Ask HN: Why is nearing completion so demotivating?

534 points by danschumann ↗ HN
So I've been working on animation software for over two years. Part of me is very excited for launch so I can have money again ( I've been freelancing a minimum amount these last two years, and went car-less, moved, cut lifestyle into a third ). I should be wholeheartedly excited, but I'm feeling tired and generally sluggish regarding the project. I still make consistent progress, but it takes a lot of will power.

Part of me thinks it might be an aversion to sales. Part of me thinks this could have been built up so much in my head that anything short of overnight millions would be a disappointment (though I would be happy with 1500 bucks a month ), part of me thinks I might be scared of success ( or scared of surpassing my parents )(media attention), part of me fears the attacks that might come with success ( having something to lose ), part of it is the un-fun-ness of mature projects where the focus is on polish and bugs rather than broad new features, and part of me is scared of commitment: if I succeed I have to stick with this (freedom value), part of me wonders what will happen when more people become involved, if I will be able to maintain my creative direction, since I'm scratching my own itch. Part of me wonders if diet and exercise isn't a factor.

A combination, likely...

170 comments

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What type of animation software?

It sounds to me like you need to find co-founders or partners. Part of surviving in the long run is really just emotional support from people who believe in your product and share similar interests. It is unnatural in my opinion for a human to spend years working on something with no immediate reward (doesn't mean you shouldn't do it).

It exports to html, with a 3d scene and svg filters, which are stackable. There is a path system (for 2d cartoons), but that'll likely be v2(so much to polish). Then there are a few ways to integrate it in the page, options for pop out and fixed position play(based on scrolling), in page play(based on scroll[like parallax but better]), auto play(with some options based on scrolling).

I'll make a video when I get some energy so you can get a better idea. I have several examples. The 3d examples are pretty cool, and some of the stuff possible with svg filters is really cool, and then the fact that it responds to user's scrolling makes it kinda fun to play with, and see the effects go in and out.

Are you at all concerned about software patents in this space?
Sure, but what should I do about it?
I didn't think google help could do even less but here it is. I ask for help to recover a recipe board from pinterest and get nothing! NOTHING! Don't need to powerwash everything. We need to have a place that shows history and can be repaired if needed. I know this is too untechnical for you people. But KISS should be your guideline.B. Karr. Thanks for nothing AGAIN!

1

Is this a post in the wrong place. Or?
I'm so confused.. is he saying I should google it? Or is that a bot? It has a green name.
That's pretty cool - can you share the video with me as well when you're done? I'm a potential buyer for a content creation portion of an enterprise.
It's natural. All the tension gets released. Your driving purpose for so long is gone. "Just relax and enjoy yourself" doesn't really help because you enjoyed working towards a goal. The let down is a natural part of it that just reminds you what a ride you had. The only solution is to set a new goal. Next release. New project. If you want to chase the dragon of your first release, try blogging about how you got there.
Are you me?

Programming feels like productive work, and indeed it is, up until just about the point you are at. Now it is not productive work any more, in fact, once the product is finished, programming is counter productive work. Other things need to be done and you don't know how to do them and if you do, are not in the habit of doing them. IOt is easy to get up in the morning and write code, harder to do unfamiliar things.

--> self sabotage (deeply seated need to actually not succeed)

--> fear of the unknown

--> avoidance of a change in work habit - from programming to...... ? what does one do post launch

--> fear of the likely outcome which is zero feedback, zero users

Curious - how close are you to launch, what remains to be done, and what does the software actually do?

Can I suggest perhaps be really ruthless about the remaining tasks - likely many of those launch tasks just are not important, even though the completionist in you thinks they are. For example - terms and conditions document? Ditch it until users are interested. Privacy document? Same. Purchase? Drop it.

See what I mean? If people like what you have built and use it, then the world will not come to an end because you did not have those things... and user interest will motivate you to implement them.

It's incredibly hard to work on something with no user interest. Just dump what you have built out there and see what happens.

Hey wow that's great advice I think I'll learn from what you say here.
Uh? A user replying to himself with congratulations? What's just happened here? :/
I'm just saying heck I wish I could take my own advice.

I am empathizing with the OP about how hard this point of a project is.

Perhaps I'm being too dry.

Maybe a bit meta for HN.
Yep - the more obvious interpretation was "Hey look, hoodoof forgot to switch sock puppet accounts!
This might be the funniest comment/reply I've ever seen on HN.
24th of May 2018 might not be the best time to choose to launch anything while intentionally having ditched thinking about your T&Cs and Privacy Policy...
4% of 0 is 0.
Sure, and I know it's mostly scaremongering, but "4% of zero, or 'up to 20 million euros'" is up to 20 million euros.

A better motivator, in my opinion, is that disclosing up front what data you're going to capture, and what you're going to do with it, and obtaining consent for that from users - is "the right thing to do". Unless your business model is "fucking over the users", those are not scary things to do, and will likely lead you to make better decisions about what you collect and how you store it, and reduce your and your users exposure in the worst case.

Hey "fucking over the users" Strategy has been doing Comcast wonders for decades.
Yep - and I have zero fucks to give about how much grief the GDPR is going to cause Comcast. Or Facebook. Or Google. Or Equifax.
It's whichever is larger.
And it’s the maximum penalty, not the penalty.
I'd just block Europe instead...
That _helps_, but I'm a British/EU citizen, living in Australia, who regularly VPNs through servers in Singapore, Tokyo, and the US.

I'm still protected by GDPR.

(Personally, I reckon that's quite an overreach by EU lawmakers, but that's what they've chosen to do, in response to equivalent or worse "overreach" by internet companies trading in personal information...)

According to this HN discussion you're probably not covered by GDPR: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16751791
Thanks for that!

That actually makes sense (not something that's expected to be true of laws...)

So by my reading of the advice linked there:

If an individual is in the EU, they're covered by GDPR - whether they're a citizen or not.

If a company is based in or does business in the EU, all it's users are covered by the GDPR - whether they're in the EU or not, and whether they're an EU citizen or not.

That's much less over-reachy than I'd thought. The EU arguably does have the right to make laws about how you treat people within it's borders - whether they're citizens or not. (A death threat against a Chinese person in Paris should be prosecutable under French law by French police/authorities). The EU definitely does have the right to make laws about how businesses in the EU or who have offices/presence in the EU treat people everywhere. (A London company discriminating against a homosexual Saudi citizen should be prosecutable under British law by British authorities, even if it's not illegal to so discriminate in Saudi Arabia).

I think it's even less reachy than that - if a foreign multinational has a subsidiary in the EU, I don't think the parent company is covered by the GDPR unless they directly deal with subjects in the EU. So they can compartmentalize the parts of the company that must deal with the GDPR, by redirecting every EU user to the EU subsidiary.
I'm happy to be blocked from products that aren't compliant. There will usually be other alternatives. This is better than unknowingly using something that could cause me problems later.

I don't even take it as an aggressive negative, unless it is explicitly expressed as such. You can just be honest and say "I can't accept your custom at this time because X, and we have other priorities that would make addressing X to everyone's satisfaction a problem for the foreseeable future".

Christ this hits hard to home. (Note amateur programmer here), I built my software, openers to beta testers and was active in the community. (It's a good deal control software for a popular game - pretty much a copilot who would do things for you).

So many testers said they would try it out, never did and there was an insane amount of actual testers who wanted something slighty different. (Which i couldn't do, as I had spoken to the company, and doing certain automated style actions would have gotten me banned).

A better question might be, "how can I get motivated again?" :-)
How can I get motivated again? :D How can I make it fun again?
The reply above from tripn is perfect.

divide it to many small challenges according to the process, and reward yourself after each one completed, then you don't need to reach 100%, you are already succeeded ( by your own definition ).

The impending prospect of being judged.
With the possibility of the worst form of judgement - disinterest/ambivalence.
I have been there before and I think it's demotivating because reality is setting in. Before you release you can stay under the delusion that anything is possible. As soon as you release you are forced to deal with problems that aren't fun anymore. Marketing, advertising, people telling you your product isn't very good, people telling you they like your product but then not buying it and using alternatives instead.

The truth is people aren't going to bust down your door and give you millions. What comes after release is far harder and demotivating then before, and, if you are lucky, you can find success after a few more years of a hard, slow grind. If you aren't so lucky, you end up back at a normal job :)

Good luck!

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i think you defined the whole process as one challenge. divide it to many small challenges according to the process, and reward yourself after each one completed, then you don't need to reach 100%, you are already succeeded ( by your own definition ).
Overcoming this is fear of launch is the key differentiator between businesses that have a chance and those that are doomed from the start.
Because the first 90% was enjoyable and the second 90% is no fun. The places a mind can wander when provided a blank canvas are infinitely more vast than an already painted one.
I usually find this. The interesting stuff is done: you've nurtured the idea, you've proven the concept, you've refined the design, you've made it work. Now what is left is dotting the is and crossing the ts (the boring nitty-gritty finishing details) and dealing with people (release, marketing, support, ...).

If you are a creative at heart this finishing stage can feel soul destroying: you've already got your next big idea, probably several of them, just waiting for you to complete this one so you've got time to properly get started...

There's a more practical side too: earlier in the project a day's work can produce a large increment in functionality. Later in the project you get less and less obvious result for your effort. Those smaller and smaller increments are important for your product to be polished and reliable, but they don't feel as satisfying to the implementer.
> Part of me wonders if diet and exercise isn't a factor.

For sure and probably more than any of hose hidden psychological you've invented.

My advice is to find someone to work with on your product.

I'm almost done with my side project and I feel exactly the same!
It’s a fear of failure. The sky is the limit with new fresh projects. Thinking of the potential and possibilities is exhilarating. But reality hits hard once you launch. That’s why I’m a proponent of launching early and often. Get it out there fast and don’t spend a lot of time thinking about how successful or unsuccessful it will be.
Sounds like you need a partner to take on the things you dread (marketing, sales, & support). And you take on developing future iterations of your idea based on the marketing, sales, and support feedback.
When your project is finished, the dream is dead and the reality is born. The death of a dream is like the death of a friend. It's probably been with you for a long time -- longer even than the length of the project. A dream is the manifestation of what's possible. When it is over, the possible diminishes very quickly and you are left with what actually is. Will people respond well to your project -- in the dream stage it is possible; everything is possible. In the reality stage, it will only be what it is.

So while it's common to think of a release as a birth of something new, realise that you also have a significant loss. You will mourn that loss. Give yourself some emotional space to deal with the mourning.

This is exactly it. Tens of my personal projects have died in this stage. It was always much easier to move on to the next dream. There is always the next big problem that could use a solution. Why not build when it is what we do best? Rinse, repeat.

I took a break from side projects for several years but recently got back to it and couple weeks back finished building. It is the same story all over again. Same feeling. I'm dreading what comes next.

I’ve felt this so many times and kinda feeling it right now as I’m nearing launch of a side project. I think at least for me a big part of the feeling is fear - fear of the project falling flat on its face even though I validated the idea before I even started and got a lot of interest and positive feedback. As they say, money talks. If nobody is buying my stuff then all that praise and interest was bullshit - just people trying not to hurt your feelings. This is the stage where I’m about to find the truth - I either built something in demand or it was all for nothing. Also, now that I think about it, even if the project is a mild success, there comes a whole set of other boring things I’ll have to worry about like support and constant growth. There is a lack of excitement when all I’ll be doing is making modifications to something that was fun to build at first.
I think this is why it's super useful to have a cofounder for a side project: there's someone to let down (besides yourself) when you give up too soon.

This is also why funding (and employees) helps a lot of startups. Not so much the money itself, but an ever growing consortium of people who literally have a vested interest in the thing continuing. It's harder to give up when people are counting on you.

If your side project isn't the kind where you want to make money in the end then you're going to need to have higher intrinsic motivation I suspect as none of these pressures will likely come to bear and help you stay motivated.

My solution for this was not to "look forward to the next big project", as my thinking was, but instead I looked back on my life, what were some of my best memories related to work. (there are online courses to illicit this answer, I went through Simon Sineks 'Start With Why', though you might know it anyway).

So, I picked my best memories, and they were animation related. I knew that when it came to the 'switch horses' temptation, I would be able to say, "every project gets to this stage, so why would I switch to my 2nd favorite thing, because surely that would be even harder at this phase. Sure this phase is hard, but doing my favorite thing means this is the easiest version of this phase".

It's kept me going.

> in the dream stage it is possible; everything is possible. In the reality stage, it will only be what it is.

Best comment I've read all week.

Yes, but... not b/c the dream stage includes the possibility of succeeding. It's all the other possible outcomes that make it richer and preferable to the reality stage, where one and only one thing will be. Even if that thing IS success. This is the unknown vs certainty, the unfortunate and mind-bending nature of desire. The reason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_on_a_winter%27s_night_a_tra... is so great. And the reason I'm not doing what I should be doing... :(
Nice/interesting comment although “death of a friend” seems a bit harsh. (Although in some cases it may be worse than the death of a friend!)

Not sure if this is what OP is experiencing or just some 90/10 etc rule about the last parts being the hardest parts. Starting a greenfield project you can make massive progress quickly. Polishing it is slow.

That is not harsh art all. If you have ever really poured everything you have into something for hours and hours a day and months on end only to be rejectd over and over again. "Death of a friend" is totally accurate IMO. Day and night you spend your time nurturing and growing this thing in hopes of it becoming more... When/If your project fails - TBH - its more like the death of a child.
"When/If your project fails - TBH - its more like the death of a child."

Thankfully, I have neither suffered from the loss of a child nor a failed major project.

However I would expect someone making a statement like this to have suffered from both, in which case you have my sincerest condolences.

It's interesting -- I wholeheartedly agree with the phenomenon, but I'd frame it completely differently.

There's a scary cliff there, but I feel like launching is when a project first becomes real. It's the actual start. It's when you're judged. It's usually when you learn that your assumptions were completely wrong. It means you have to start dealing with actual problems, not imagined problems.

That's usually less fun, but I think it is more exciting (in large part because it's the dive into the unknown).

Being in the same stage as the OP, I highly second this comment. I have been working on something for last 19 months. It is nearly complete, but still finding it difficult to wrap up somehow. Your comment has given me some insight and some closure.

Thanks a lot !

Exactly the same here. Almost two years, it's near completion and more than what I imagined at first, but that last mile, damn it's hard. I constantly find another thing to add or focus on to avoid that final step.

I hope you'll find the strengh to do so :)

I think it was an indyhackers story I’ve read where someone said “just get it out there ASAP”. Don’t let imperfections keep you from learning the hard truth about your baby.
That's also on one of the YC founder's blog (PG?), and really it makes a lot of sense. Let the market suggest the 2.0 version.

It sucks to fail, but hey; most people do not have the inherent desire to even play. That means something in and of itself. Good luck.

And you too ! :)
Good comment.

Post-completion depression is a recognised syndrome in the arts. One psychological explanation is that constant pressure to complete maintains a core state of focus and emotional arousal.

When the pressure disappears so does the arousal, and sometimes a sense of purpose and direction disappears with it. You knew what you were doing and why you needed to get up in the morning, and then you don’t any more. It’s a bit like losing a job.

It’s also temporary. A good prosaic but effective antidote is a vacation and/or a change of scene. If that’s not practical just after shipping - it often isn’t - at least clear a couple of weeks later, book a break, and take at least a weekend off to do something fun in the short term.

Very insightful and it matches very well my experience where it is easier for me to complete a task when I have also other tasks in progress.
This. I think the issue of "separation anxiety" can be applied here... Same thing with handing over pet projects to someone else, and losing control over it.
I guess it's kinda like when one of your kids grow up enough to fly by themselves. You're proud of them, but you're also sad to see them go.
> the dream is dead and the reality is born

I could not say this better myself. "The Dream Is Dead, Long Live The Reality". So very true upon many things.

I've been back here to re-read this comment 10+ times today, it's really resonated with me.

Thank you.

All this may be true, but just understand that when you finish one phase of a project, another one begins. So now, comes the part where you have to promote and get word out about that project (software, whatever it happens to be) before it becomes a success. The work is not actually over, just the 'creation' aspect. And, if someone is addicted to merely creating rather than helping the creation thrive and survive, they will perpetually be stuck with a house (or computer) full of half finished projects.
> part of me thinks I might be scared of success ( or scared of surpassing my parents )(media attention), part of me fears the attacks that might come with success ( having something to lose )

Beware of those expectations, after the initial press fades out (a week or two in), you're going to have close to 0 users and 0 revenue. Launching is just the first step, you'll be successful when you can grow your user base.

You're likely not going to feel successful at that point, probably the opposite: "I spent 2 years working on this and no one is using it".

There is a required shift in mentality that you are due.

Its like when you're in love, at first you can survive on romance, but to survive a marriage, there is a necessary shift into the long term mentality.

You've romanced your way to a product, but haven't considered the long term of it yet. In the future, it would help to have some long term thinking earlier on, so you can plan for various things and not have a step-function-like inflection point in your expectations.

Like switching from growing something to not letting it die? Maybe that's not quite articulated right.. but yea, some sort of shift in mentality..
Your brain may be telling you that you need to shift your point of view and focus your energy on different activities, but you may not be clear on what those activities are, or feel like doing them.

Have you launched a product before? Do you have any pre-launch users/customers? Have you done customer development on this product, or just built a thing?

I could be very wrong but the reasons you gave were all scenarios where you end up successful. That probably makes me think that you are just scared of the failure and judgement that comes from putting yourself out there.

For me the solution has been to know that whatever I create is out of the need that it has to be created or it will bother me to no end. So even if it is criticised the other option would have been to not create it which would be much worse.

Also if you are not on point when it comes to your diet and exercise there is a lot of room left for you to feel better than you are at the moment just by doing that. The difference can be night and day.

How's that novel coming? Almost done, I'll bet.

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2009/12/how_to_create_motiva...

>You can do 90% of something, but the last 10% takes years, or never gets done.
> All of those are the same thing: defenses. Abstractly, they are fears of finality. Not finishing means anything can still happen, your identity remains intact: "I'm a writer."

> More concretely, they are a form of self doubt not about the success of executing the act which is in your control-- the writing of the book, the asking the girl out-- but of being able to manage the consequences which are not-- the publishing of the novel, sustaining a relationship/finding a burn unit.

Brilliant article. Hits home. Thanks.

I'm currently in a somewhat similar situation, although with a smaller open source project, and that's exactly what I've been struggling with the last few weeks. There are some great points in the comments here, here are my 2 cents and what I'm currently doing.

Like someone here said already - the second 90% are no fun. The first 90% are fun, launching is fun, people using and loving your software is fun and eventually getting filthy rich is probably fun (I really wouldn't know), but the second 90% are usually just a giant pain in the arse. Accepting that does make it easier.

Plus, when you're making something you care about and you really want it to be good, it's particularly hard to say no to features, even more so when you expect to get paid for the whole thing. And a case can certainly be made that one should probably be careful not to launch an MVP with too strong an emphasis on the M, no second chance for a first impression and all that.

That being said, as Joel Spolsky once wrote, shipping is a feature. It's your most essential feature. If you cut a few things here and there and add them post-launch, it probably won't kill you. It may even turn out that you don't need them or that you could do them better.

If you keep pushing a deadline trying to get everything in there, getting it just so for the launch, losing more and more motivation along the way, maybe deciding that you really need to rewrite this or that but it'll take you another month or something - that could kill you.

So I think this is the time to brutally cut everything you can cut and just get the damn thing out the door. Half a product is better than both a half-arsed product and no product.

Once you're done butchering your todo list, you apply the age old universal recipe for all things that you don't feel like doing but need to do, trite though it may seem - you take it one step at a time. You don't sit down at the computer thinking "I've got to launch this". You sit down thinking "I've got to implement this thing", "I've got to fix that bug", etc.

You've worked on something continuously for two years. This already puts you ahead of the overwhelming majority of people who want to make things. In the words of Captain Reynolds:

https://youtu.be/xbbj2o0yUI0?t=17s

I should probably go and see about following my own advice now.

> shipping is a feature. It's your most essential feature.

Very true. It's a feature, but I think I've been looking at it as a liability.

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It’s the 80/20 Pareto principle. The last 20% of the work feels like 80% of it. And honestly, maybe it is. Have you considered that maybe you aren’t as close to the end as you think? Often that last 20% doesn’t contain any major challenges, but rather a mountain of small and tedious tasks that you’ve “left til later” throughout the project. So although it feels like you’re almost finished, because you’ve eliminated all major challenges, you actually have a lot left to do because the sum of those smaller tasks is greater than you estimated.

If that’s true, it’s better to be realistic about what work remains. That way you won’t lose motivation when you’re spending so much time completing the project, because you’ve consciously recognized there is still a lot of work to do.

And TBH I’ve been in the same boat, and in fact am in that 80/20 area on my current project. We’ve all been there I think. It’s part of software. Best thing you can do is recognize it for what it is and deal with it like you would any challenge.

Can't agree with this more. The smaller tasks are not just greater than you estimated, they're also the tasks that you disliked the most. That's why the end feels so painful.
For many it's not the completion that causes the dejected feeling. It's the thought of starting something new, knowing many of the daunting tasks that will lie ahead. And further knowing that you cannot know all of them.
Do you have a written plan on how you will make money with this - like a business plan? If not, take a day off and work out a complete outline on what you want to achieve and how you will get there.

I totally get what you are saying and have been there myself - the development stage is fun, and you avoid / defer marketing tasks because, let's face it most of us HATE that stuff. But if you want to make money, you need to do it, and having a plan helps because you have the 'big tasks' broken up into little chunks.

Once you have broken down the steps you can plan your time - start by spending an hour a day on one of the marketing tasks, just to get into the mindset and work from there. You might find some marketing tasks are fun, just as doing a blog / video demo of the product, or putting together a collection of cool screenshots showing what it can do.

Your very first marketing task is to post here with a screenshot or something showing what your product looks like, or even the name - marketing is part getting the name out and I haven't seen that in this post anywhere yet.

So, yes it is hard but take it in small steps - one at a time and be persistent.

There is a screenshot or two ( top one is older ) at http://schuwing.com (and an email signup for launch updates).

I do have an example page in the works, with 4 examples so far, of each of the different page-integrations (in page pop-out, scroll, auto-play, etc), and each showcasing a few of the different svg filters.

It's marketed toward professionals, so I'm not in the game of taking non-creative people and "giving them a creative outlet". It should help with real world animated web tasks, and I had some experience with that in my freelancing. I'll probably have some pricing tiers, but probably something like $29/month, 59, 149, with higher tiers being more support.

For marketing, besides doing tutorials and buying ads on youtube, I can reach out to people w/ existing "how-to design" blogs, and share revenue with them (recurring), to keep their watchers using the software. Then reaching out to companies, even cold-calling if it proves cost effective.

I just have a bunch of polish to iron out. If I release it with bugs, and those bugs end up causing people to lose work (ie work for an hour without saving, and then a breaking bug causes you to lose work), I might lose those customers forever, so I'm stuck ironing those out for now.

It's getting really close though, and it seems like the closer it gets, even though I have figured out some possible ways forward for marketing, the less motivated I am.

I think I have to admit that in some ways I was, and really liked, chasing a fantasy, and I don't know how to chase now that it's more real. The hunger is what I'm lacking, in a way I feel full.

I feel like this quote[0] from David Foster Wallace is relevant here:

"perfectionism is very dangerous because, of course, if your fidelity to perfection is too high you never do anything, because doing anything results in... it's actually kind of tragic because it means you sacrifice how gorgeous and perfect it is in your head for what it really is, and umm, there were a couple years where I really struggled with that."

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5R8gduPZw4

Have money again? Getting people to use it for free will probably be a challenge... getting people to pay may be nearly impossible.

Here's my animation platform that gets no traffic as an example: https://www.superanimo.com

Maybe yours will be different but at one time I also thought "if I release it, the people will come." Luckily I wasn't invested too much in a certain outcome after launching. Otherwise I would have never kept improving it. I still don't know if more than a few people will ever try it, but I like working on it so much it won't ever feel like a waste. If nothing else, at least I can make silly animations with it.

1. What didn't work for you might work for someone else. 2. We have no way to make a comparison with what you did to what he's doing - see #1.
That's why I said 'maybe his project will be different.'

Reading the post again I think he's saying he'll have money again because once launched he'll stop working on it and go back to freelance. In that case it makes sense. I thought he was assuming he'll bring in profits once launched - even though he hasn't gotten user feedback yet. IMO that type of thinking is premature, even if you have the best idea/execution in the world.

Yes, luck plays a big part in this game... unfortunately. I actually read it as in "he'll make sales which will generate more income" but what you're saying is valid though I think once you launch, you end up getting more work as feedback comes pouring in.