HN Explorer

Dev work contract with worrying clauses applicable after contract ends

3 points by enachtry ↗ HN
Today I found about a worrying clause presented to an acquaintance in his new job contract as a developer. I've had a stable job for a few years so I assume I'm out of the loop and would like to know how common this is.

The clause is that for a few years after employment ends, the developer is supposed to submit to his former employer all his new "inventions" (i.e. I read that as anything newly created that is of any consequence) so that this employer can unilaterally decide if the inventions are actually rightfully his as a consequence of providing the developer with the opportunity to gather work experience and know-how.

This is for a company in the EU, for a mainstream development job with a small company (less than 20 devs).

I was aware of confidentiality agreements that extend beyond the period of employment but I've never seen something like this. Have you?

8 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 34.3 ms ] thread
imhoguy
This clause is abusive and I think is illegal in EU. Better consult an employment lawyer. I would ask to remove this clause or turn down the offer.
enachtry
It is abusive and largely illegal but that's irrelevant. Once you sign something like this, even a small company has enough resources to harass you with lawsuits that you might win after a few years but by then your life is mutilated.

What they gain with such threats is control over you with an installment of fear to ask for a raise or do anything that separates you from the company because that clause makes you unemployable for X years while it's active. The former employer (O) just needs to check your LinkedIn profile and send a notice to the new employer (N) that everything you write for N must be submitted to O so it can unilaterally decide if it actually belongs to them. It's absurd but I can believe companies try this because they have nothing to lose.

He refused the offer but I would like to know how common such a clause is, this is why I ask. Until now, I haven't thought about how careful you have to be when signing what one could assume is an absolutely benign and common work contract.

imhoguy
Depends on EU country of course, but any court can invalidate such clause or even entire signed employment contract without much effort, especially in such highly unilateral uncompensated unbounded case.

I am sure refusing the contract is tough decision for some but I think in a long term it is a wise move. Companies with such shaddy tactics usually are quite bad toxic places to work in and lack any reputation. Just check some other non-compete/confidentiality clause threads here in HN. You will find similar experiences.

From my experience it is extremely rare situation in EU nowadays, but I may be biased as I work with reputable companies from my network recomendations.

hguhghuff
Just name the company and post an image of the clause on a LinkedIn post and the company will quickly and publicly remove it.
joezydeco
If you want to read some previous discussion on a nearly similar topic (it happened to me), go here. Some EU devs also chime in about their experiences:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16637900

(spoiler: I didn't take the job)

enachtry
Holly @W$%! This is exactly what I was looking for :) THANK YOU!
joezydeco
My discussion was for a full-time employment agreement in the USA, but hopefully some of it will carry over.
chrisbennet
Contracts may be full of crazy over reaching stuff. When faced with a contract like this, you ask if you can modify it. If they say, “Take it or leave it.” you turn down the offer.

If they say yes, find a lawyer and get it looked over.

Sometimes you can just cross out stuff, modify or add stuff i.e. add a time limit to an open ended NDA, reduce the scope of a non-compete or eliminate it all together. After a while you get to know what to look for.

Once I was given a contract that stipulated that, if there were errors in my work product, I would be ”liable for estimated loss of profits”. (!!!)

I quoted the offending line and wrote: “Nice try but yeah, no.” I had my lawyer fix it and they were a great client.