Ask HN: Is being an introvert okay?
My social skills are going down exponentially day by day. I am an undergraduate at a university. I tend to be communicative with people who share similar interests (physics, hacking, heavy metal etc.). Is this for the worst? I know that HN is not a social advice site. But I believe that there'd be a couple of guys having had experiences like me who could give me some advice :)
94 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 148 ms ] threadI faced a similar battle and realized I was just growing a lot faster than the people around me and just needed broader experiences. In the end, I learned to focus on QUALITY of relationships, not QUANTITY. I learned that one amazing woman is better than a hundred models. I learned that one loyal friend is better than a hundred cool ones.
Not all who wander are lost...
Seek help, from a friend, or maybe even a professional.
Functioning and even prospering in modern society requires you to be plugged in and socialize. You can live fine off the grid and being an outsider but with each option you have the advantages or disadvantages.
Do you and what makes you happy.
Find out what others like the way you like things. And talk to them about those things. This will give you something to chat about, teach you something about a subject you didn't know about before, and possibly earn them some respect in your eyes.
But beyond that, just seek out people who do share your interests. There are plenty. Me, for example. There are too many people out there who you will get along with great instantly to stress over those who are basically asleep.
But when in a pinch, it's good to try and get them to talk about something they can teach you about.
Good luck to you. And if none of that works, ping me at daniel@danielmiessler.com, and we can chat physics (I'm an amateur) and metal (old school).
Cheers.
http://www.toastmasters.org/
When you get out into the business world, you'll find that standing up in front of a group and giving presentations is an important skill. It might be for something as simple as explaining why X is the wrong direction and Y is a better direction. You'll need to be able to sell yourself when it comes to business - after all, that is what a job interview is.
Nor does it mean "bad at selling yourself". An introvert who is speaking about a subject that they are passionate about is a force to be reckoned with.
Being extroverted is a talent. If you're an introvert, no amount of willpower is going to make dealing with strangers more fun. That said, you can be good at it. Some of the top public speakers and sales people are introverts. But when they walk off the stage, they need their space.
That said, my advice is to find ways to be happy with being who you are. And you're hardly going to be alone out there. I've seen figures indicating that about 3/4 of programmers are introverted. There is something about interacting intensely with a computer that does not appeal so strongly to extroverts. So, depending on what you want to do, being an introvert could be an advantage.
I actually rather like interacting with people, but I also like to think deeply, and I can't talk and think deeply at the same time. So I have to alternate if I want to stay happy.
I'm just happier alone, or with a small group. And now I accept that, and it's great.
Even though that's true, I loved selling Dyson vacuum cleaners when I was a kid. I still love persuading people to see things my way and speaking in public. So you can be introverted but still able to work with people. It's a developed skill, and I was lucky enough to pick it up through retail in high school.
It's okay to be an introvert if being that way makes you happy. If what you're saying is that you're lonely, that's a different kettle of fish.
Finding fellowship can be a challenge. Being at a university helps – you've got a great shot at finding more like-minded people. If you can strike a balance between alone time and people whose company you genuinely like, you're in good shape. I know it's easier said than done, though. It may help to accept there's nothing wrong with introverted inclinations. People like people who are true to themselves.
And the really funny thing was, in contrast to normal situations where "being social" exhausted me, I found I gained energy from the interactions. Yet I was still my normal introverted self after it was over.
Funny how a situation can change your effective personality. :)
Frankly I don't get what advice are you seeking - you can't force yourself to hang with people you don't like or are not attracted to, do what makes you feel good.
Well, they aren't the same thing but they're definitely related.
I think the title question isn't very good. It's a sort of leading question. Why, of course it's OK to be an introvert. By any reasonable definition a large part of the world's population are introverts, and introversion itself isn't a mental disorder.
So most people (especially on HN) will say that's OK to be an introvert, but the more interesting question is how good are your social skills and how they affect your life. I think there are two interpretations for the post:
A) I have such and such issues, and maybe I'd be happier if I changed this. I assume there are people who have been in a similar situation, please advice. Examples of this kind of issues:
"I have anxiety when speaking in front of a large group of people."
"I haven't had a serious relationship for the past year."
"I wish I could be more assertive."
"I wish I could do better in parties / I wish I had more friends."
You probably don't need a therapist to solve these.
B) I have such and such issues, do they indicate psychological problems? Should I consult a therapist? Examples:
"I have anxiety when talking to people in general/I can't talk to strangers even when it's expected (asking for information, having a job interview, etc)."
"I've never had a girlfriend / I have problems talking to women."
"I have low self-esteem / I'm not assertive at all and people take advantage of me."
"I don't have any friends".
For these you'd probably need to see a therapist.
Well, they aren't the same thing but they're definitely related.
I don't agree. Last I checked I match most of the points describing an introvert and I consider myself one. Some of my friends from IT field I know very well also match the description. None of us has problems socializing, partying, meeting people, picking up girls or maintaining relationships.
For me, the key points of being an introvert is feeling comfortable being alone with yourself (not to confuse with lonely), living your way and not being very concerned about acceptance of other people (opposed to extravert). None of that means that you have a disability to socialize, you just perceive social relations in a different way, and as long as you are happy with that, there's nothing wrong. As you stated, if one feels that has issues, he should probably change that, but IMO it's not the 'being introvert' part to change, just their social skills maybe need some improvement. Extravert people also can have social problems, that can lead to even stronger issues as they seek acceptance of outside world.
For these you'd probably need to see a therapist.
Social skills are things you just can learn, as any other skill. Therapy states that sth is wrong, there's nothing wrong in lack of knowledge.
So with that in mind, being an introvert is a good and wholesome thing as long as you realize that you have an extraverted side that needs attention too. For instance, I make a conscious effort to do something sociable on occasion even if I have to drag myself. In doing so, I can engage my extraverted side without having to turn myself into an extravert.
But, once you can say screw it, you learn to treat such social interactions as a game, and you get adept at the entertaining aspect. In fact, I've found that I can say things that spark people's interest more easily because I'm an introvert and I understand what's going on better.
If you're more comfortable being isolated and feel a pleasure by doing difficult tasks - go further and do some programming or research. You will probably succeeded above average, because focusing, concentration and avoiding distractions is the most important things.
If on the other hand, you feel uncomfortable and sometimes have an urge to be with people (mostly girls) - then you should change yourself, develop a new habits and smooth communication skills. In this case just go out and learn by doing.
Many introverts are trying to avoid unpleasant practices by reading tons of book on subjects. That is a mistake. Information cannot replace actual experience. Knowledge of a theory is not a substitute for a personal realization.
>Go up to a woman that you feel drawn to and stand there and say "I have to say. I'm very nervous to talk to you but I had to walk over and say hi."
Please don't. That is, unless you have material after this line, which is unlikely unless you are already skilled in chatting up strangers. You'll create an awkward situation. She'll probably give you a forced smile, and then you'll panic because now the you've opened with a sketch line and nothing else to say. I've definitely done this a number of times. I am speaking from the pain of experience.
You'd be better off finding something innocuous you like about her, and why, then opening with that. 'I like your striped socks. Where did you get them?' Then you have something to talk about for a bit.
That aside, I struggle with this too. I just spent the day at a friend's birthday party with 95% new people, and I am socially wiped. My suggestion if you want to progress in the social skills dept: practice. Make time for it.
I wholeheartedly agree with the find-a-new-hobby advice. Salsa class is a _great_ example because in a given night you get ~10-30 interactions with new women when you rotate. It is rapid fire practice. Also rock-climbing. People are friendly and social. I always ask about techniques to climb X, which can lead to a decent convo.
And finally, go to every social thing you are invited to. Everything. Even if you feel shitty and want to hole up with your computer. It will get easier.
Please do. Of course this is what is going to happen, I have done that too, but it is fantastic to fail, because it is the only way to improve and success. You will discover that the world doesn't end from you making mistakes, in fact you had the courage to try.That is the important thing, that and to persist!.
"Material after this line?" Ohh my god, believe me girls know when someone is shy and will help him if they want but what they all hate is being considered machines over human beings. PUA's techniques are already heard a million times by a pretty girl today. And is not what you say("material"), is how you say it.
Those that not even try will not have success ever, because they don't try in the first place.
Plus, if you have a plan (material!) you will come across as more confident because you aren't making it up on the spot.
Also, girls rarely 'help' you unless the environment is social. A friend's party is easy. She will 'help' you; you are already vetted in lacking creep. Bars are moderately easy. Just act like you are awesome. Salsa is easy as they are there to meet people. A cute girl on the train platform will not help you. You gotta be god damn don juan.
My advice is to determine how much "me time" you need every day. Give it to yourself, but be careful not to succumb to any anti-social tendencies. The fact is, people are important, and good social skills will serve you as well as, if not better, than good hacking skills. (For one thing, the more people you know, the more opportunities come your way.)
I think the main problem introverts have is we have trouble "just hangin'". This is because it's physically draining to just idly fritter the day away with others. Unfortunately, that's where a lot of social bonding comes from. The way I've gotten around this is to limit my time in group settings -- but when I'm with people, I make sure I'm "on". A party, a dinner, a night out, a meeting, whatever. As long as I've had time alone to charge up, I'm good to go.
Some other posters have mentioned public speaking. I've noticed that introverts are often GREAT performers. I know this is true for myself. Public speaking, acting, music, introverts seem to really come alive on stage. I think the reason is twofold.
For one, we're already pretty comfortable inside our own skins, and for another, it's an outlet to express whatever it is we need to express without the draining meandering of ordinary dialogue. If you're having trouble branching out you might try an acting class. I've found these to be awesomely rewarding.
After many years I've come to think of my introversion as a glorified speech impediment. If you let it get in the way, it will, but if you put a little effort into it, it's something people won't even notice after a while.
And oh yeah, on campus you'll likely come across some "cool loner" types from time to time. Most likely they'll be on a motorcycle. These, my friend, are introverts. Careful observation of how they navigate social situations could prove valuable.
This is especially true in the startup world where knowing the right people and having smart people on your team is arguably just as essential to your success as all those late nights hard at work you may put in.
The only way you get to meet these "right" people, is to meet A LOT of people, and that means pushing outside of your comfort zone.
Introverted is one thing, I am as well. I like my time to think, explore, etc. But being shy and not liking the differences of others because it is things you don't like is a cause for concern.
Additionally, not taking the time to learn and thus practice the necessary skills to networking appropriately will only place you behind the 8 ball, so to speak, in what you do. Being introverted can very easily put a lower ceiling on who you meet and how they can help you, or you help them.
Almost everyone says the same thing, "Oh no. I'm an introvert. This is exhausting to me. I can't wait to get back to my room. But I can keep it up for a couple necessary hours."
A lot of people that seem so "on", that seem like extroverts, are actually just faking it for a short burst. Even a lot of big-name music stars are actually painfully shy when off stage. Sometimes it's the reason they want to be on stage: because they don't know how to mingle in the crowd.
So don't feel bad. Embrace it. Don't waste time with shallow socializing. Just keep working and improving.
Then when you find that rare kindred you really connect with, have deeper friendships with them, since you're not diluting your time with the shallow chatter.
That's it right there - introverts are people who recover energy by being alone or in smaller, more intimate, less crazy groups. Extroverts recover energy being with other people.
There's a difference between being introverted and reclusive - there's plenty of ways to connect with people that'll recharge as an introvert. When I lived in Boston, I talked to the owner of Samurai Restaurant and she let me set up a little place in the back and play Go with a friend for a few hours so long as we ordered a bit, or have small meetings there. It was cool, minimal, private area with lots of space, kind of hidden and half-underground, and we had a lovely time drinking tea and playing Go or talking philosophy or whatever.
If you're introverted, you've got to think a little on how to socialize and be recharged from it, but you definitely can find something that's suitable for you and run with it. In fact, it's almost required to stay mentally healthy. Introversion is good and fine, reclusiveness usually has bad side effects.
> At the Jefferson Boulevard entrance to the campus, the guard at the gatehouse broke into a smile upon hearing Haden’s name. The guard, Eric Johnson, stepped out from his kiosk and explained that in his early 20s, he worked for a messenger service. One day he completed a downtown delivery to Haden, who stopped to converse with him for a few minutes.
With the exception of his time at Oxford, Haden has spent his entire adult life as the guy everybody knows as soon as he walks into the room. His friends say Haden’s gift is that he leaves knowing everybody else’s stories.
"He has such compassion and humility," said J. K. McKay, who caught Haden’s passes at Bishop Amat High in La Puente, Calif., east of Los Angeles, and at U.S.C., where they were coached by McKay’s father, John.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/sports/23haden.html?_r=1...
[1] But on Tuesday, Obama could not praise his one-time rival too warmly, jokingly recounting how Clinton's famous schmoozing skills had persuaded him to attend.
"I think everyone knows what it's like when Bill Clinton asks you to make a commitment," Obama said.
"He looks you in the eye, he feels your pain, he makes you feel like you're the only person in the room. What could I say? I was vulnerable, just like all of you have been vulnerable, to his charms."
http://www.soundanalarm.net/BillClintonWorldSaviour2009.html
For the introverts who can function normally and simply find socializing exhausting, thats great for them, but there are also introverts who are deeply affected by those other problems (myself included), and I feel like they/we are at a big disadvantage.
I don't know to what extent this applies to the OP, but he sounds a bit like me. I've progressively become less social since high school (to the point that I'm often referred to as "the quiet one") and haven't really tried to do anything about it, even though I'd like to.
A few tips: 1) Always smile. 2) Don't develop preconceived notions that prevent you from building relationships. 3) Force yourself to talk with others. 4) Avoid making negative comments. Try to be enthusiastic.
If you practice this religiously, people will never know that you're introverted. I know, because this is me - no one in my social circles would ever believe me if I told them that I thought I was naturally introverted.
I give myself as an example. I'm 30 now, and up until my mid-twenties I could easily be considered introverted. I always got a strong 'I' on Myers-Briggs type tests. Other people told me I was introverted all the time as well,
I agreed. I loved my alone time, wasn't super motivated to socialize with others, and got drained by being with people.
I also happened to have weak social skills, and wasn't happy with that. As I improved my social skills, and gained the ability to better enjoy other people's company, I noticed a lot of my so-called inborn, introverted personality traits were lessening as the years went by:
-I wasn't getting drained by socializing any more, because it was easier, more fun, and didn't use up as much mental effort.
-I still appreciated my alone time, like everyone really, but I didn't crave it as intensely.
-My internal motivation to socialize and be around other people went way up.
-In time I started to want to hang around bigger groups of people and do louder, crazier things when I went out. It was almost like I got used to smaller events, and sometimes needed something more stimulating to get my social 'fix'
-I just got more chatty and outgoing in general.
Looking back, I feel a lot of my introverted tendencies were a result of a social skill/comfort deficit I had. They felt like a core part of my personality at the time, but looking back I don't know if they were.
That said, I still love spending some days all by myself doing nothing. But it's good to have the ability to switch into a social mode when I want to.
You can succeed in life being either way. Actually, a recent study showed that now close to 50% of the Fortune 2000's CEOs did acknowledge to be introverted! All that it means, is really that you need to respect your needs, and keep yourself on a schedule where you have enough alone time to charge up, and then pick the place & time to unleash all that energy to others.
You are so lucky that being in 2010, you can now also interact and network with many people the electronic way ;) This is not a replacement for the real thing, but it can definitely help you improve your social skills in an environment that does not drain your energy, nor makes you feel uncomfortable.
The bottom line? Embrace yourself, be who you are and nurture your passions & what excites you. I personally know many very successful introverts, so don't let this be your excuse for not reaching out for the stars!
Cheers!