Ask HN: How can I become more eloquent?

Paraphrased advice: To speak better, write more. To write better, read more.

I am able to present myself in writing just about right. Would love to hear tips on how can I be more eloquent while speaking. I am comfortable with public speaking, am just to awkward at dinner table / coffee table gossip.

Try to speak slower. This will give you more time to think, while also making you sound more authoritative.

Remember that writing is very different to speaking, and those prolific writers often spent vast amounts of time tweaking their words until the have the perfect narrative.

When it comes to verbal communication people respond well to stories. As with any story:

  - Start With A Hook.
  - Have A Point To The Story.
  - Choose The Right Time To Tell The Story.
  - Show, Don't Tell.
  - Use Vivid Details, Not Lots Of Facts.
  - Practice Related Skills.
  - Tell Personal Stories, But Cautiously.
  - Share Firsthand Thoughts & Feelings.

Have you tried copyworking yet?

One thing that I recognize in people that sound more eloquent is that they pick the most accurate words when possible, having in consideration when to abstract out or when to be more specific to do not distract you, from the main point.

Sort of not generating ambiguities in the listeners head by using very specific terms. At the same time use more abstract words for the aspects that are no so relevant in the conversation. This is one observation I made, because I’d like to become more eloquent but as you can see I’m not quite there yet hahaha. Thanks for posting this interesting question.

Your post is well written to begin with, so it seems that you already can write consice and convey your point well. While I’m not known almost family and friends as being exceptionally articulate, I’ve found bother reading philosophy and poetry combined with practice to be helpful. You must practice for example, in front of a mirror, or write down some creative thought in a personal journal or even a blog. Reading along won’t help.

My advice is to learn as we humans learn best, through imitation.

Find some speakers that you admire, with online content, or videos. Next take a ~5 minute segment, which has a start and finish.

Turn off the video and formulate the same argument on your own, either in writing, or by recording yourself, depending on your goals. Now go back and compare to the original.

Whilst tedious this will highlight your own shortcomings, and the genius of those you are emulating far quicker than any passive approach, imo.

My English teacher used to say “when you have to write an essay, write a first version. Then throw away everything but your conclusion and use that as the introduction of your real essay”

In other words, start writing and don’t be afraid to throw away. If your issue is structure, writing a first version will help you clarify your arguments, how they fit together and how to present them effectively.

If your issue is formulation (i.e. the idea you want to convey is clear in your head but you can’t manage to express it clearly) I find that an iterative writing / waiting a few hours / re-reading what I wrote / reformulating approach gradually makes my writing better: less grammatical errors, clearer phrases, and usually a more concise result.

Edit: one of my favorite quotes when it comes to writing is “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Antoine de Saint-Exupery

APEC - Assert thesis, Present evidence, Explain relevance, Conclude. Should include the counterargument in the explanation paragraph.

Source: my tyrant of an English professor.

Add a personal/colorful story paragraph before the A and you get the format another professor used while a professionally prolific writer.

Join a nearby Toastmasters club. It'll give you tons of practice in speaking, and you'll quickly see how it affects your speech, not just in speaking contexts, but in any context where you have to speak to, communicate with, or lead people.

Practice your message in different media - everything from tweets through short blog posts and longer articles. Better still, iterate between those and speaking (platform speaking and regular conversation). Through the experimentation and repetition, sharper messages emerge and you find out what resonates with people.

"On Writing Well"by William Zinsser is not a bad start. One of the takeaways from the book is, that much like everything else, writing is a skill that you have to practice in order to get better at it. Do not try to create your own style, first learn how to write only what is essential, without embellishments.

Most people don't:

- Consider their audience

- Make use of structure

- Repeatedly edit what they have written before hitting send

The first and third items are things you can just decide to do: think of your audience, and spend time to read and adjust the content and format until it's great.

For the second item, consider this book: https://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-Principle-Logic-Writing-Think...

Listen more

Take a look at a GMAT critical reasoning workbook. Practice the exercises within them. There are online communities for test prep. In them, you will find people sharing in similar experiences.

Simplicity is eloquence.

Boil it down to simple language. Emulating other authors will not help you discover your own voice.

Hey faced a similar problem when I moved to the US first time. It takes time and with practice you will definitely become better. Just hang out with people who converse in the language you want to gain eloquence in. I would take it language by language.

Develop the 'talk' part of your writing first: try to express your conclusion and supporting evidence verbally in a way that's engaging and easy to understand. Maybe even find someone to explain your idea to. Once you can do that, write your talk down and flesh it out with necessary detail, citations, etc.

Read a variety of styles critically.

Don't just blow through a bunch of novels for the sake of reading. Read poetry, short stories, novels, a variety of genres, etc. Spend time re-reading and analyzing particular passages that stand out to you. Keep a dictionary handy and look up words that don't completely make sense to you.

Take some philosophy classes at the college or graduate level. You will learn to make arguments, and if you have good teachers/TA's, your writing will vastly improve, as they will provide incisive critiques of your writing from structure to word choice & punctuation

This might be overkill for what you're trying to do, but...

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/02/20/writing-advice/

contains some food for thought

If I were to do a first-pass re-write your original question, it might go something like this:

Ask HN: How can I improve my written communication?

When I try to present or argue a point in writing, I find it hard to come up with a clear structure that conveys that point well. I have tried reading a lot. What else can I try?

Why did I make those changes?

- eloquent -> written communication: makes the title match the body, and is more specific

- 'I was taught four languages...' isn't relevant or useful. Everything you write either makes the point, or distracts from the point. Cut the latter.

- "can't seem to remember structures..." is kind of irrelevant, as you're asking for different solutions from the ones you've tried

- 'What else can I try?': End on a call to action.

Practice more writing. The key is to do it in a way where embarrassment of both the style and substance is totally removed: anonymously!

Create a new account on any service where you feel you can have substantive conversations and write, write, write! You’ll quickly find your written voice.

make everything 50% shorter.