I know about and have done Toastmasters. Are there any other effective ways to develop my interpersonal abilities, besides reading "How to Make Friends and Influence People" etc?
You can't read yourself into social adeptness. I'd suggest participating in some non-nerd social gatherings. Figure out something you like and go spend some time doing it. Oddly enough, the nerds you do meet in other contexts tend to be interesting and well connected. (In Berlin for instance, there's a large overlap between the open source / founders social scenes and the electronic music scenes. I met my cofounder and many of the contacts that we're using through music rather than, say, the local LUG.)
I second the "meet nerds in other contexts" cause. I played some theatre at my university and besides becoming friends with some very cool girls and traveling the world, I strangely enough met a lot of other cs guys there.
And those are the ones who are indeed more interesting as they have a life beyond their computer, travel the world and have a broader context in life.
I had a good time with salsa dancing. It's a good way to meet girls, requires some actual skill (that can be learned with some effort), is fun in any case, and... dancing can tell you a lot about someone in a surprisingly short period of time.
A year of boxing worked for me. The experience of being in the ring, seeing his eyes while he's trying to punch your face, works wonders. You become peaceful and confident in everyday interactions.
Singing and playing guitar helps too, it makes you wanted and welcome, which you want to be.
A non-trivial fact for me was that a lot of conversations aren't about information; talking is a game, played for fun. Read "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", watch "Pulp Fiction", and try to do the same.
Find a fellow nerd and go to events together. Make it a project to encourage each other; that is, if I don't muster up the courage to meet someone and start a conversation, then you get a demerit. It's almost uncanny how we will find a way to succeed given a limited scope, easily defined problem.
Once you get into the swing of things, instinct takes over and you'll be fine. You probably have something interesting to discuss with almost everyone else out there. The trick is finding it.
I don't buy into the philosphy of learning about popular culture, sports, or current events just to have something to talk about. Stick with what turns you on; you can be yourself (who else would you be?), and the same thing probably turns someone else on, too.
(Aside: A drink or two couldn't hurt. That's what it's there for.)
I'm with you on taking a buddy - nothing like the spirit of competition to get you over the line.
Tech events are great too - barcamps, meetups etc. You'd be surprised at exactly how many hackers don't just defy the monosyllabic geek stereotype, but smash it out of the park.
We used to play a game in bars and other places, one friend picks a random person and you need to hold that persons attention for X minutes of conversation. Fail to do it and the next round is on you.
Iterate until you are comfortable with it, and can leave your wallet at home.
Consider attending a political event. You'll be surrounded by only the socially adept who will all be forced to at least talk to you momentarily. Watch as they work a room. A relatively cheap donation will get you invited. Consider it a training fee. You'll learn more about power and interpersonal relationships in a night than a month of sitting by yourself at the bar.
btw - I second that this is a skill that does not come from books. It requires real effort on your part.
Also, go to programmer meetups. It will be many people that you can empathize with. You'll have a lot in common with the crowd an it is a good way to start.
I don't know. I shut down around the more social, outgoing people. It's partially a vicious regression of awkward self consciousness, and feeling ashamed about said self consciousness.
The other part is dreadful boredom, which I know sounds way arrogant, but I'm not saying I'm bored because I think I'm better (though that's part of it). I also seem to lack something, not sure what. I've heard about people with small souls and no chests, and I think that's me.
Well, remember Paris Hilton's advice: to appear to be interesting, say as little as possible. So maybe you have the wrong perception of yourself, and appear more interesting to the social outgoing people than you realise - without jumping through hoops.
One thing most geeks have in common is the ability to process information. Most of us don't have great social skills because we don't participate in social events but even more so we don't pay attention when we're in these situations. When you're in social group, push aside your latest paradigm and actually watch what other people are doing, its easy to pick out the people with the best interpersonal abilities. Watch them but don't mimic, instead find similarities in yourself (your interpersonal muscles) and then start working them out. Walk up to people and introduce yourself. Its hard at first but eventually it'll come naturally.
If you are a programmer and strongly left-brained (not always the same thing), I'd suggest tricking yourself into thinking you have a logical approach to interpersonal relationships and then going to social gatherings quickly before you over-analyze.
Step 1 - Read most of http://www.amazon.com/Nlp-21-Days-Harry-Alder/dp/0749920300/... - this is NOT a good scientific book, but it seems to be good at convincing you to step outside your comfort zone. Optionally, skip this step and do sit-ups and push-ups instead which will make you feel more confident and comes with a low price tag.
Step 2 - Practice on an opposite-gendered friend whom you have no romantic interest in. If such a person does not exist, skip this step.
Step 3 - Attend social events. These are easy to find: book groups, local music, free martial arts class. Talk to people with no intent to "hook up" or even make friends. And I don't mean "tell yourself you're not interested so you'll have a better shot." I mean just talk to them. Ask something about the event. Ask what time it is (don't wear a watch or carry a cell phone). You don't have to have a conversation. You just have to communicate. Likewise, anytime you eat at a restaurant require yourself to compliment at least one employee while you are there.
Step 4 - Rinse and repeat until you realize you're enjoying all of the events and you talk to random people with more ease. As some of the comments have said, you can have great conversations talking about silly stuff that you don't care about if you enjoy the process of facilitating a good conversation.
Tips:
Don't drink unless you know your limit and have a pre-established track record for staying under your limit. Otherwise, you will end up undoing all confidence building when you get hammered and embarrass yourself once.
Avoid drunk people. They are a pain in the ass and will spill things on you. Both of these tips are easy to stick to if you don't go where people are drinking.
I suspect you're right about the analytical approach causing me problems. But, I've had a lot of "step out of your comfort zone" type advice throughout my life. I've done this, but I guess I'm not persistent enough. At any rate, I'd like another approach if possible.
Shyness is self-perpetuating. So start small, by doing something as simple as saying hi to people in an elevator (btw, elevators are a great place to talk to people, because they can't avoid you).
When you go to social events, go with a friend and make it a friendly competition to see who can meet the most interesting people.
Volunteer to do as many public speaking things as you can. And just generally force yourself out of your comfort zone. Reading won't get you very far, it's just practice practice practice.
Just be a decent person - if you're at an event and talking to someone and another person is hovering near by, bring them into your conversation. Be friendly, try and help people etc
Start by pretending to be genuinely interested in other people's lives, and their problems. If you pretend this for long enough, you'll find yourself actually feeling that way. And then you'll enjoy being around people, because they'll enjoy being around you.
I'm not sure you have to pretend at all. Try to realize that everyone and everything has a story and that it's often interesting to find out what it is.
Some people and things are more interesting than others of course. Learning how to gracefully exit a conversation is step #2.
I agree with you - I didn't mean to sound overly cynical. Although I find that I do have to pretend when I'm dealing with people who are initially rude or hostile to me. And I don't always succeed at pretending :-). But I can when I'm at my best. And over time, I can begin to genuinely appreciate their stories, too.
I went with my friend to the convenience store on the weekend. He spent a couple of minutes chatting with the clerk behind the counter while I watched. It seemed like the most natural thing in the world.
He later told me that he didn't feel at all comfortable during the conversation. He said that he has been trying to "bust out of his geeky shell" by talking to random people. To me it looked like he was just a friendly guy chatting with a stranger.
Moral of the story: just do it. It will probably feel weird but you are the only person who will notice.
Introverted people need to break out of their shell and 'just do things'. This applies to pretty much everything. If you fail, try, try again and you will eventually succeed whether you want to be able to socialize with people or learn a new language or whatever it is that you truly desire.
Introverts do not have a shell that needs breaking. We're not (necessarily) antisocial. We don't refrain from 'doing things'.
We just don't get energized from being around people. This doesn't mean we can't or don't. Like any aspect of temperament, it's mostly immutable: even a socially adept introvert (which I like to think I am) is still an introvert.
Wikipedia puts it well: "Introversion is not the same as shyness, though introverts may also be shy. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people avoid social encounters out of fear."
"Moral of the story: just do it. It will probably feel weird but you are the only person who will notice."
While this advice is, of course, true, it's also pretty common for introverts without a lot of social experience to not notice when they're making someone uncomfortable. So, starting conversations is a great way to get over the fear of them, ending them in a reasonable time frame is a great way to insure you aren't crossing the boundary into uncomfortable (for the other person...I know that the introvert is going to be uncomfortable throughout the exchange, as I'm an introvert myself, and so the cues that may be obvious to most folks aren't as obvious to an introvert...insert boiling frog analogy here).
I agree with this. My biggest fear up to last year was public speaking. No matter what format it was, I just hated being in front of people. Then one day, I decided I wasn't going to suck at it anymore and I started to seek out opportunities to present, and I slowly got better. It is still pretty terrifying, but usually I'm the only one who notices.
Oh you said besides that...well practice what it preaches. Us folk (geeks/nerds/hackers) tend to like to show how much we know about a subject. Some old dude is talking about how his phone can now surf the web...what do you say? Act a bit surprised and ask him a bit more about the subject. Let HIM show what he knows, and get that little feeling of self-importance. Don't squash it by saying you could ssh in to work on your phone 5 years ago and that his phone is garbage.
Also practice, and have someone judge your performance. There are a zillion things to improve on here, it is a difficult art to master. I would also say it is a long road that I wouldn't be satisfied in saying I know well until I can sit in a room with anyone at anytime and befriend them and/or convince them they want to reconnect with me again shortly.
One last thing, I have the most difficulty talking to people I know well and respect. For example, I was recently discussing business and my goals with an old co-worker I really respected, and I found myself a bit flustered. Anyone else experienced this and/or have any suggestions?
But I think the key points are suited to all interactions. If you are first meeting someone...and I don't know how to phrase this to be politically correct...you are 'intimately' interested in, perhaps telling them about your magic card collection isn't the best approach. You could discuss his/her Starcraft skills instead :)
Boy, yeah, I have that problem. In my undergrad, there was a teacher I really respected, and I really wanted to get to know him, but I always felt like such a waste of his time. Happens with most older guys I really respect who don't go out of their way to befriend me.
However, if it's a matter of professional self interest, there's no problem. I'm quite bold going up and talking to people very senior in rank.
The most effective way I know of is the giving of ourselves. I don't mean in the passionate sense, but
more as a form of empathy, as a spiritual generosity.
For instance, try responding to people as if they were your brother or sister instead of a stranger, with candid good will; usually they'll respond in kind. If someone does something you like, tell them - nothing gushy, just let them know in a direct and quietly thankful way.
Let someone in a hurry go ahead of you in a queue, let them overtake you when you're driving, thank the bank teller or the shop assistant. All these things are so small, but they all add up, and from each act there will be a corresponding positive effect within you.
The giving of yourselves in this way has an immediate and positive effect on the mind/body. Try to be aware of how it feels as you do all of these things. You will feel your whole mind/body loosening up, a feeling of lightness that can't be achieved in any other way.
3) work on either improving the improvable problems, or working around the unimprovable ones.
it would really help to have a friend looking on from the outside to help note problems. you have to be really open to change to make this work, though.
IGNORE every advice out there including this, but do learn to LISTEN without jumping to conclusions - ironically, nature works in such a way that a good listener is considered exponentially nice already :) Oh, one more thing, if you learn about yourself, you are social already, for everyone else out there has the same social "adept"ability concerns - so take it easy on them and you are on your way to being a socialite (in the good sense of the word, not the crazy paparazzi); so, only if you find yourself truly, i.e. that listening is important, then the real learning takes place and fear burns away.
Read a book on Typewatching/MBTI. I've found it's much easier to relate to people when I understand the differences between their personalities and my own.
Come on, this isn't about hacking people." Forget the X minutes, forget the competition, and just get out for face time with people.
Go to events that you're actually interested in (talking to someone with similar interests is stacking the deck), join a club or society in the same vein. When you've got a free night, check out the local calendar. Whatever you do, just get in the habit of going out, going out, going out! Don't prepare, read up for tips, construct elaborate plans...just go out. Most people are out for the same reason as you. Culley says it best when he says you can't find this in a book. It takes effort.
And remember: the worst thing that can happen is you stay inside and nothing happens.
Yeah, I've tried this to some extent, and I'm no social recluse. Right now my main source of socialization is attending a church service with people my age (who aren't a bunch of cloistered preacher kids). I do this at least once every weekend. I also meet with an older couple, interact with classmates and teachers, etc. I've also tried going clubbing with groups of people, but the clubs depress me. I seem to be able to get along great with people outside my peer group (i.e. older and younger who don't see me as equal), but I strike out with anyone my age.
From my own experience: It may seem crazy, but try this.
Climb down your geek tower and stop judging people (you may be judging people without even knowing it), then will come respect for people.
When you respect anyone around, you will gradually find interest in them; That will help break the ice, conversation will come easy and you’ll found out that people are much interesting than you think.
I couldn't agree more. During Y Combinator, there were two guys sitting behind me. They said something along the lines of "Not to be sterotypical but I am suspicious of any girls here. They're probably just project managers and not really hackers."
Not a very "social" tactical move to do when there were about two girls around the area who heard his comment and some hackers wonder why girls don't talk to them.
And, of course, they were wrong (and had they actually talked to some of the girls, they would have known that). I met one young woman who is a CompSci major and has built and sold a Facebook app. I'd give good odds that she'll out-hack and out-earn those two fellows by an order of magnitude in her lifetime. It's a small sample size, and I didn't meet any other women that I didn't previously know from YC, but 100% of the women (er, woman) I met at Startup School were hackers.
105 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 180 ms ] threadSinging and playing guitar helps too, it makes you wanted and welcome, which you want to be.
A non-trivial fact for me was that a lot of conversations aren't about information; talking is a game, played for fun. Read "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", watch "Pulp Fiction", and try to do the same.
Once you get into the swing of things, instinct takes over and you'll be fine. You probably have something interesting to discuss with almost everyone else out there. The trick is finding it.
I don't buy into the philosphy of learning about popular culture, sports, or current events just to have something to talk about. Stick with what turns you on; you can be yourself (who else would you be?), and the same thing probably turns someone else on, too.
(Aside: A drink or two couldn't hurt. That's what it's there for.)
Tech events are great too - barcamps, meetups etc. You'd be surprised at exactly how many hackers don't just defy the monosyllabic geek stereotype, but smash it out of the park.
Iterate until you are comfortable with it, and can leave your wallet at home.
btw - I second that this is a skill that does not come from books. It requires real effort on your part.
Also, go to programmer meetups. It will be many people that you can empathize with. You'll have a lot in common with the crowd an it is a good way to start.
The other part is dreadful boredom, which I know sounds way arrogant, but I'm not saying I'm bored because I think I'm better (though that's part of it). I also seem to lack something, not sure what. I've heard about people with small souls and no chests, and I think that's me.
The best way to find out what works is to try. Just go out there and interact with people. Observe them to see how you are doing.
B) Listening. Speaking is an important part of socializing, but it's a minor part.
Step 1 - Read most of http://www.amazon.com/Nlp-21-Days-Harry-Alder/dp/0749920300/... - this is NOT a good scientific book, but it seems to be good at convincing you to step outside your comfort zone. Optionally, skip this step and do sit-ups and push-ups instead which will make you feel more confident and comes with a low price tag.
Step 2 - Practice on an opposite-gendered friend whom you have no romantic interest in. If such a person does not exist, skip this step.
Step 3 - Attend social events. These are easy to find: book groups, local music, free martial arts class. Talk to people with no intent to "hook up" or even make friends. And I don't mean "tell yourself you're not interested so you'll have a better shot." I mean just talk to them. Ask something about the event. Ask what time it is (don't wear a watch or carry a cell phone). You don't have to have a conversation. You just have to communicate. Likewise, anytime you eat at a restaurant require yourself to compliment at least one employee while you are there.
Step 4 - Rinse and repeat until you realize you're enjoying all of the events and you talk to random people with more ease. As some of the comments have said, you can have great conversations talking about silly stuff that you don't care about if you enjoy the process of facilitating a good conversation.
Tips:
Don't drink unless you know your limit and have a pre-established track record for staying under your limit. Otherwise, you will end up undoing all confidence building when you get hammered and embarrass yourself once.
Avoid drunk people. They are a pain in the ass and will spill things on you. Both of these tips are easy to stick to if you don't go where people are drinking.
When you go to social events, go with a friend and make it a friendly competition to see who can meet the most interesting people.
Volunteer to do as many public speaking things as you can. And just generally force yourself out of your comfort zone. Reading won't get you very far, it's just practice practice practice.
Some people and things are more interesting than others of course. Learning how to gracefully exit a conversation is step #2.
He later told me that he didn't feel at all comfortable during the conversation. He said that he has been trying to "bust out of his geeky shell" by talking to random people. To me it looked like he was just a friendly guy chatting with a stranger.
Moral of the story: just do it. It will probably feel weird but you are the only person who will notice.
We just don't get energized from being around people. This doesn't mean we can't or don't. Like any aspect of temperament, it's mostly immutable: even a socially adept introvert (which I like to think I am) is still an introvert.
Wikipedia puts it well: "Introversion is not the same as shyness, though introverts may also be shy. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people avoid social encounters out of fear."
While this advice is, of course, true, it's also pretty common for introverts without a lot of social experience to not notice when they're making someone uncomfortable. So, starting conversations is a great way to get over the fear of them, ending them in a reasonable time frame is a great way to insure you aren't crossing the boundary into uncomfortable (for the other person...I know that the introvert is going to be uncomfortable throughout the exchange, as I'm an introvert myself, and so the cues that may be obvious to most folks aren't as obvious to an introvert...insert boiling frog analogy here).
Oh you said besides that...well practice what it preaches. Us folk (geeks/nerds/hackers) tend to like to show how much we know about a subject. Some old dude is talking about how his phone can now surf the web...what do you say? Act a bit surprised and ask him a bit more about the subject. Let HIM show what he knows, and get that little feeling of self-importance. Don't squash it by saying you could ssh in to work on your phone 5 years ago and that his phone is garbage.
Also practice, and have someone judge your performance. There are a zillion things to improve on here, it is a difficult art to master. I would also say it is a long road that I wouldn't be satisfied in saying I know well until I can sit in a room with anyone at anytime and befriend them and/or convince them they want to reconnect with me again shortly.
One last thing, I have the most difficulty talking to people I know well and respect. For example, I was recently discussing business and my goals with an old co-worker I really respected, and I found myself a bit flustered. Anyone else experienced this and/or have any suggestions?
But I think the key points are suited to all interactions. If you are first meeting someone...and I don't know how to phrase this to be politically correct...you are 'intimately' interested in, perhaps telling them about your magic card collection isn't the best approach. You could discuss his/her Starcraft skills instead :)
However, if it's a matter of professional self interest, there's no problem. I'm quite bold going up and talking to people very senior in rank.
The most effective way I know of is the giving of ourselves. I don't mean in the passionate sense, but more as a form of empathy, as a spiritual generosity.
For instance, try responding to people as if they were your brother or sister instead of a stranger, with candid good will; usually they'll respond in kind. If someone does something you like, tell them - nothing gushy, just let them know in a direct and quietly thankful way.
Let someone in a hurry go ahead of you in a queue, let them overtake you when you're driving, thank the bank teller or the shop assistant. All these things are so small, but they all add up, and from each act there will be a corresponding positive effect within you.
The giving of yourselves in this way has an immediate and positive effect on the mind/body. Try to be aware of how it feels as you do all of these things. You will feel your whole mind/body loosening up, a feeling of lightness that can't be achieved in any other way.
1) practice a lot
2) recognize/record your problems/faults/issues.
3) work on either improving the improvable problems, or working around the unimprovable ones.
it would really help to have a friend looking on from the outside to help note problems. you have to be really open to change to make this work, though.
Go to events that you're actually interested in (talking to someone with similar interests is stacking the deck), join a club or society in the same vein. When you've got a free night, check out the local calendar. Whatever you do, just get in the habit of going out, going out, going out! Don't prepare, read up for tips, construct elaborate plans...just go out. Most people are out for the same reason as you. Culley says it best when he says you can't find this in a book. It takes effort.
And remember: the worst thing that can happen is you stay inside and nothing happens.
So, I'd say find someone who's really good at socializing and hang out with him. 1000x better and faster than any book or doing it on your own.
Climb down your geek tower and stop judging people (you may be judging people without even knowing it), then will come respect for people.
When you respect anyone around, you will gradually find interest in them; That will help break the ice, conversation will come easy and you’ll found out that people are much interesting than you think.
Not a very "social" tactical move to do when there were about two girls around the area who heard his comment and some hackers wonder why girls don't talk to them.
ok, just kidding. But in some "Tech parties" you always seem some of them and it is very easy to spot the Gold Digging types.