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Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

472 points by robsun ↗ HN
Hi,

I'm writing this on my late 2012 MacBook Pro. Time goes by and I know rather sooner than later I'll need to replace it with a new machine. In 2012 I paid around 1000$ for MacBook Pro + Samsung SSD (256GB) + 16GB RAM, I made modifications on my own.

I check notebookcheck from time to time. I read reviews, opinions about new laptops. The point is, I don't know if there is any machine that could be recommended in reasonable price. At work I'm using some new MacBook Pro which (i5/16GB/128GB SSD) which is noticeably slower than my current machine.

Performance of the computer is quite important for me. I'm an Android developer, compilation of a big project I'm working on takes enormous amount of RAM and CPU nowadays (with new Android Studio it's even worse). From time to time I work on web projects, so handling several instances of docker shouldn't be a problem for a new machine. I prefer Linux over MacOs over Windows, so good support for Ubuntu/Fedora would be nice.

I checked some computers in details but most of them fail in one or more aspects: - hinges - MacBook has superior hinges, if I pay more than 1000 - 1500$ I expect to have great hinges - price - performance - Linux support

Price is quite important for me, I'm from Eastern Europe. What computer would you recommend in, let's say, <2000$ ?

501 comments

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blackdivine
I'd say buy a new mid 2015 Macbook 15inches, some vendors might have it in stock. I recently got it for around $2000 USD in Pakistan. It's Core i7, 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD.
andy_ppp
Yes, having upgraded from one I fully regret this decision, mostly because of the keyboard and the £2000 after trade in. I’m actually a big fan of USB-C, it’s much better.
epmaybe
Not to bring this up in every usb-c comment, but what do you do for backwards compatibility? I consistently (nearly daily) find myself having to connect older USB devices into my laptop, but end up grabbing an adapter/dongle to connect the device. Flash drives, external hard drives, and SD card readers are my main issues.
Rjevski
I guess it depends on what work you do, personally I only rarely (if ever) use USB devices, but for the single one I have (a document scanner) I just leave the dongle plugged into it so it's basically part of the device - if I ever grab the device it's got the proper dongle with it already.
always_good
Well, it's the same answer as every other usb-c thread: a dongle.
andy_ppp
I actually have a dongle thing with monitor pass through, older usb, sd card reader, mouse etc on my desk. Get all of these with one port.

Bought a cheap usb c enclosure off Amazon for backups too (swapping the hd) and I love it when I buy a new device that has usb c because I only need the cable that comes with my MacBook for camera and wireless headphones charging. So actually I’m nearly dongle free at this point. Still think it’s a real shame they didn’t keep the inbuilt SD card reader.

pseudometa
They have been around so long you could likely get an Apple refurbished one for a few hundred less than new.
tonyedgecombe
Yes, I picked up one on the refurb store, I've been very pleased so far.
hiram112
There are a few left from reputable sellers on Ebay and sometimes online vendors for around $1750. Without tax, that's about the same price you'll pay refurbished at Apple.
hiram112
My new 15" MBP 2015 just arrived from Ebay in the US. $1740 total which is about $400 less than you'll pay at the Apple store.

I think the 2015 model has now replaced the older 2012 model (last that had upgradable parts) as the MBP that power users go for, even though it's almost $2k for hardware that'd be $800 on a typical windows machine.

Tunecrew
This is what I did when upgrading last year - bought a used one on eBay (which is a first for me - normally buy them new) - 2015 15" fully maxed out (fastest i7, 16GB, 1TB) and including the GPU, so it basically benchmarks only slightly slower than the top of the line current model.

I already had a TB2 hub and other TB2 peripherals and extra MagSafe 2 power supplies, so no additional investment in adapters, etc.

The kicker was the unit I bought has been purchased less than a year before I got it, so it was still eligible for AppleCare (you can check this w/ the serial number that most reputable eBay vendors provide). The time has probably passed for this, although you could still get a unit where someone else has already gotten it.

All in was US$ 2,050 including AppleCare

eecc
Latest Thinkpad Carbon X1 with extra warranty? It hovers around your budget max, well within if you can recover VAT
emilsedgh
X1 Carbon is quite nice.

I'm not sure if it has the performance you want. You should check out the specs. If the specs are good enough, give the machine a try. It's amazing.

MrMorden
If performance is a primary criterion, why get a U-suffix processor? The X1 Carbon is about thin and light.
SlowBro
Lots of people love the Lenovo X220, which can be upgraded with simple screwdrivers to the latest and greatest processors and motherboards using fan-made motherboards.

(That’s how popular they are, fans are making newer motherboards for them. I don’t know the experience, I’m using a very old Toughbook to devel since my needs aren’t great.)

What’s with the hinges? I’ve never had one fail. Granted, I’m no road warrior.

qume
I'm surrounded by fancy machines but the X220 just keeps on finding an excuse to be used. I would say I use it more than any other machine.

The thing has a soul. I love it.

I took > 20,000 photos today from a cessna using it's inbuilt ethernet port and four machine vision cameras. When you're paying for aircraft time and are bumping around a bit, having that thing on your lap makes you feel like you have a good wing man.

SlowBro
> I took > 20,000 photos today from a cessna using it's inbuilt ethernet port and four machine vision cameras.

That sounds like a cool project. What was the goal?

qume
Aerial mapping of terrain using photogrammetry
ericintheloft2
Yeah there are great alternatives to a macbook. Look at Dell XPS for example, install linux on it if you're like me and don't like windows.
mailmrg
i am using HP pavilion. its quad core, comes with 8gb expandable to 16GB, no ssd (which is pain), full HD display matte (which is something i like compared to glossy), backlit keyboard and windows10. this is my replacement for my macbook pro 2011. so far pretty good to me. i havent tried linux. https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-Pavilion-15-Power-i7-7700HQ...
Daviey
Thinkpad X-Series, great Linux support

(I'm using X-250 still, going strong and onsite warranty is amazing)

bluedino
Beware the latest model - the X280. They removed the SATA ports and you can no longer upgrade the RAM
robotmay
I use a 13" ThinkPad X250 when I'm not at my desk and I've been pretty impressed by it. I picked it up second-hand for <£600 and its performance is solid, and with good battery life (and hinges)! My only gripe is that the screen suffers from impermanent burn-in. I work mostly on Ruby and Rust projects, with quite a lot of containers.

I'm not sure what the newer and bigger models are like, however, so maybe someone else would have more experience there.

The other guys at work have all opted for XPS 13" machines. They haven't arrived yet, but I'm curious as to what they'll be like.

xab9
Now that you mention it on my X230, IPS panel, impermanent burn in is visible too, mostly with gray or dark wallpapers. I got used to it during the years though.
robotmay
Yeah it was only really noticeable when moving between the browser and my terminal (dark theme). I think they cheaped out a bit on the panel used in it, which is a shame as otherwise it's a cracking little laptop.
MrMorden
Is yours an IPS or TN screen? From what I've read the fleet buyers will do anything to save a few dollars a unit so Lenovo offers TN as a base model for that market.
xab9
Yep, there are two version, but mine is IPS, clearly visible from the viewing angle and the bios ID, yet the burnin is there. But again, the used laptop cost me around 1/7th of a Macbook Pro :)
Giako
I suggest looking into the Dell XPS line (both 13 or 15 models, depending on your screen size tastes). I own a 2015 Dell XPS 13 and Linux support is amazing (long battery life, the laptop does not overheat and everything works out of the box on Ubuntu). The only weak spot is the webcam location in the lower part of the screen.

Another good alternative could be the Thinkpad Carbon X line, but I don't have any direct experience.

At work I use a mid-2015 Macbook Pro, if you stick to MacOs it's a very good machine. I also have an Ubuntu 17.10 partition on this machine that I use as main daily driver, but there are a few catches with this particular model (slight overheating, battery life is good but not great, I had to manually install drivers for backlight control and webcam).

robotmay
At the moment I think there are a few bugs with Linux support on the XPS 15 but they shouldn't last long. A friend of mine was having quite a lot of trackpad issues that don't appear to affect the 13" model.
dawnerd
Did they ever fix the sleep issue? That was a dealbreaker for me last year.
koehr
I don't have any issues with Suspend To Ram, if that is what you mean. I'm using a Dell XPS 15 9550 with Void Linux.
bhouston
I had no issues with Linux support, just follow the guides and you can install stock Ubuntu with no problems with GPU switching and docking station support and everything else.
latch
One problem with the 13" XPS is that 16GB configuration without a 4K+touchscreen display is only available in some countries (Europe, Hong Kong, ...?) I've been looking to get one (new macbook pro keyoard keeps breaking), but the buying experience has been pretty bad where I am.

I'll be in Japan later this month, and I'll probably buy an HP Envy. The XPS doesn't come in the aforementioned configuration and the Carbon X is considerably more expensive (and I can't make heads or tail of their Japanese site).

(portability is pretty important to me).

ericabiz
I was able to custom-configure the XPS 13 with a non-touch display and 16GB here: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-13/spd/xps-1... (US link)

I run repair shops for a living, and I'd certainly recommend the XPS 13 over a HP. The build quality of the HP Envy laptops we get in are terrible. The XPS 13 is just a better laptop.

latch
Thanks for the info. They must have added that more recently. I noticed the same thing in Hong Kong where the 16GB 1080p option only became available after my last trip there. Just checked the Japan website, it still only has 16GB and/or 512GB with 4K touch.

Sucks to hear about the Envy.

pentium166
I don't believe Envy vs XPS is apples to apples, HP's Spectre laptops probably compare more favorably in terms of build quality. Have you looked into that line at all?
latch
Thanks, that's what I meant. Their product names really don't stick with me. For the last month I've been calling it the "Edge".
pmontra
I've got a HP ZBook 15 in 2014. I'm happy with it but it's only a data point. Did you service any of them, how do they compare?
ericabiz
Hi, I haven't seen enough of the ZBooks in our stores to form an opinion on them at this time.
Qub3d
Well, shit. I wish I had known about this approximately one month ago when I bought mine.

The screen is beautiful and the battery life is OK, but I really don't see the point of 4K at this size. I figured they were just forcing an upsell to higher margin configurations...

stevesimmons
I have had an XPS13 for the last three years, running Linux. Absolutely love it. At home, it is hooked up to a 27" 4k monitor. While travelling, it is very light and has reasonable battery life. The only limitation is the fixed 8GB RAM (note: the 2018 XPS13 has a 16GB model).

As the new 2018 XPS15 was announced 5 days ago [1], I'll probably trade up now to get the Nvidia GTX1050 GPU and RAM user-upgradable to 32GB.

[1] https://www.techradar.com/reviews/dell-xps-15-2018

lorenzhs
I have last year's Thinkpad X1 Carbon. Excellent Linux support (great battery life, everything works out of the box except for the fingerprint reader) and a fantastic machine. Screen is good, it's quite a bit lighter than a MacBook Pro 13" and has a good selection of ports (2 x TB-3/USB-C, 2 x USB-A, full-size HDMI). But I can't judge if it meets OP's performance requirements (it is somewhat thermally limited due to the small form factor and thinness), maybe check out the T480 / T480s instead if you need more power.

One of my colleagues has a two-year old XPS13 and is very happy with it, too. I think they're both great choices.

chongli
Did they fix the coil whine on the Dell machines?
bhouston
As someone who has had one for a year, it never affected me. It always seemed like FUD to me, but maybe it affected someone.
lardo
Most of the developers at my office are using the 9360. Every single one of those machines is subject to coil whine at load.
Qub3d
They changed the cooling solution completely this year, so the coil whine is much less of an issue. I'm sure some may still have it, but from my sample size of 1 I haven't had a problem.
mar225
Does anyone know if any of the laptop vendors that pre-install ubuntu will be doing any promotions or hardware updates to coincide with the 18.04 release?
kayoone
If you want Linux, Dell XPS and Thinkpads have the best out of the box support, you shouldn't have issues with them, but you should probably get the last gen to be on the safe side.

MBP with good performance around 2000$ leaves only the 2015 15" model i guess, that is still a very capable machine though and Apple still sells it.

One thing to note is, that Intels new CPU generation enables 6/12 Cores/Threads for machines that previously had 4/8 and 4/8 for those that had 2/4 before. They are already in the latest Dells and should come to MBPs this year, but you'd have to wait a couple of years until they come down to 2k$

csomar
You are probably priced out of the MacbookPro. I also need to make that decision (mine is from 2014) and a high spec macbook pro will cost in the tune of 3.200usd for a non-taxed jurisdiction (ie: HongKong or Airport Tax Refund)

If you are willing to put that money, I'd recommend you wait a bit to see the release of the new mac, the prices and the specs.

Otherwise, you'll have to start shopping on other brands and move to Linux.

xab9
Thinkpad X230 here, IPS version, used ones are laughably cheap (Central/Eastern Europe).

Battery, ram (two slots), keyboard, hdd are very easy to replace, everything works perfectly with linux (except bluetooth, but that's always problematic).

On the downside the speaker and the touchpad are crap, so it's your call. I got a Macbook Air in case I gotta work on a project where osx is a must, but fortunately I haven't touched that fancy paper weight for two years now.

roscoebeezie
X230 user here (non-IPS). The touchpad isnt just crap, it’s unusable. I’ve also had issues with non-intel wireless card.
MrMorden
Which non-Intel card? The Atheros ones should work fine; Realtek makes hot garbage that should be avoided at all costs.

(If it's a non-Lenovo card you'd need to disable the BIOS whitelist, but that's easy enough to do.)

eeZah7Ux
Thinkpads are robust, reliable and have good Linux support.

However, Purism Librem 15 is interesting as well:

https://puri.sm/products/librem-15/

colomon
Huh.

On the one hand, that sounds like a nice laptop.

On the other hand, that landing page ad copy reads like someone took a challenge to add twice again to the snake oil of your usual Apple PR...

chvid
I would get the 13" macbook pro without touchbar. Service and warranty is better. Resell value is better. And since you prefer Unix ...
Protostome
I have been using ASUS Zenbook UX301L + Ubuntu for 3 years now, and I'm pretty happy with it.

Having said that, I think the system requirements of a 2018 developer are quite different than a 2012 developer. Today you can accomplish vast majority of development tasks on a remote instance on the cloud. I haven't compiled or ran a program locally for ages (except for a browser/terminal/spotify/etc).

I have a cheap EC2 instance that I use for coding and those sorts of things, when I need to run some more data intensive jobs (e.g. compilation, data crunching, etc) I just launch some more robust instances to take care of that for me.

Therefore, in my opinion, a proper setup of a cloud environment that autoscales with respect to your needs is much more cost effective than a powerful laptop.

multipass
Anyone with experiences running the Huawei Matebook?
SauciestGNU
Yeah, I have it. Linux works great, except the function key layer and stereo sound on the built-in speakers due to the unusual audio chipset.

Performance is fantastic, the keyboard is passable, the screen looks beautiful, and build quality seems on par with my 2010 MacBook pro, and definitely better than my Lenovo Thinkpad.

TheForumTroll
Apple have to consider themselves lucky Huawei isn't having an easy time in the US. In my opinion they are better than Apple in design and hardware. I wonder how much lobbying Apple does against Huawei in the mobile market.
vasilakisfil
I have owned a MacBook Pro for many years (I think it was a late 2012 model as well) given by my employer in which I always run Linux in it. I was disgusted with the hardware support on Linux (especially on Wifi/Bluetooth) so I got a new XPS 15 inch (again from my employer), specifically the 9550 (from 2016), the non-touch screen (with FHD resolution). I can tell you that it runs Ubuntu very smoothly and has great battery life etc and I really like this laptop.

But to be honest Dell comes nowhere close with Apple regarding quality of build. Although I truly believe the XPS is probably the best bet for a developer that wants Linux, it's probably like that because if I put everything in the basket (slimness, battery life, speed, hardware, linux support etc), there isn't any other better option outhere. I wish Dell was building better laptops but it isn't.

AndrewOMartin
Maybe it's possible to develop in a more modular fashion which will reduce your compiler demands.

This may not apply to you as you're doing Android dev, and I'm doing theoretical computer science, but when I adapted so that 99% of what my computer does is manipulate and store UTF-8 I found I could work perfectly well with the resources of an approximately £170 Chromebook running crouton.

yutuco
System76 has a line of high end Linix Laptops, if you take their OS (Ubuntu based) you get a pretty direct alternative to MacBook Pro

https://system76.com/laptops

koehr
System76 is definitely on my watch list. After using a Dell XPS with, what they call an infinity edge display (means, very thin bezels, hence a 15 inch display in a <14 inch case) and 4K resolution, I'm afraid I couldn't go "back" though :o
always_good
I miss my bezel on my Macbook Air. Now I always have fingerprints on the perimeter. Not really a feature I ever wanted, just makes it look better on the sales floor.
acobster
I use a System76 Serval laptop at work. Up til then I had worked almost exclusively on Macs. It's the best computer I've ever had.
devnonymous
You can configure yourself a nice system76 or a Dell xps 13 for <$2000. I recently bought myself a Dell xps 13 and have no regrets. Although I don't do android dev I'd be surprised if it couldn't handle it.
vbezhenar
I built PC for $1000 which is much more powerful than my 2012 MBP and enjoying it so far. I plan to upgrade it few years later and keep using it for years. For notebook I considered Dell Latitude 5x series and probably would buy it if I needed notebook, but for me desktop is superior option, I work from one place.
rfolstad
Check out the xioami notebook pro great specs and price with macbook like build quality. i hear you can even run hackintosh on it. I have the xiaomi notebook 12 running ubuntu and its great!
cyberferret
Geez I miss my old 17" Macbook Pro! Ok, it was a bulky form factor, but it was ideal size for me to do both my programming work as well as audio recording work on it.

It still works, but it is maxed out at 8GB RAM, and struggled to run most modern software, including Logic Pro X with all my usual plugins. I wish Apple would bring out a 17" Macbook Pro again in the future.