According to their blog, they are adding new tools for institutional traders:
> Over the course of the year we intend to offer lending and margin financing products to qualified clients, high touch and low touch execution services like over-the-counter (OTC) trading and algorithmic orders, and new market data and research products
In all seriousness, the attention from institutions, growing maturity of custodial solutions and good monetary policy are colliding. Nocoiners, watch out!
Probably! My biggest issue with all this crypt hoo-ha is that the pigs from Wall Street who know a great scam when the see one went into cryptos with both feet. What does that tell you?
They're going to give new tools to institutional traders. Co-location, FIX market data, lending & margin financing products, professional crypto secure storage ('coinbase custody') etc. etc. They'll be faster than non-institutions and have trading options unavailable to the rest of us.
Right now, the institutions have to play on a level playing field with us one-man teams.
This suite of products will give them their pay-to-win advantages to keep us little guys from being the fastest and best in the market.
I have the fastest bot on GDAX right now, that will only last until these new services are introduced -- since I can't afford to pay $XXk a month for the privilege.
Edit: If you're reading this from your chair at a HFT firm, send me a message if your company is interested in the fastest bot :)
You think so? Due to inflation, I think the bar for "accredited investor" feels pretty low these days. HN must be full of middle class individuals with $1M+ USD networth.
>>HN must be full of middle class individuals with $1M+ USD networth.
For the HN demographic that doesn't own a house and "only" pays rent, I'd agree with you. But another portion of the HN demographic that does own a flat or property may not qualify, as the definition of an accredited investor (at least in the US[1]) is $1M+ USD of investible assets excluding their primary residence.
Some of this demographic will meet the other (income) test:
a natural person with income exceeding $200,000 in each of the two most recent years or joint income with a spouse exceeding $300,000 for those years and a reasonable expectation of the same income level in the current year
IMO, the SEC accredited investor rules are in place to make it a federal crime to scam non-accredited investors. Though I tend to be anti-regulation in general, I think these are good laws as I can only imagine how many investment scams would be running otherwise.
They make it a federal crime to offer securities to non-wealthy people. Characterizing all such offers as scams is a prejudicial over-simplification, and the kind of sweeping and presumptive generalization that rationalizes repression.
No, they made it a federal crime to offer non-registered securities to non-wealthy people.
Registered securities (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.) are widely available to non-wealthy people and are probably a better investment for most of them, frankly, because of the concentration of risk inherent in a small dollar portfolio of non-registered securities and the idea that registered securities will have some standardized reporting requirements and that one could rely on the market to do a certain amount of due diligence and price discovery.
Non-registered securities are those that are issued by any company not worth over something on the order of $100 million, since any company smaller than that cannot afford to get their securities registered.
Anyway, this distinction doesn't change my point: offers of such securities to unaccredited investors are not categorically "scams". This kind of critical reductionism is reckless to individual rights and liberty.
Companies can get registered fairly cheaply; a company with almost no assets or value could do it.
The expense comes from meeting the requirements to be registered on a large exchange like NYSE or NASDAQ (both of which are non-governmental entities). This is why small companies that have public stock are traded on "penny" exchanges.
In any case, I don't see any mom and pop shops offering their customers stock. There are only 10,000 companies with stock on the OTC market, out of 30 million in the US.
I think you are being uncharitable to the point they made. Since there are accredited investors, if a bad guy tries to talk an un-accredited investor into buying into a dressed up Ponzi scheme it is a federal crime and thus can be investigated and treated as such. The goal of this is to keep main street investors safe. Yes, it does put some limits on individual freedom but I think this is one area where the trade-offs has been chosen decently well.
Nothing stops an unaccredited investor betting the farm on Enron. If there is a less perceived risk, people will use more leverage. So all of this "protection" just amounts to restricted opportunity.
Several people went to federal prison and Arthur Anderson went out of business over the Enron shenanigans. This seems as much a deterrent as the Securites Act of 1934. If you’re willing to risk federal prison, you can solicit non-accredited investors for unregistered securities.
No, anyone that offers an unregistered security to a non-wealthy (unaccredited) investor is committing a federal crime. It's disingenuous to ignore the full scope of the law, by not mentioning how it criminalizes certain classes of victimless interaction.
>>Yes, it does put some limits on individual freedom but I think this is one area where the trade-offs has been chosen decently well.
This is Big Brother ideology. No one in a free society should have their freedom restricted.
The practical results of this paternalism have been disastrous too, so it can't be justified on consequentialist grounds. Practically all small businesses are denied direct access to public capital markets atm.
That's probably trillions in lost economic gains and potentially a massive contributor to income inequality.
When you create gatekeepers, and prohibit anyone from transacting without their intermediation, you create a concentrated power structure that inhibits economic development and exacerbates income inequality.
The new crowdfunding rules are a tiny step in reversing this dire situation, but the real solution is to stop treating the adult population like children that need to be protected from their own bad judgment.
The regulated financial sector is incredibly concentrated, and often it became regulated as a result of lobbying by large financial firms. New York's Bitlicense for example was lobbied for by banks and it resulted in all but the largest cryptocurrency firms exiting New York.
If you really do HFT trading I'd be more curious to know whether your algorithms can scale up and remain profitable with more exposure. If that were the case acquiring more capital shouldn't really be an issue for you.
Hi, I've been into bitcoin since 2011, I got capital and I'm interested to talk, can you please add your email address to your profile? This way I'll be able to email you maybe we can help each other out:)
Get your track record audited and then shop yourself to Chicago prop firms. If things look robust, you should have no problem getting capital on a profit split.
It would seem that anyone who could consistently arbitrage a currency OR synthetically front run transactions would be able to capture a great deal of value extremely quickly. Further, they should have an easily identifiable and intelligible record of success. Have a pitch deck ready if you don't already.
Either one should either generate the capital you need, get your system bought by a big player, or get you hired with a big salary by a big player.
Bold claim, and funnily enough, you are the 3rd or 4th team I've run into this week that claim to be the fastest trading system on GDAX. The Consensus conference brings out these kind of conversations:)
What are you basing your claim off of, I've seen some pretty impressive use of C++ and one team that is starting to burn simple strategies into FPGA's.
What sort of time from network stack to network stack are you consistently getting? ie time from when your network card receives a message until when your network card gets your reply?
> What are you basing your claim off of, I've seen some pretty impressive use of C++ and one team that is starting to burn simple strategies into FPGA's.
What does low latency buy you in crypto trading? What sort of strategies are people running that requires low latency?
You mean Exchange Arbitrage? There's already a 20 something kid doing this and claims to be making millions in profits.[1]. Asian exchanges typically have slightly higher prices than US and European exchanges. They also react a lot worse to bad news and go lower than in US, European exchanges.
I'm tracking order positions with an in memory orderbook. When gdax accepts my order I know where I end up. I average spot 1.45 when the spread changes. It's hard to get closer to perfect 1.00 because of limit taker orders which, if placed right, always get 1.00 after the taker portion is calculated and the maker is placed 1 cent from other other side.
These posts kill me. Anyone who says they are burning strategies onto fpgas when they trade with GDAX has no idea what they or doing or talking about. The platforms are way too immature for this to matter. Source, was in real HFT for 10+ years.
Sure you do. A particular cryptotoken’s network transaction through-put is unrelated to the latency and max-events-per-time period of on-exchange trading.
"Little guys" are the products, rather than the consumers, on those platforms. This is already true to a large extent and will be true in larger and larger proportions. DRW, Jump Trading, Hudson River Trading, State Street and Virtu are all active on cryptomarkets.
I started with 5-7k. I primarily hold, sell when the price is high and then buy the dip.
I once made 30k from 400$. It's ridiculous. I bought 400$ worth of BTC a year or two ago. BTC price went up. At that point I had ~3000$. I sold BTC and bought IOTA. IOTA was pumped, I sold it for $10,000. I went all in and bought Ripple at 0.94$. They pumped the price, I was able to sell at 3$, making a whopping $30k+.
Here's a thought: a trader who has to rely on being the fastest is like a retailer who has to rely on being the cheapest. (Not to diss you, you have nothing but respect from me)
As long as there is not a large crash currently happening, their service works pretty well. Generally, once your funds are dropped in Coinbase, you can transfer to GDAX, purchase what you want, then immediately transfer to a wallet or another exchange within minutes.
They have developed a reputation for having poor, unresponsive consumer support. Try doing a twitter search for @coinbasesupport. At any given time, it's a horror show.
I personally discovered this after a time sensitive transaction took about 48 hours to complete because of a buggy deploy on their end. The only reason it didn't take longer was because I was able to track down a coinbase support employee on the bitcoin reddit.
So this seems to be a pattern. The link that I posted elsewhere in this thread and the occurrence there was precisely because of poor support. (Again, I'm not affiliated with that guy in any way)
Official Coinbase support is non existent in my experience. There are people on the Coinbase Reddit page https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/ who seem to be able to move things along if you aren't getting any support from Coinbase.
Wash trading makes valuating the market on volume alone harder to do and therefore increases novel activity in the market, making old algo's obsolete and decreasing risk temporarily until the wash trading strategy is identified and made unprofitable.
I think Gemini was the first in NY to launch institutional features back in late 2016[1], including the hallowed custodial service. My understanding is that without a qualified custodian[2][3], hedge funds with assets under management greater than $150M were unable to invest in said securities because they need(ed) a qualified custodian beyond this limit.
The GDAX servers are hosted on AWS. Us-East-1 if i remember correctly. This allows anyone to have basically free colocation. So not sure why they give colocation as a selling point here
It's an interesting idea. I guess is an institution is going to take on crypto exposure they'll need all the trimmings including real-time market data in order to properly manage their exposure. But beyond the basic risk management... there's not much actual trading going on, is there? What drives the need for low latency? The crypto space has fewer assets than the actual real-currency FOREX market and it's not driven by real economic data, right? The only real "strategy" is momentum trading, right? It's just not clear what low-latency is buying you here.
Lower latencies would help any market makers that change bid/offer quotes more quickly when say the price of bitcoin changes on a different exchange, or the FX price changes in the quoted base currency.
I think the good thing about the crypto currency trading world is that everyone have more or less the same access as everyone else on the current exchanges (at least on GDAX).
It would be great with more exchanges to fill the gap between the exchanges that wants to be 'traditional' (GDAX) and the ones who cannot be trusted (Maybe Bitfinex?)
I'm so glad the currency is decentralized so that the existing powers don't have undue influence over monitary policy and the value of the currency I hold. Oh....wait...right...greed wins again.
You can distribute the nodes all you want, as long as the currency can be traded on a financial swap system, it will be nothing more than another commodity.
Coinbase is basically nothing and continuing to decline in relevance in the crypto market. The idea that they’re capable of providing a higher level of service when they failed miserably at what they do now is amusing.
100 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 22.3 ms ] thread> Over the course of the year we intend to offer lending and margin financing products to qualified clients, high touch and low touch execution services like over-the-counter (OTC) trading and algorithmic orders, and new market data and research products
https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-institutional-deea317d23a...
They are getting lower latency, secure storage and new trading products -- only available to Institutions.
In all seriousness, the attention from institutions, growing maturity of custodial solutions and good monetary policy are colliding. Nocoiners, watch out!
Read this https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-institutional-deea317d23a...
Right now, the institutions have to play on a level playing field with us one-man teams.
This suite of products will give them their pay-to-win advantages to keep us little guys from being the fastest and best in the market.
I have the fastest bot on GDAX right now, that will only last until these new services are introduced -- since I can't afford to pay $XXk a month for the privilege.
Edit: If you're reading this from your chair at a HFT firm, send me a message if your company is interested in the fastest bot :)
For the HN demographic that doesn't own a house and "only" pays rent, I'd agree with you. But another portion of the HN demographic that does own a flat or property may not qualify, as the definition of an accredited investor (at least in the US[1]) is $1M+ USD of investible assets excluding their primary residence.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accredited_investor#United_Sta...
a natural person with income exceeding $200,000 in each of the two most recent years or joint income with a spouse exceeding $300,000 for those years and a reasonable expectation of the same income level in the current year
Registered securities (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.) are widely available to non-wealthy people and are probably a better investment for most of them, frankly, because of the concentration of risk inherent in a small dollar portfolio of non-registered securities and the idea that registered securities will have some standardized reporting requirements and that one could rely on the market to do a certain amount of due diligence and price discovery.
Anyway, this distinction doesn't change my point: offers of such securities to unaccredited investors are not categorically "scams". This kind of critical reductionism is reckless to individual rights and liberty.
The expense comes from meeting the requirements to be registered on a large exchange like NYSE or NASDAQ (both of which are non-governmental entities). This is why small companies that have public stock are traded on "penny" exchanges.
In any case, I don't see any mom and pop shops offering their customers stock. There are only 10,000 companies with stock on the OTC market, out of 30 million in the US.
>>Yes, it does put some limits on individual freedom but I think this is one area where the trade-offs has been chosen decently well.
This is Big Brother ideology. No one in a free society should have their freedom restricted.
The practical results of this paternalism have been disastrous too, so it can't be justified on consequentialist grounds. Practically all small businesses are denied direct access to public capital markets atm.
That's probably trillions in lost economic gains and potentially a massive contributor to income inequality.
When you create gatekeepers, and prohibit anyone from transacting without their intermediation, you create a concentrated power structure that inhibits economic development and exacerbates income inequality.
The new crowdfunding rules are a tiny step in reversing this dire situation, but the real solution is to stop treating the adult population like children that need to be protected from their own bad judgment.
Not at hft but also ran a fast bot.
I'm interested in talking with you
I'm currently running a bot on GDAX
I'm interested in talking with you
Thanks!
Either one should either generate the capital you need, get your system bought by a big player, or get you hired with a big salary by a big player.
Let us know how it turns out!
What are you basing your claim off of, I've seen some pretty impressive use of C++ and one team that is starting to burn simple strategies into FPGA's.
What sort of time from network stack to network stack are you consistently getting? ie time from when your network card receives a message until when your network card gets your reply?
That's a standard HFT measurement.
What does low latency buy you in crypto trading? What sort of strategies are people running that requires low latency?
[1] Source: Stefan Qin, Virgil Capital founder on CNBC - https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/02/27/one-hedge-fund-manager...
I'm tracking order positions with an in memory orderbook. When gdax accepts my order I know where I end up. I average spot 1.45 when the spread changes. It's hard to get closer to perfect 1.00 because of limit taker orders which, if placed right, always get 1.00 after the taker portion is calculated and the maker is placed 1 cent from other other side.
Yes, but you still didn't address the question of what are you basing your claim of being the fastest off of.
In fact Hudson River Trading is in bed with Blockstream: http://chaincode.com/#team
Very sad to witness.
Do you trade full time?
I once made 30k from 400$. It's ridiculous. I bought 400$ worth of BTC a year or two ago. BTC price went up. At that point I had ~3000$. I sold BTC and bought IOTA. IOTA was pumped, I sold it for $10,000. I went all in and bought Ripple at 0.94$. They pumped the price, I was able to sell at 3$, making a whopping $30k+.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E7FSs6oXak
(I'm not the show host, I just enjoy the show)
So I'm wondering why you would ask such a question?
I personally discovered this after a time sensitive transaction took about 48 hours to complete because of a buggy deploy on their end. The only reason it didn't take longer was because I was able to track down a coinbase support employee on the bitcoin reddit.
I ended up making a couple bucks off the deal. But I can't help but think how badly it could have gone.
Wash trading did nothing wrong.
[1] https://medium.com/gemini/gemini-licensed-custodial-services...
[2] https://www.sec.gov/rules/final/ia-2176.htm
[3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crypto-currencies-funds/l...
Surely they load balance across AZs though so results may change...
You can distribute the nodes all you want, as long as the currency can be traded on a financial swap system, it will be nothing more than another commodity.