it a normal mattress, then your weight is going to be pushing back on you mostly laterally via the perimeter where the attachment of the mesh happens. Sleeping surfaces are meant to support the body from the bottom in an even fashion in order to minimize pressure points.
This is why memory foam is so effective - instead of having 1024 springs, add more add more!!! - we just get a porous composite material with 1000000 tiny nooks which basically act as springs. Latex on the other hand, if not in foam form, can be solid, and gains its "spring" properties just from its tensile chemistry alone. No nooks needed. But latex foam is sold..which is a marriage of the two ideas.
In any case, hammocks aren't gonna hurt you from sleeping on em occasionally, especially since the pressure points will mostly be your back as hammocks are often hung loosely, so that the attachment points can be much much higher than your actual body, therefore moving most of the force to a vertical pressure, instead of that lateral pressure we talked about.
They send someone to pick it up. You don't have to get it back in the box. With most of them you get 100 days to try it out (some are up to 365 days). If you don't like it, you call them and they come and get it.
I don't know if this has any impact, but thinking about it, a mattress is a possession that can't be easily transported in a car, or even, by someone who doesn't have a car. I imagine that as people become more mobile and choose to have fewer possessions, it might be easier to simply abandon their mattress and have a new one shipped to their new location.
Vacuum. Thick plastic wrap and then hook up a vacuum pump to the interior and watch the atmosphere do the heavy work for you. Then you can roll up the package.
If you look at the video linked elsewhere you'll see they use a giant press to compress the mattress between two sheets of foil and then they heat seal the ends. After releasing the press it all stays nicely flat because of the same reason: there is no air in the mattress and no way for air to get into the mattress.
I figure they do it that way because it is much faster than just letting the vacuum do the work which for a production facility is a must. But when you have a small budget and more time then using the vacuum directly is the best way to go.
There is an interesting branch of manufacturing related to this trick:
In addition, due to risk of bed bugs/contaminants and the fact that people are very particular about the comfort level of a mattress, the re-sell market for mattress is really unlike other pieces of furniture. Whenever I've moved, I've really only been able to sell mattresses to people who trust me because I can vouch for living in bed bug free zone. Otherwise, I've just had to trash it because as you mentioned, it's way too cumbersome to transport.
That's kind of why certain furniture brands catered to urban markets (smaller dwelling) tend to make some of furniture able to be dis-assembled: much easier for moving around.
I used to worry about this, but I've got enough furniture and accumulated stuff that the size of my car is irrelevant for moving house. My bed frame alone is too big. Hiring a transit van for a couple of days is about $50 and gives you over 2m of room inside.
Pretty much as soon as you buy a bed, your car is too small. And if you're at the level of self sufficiency where you own a bed, you probably own other things like chairs, tables and chests of drawers.
Reminds me of something called "Made for Outlet." Popular brands license their logos to third parties who make low quality goods. It has the label and the store has the name, but it's cheap junk worth a fraction of the price they're selling it for.
With globalization things are getting really weird in the retail space. For example, snap-on (a super premium tool maker) used to make wrenches for Lowes. They were nearly identical: http://www.snapon-bluepoint.com.sg/
Just a few days ago, AVE did a few videos showing evidence that there may be a single supplier for some new airguns that are on the market. Thing is, these air guns range in price from less than $100 (harbor freight) to well over $500 (premium brand). He tested a Husky brand that was much more expensive than the HF one and found it to likely be worse than the cheap one. He had a good theory in the video that no one can beat manufacturing overseas now days for quality or price. So everyone just outsources it and is hoping no one notices.
I was just checking out the harbor freight air nailers. The main concern I had was for the triggers, the plastic seemed really thin and poorly connected. I'll have to check out this video
This is just for this specific impact wrench. HF quality can vary a lot, but where as it used to be just crap and worse crap, there are a few very specific instances now where they actually have some gems. This impact wrench appears to be one minus some very slight concerns.
Somewhat ironic that the article comments about MemoryFoamTalk not disclosing comissions from Nectar and then provides an (undisclosed) affiliate link.
I have a Leesa as it was the only mattress (at the time) which fit my bed properly. The fact that all these companies can offer 100-365 day trials does hint at how stupidly large the margins are.
I have a Leesa and liked it so much that I bought 2 more for the rest of my beds.
It feels great for me, I like a firmer mattress, but it’s not too firm.
Here are the highlights:
1. Half the price of the equivalent at Sleep Country
2. Didn’t have to deal with mattress sales people. Margins are so high there is usually a negotiation. Given the varying types of materials, I don’t really know how to price and why I should bother knowing the ins and outs of mattresses. I don’t like the upsells. Makes it feel like going to a car dealership.
3. Shipped and got delivered fairly fast.
Cons:
1. Buying it sight unseen can be unnerving, especially for a $1,000 purchase. I guess that’s why they have the generous return policy.
2. Differentiation. I don’t know how Casper is different from Leesa. I went on a review site and trusted it, I guess, but even then, they seemed to be made the same way more or less.
I’ve had two Leesas. One with my ex and now at my new place (a year old). Both were extremely comfortable and fit my sleep needs. The first was a risk, the second was an obvious choice.
I think this might be one of the big 'brand advantages' of the mattress in a box companies; because most people feel uneasy about the return process, and because of that, if they like the mattress, they are more likely to buy more of the same than to roll the dice again.
I will ride and/or die with Xtreme Comforts' shredded foam pillows. They're like fifty bucks, a little more for a bigger one. My girlfriend hates them--which is fine, because it means I get two. The bed's going to look funny when we move in together: two enormous pillows on my side, two puny flat ones on hers.
Heh I have the "as seen on TV" bamboo pillow as well that I bought on some insane sale somewhere. i think it was $12 ish for the pillow.
I like it quite a bit. When I was getting shipped around on a plane every week for work, the hotel super soft pillows really didn't stack up. You get used to having something that fully molds to your head.
Pretty good, I've not had any real problems with it. I tried a Casper before and liked that too. I don't have a problem with the softness, it's actually harder than I expected.
Is it better than all the other companies? It's still very difficult to tell without trying them side by side. When I bought it there weren't that many offerings in the UK - I think it was only Leesa, Casper and Simba.
One concern is that there's no way of easily removing the cover, and all it'll take is one glass of wine to ruin it. So while it looks great in the photos, really you'll want to put some kind of protector on it.
I also tried one of Casper's pillows, which was great until it started bunching like crazy and is now useless. Don't waste your money on the expensive upsell 'accessories'.
We had a Leesa but returned it because it was too soft. Got a Helix mattress instead (lots of options for firmness etc.), which has been pretty good for about 2 years.
The "return" for the Leesa was a disposal truck from 1-800-Got-Junk. It already had another Leesa mattress on it from that morning. Used mattresses can't really be resold; I hope they're at least somewhat recyclable.
Depends on the state. Reusing mattresses is not permitted in California, unless the mattress has undergone a sanitization process that often costs as much as the mattress is worth.
Oh yeah, so concerned, especially with all that urban sprawl and complete lack of care or concern to reduce traffic or increase public transit so it takes less cars off the road, reduce pollution and increase air quality and reduce traffic deaths. Or how about affordable housing? Housing is so expensive, that most migrant workers (the backbone of California's economy) have to eat Fast Food every day because it's cheaper. Concerned about their health and safety? Didn't think so.
Concerned with paying lip service to health and safety (and maybe create an extra regulator job or two)? Sure. But at some point, labeling everything as cancer causing takes away any meaning what so ever. I think California labels something every week as cancer causing. It's just become noise at this point. Here's the latest now for ya: Coffee https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/03/29/coffee-cance...
I think that if I were to become homeless tomorrow I would prefer to sleep on an almost new mattress than on a new cot. This is my problem with California- let people decide for themselves what they want. I don’t need a government telling me what to do.
Certainly. But the fact that California is such a statistical outlyer with the number of laws but does not show a significant increase in the quality of life (in fact it's last by most measures), makes me think something else is at play. Like market manipulation, or theatrics, or both.
What's the kinkiest sex you can think of? Because if it what you're thinking of doesn't soak/soil the sheets and mattress, then you're not thinking dirty enough. Hotels will at least toss the mattress and bill the customer under those circumstances.
I think the reason the 100+ day trials are successful for the companies is that it's a huge pain to box up and ship back a mattress. Also most people don't have room to hold onto the old mattress for several months while they try out the new one on trial. I imagine a lot of people therefore keep 'good enough' mattresses vs sending them back.
>I think the reason the 100+ day trials are successful for the companies is that it's a huge pain to box up and ship back a mattress.
I don't think they ask you to ship it back; I think they contract with some local charity to come pick up the mattress, or just toss it and write off the loss.
The big shipping problem is in the warranty (i.e. if you find a defect after the 100 day (or whatever) trial period) - you generally have to pay return shipping to make a warranty claim, and it costs somewhere between $400 - $800 to ship a queen mattress across the country. [1] Even shipping to the next state can cost $100 - $200.
And assuming they agree that it deserves a replacement, you have to pay shipping costs for them to ship the replacement.
So.... you can either pay $500 to ship an $800 mattress back to the factory and hope that they agree that it's defective enough to deserve a warranty replacement.... or you can just buy a new mattress.
Makes the 10 year warranty pretty meaningless if you pay more in shipping costs to make a claim than the mattress is worth.
"Purple will cover the shipping or pickup charges for returns and exchanges, except when there are extenuating circumstances. You will be informed beforehand if extra charges will apply."
which is consistent with what I was saying, which is that you don't have to pay return shipping.
But I think you are right that shipping costs dominate; from what I hear, the reputable brands will give you a refund and send someone local to haul off the mattress for free.
That's only during their initial 100 day refund period ("comfort trial", etc) -- if a year later you find that the mattress has developed a human sized permanent depression, then you pay for return shipping yourself as well as the costs of shipping a replacement (or repaired) mattress back to you.
From their warranty page:
Any to-or-from transportation handling and costs and inspection costs associated with repairs or replacements are the responsibility of purchaser
So basically, don't count on that 10 year warranty for any of these mattresses unless you can truck it to the factory yourself.
> if a year later you find that the mattress has developed a human sized permanent depression //
Minimum warranty period in EU is 2 years.
Under the UK Sale of Goods Act products have to be free from defect, there's no official time limit, it's based on expectations in part. A mattress should last much longer, so that would be a defect in manufacturing and the _seller_ has to make good (repair or replace at their cost).
I had the same experience with a $700 Tuft and Needle purchased through Amazon, though I actually found it to be a bit of a hassle. Ultimately I was able to sell it for ~$100, but it took me a month—I'd have preferred if they just arranged someone to take it immediately.
We bought a Tuft and Needle mattress three years ago, and it's been fantastic. A few other friends have bought mattresses online and all been very happy.
If it's all a marketing ploy, as the article implies, then there's a lot of happy people benefiting. ;)
If it's a marketing ploy, then traditional brick and mortar mattress companies were also marketing ploys (which they may have been!!). In either case I agree, consumers are pretty happy now.
Notably, mattress stores participate in the classic tactic of price inflation, as well as taking the same model of mattress and giving it a different name, making it much more difficult to comparison shop:
>For example, the popular Simmons Beautyrest line has different brand names at different stores. The "Beautyrest Recharge Allie" at Macy's is called the "Beautyrest Recharge Devonwood Luxury" at Sears, the "Recharge Signature Select Hartfield" at Mattress Firm, and the "Beautyrest Recharge Lyric Luxury" at US-Mattress.com. If customers don't realize these are names for the same mattress, it's harder for them to bargain effectively.
Then again, maybe these online mattress companies are doing the same thing too, just one step removed. At least there's no pushy sales staff when I order a bed in a box.
Of course it's a marketing ploy! Mattresses are a great example of an area where the marketing ploys are really an inescapable part of the perception of value. If you think you're buying a great, innovative mattress design, you'll probably continue to believe that unless it's quite bad.
They've just switched us from feeling like we can pick the right mattress through trying a dozen in a store to reading online reviews. Both are biased, but everyone needs some way to feel confident about a big purchase.
We were certain we had split opinions on a softer and a firmer mattress in the store. We bought one for the master and one for the guest room just in case we changed our minds.
I think we switched them at least once, but honestly can't remember how many times, and can no longer tell which one I "really" like.
Through this process I learned... I don't actually have mattress preferences, short of it not being a bunch of rocks.
I'm sure some people actually have preferences, but I wonder if this is an area, like vodka, where you can make people feel strongly like they have preferences between two things that are barely distinct, if at all.
The question is, how are all of those 'happy people' benefiting? Could you not have purchased a mattress from a brick and mortar store? It seems it would be relevant to cite the advantages.
I can't help but feel like the entire podcasting industry was funded by businesses that are 'cutting out the middleman' as if this is a novel concept. Frankly, the mattress-in-a-box companies are nowhere near the worst offenders in this regard!
Ouch. Maybe more people fall for the ultra-premium than I thought. The total cost of our mom-and-pop mattress store 'big name' mattress was half that difference you cite. I think I'd have a hard time spending way more than we spent and just HOPING I like the way it feels when it arrives.
I can definitely see the value of the ability for customers to actually REVIEW the options, though.
In addition to the article's points, it seems to me that the experience of dealing with aggressive/manipulative salespeople in a "classic" retail mattress store cannot be compared to the feeling that I get from most online stores.
Questions on my budget, spending time to show me the mattresses (and then making me feel guilty that they spent all of this time on me), etc. Offering me a "last minute" deal once they saw that I was leaving. It was dreadful.
In this regard, IKEA can be a good compromise on price, selection, and their employees' relaxed, non-pushy demeanour. You get to try the mattresses and no one (except other customers) will watch over you.
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Contradicting all of my points above, I do want to say that investing in a Tempur-Pedic was a life changing decision. I definitely spend a more "rewarding" time sleeping in it.
(((obviously, but just in case someone is wondering, I'm not astroturfing for IKEA or Tempur. Just a satisfied customer...)))
I second that. I recently bought a king size tempur, upgrading from my queen size (which got moved to my spare room). It's not just comfortable - it's next level. I slept on a Casper at an airbnb for a full month this past summer - it's not bad but it isn't tempurpedic.
Ps, check my past comments - I am not a shill, just someone who digs tempurpedic.
Ditto. My tempurpedic cost a fairly ridiculous amount. I would pay it again in a heartbeat if my mattress caught on fire. The best mattress I’ve ever slept on by a very large margin.
These recommendations seem wholly legitimate. Funny thing is, though, the only person I know well who owned one (my brother-in-law) liked it but said it was simply too damn hot, which I've since heard others discuss as well. They had to return theirs, just couldn't live with it. I don't think of a normal mattress as providing ventilation, but I guess it does, at least somewhat -- less thermal mass, at least.
This is a problem with memory foam mattresses in general, they trap too much heat. It's not too bad if you live in a cold climate, but I live in a hot climate and during the summers it got to be too much.
Gel memory foam is the nice compromise. You get the memory foam but with a gel topper. It's noticeably cooler and a bit firmer than typical memory foam. We got one and have since moved the regular memory foam into the guest room.
I got this one[0] from WalMart because I think once you get above $500 for a mattress you see a cliff of diminishing returns in quality. I’m quite happy with it.
It’s a common issue with memory foam, and especially closed cell foam. Some of the foam mattresses on the market now use a gel or gel-infused layer to take advantage of phase shifts, while others use a cooling layer with air channels above the memory foam.
I switched from a memory foam mattress to the Purple specifically because of the heat issue.
I’ve never had that issue personally. Even before I had air conditioning, this wasn’t an issue for me in the summer. However, I don’t doubt that a memory foam mattress is warmer than a traditional mattress so I can totally understand that this could be a factor for others. I wonder if other foam mattresses are any different in this respect.
On the topic of thermal mass, more thermal mass would actually keep you cooler longer, because it would take longer to saturate the mattress with heat. Ventilation is probably a much more significant issue than thermal mass though.
I sleep on a Tempur-pedic and I don't like it. I turn around at night and the mattress resists that, giving me neck pain since I have to arch even more in the turn to compensate. And it's not so great for sleeping face down, because of the way I sink in. I rarely wake up without some kind of neck or shoulder pain.
I should replace it with something else, but I'm far from sure I can find something.
And once someone figured out that you can roll and vacuum seal a mattress and ship UPS - lots of online stores.
Writing this while laying on an Avacado latex mattress.... HATED every second of mattress store nonsense... oh you’re having a sale just today!? My goodness how lucky! :/
Seems like part of what this article is discussing is the emerging 'Shopify effect'. The barriers to entry for starting an online brand-based business have plummetted to the point where even people with little means financially and no means technically can still set up a business for a fraction of what it cost in the 20th century. I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the middle of a Cambrian explosion-esque period for consumer-based brands.
And not just US based brands trying to all sell the same products. I have a "joyroom design" phone charging case, shamo's phone case, yivvin wireless keyboard, powerextra camera flash, godox battery charger, auxia ring light, and all other manner of cheap Chinese whitelabel brands that didn't even take the time to consult an English speaker before coming up with a name.
And all of these products have at least 20 to 30 or more other listings of the exact same product with some other made up "brand name" on it.
Many of those shops won't make much profit. Shipping companies are probably the only ones profiting (if not shipped via national mail services). Most of the value will flow to the customer as prices are now much lower.
Brands, sure, but it's a side effect of nobody actually making anything anymore. The manufacturer or distributor, of which there are certainly many fewer than mattress brands, could steal huge hunks of the entire market just by deciding to do so. I'm not sure all of these are positive developments.
I have to wonder if the low barrier to entry takes Hotelling's Law and explodes it into high gear. Like, how many actually-different mattress design patterns and materials are there anyway?
It will turn into what eBay turned into: Cheap, misrepresented crap. Web design used to be a reliable way of judging a stores product quality, but less and less every day.
So happy to have a real term for this! I've always just said "A known metric is a gamed metric". Everything from "if you can't touch your toes you're unhealthy" to "price per square foot maximizing" in real estate... once a group has consolidated on a metric and let that metric be known, that metric is useless.
Cheap memory foam toppers have effectively made the quality of the mattress irrelevant to me. I've been sleeping great on a compressed Ikea mattress with a foam topper. In fact the entire bed setup was boxed up and taken to my home in a car. I've spent the night at really nice guest rooms/hotels, and I don't prefer them over my setup.
I would much rather re-buy my setup again every time I move, than spend a ton of money on a "proper" mattress and deal with moving it/dealing with movers — for now, at least.
I did something similar in college. Bought an airbed and memory foam topper both from Amazon, transported them inside my Honda when I had to move out of state for internships. It was damn comfortable. Now I have a Tuft & Needle.
Yea--the cheap foam toppers saved me so much money/aggravation.
My dad once bought a $5000 mattress. He literally died in it complaining about the purchase.
He spent his adult life priding himself on not being a fool with his money. He did a good job doing the opposite of what companies wanted, but he slipped up on the mattress.
(I probally shouldn't have mentioned my dad's death. We had a twisted relationship. He was a good guy deep down, but the alcohol affected his personality, and not in a good way.)
If I was forced to open a retail brick and mortar store; it would be a toss up between mattresses, couches, or a thrift store.
Retail mattress shopping is insane. I went to nordstrom/macys to look at mattresses and the foam ones were retailing for like 3,000$ dollars. Checked out Amazon and found some for 1/10th the price and decided it was easily worth the gamble.
2 years later and I have no complaints with my 300$ Amazon foam mattress.
"Since Casper launched its “mattress in a box” concept in 2014, digital-savvy entrepreneurs have been launching new mattress brands online seemingly every week."
Casper was not the first mattress in a box online company. But Casper definitely is the first company to get the marketing right.
Given how they sued people who gave bad reviews to their products, I think that is more than enough reason to never buy from them, especially sight unseen.
I’m pretty sure that at the time, Tuft and Needle was the main name in the game, and I definitely hadn’t heard of Casper at that point, so there seems to be a bit of revisionist history attributing the rise of these mattresses to Casper? I don’t know.
Revisionist is putting it lightly. Casper sued the largest online mattress review site after it refused to favor its brands, and forced it to sell itself. The entire saga has more twists than a G.R.R. Martin novel. https://www.fastcompany.com/3065928/sleepopolis-casper-blogg...
We are probably not far from needing a new mattress ourselves and I’ve been looking at all these companies. Minus Purple, most of them seem fairly similar within a degrees of each other.
Has anyone who wasn’t a fan of memory foam mattresses been swayed by any of these companies? We live in the south and haven’t liked the few we’ve tried for them sleeping hot and general feel. Kind of wish I could try before I buy.
I bought a Casper about a year ago after having a standard spring mattress for 10 years prior. I’ve found it very comfortable from day one. I also tend to sleep hot and so was concerned about reports of memory foaming feeling warmer ... hasn’t been an issue for me. I’ve had guests on it as well and people my age and size (late 30’s, average build) seem to find it comfortable.
To be clear: I’m sure I could find a nicer mattress, but this was easy and represents a good value.
I highly recommend looking into Spindle Mattress. It's all latex and wool/cotton and sleeps a lot cooler than memory foam. You sort of put it together yourself (i.e. Put three thick sections of latex in a zippered cover) but this also also allows for a bit of adjustment (reorganize the layers which come in various finesses). The whole thing weighs a ton and ships in three separate boxes.
One of the great things about online mattresses is having reviews. The traditional store all had unique names/codes for their mattresses so you can't compare price or get any reasonable volume of reviews for a mattress. I love how the internet levels the playing field on things like this.
IMO it looks like the mattress business is 99% marketing.
It is a rectangle of foams, I would love it if companies stopped pretending that they spent thousand of man hours improving it while they all come from the same factory (I am not even exaggerating much here :/ ).
I moved to the US recently and was shocked by how big the mattress business is here and how costly these are.
"Reviews" are useless, in fact, they are worse than useless, they are just another form of spam. Those reviewers and bloggers make their living on commission, thus the incentives are not aligned. You can find positive reviews of pyramid schemes and malware.
Mattresses are in a way kinda interchangeable. Sure there's different quality and a well worn mattress will be different from a new one, but, in general, you probably aren't going to sleep differently on a different brand of a similar quality mattress.
About 6 years ago I read that people who bought their mattress from the internet we're just as satisfied with their purchase as people who tried them out in the store beforehand.
So stupid question. Are mattresses in a box actually viable? What changed in recent years that make it work? I assumed you'd just end up with a mattress with messed up springs.
It's a rare purchase with high profit margins and limited differentiation between brands. In other words, whatever store/vendor you go to first has a great shot at getting your business, and you'll totally forget about them by the time you next need a mattress years later.
Same reason you hear so many car dealership and insurance ads.
As far as I'm concerned, that whole market still needs some newcomers (also called "disruption").
this whole mattress in a box segment is essentially 70% marketing and 30% RD//Production//Shipping. Those companies price around 1000$ for a mattress, but I highly doubt the production (and shipping) is anything more than 150$.
I'm happy there is an alternative to the older shaddy company that cornered that market (sleeptrain and all of those), but it's still too much marketing, too little value for a fairly simple product!
I was in the market for a mattress, went to a big store which exclusively sells mattress, tried a 4000 AUD mattress and 1000 AUD mattress, they felt the same.
Finally went to Ikea and tried a 200 AUD mattress, that felt good too so got that.
All the mattress were medium firm and I could not figure out any difference with all three of them with the 20 second demo.
I own a Hästens bed, which is supposedly among the best box springs (with a horsehair topper) you can buy. I also own a latex mattress from IKEA, made by a really famous latex manufacturer, which has been discontinued to sell inferior options.
These are good, but in my case they couldn't beat a setup that is an order of magnitude cheaper, simpler and better. A simple custom-made japanese shikibuton, filled with felted wool panels and a buckwheat pillow. I put this on a modular set of bed slates to avoid insects, get better airing and avoid cold floors.
I treated a few years of my life as an experiment to improve my sleep. I bought a Hästens and that latex IKEA mattress. I used them for 3 years, switching back and forth every 6 months. Then I made this custom shikibuton, and after a few months I never looked back.
There is some literature which explains how we evolved sleeping in relatively firm setups. Big, expensive and mushy mattresses tend to be a bit too soft and you end up developing neck aches as I did. A better option is just some slightly flexible wood base, or a tatami, and some thin cushion. In fact, another less unconventional setup I like is a horsehair topper, like one of those from Hästens, on top of some wooden base.
My shikibuton is really cheap. It's washable! I can open my futon, put felted wool panels in the washing machine and it's dry in a day. It's very comfortable. It's ended up my perennial neck issues. It's convenient, I can transport the whole system in my tiny car.
A simpler, non-washable alternative is to have a big cover filled up with buckwheat hulls. Every 6 months, compost hulls, buy new ones, and wash cover. Every month, empty hulls into a bag and wash cover.
I don't understand why this alternative is not more popular in the West.
My latex foam mattress has a 25 year full warranty. If it sags or cimpresses more than 1 inch, I can have it replaced. 25 year warranties aren't out if the ordinary now.
You don't need to do it that frequently if you don't want to!
Buckwheat hulls can easily last 5 years without maintenance. Still, I prefer the wool alternative, which again doesn't need to be cleaned often or at all, as most people do with their regular mattresses.
The fact that stuff is washable is an advantage for me, because I'm a bit allergic, and regular mattresses don't have a simple way to be deeply cleaned. The best thing you can do so far is to vacuum them with a Dyson for mattresses.
>A simple custom-made japanese shikibuton, filled with felted wool panels and a buckwheat pillow. I put this on a modular set of bed slates to avoid insects, get better airing and avoid cold floors
Can you explain your "bed slates" further? All I want is a simple raised wooden platform, and they're absurdly expensive. Bed frames in general seem like a totally messes up market; Ikea's fucking slats could drive a man to murder, and anything else is overpriced or cheap and overdesigned
At some point im going to be forced to build the damn thing myself if the market is going to refuse to sell anything sensible
The idea is simple, just some blocks you connect (2 or 4) and some legs, so it's easy to ship and transport. The design above is good, but IMHO it's better to have some flexible wood. Especially if you are a side sleeper.
You can usually buy decent ones in the US or UK for $150 if you look for futon platforms. If you want some flexibility but you don't want to go the custom route, buy a tatami raised platform and buy a tatami.
Im lazy, don't actually know what I'm doing, and the whole thing seems like a lot of trouble to setup (don't have a decent way to move the wood, or convenient/immediate access to tooling, etc).
I'll beat the price at the cost of time and effort (and probably some favors), and I'm not sure carpentry interests me enough for the learning to have much value. So its a last resort, if I can find nothing decent, and decently priced.
You might be surprised at how fun and rewarding it is to make some simple things by cutting wood. Just in case you can't find what you're looking for on the market, a few ideas:
A. Put a listing on Craigslist asking someone to build you a simple platform. Say that you'll pay for the materials, and get them to quote a price for the labor. Maybe ask them to deliver it, as well.
2. Find a local maker space. They likely have the tools you'd need. You can rent a pickup truck from a local U-Haul or Home Depot usually. Cutting wood is pretty much the easiest thing you could learn to do in an afternoon. Find out the dimensions of your desired mattress, and for a platform bed, you'll be pretty okay if you play it safe and make your platform 4 inches wider & longer than your mattress (2in on each side of the mattress). Pick up some plywood to go over the frame if you don't want to cut 20 slats--you could, say, make a frame out of just 8 boards, and then screw plywood to the top of it. For the legs, you don't need anything other than, say, a 4" high simple wooden furniture leg[0] to bolt to the platform itself. Then you just bolt/screw it all together.
D. If you really don't want to spend an afternoon of your life cutting some wood, buy a decent boxspring with a wooden frame, then go to Home Depot and pick up 5 or 6 4x4 plain wooden furniture legs[0]. Simply drill a hole for each leg into each of the corners of the boxspring, and add the extra 1 or 2 legs in the middle of the boxspring for centered support (1 if your bed is queen or smaller; 2 if it's a king). Screw the furniture legs into the included tee nut that you hammer into the drilled hole. It won't make much of a mess, and you can have it done in 1 hour. Drilling 5-6 holes is about the only thing simpler than spending an afternoon cutting wood & bolting it together. I did exactly this for my boys' beds, and they even had a blast helping.
I used standard wooden forklift pallets in college and for years afterwards. I scrounged them somewhere. Not beautiful but free or cheap, and pre-made.
Also, dense cinderblocks make excellent speaker stands.
I don't enjoy my middle-aged 'grown up' furniture any more than I enjoyed that stuff.
> All I want is a simple raised wooden platform, and they're absurdly expensive.
> At some point im going to be forced to build the damn thing myself if the market is going to refuse to sell anything sensible
I did this and was so happy with the results that I built a second one for the room that we rent out. Probably $80 in materials and a few hours to assemble. Feels sturdier than the floor it stands on (no weeble wobbles). Photos: https://imgur.com/a/gtwmS
Could share plans but it's pretty simple: 1/2" sanded plywood for the surface, 2x6 outer frame, 2x4 joists, 2x4 legs that bolt to the frame, a pound of 3" screws. The plywood surface sits about an inch inside the frame, creating a lip that holds the mattress in place.
If you don't have power tools then HD / Lowes can can make all the cuts for you (I recommend this for the plywood as they have the best saw for it), then all you need is a drill to put the thing together.
Any particular reason you want wood? I've found the folding metal frames you can buy on Amazon to be fantastic. Cheap, easy to assemble, super stable, no creaking, minimal profile, lots of under-bed storage, easy to move.
Not sure about the mattress, but I have a buckwheat pillow and it has improved the quality of my sleep by a LOT. If you have a long neck, or otherwise feel like something is missing from your life, try a buckwheat pillow : )
It's an IKEA Edsele. It's 85% natural latex, OekoTex certified. It was manufactured by Mountaintop Foam. Sadly discountinued. The price was a bargain. I got it for €390, size 90x200 cm.
"According to materials published by Ohio State University, a typical used mattress may have 100,000 to 10 million mites inside. Ten percent of the weight of a two-year-old pillow can be composed of dead mites and their droppings. Mites prefer warm, moist surroundings such as the inside of a mattress when someone is on it. One of their favorite foods is dead skin, and people shed about one fifth of an ounce of the stuff every week, some of which surely ends up flaking into your mattress."
I thought I loved the idea of a solid-chunk-of-memory-foam mattress. But now I've identified that it's causing me serious back/neck problems; maybe it just doesn't suit my body-type or something. I'm looking to replace it with a decent firm spring mattress. But it sure was easier to shop for mattress-in-a-box.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 210 ms ] threadhttps://twitter.com/machinepix/status/965691925712875521
Instead of merely airing the bed each morning I run a dehumidifer. Hopefully this will reduce mould & mites. Now HN can tell me why my personal mattress hack is a bad idea.
When my kids were tots and we took them to day care, the day care center had a collection of little beds for naps, which were some kind of durable fabric mesh stretched over a frame. I've often wondered how that would work as a general purpose mattress for adults, with little chance of festering over time.
[1]http://armynavysuperstores.com/cots.htm
This is why memory foam is so effective - instead of having 1024 springs, add more add more!!! - we just get a porous composite material with 1000000 tiny nooks which basically act as springs. Latex on the other hand, if not in foam form, can be solid, and gains its "spring" properties just from its tensile chemistry alone. No nooks needed. But latex foam is sold..which is a marriage of the two ideas.
In any case, hammocks aren't gonna hurt you from sleeping on em occasionally, especially since the pressure points will mostly be your back as hammocks are often hung loosely, so that the attachment points can be much much higher than your actual body, therefore moving most of the force to a vertical pressure, instead of that lateral pressure we talked about.
I figure they do it that way because it is much faster than just letting the vacuum do the work which for a production facility is a must. But when you have a small budget and more time then using the vacuum directly is the best way to go.
There is an interesting branch of manufacturing related to this trick:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_forming
That's kind of why certain furniture brands catered to urban markets (smaller dwelling) tend to make some of furniture able to be dis-assembled: much easier for moving around.
https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/geograph...
Pretty much as soon as you buy a bed, your car is too small. And if you're at the level of self sufficiency where you own a bed, you probably own other things like chairs, tables and chests of drawers.
Just a few days ago, AVE did a few videos showing evidence that there may be a single supplier for some new airguns that are on the market. Thing is, these air guns range in price from less than $100 (harbor freight) to well over $500 (premium brand). He tested a Husky brand that was much more expensive than the HF one and found it to likely be worse than the cheap one. He had a good theory in the video that no one can beat manufacturing overseas now days for quality or price. So everyone just outsources it and is hoping no one notices.
I have a Leesa as it was the only mattress (at the time) which fit my bed properly. The fact that all these companies can offer 100-365 day trials does hint at how stupidly large the margins are.
It feels great for me, I like a firmer mattress, but it’s not too firm.
Here are the highlights:
1. Half the price of the equivalent at Sleep Country
2. Didn’t have to deal with mattress sales people. Margins are so high there is usually a negotiation. Given the varying types of materials, I don’t really know how to price and why I should bother knowing the ins and outs of mattresses. I don’t like the upsells. Makes it feel like going to a car dealership.
3. Shipped and got delivered fairly fast.
Cons:
1. Buying it sight unseen can be unnerving, especially for a $1,000 purchase. I guess that’s why they have the generous return policy.
2. Differentiation. I don’t know how Casper is different from Leesa. I went on a review site and trusted it, I guess, but even then, they seemed to be made the same way more or less.
I don't have a critique from any sort of experience aside from that I sleep well and its comfortable.
I have the soft king size for the bedroom, and 2x full size mediums for the guest beds.
My wife stole the free giant shredded foam pillow. I probably couldn't take it from her if I tried.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00V909F1K
I like it quite a bit. When I was getting shipped around on a plane every week for work, the hotel super soft pillows really didn't stack up. You get used to having something that fully molds to your head.
Is it better than all the other companies? It's still very difficult to tell without trying them side by side. When I bought it there weren't that many offerings in the UK - I think it was only Leesa, Casper and Simba.
One concern is that there's no way of easily removing the cover, and all it'll take is one glass of wine to ruin it. So while it looks great in the photos, really you'll want to put some kind of protector on it.
I also tried one of Casper's pillows, which was great until it started bunching like crazy and is now useless. Don't waste your money on the expensive upsell 'accessories'.
The "return" for the Leesa was a disposal truck from 1-800-Got-Junk. It already had another Leesa mattress on it from that morning. Used mattresses can't really be resold; I hope they're at least somewhat recyclable.
Concerned with paying lip service to health and safety (and maybe create an extra regulator job or two)? Sure. But at some point, labeling everything as cancer causing takes away any meaning what so ever. I think California labels something every week as cancer causing. It's just become noise at this point. Here's the latest now for ya: Coffee https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/03/29/coffee-cance...
Have you ever worked hospitality?
Which means sure, if it works out, but mostly these are probably still going into the trash.
I don't think they ask you to ship it back; I think they contract with some local charity to come pick up the mattress, or just toss it and write off the loss.
And assuming they agree that it deserves a replacement, you have to pay shipping costs for them to ship the replacement.
So.... you can either pay $500 to ship an $800 mattress back to the factory and hope that they agree that it's defective enough to deserve a warranty replacement.... or you can just buy a new mattress.
Makes the 10 year warranty pretty meaningless if you pay more in shipping costs to make a claim than the mattress is worth.
[1] https://www.uship.com
"Purple will cover the shipping or pickup charges for returns and exchanges, except when there are extenuating circumstances. You will be informed beforehand if extra charges will apply."
which is consistent with what I was saying, which is that you don't have to pay return shipping.
But I think you are right that shipping costs dominate; from what I hear, the reputable brands will give you a refund and send someone local to haul off the mattress for free.
From their warranty page:
Any to-or-from transportation handling and costs and inspection costs associated with repairs or replacements are the responsibility of purchaser
So basically, don't count on that 10 year warranty for any of these mattresses unless you can truck it to the factory yourself.
Minimum warranty period in EU is 2 years.
Under the UK Sale of Goods Act products have to be free from defect, there's no official time limit, it's based on expectations in part. A mattress should last much longer, so that would be a defect in manufacturing and the _seller_ has to make good (repair or replace at their cost).
Anyone here had one of these rolled-up mattresses for 10+ years? The long term durability of these roll-up mattresses is a concern for me.
That and mattresses are notoriously horrible to recycle anything from, so caring about mattress longevity is both selfish and selfless.
She prefers a softer mattress so we rotated it about a year ago and it's been fine for both of us since then.
I've slept on her side a few times and it's been fine, so maybe having a lighter person on it has let it firm up a bit.
If it's a foam mattress, it doesn't exactly go back in the original box, because it's vacuum packed and expands after opening.
Other people in this thread said they took the mattress and donated it or recycled it.
If it's all a marketing ploy, as the article implies, then there's a lot of happy people benefiting. ;)
Notably, mattress stores participate in the classic tactic of price inflation, as well as taking the same model of mattress and giving it a different name, making it much more difficult to comparison shop:
>For example, the popular Simmons Beautyrest line has different brand names at different stores. The "Beautyrest Recharge Allie" at Macy's is called the "Beautyrest Recharge Devonwood Luxury" at Sears, the "Recharge Signature Select Hartfield" at Mattress Firm, and the "Beautyrest Recharge Lyric Luxury" at US-Mattress.com. If customers don't realize these are names for the same mattress, it's harder for them to bargain effectively.
Then again, maybe these online mattress companies are doing the same thing too, just one step removed. At least there's no pushy sales staff when I order a bed in a box.
They've just switched us from feeling like we can pick the right mattress through trying a dozen in a store to reading online reviews. Both are biased, but everyone needs some way to feel confident about a big purchase.
I think we switched them at least once, but honestly can't remember how many times, and can no longer tell which one I "really" like.
Through this process I learned... I don't actually have mattress preferences, short of it not being a bunch of rocks.
I'm sure some people actually have preferences, but I wonder if this is an area, like vodka, where you can make people feel strongly like they have preferences between two things that are barely distinct, if at all.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/02/23/588346329/epis...
I can't help but feel like the entire podcasting industry was funded by businesses that are 'cutting out the middleman' as if this is a novel concept. Frankly, the mattress-in-a-box companies are nowhere near the worst offenders in this regard!
I can definitely see the value of the ability for customers to actually REVIEW the options, though.
Questions on my budget, spending time to show me the mattresses (and then making me feel guilty that they spent all of this time on me), etc. Offering me a "last minute" deal once they saw that I was leaving. It was dreadful.
In this regard, IKEA can be a good compromise on price, selection, and their employees' relaxed, non-pushy demeanour. You get to try the mattresses and no one (except other customers) will watch over you.
---
Contradicting all of my points above, I do want to say that investing in a Tempur-Pedic was a life changing decision. I definitely spend a more "rewarding" time sleeping in it.
(((obviously, but just in case someone is wondering, I'm not astroturfing for IKEA or Tempur. Just a satisfied customer...)))
Ps, check my past comments - I am not a shill, just someone who digs tempurpedic.
Gel memory foam is the nice compromise. You get the memory foam but with a gel topper. It's noticeably cooler and a bit firmer than typical memory foam. We got one and have since moved the regular memory foam into the guest room.
I got this one[0] from WalMart because I think once you get above $500 for a mattress you see a cliff of diminishing returns in quality. I’m quite happy with it.
0: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Modern-Sleep-Cool-Gel-Memory-Foam...
I switched from a memory foam mattress to the Purple specifically because of the heat issue.
On the topic of thermal mass, more thermal mass would actually keep you cooler longer, because it would take longer to saturate the mattress with heat. Ventilation is probably a much more significant issue than thermal mass though.
I should replace it with something else, but I'm far from sure I can find something.
And once someone figured out that you can roll and vacuum seal a mattress and ship UPS - lots of online stores.
Writing this while laying on an Avacado latex mattress.... HATED every second of mattress store nonsense... oh you’re having a sale just today!? My goodness how lucky! :/
And all of these products have at least 20 to 30 or more other listings of the exact same product with some other made up "brand name" on it.
I have to wonder if the low barrier to entry takes Hotelling's Law and explodes it into high gear. Like, how many actually-different mattress design patterns and materials are there anyway?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
I would much rather re-buy my setup again every time I move, than spend a ton of money on a "proper" mattress and deal with moving it/dealing with movers — for now, at least.
My dad once bought a $5000 mattress. He literally died in it complaining about the purchase.
He spent his adult life priding himself on not being a fool with his money. He did a good job doing the opposite of what companies wanted, but he slipped up on the mattress.
(I probally shouldn't have mentioned my dad's death. We had a twisted relationship. He was a good guy deep down, but the alcohol affected his personality, and not in a good way.)
If I was forced to open a retail brick and mortar store; it would be a toss up between mattresses, couches, or a thrift store.
2 years later and I have no complaints with my 300$ Amazon foam mattress.
Casper was not the first mattress in a box online company. But Casper definitely is the first company to get the marketing right.
Given how they sued people who gave bad reviews to their products, I think that is more than enough reason to never buy from them, especially sight unseen.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6900625
I’m pretty sure that at the time, Tuft and Needle was the main name in the game, and I definitely hadn’t heard of Casper at that point, so there seems to be a bit of revisionist history attributing the rise of these mattresses to Casper? I don’t know.
I’m still happy with my T&N.
Has anyone who wasn’t a fan of memory foam mattresses been swayed by any of these companies? We live in the south and haven’t liked the few we’ve tried for them sleeping hot and general feel. Kind of wish I could try before I buy.
To be clear: I’m sure I could find a nicer mattress, but this was easy and represents a good value.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3065928/sleepopolis-casper-blogg...
IMO it looks like the mattress business is 99% marketing.
It is a rectangle of foams, I would love it if companies stopped pretending that they spent thousand of man hours improving it while they all come from the same factory (I am not even exaggerating much here :/ ).
I moved to the US recently and was shocked by how big the mattress business is here and how costly these are.
For example, someone else in these comments loves their floor futon, but I loathe mine.
Mattresses are in a way kinda interchangeable. Sure there's different quality and a well worn mattress will be different from a new one, but, in general, you probably aren't going to sleep differently on a different brand of a similar quality mattress.
About 6 years ago I read that people who bought their mattress from the internet we're just as satisfied with their purchase as people who tried them out in the store beforehand.
Plus most people's opinions suck anyway.
If your distribution model has always been freight no need to try anything else - then someone came along and did something else.
Same reason you hear so many car dealership and insurance ads.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...
But then: why not as many furniture ads?
this whole mattress in a box segment is essentially 70% marketing and 30% RD//Production//Shipping. Those companies price around 1000$ for a mattress, but I highly doubt the production (and shipping) is anything more than 150$.
I'm happy there is an alternative to the older shaddy company that cornered that market (sleeptrain and all of those), but it's still too much marketing, too little value for a fairly simple product!
(I have a Leesa and it's a mattress... It's ok).
Finally went to Ikea and tried a 200 AUD mattress, that felt good too so got that.
All the mattress were medium firm and I could not figure out any difference with all three of them with the 20 second demo.
These are good, but in my case they couldn't beat a setup that is an order of magnitude cheaper, simpler and better. A simple custom-made japanese shikibuton, filled with felted wool panels and a buckwheat pillow. I put this on a modular set of bed slates to avoid insects, get better airing and avoid cold floors.
I treated a few years of my life as an experiment to improve my sleep. I bought a Hästens and that latex IKEA mattress. I used them for 3 years, switching back and forth every 6 months. Then I made this custom shikibuton, and after a few months I never looked back.
There is some literature which explains how we evolved sleeping in relatively firm setups. Big, expensive and mushy mattresses tend to be a bit too soft and you end up developing neck aches as I did. A better option is just some slightly flexible wood base, or a tatami, and some thin cushion. In fact, another less unconventional setup I like is a horsehair topper, like one of those from Hästens, on top of some wooden base.
My shikibuton is really cheap. It's washable! I can open my futon, put felted wool panels in the washing machine and it's dry in a day. It's very comfortable. It's ended up my perennial neck issues. It's convenient, I can transport the whole system in my tiny car.
A simpler, non-washable alternative is to have a big cover filled up with buckwheat hulls. Every 6 months, compost hulls, buy new ones, and wash cover. Every month, empty hulls into a bag and wash cover.
I don't understand why this alternative is not more popular in the West.
> Every 6 months, compost hulls, buy new ones, and wash cover. Every month, empty hulls into a bad and wash cover.
Alternatively: Have a mattress for 10 years, do nothing.
Buckwheat hulls can easily last 5 years without maintenance. Still, I prefer the wool alternative, which again doesn't need to be cleaned often or at all, as most people do with their regular mattresses.
The fact that stuff is washable is an advantage for me, because I'm a bit allergic, and regular mattresses don't have a simple way to be deeply cleaned. The best thing you can do so far is to vacuum them with a Dyson for mattresses.
Can you explain your "bed slates" further? All I want is a simple raised wooden platform, and they're absurdly expensive. Bed frames in general seem like a totally messes up market; Ikea's fucking slats could drive a man to murder, and anything else is overpriced or cheap and overdesigned
At some point im going to be forced to build the damn thing myself if the market is going to refuse to sell anything sensible
https://zafu.net/wp-content/uploads/ecosquaresbedframeviewsm...
The idea is simple, just some blocks you connect (2 or 4) and some legs, so it's easy to ship and transport. The design above is good, but IMHO it's better to have some flexible wood. Especially if you are a side sleeper.
You can usually buy decent ones in the US or UK for $150 if you look for futon platforms. If you want some flexibility but you don't want to go the custom route, buy a tatami raised platform and buy a tatami.
Why wait? If all you want is a simple platform, you couldn’t beat the price of buying and cutting some wood yourself.
I'll beat the price at the cost of time and effort (and probably some favors), and I'm not sure carpentry interests me enough for the learning to have much value. So its a last resort, if I can find nothing decent, and decently priced.
A. Put a listing on Craigslist asking someone to build you a simple platform. Say that you'll pay for the materials, and get them to quote a price for the labor. Maybe ask them to deliver it, as well.
2. Find a local maker space. They likely have the tools you'd need. You can rent a pickup truck from a local U-Haul or Home Depot usually. Cutting wood is pretty much the easiest thing you could learn to do in an afternoon. Find out the dimensions of your desired mattress, and for a platform bed, you'll be pretty okay if you play it safe and make your platform 4 inches wider & longer than your mattress (2in on each side of the mattress). Pick up some plywood to go over the frame if you don't want to cut 20 slats--you could, say, make a frame out of just 8 boards, and then screw plywood to the top of it. For the legs, you don't need anything other than, say, a 4" high simple wooden furniture leg[0] to bolt to the platform itself. Then you just bolt/screw it all together.
D. If you really don't want to spend an afternoon of your life cutting some wood, buy a decent boxspring with a wooden frame, then go to Home Depot and pick up 5 or 6 4x4 plain wooden furniture legs[0]. Simply drill a hole for each leg into each of the corners of the boxspring, and add the extra 1 or 2 legs in the middle of the boxspring for centered support (1 if your bed is queen or smaller; 2 if it's a king). Screw the furniture legs into the included tee nut that you hammer into the drilled hole. It won't make much of a mess, and you can have it done in 1 hour. Drilling 5-6 holes is about the only thing simpler than spending an afternoon cutting wood & bolting it together. I did exactly this for my boys' beds, and they even had a blast helping.
[0]: https://www.homedepot.com/p/American-Pro-Decor-4-in-x-4-in-U...
Also, dense cinderblocks make excellent speaker stands.
I don't enjoy my middle-aged 'grown up' furniture any more than I enjoyed that stuff.
https://kdframes.com/collections/beds/products/asheville-pla...
https://kdframes.com/collections/beds/products/fold-platform...
$150 for a full-size platform that folds and is made of solid wood seems like a good price to me.
You can get lower if you go for a metal frame, e.g. Zinus:
https://www.amazon.com/Zinus-Platform-Mattress-Foundation-Bo...
> At some point im going to be forced to build the damn thing myself if the market is going to refuse to sell anything sensible
I did this and was so happy with the results that I built a second one for the room that we rent out. Probably $80 in materials and a few hours to assemble. Feels sturdier than the floor it stands on (no weeble wobbles). Photos: https://imgur.com/a/gtwmS
Could share plans but it's pretty simple: 1/2" sanded plywood for the surface, 2x6 outer frame, 2x4 joists, 2x4 legs that bolt to the frame, a pound of 3" screws. The plywood surface sits about an inch inside the frame, creating a lip that holds the mattress in place.
If you don't have power tools then HD / Lowes can can make all the cuts for you (I recommend this for the plywood as they have the best saw for it), then all you need is a drill to put the thing together.
"According to materials published by Ohio State University, a typical used mattress may have 100,000 to 10 million mites inside. Ten percent of the weight of a two-year-old pillow can be composed of dead mites and their droppings. Mites prefer warm, moist surroundings such as the inside of a mattress when someone is on it. One of their favorite foods is dead skin, and people shed about one fifth of an ounce of the stuff every week, some of which surely ends up flaking into your mattress."