I wonder about calls to violence as well (all genres.) For the sake of argument it would be interesting to see what percentage of this music is deprecating, along with artist popularity factored in perhaps year by year and by country. Seems like something Musicbrainz would be ideal for, no?
>If you want to claim it's patently absurd, you're going to have to make a case for it.
Make the case that hip-hop is more damaging than a statue of Robert E. Lee? Exactly how would anyone make such a case?
The answer is that no one can prove it one way or the other. That and the fact that the statement even suggests that's a debate we ought to be having is exactly what makes it absurd.
Both can be problems. How does an intractable debate about which is worse help anyone?
Watching what happened to Tupac seems to prove the point that rap and thug culture can be toxic. Prison could not have helped either.
He went from social activist rapper to rapper-gang member and it got him killed.
That doesn’t mean that it’s the music itself but the effect it has on the culture. And anyone arguing that music doesn’t affect culture is clearly wrong.
Movies do it too. A movie like “Zero Dark Thirty” that glorified torture is hurting the culture too. People in the military watch it and it changes their outlook for the worse.
It’s a hot button issue but that doesn’t mean your impulsive reaction is correct, just because you didn’t let the movie or music damage you directly.
I agree that American culture is the problem. The way we oppress black people every day and force them into these ugly situations where they're forced to choose between criminality and inhumanity, it's no wonder that this happened to Tupac and thousands of other black men.
To be fair, 2Pac went to a performing arts high school, was a poet and actor, and sold 75 million albums. Seems like he had a good chance at avoiding his fate.
Neil Degrasse Tyson had many these advantages too and American culture didn’t hold him back at all. Not that he didn’t face prejudice at all but it very clearly wasn’t a roadblock.
Eminem had no social advantages and he got caught up in the thug life that Tupac (specifically) inspired.
>I followed him while he was alive and know a ton about his life.
Then you should know better than most what's wrong with your statement.
But, it seems that you misunderstood much. Look more carefully and you might gain a new appreciation for a life that you currently seem to believe is most accurately summarized as a descent into some sort of thug darkness.
In the jazz community Marsalis' opinions are generally regarded as elitist and regressive and often times he will go on TV, radio etc trying to speak as the voice of a tradition that heavily disagrees with him.
Many of his peers and people who have played in his bands have been active participants in the hip hop community for decades.
If you look at what jazz as a method of social activism and a way to speak about the state of life in black america in the past century, thats really what hip hop is doing now.
Hip hop talks about drug use/violence etc because its whats happening in the communities that the music comes out of.
Jazz at its most important points in history was often fraught with musicians who were heavily addicted to drugs, abused woman, caught up in violence etc (just look up the issues some of the greats dealt with like Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, etc)
Hip hop and jazz are fundamentally two extremely similar traditions of music born out of the same realities of the black american experience and for Wynton to being making comments like this is extremely disappointing
Hip hop and rap music is one of the worst things that happened to culture. It appeals to most lowly desires and it's hedonism in music form. Track 1 of a rap CD can address how minorities are supposedly discriminated against yet Track 2 is filled with criminal intent and mysogyny. I am still in my twenties but I do not allow either my siblings nor myself to listen to it or I at least frown upon it.
You may say not all rap is this way but the truth is that most popular rap is this way.
So is he saying that all of rap/hip-hop is more damaging than a single statue of Robert E. Lee? If he is, then... well, okay, but that's not much of a statement. One statue, or one confederate flag, has only a limited ability to cause harm, versus taking all of the negatives from an entire, large, body of music.
On the other hand, it's also a useless comparison. Because there isn't just one statue of Lee. Comparing the damage from all of the confederate memorials, and confederate flags, and confederate holidays, and everything named after slave owners... well, suddenly that's not quite so clear a comparison. But a whole lot more relevant.
And then when you look at the opposites—what's the sum benefit from rap/hip-hop? And then compare that to the sum benefit of everything in this country that praises slave-owners—or those that killed Americans in defense of slave-owning—that's not even close anymore.
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[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 79.6 ms ] threadMake the case that hip-hop is more damaging than a statue of Robert E. Lee? Exactly how would anyone make such a case?
The answer is that no one can prove it one way or the other. That and the fact that the statement even suggests that's a debate we ought to be having is exactly what makes it absurd.
Both can be problems. How does an intractable debate about which is worse help anyone?
who had a few rappers, albeit not mainstream or crass ones
ps: branford
He went from social activist rapper to rapper-gang member and it got him killed.
That doesn’t mean that it’s the music itself but the effect it has on the culture. And anyone arguing that music doesn’t affect culture is clearly wrong.
Movies do it too. A movie like “Zero Dark Thirty” that glorified torture is hurting the culture too. People in the military watch it and it changes their outlook for the worse.
It’s a hot button issue but that doesn’t mean your impulsive reaction is correct, just because you didn’t let the movie or music damage you directly.
Eminem had no social advantages and he got caught up in the thug life that Tupac (specifically) inspired.
That is a painfully simplistic summary of Tupac's life story.
You really should dig a little deeper before making such proclamations.
Then you should know better than most what's wrong with your statement.
But, it seems that you misunderstood much. Look more carefully and you might gain a new appreciation for a life that you currently seem to believe is most accurately summarized as a descent into some sort of thug darkness.
Many of his peers and people who have played in his bands have been active participants in the hip hop community for decades.
If you look at what jazz as a method of social activism and a way to speak about the state of life in black america in the past century, thats really what hip hop is doing now.
Hip hop talks about drug use/violence etc because its whats happening in the communities that the music comes out of.
Jazz at its most important points in history was often fraught with musicians who were heavily addicted to drugs, abused woman, caught up in violence etc (just look up the issues some of the greats dealt with like Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, etc)
Hip hop and jazz are fundamentally two extremely similar traditions of music born out of the same realities of the black american experience and for Wynton to being making comments like this is extremely disappointing
You may say not all rap is this way but the truth is that most popular rap is this way.
That's correct.
>but the truth is that most popular rap is this way.
Why is this the case? I mean, doesn't it make you wonder whether it's the music or our culture overall that is the real problem?
On the other hand, it's also a useless comparison. Because there isn't just one statue of Lee. Comparing the damage from all of the confederate memorials, and confederate flags, and confederate holidays, and everything named after slave owners... well, suddenly that's not quite so clear a comparison. But a whole lot more relevant.
And then when you look at the opposites—what's the sum benefit from rap/hip-hop? And then compare that to the sum benefit of everything in this country that praises slave-owners—or those that killed Americans in defense of slave-owning—that's not even close anymore.
Rap and hip hop has sown a weaponized and debilitated mindset into the psyche of large segment's of American population.
Who promotes the rap culuture? Who Profits from the rap culture? What is their motive?
MTV 1980 Turner Network Comcast mockingbird
http://911truth.org/operation-mockingbird-legalized/