Launch HN: Frey (YC S18) – Laundry and Clothing Care Products Tailored for Men
We started this out of a college apartment without the intention of it ever being a full-time job. We noticed that, although we were buying plenty of men’s shampoos, deodorants, fragrances, etc, we were still buying the same detergent our mom had kept at our house growing up.
A very small kickstarter rolled into a small appearance on Good Morning America, at which point we picked our heads up and realized we may have stumbled on a pretty big opportunity.
The laundry industry is outdated and commodified. There’s a massive ($430B) menswear industry and massive ($130B) laundry industry, and there’s a growing number of U.S. men doing laundry (55 million, up 23% from 2013). The laundry industry still seems to be missing this male demographic (and we feel this is also perpetuating this stereotype that only women do/should be doing laundry, something we want to help break down).
There are striking similarities between this industry and other consumer packaged goods industries that have recently underdone large changes (like mattresses, eyeglasses, razors, contacts, etc), and we hope to bring the same change to laundry.
We focus a lot on giving back as well, both for personal reasons (we always wanted to create a company that made a positive impact) and also because it resonates with our demographic. Our products are safer for the environment, we're a certified B-Corporation (meaning we meet rigorous standards of social and environmental performance, accountability, and transparency), and have a bunch of other positive initiatives we can talk about if anyone's interested.
We're excited to hear your thoughts on our idea!
95 comments
[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 121 ms ] threadI'm sure you're aware Tide is concentrated and suitable for far more loads than they claim on the bottle. You do definitely have the honest angle going for you on that bit though.
Additionally, I'd find using a new detergent to be an easier experience if I was supposed to place a similar amount to what I'm already accustomed to.
Just some thoughts; I love the design by the way!
And our pump top is created to be super easy to use, just 6 pumps, no messy cap, one-handed, etc =)
Thank you so much!!!
> we're never going to try to price compete with Tide
> we're just a better, cheaper
Which is it?
You're currently serving ~5mb of uncompressed JavaScript and are not using a CDN for your root domain. I would start with those.
https://www.webpagetest.org/result/180622_77_7b98a10a75ec84f...
I have Contact dermatitis, and there are irritants that trigger a negative reaction with my skin in several common soaps and detergents. It would be very valuable for me to know what compounds are in soaps and detergents so I can identify what specific compounds trigger a reaction by monitoring my exposure and symptoms. Right now the best I can do is say "I've had symptoms while using products [product array] so I should avoid them." This makes trying new products risky. I would much rather know what are in different soaps so I can begin to tract the exact irritants. This would enable me to try different products. Medicines and food require very detailed ingredient lists. It's absurd that products like laundry detergents, soaps, and shampoos that come into close contact with skin do not, because they are important for health and are absorbed by the body.
We have tested our products with dozens of people who have skin sensitivities, and we always outperform the leading brands. Fragrance sensitivity is a different issue, but because our products are basically a natural soap + a few enzymes + a few other natural ingredients, the allergen factor is minimal
This tends to be the opening salvo for many of this type of "target market X for segment Y" - why do you think this is true? What's outdated, the way we do laundry, or the elements we use? While you might argue doing laundry in your own home is outdated, I'm not sure you can say the same thing for the detergents and additives as a visit to your box store will readily show many new products tailored to increasingly niche segments and use-cases.
If you're selling "axe body spray for laundry" that's one thing, but don't tell me P&G is "outdated" when it comes to the science behind detergent vs. a couple of guys in a dorm room.
>> there’s a growing number of U.S. men doing laundry
For themselves where they want a "masculine fragrance" or for their families where mom doesn't want her delicates to smell like "New Jersey Turnpike"?
I get that you're trying to rebrand a commodity market via hip styles and personal delivery, but find it a little disingenuous that you position this as a better way to do laundry.
That said, although I'm part of the demographic change in who does laundry I'm most definitely not your target market.
- We've long since moved past the dorm-room stage =) and P&G have interests outside of making the best product possible. Concentrated detergent is relatively simple to do, and much easier to use. So why haven't they pushed this out? Very much might be because consumer waste allows them to sell more detergent! (Why are there 6 fill lines on the cap, when line 4 is XL? What are lines 5 and 6 for?)
- Absolutely not AXE for laundry, that's brutal =( we're super pro-gender equality, very focused on philanthropy and the environment, and generally just trying to be a great company
- Appreciate all the feedback, genuinely. Not being disingenuous, the vast majority of our customers enjoy doing laundry more when using FREY. Seems like a "better way to do laundry" then, at least by some measure =)
That's a problem that's pretty much already solved with all the "laundry pod" products out there, so it doesn't seem they're afraid people will waste less.
I guess it's hard for me to see this when you're introducing a product that is now needlessly gendered. I do think you're tapping a good niche for a business, but I can't agree with it from a social equality perspective. I think we'd be better off without men's vs. women's razors, the "pink tax" as well. Now you're bringing in a "blue tax."
Given that Identity Politics is "in vogue" these days, there is no reason to think "Identity Consumerism" won't work the same way. You can ride the wave, but it has nothing to do with "better way to do laundry".
Akin to all of the dopp kit stuff where mixing shaving cream with a brush is a better experience than just squirting some shaving cream on your hand from a can?
For example, I really like lavender scented things, and don’t really care if it’s not traditionally masculine. But all these new “lootkit-like” popup brands, like Birchbox or this brand, seem to pigeonhole the intended customer base in a way that seems needlessly overly specific.
I guess I can’t argue if it turns out to be profitable for them. But I’d imagine the types of men who would consider this in the first place are less worried about whether this stuff looks Traditionally Masculine, like the obligatory section of dark-hued, woodsy and musky products you see tucked in some corner of a Sephora or the fragrance section of a department store.
Why not just focus on making nice, quality things of a wide variety, and let people choose? Why does the business have to be fundamentally _about_ one particular stylization of “masculine” home goods?
As I said before though, the product is created for everyone, just tailored towards men. We're simply trying to create an awesome product that give people one more choice in the industry, and we're very excited to expand =)
Yes. That's the point. The volumes I was referring to were the volumes of the appliances' tubs, not the volume of the load. The assumption is that the load is constant since it needs to go from washer to dryer.
Tip: get some rubber gloves to deal with the concentrated solution.
2) apply liberally a paste of baking soda & hydrogen peroxide to yellowed areas
3) let rest for 1-2 hours
4) wash normally
Bonus: use Bluette every few washes.
YC now - Here's some expensive detergent for a niche audience.
I feel like YC is losing its mojo.
If a new expensive detergent that's very ecological gains traction, it will either drop in price or another company will mass-market it.
Compared to the usefulness of Twitch? I'll take an eco product that can be used by everyone any day.
But genuinely, really appreciate the support =)
--Twitch started with Justin Kan strapping a video camera onto his head and live streaming it. He did this for over a year iirc. They've spent the last 11 years going from that livestream to what Twitch is today.
--Reddit was such an early flop it was comical. Alexis and Steve talk about sitting around and making fake comments for the first year of the site because no one was using it.
--Um...do you remember Dropbox's launch on HN? Not so great.
--Airbnb had to re-launch something like five times because literally no one gave a shit about "another couchsurfing.com"
At the end of the day, we're just out here trying to do a little bit of good.
You're a rockstar, thank you for the support =)
Did YC really back this?
Your product looks amazing on the photos. I'm not an expert though, but I would put a male model right on front possibly doing laundry as it could be very attractive. Also, I can see women buy this stuff for there men as a gift (or mothers for their grown up boys leaving their parent's) - point being I would try advertisement channels which audience is female too. I guess you might have thought about that. Congratulation for the launch.
TAM = $130B
Liquid Detergent SAM = $3B
Male-marketed Liquid Detergent SOM = ?
As a (tech) market researcher, and a man somewhat in your target demo, I'd be interested to hear more abt your mkt research both quantitative and qualitative...do men really care abt what brand of detergent they are buying? Is price the most important purchasing factor currently? CAGR of 4.9% [1] is slow, especially since it's driven mostly by mkt penetration of washing machines in developing economies, but I'm sure the CAGR in Frey's niche market would be faster.
What are the profiles you are aiming at? From my perspective your core demographic would be single or non-married, young-ish, working professional types (similar to myself).
Most of these guys live in cities, and when I lived in NYC I used a corner laundromat. Very cheap, efficient, good quality, and not to mention the apt didn't have a washing machine.
Now I live in London with a gf, and we go for eco-friendly but economical detergent to do our laundry. TBH not something I've ever thought much about, or discussed with friends.
I'll be interested to see who your core demographic turns out to be - my tongue in cheek guess is moms of teenagers demanding Frey because they saw it promoted on youtube/instagram by their social media idols :)
My other real-er guess would be high-end corporate accounts - boutique hotels(?), fancy department stores (give it as a sample with purchases of expensive clothing and have it stocked in-store if the customer likes it).
I'm sure if you get enough traction P&G or Unilever will swoop in for the acquisition...good luck!
[1] https://www.happi.com/contents/view_breaking-news/2017-11-28...
BBC: More evidence essential oils 'make male breasts develop' [2]
I'll stick with my no-fragrance detergent, thanks!
[1] https://livefrey.com/shop/the-detergent/ [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/health-43429933