I really loved these - they push out quite far from the desk into your palm which makes for a more natural curve than today's flatter mouses (like the Surface mouse and Apple's blueooth mouse) - but I wish they added Bluetooth to the new model.
This is great, but I really wish they'd bring back the "Wheel Mouse Optical" - it is symmetric which is good if you're ambidextrous or share with left handers, and more importantly it doesn't have those annoying side buttons.
Still I'm glad Microsoft realised there was a lot of demand for this.
I used the Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical for years until I discovered the SteelSeries Sensei.
It is a gaming brand, which means you will have useless lights on it but it still has the symmetric design like the IntelliMouse and has additional buttons on each side that can be remapped with the (not soooo bad) driver software.
Tangential, but I can't understand how left handers can be neglected by peripheral hardware makers this much. Do they assume that just EVERYONE uses the mouse with their right hand?
I'm not lefthanded but I also owned a steelseries sensei, its a very nice ambidexterous symmetric designed mouse. I used it mostly as a push-to-talk button but now I just stick with a g502 logitech prometheus since I tend to favor heavier mouse.
Its a shame there aren't more left-handed mouses developed, but the market isn't nearly as big as right handed mouses.
I really wish they'd bring out an update to their Microsoft Natural Wireless Laser Mouse 6000 [0] instead. Even if it's the exact same mouse, just with a nano receiver rather than the old, giant receiver.
The supposed successor, the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Mouse [1], doesn't quite feel the same.
So I'm assuming there are two customizable buttons on the left side, if it's following the IntelliMouse 3.0 template. But you wouldn't know that from Microsoft's Product Listing page, because they don't show any pictures at all from the left side:
I wish they'd bring back the Microsoft Trackball Explorer - the button switches on mine eventually wore out. This had five buttons - left, right, scroll-click, forward, back (all programmable).
Question for the lefties: what kind of pointing device do you prefer? Mouse? Touchpad? Do you prefer to swap L&R clicks when you use other people's computers?
My Trackball Explorer thankfully is still chugging along. When it expires (could be a few years away at least), I'm planning on trying Logitech Trackman Marble. It looks similar enough...
I use a trackball in my right hand. I use a trackball as it's more ergonomic, and I've had wrist pain in the past from using a mouse. I use my right hand because the oppressive burden of living in a rightie dominated world has made me somewhat ambidextrous. I switch to a mouse in my left-hand for the occasional times I'm gaming.
My last two trackballs have been imports from Japan. Apparently somebody claims a patent on the trackball, and sued Logitech, who have since ceased production of them.
What xkfm said: Amazon, and Elecom or Sanwa Supply. I had a Sanwa Supply and it broke after a couple of years (switches died). Not really a big deal but I'm now using an Elecom and it's been fine for the year or so I've had it. I wanted thumb operated and wired, for which there is no other option AFAIK.
I use an Elecom HT1DR and like it quite a bit. It is their "huge" trackball and I have found it to be pretty comfortable in daily use. The only issue I have is that some of the extra buttons don't work on Linux with the current driver.
I'm a leftie but started on mice in the 90s with my right hand, so I never had to relearn. I used the Microsoft Trackball Explorer for a decade. I'm many years into the Logitech Cordless TrackMan Optical, but mine is starting to have problems. Every couple of months I look for the "next thing" but didn't know there's a patent on trackballs preventing production. Heartbreaking.
Same here: lefty but mouses with my right hand (which is pretty much the only thing I use my right hand for). Are there actually any lefties who use their left hand to use the mouse? Using the right hand is so much more convenient because then I can simultaneously type with my dominant hand. I'm surprised more righties don't mouse with their left hand, tbh.
Righty and use left hand at my office and right hand at home. CST trackball in both locations. Keeps the wear and exercise even across my left/right hands.
Probably can't effectively play fast-twitch games with my left hand, but only took a couple weeks to get up to speed for normal PC work when I started using my left hand.
Amusingly, I switched to trackball with my right hand from mouse after I'd already been using trackball with my left hand for a while - the muscle memory didn't transfer over, so I was more adept with my left hand for a few weeks until my right caught up.
Symmetric Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse, configured for right-handed use but on the other side of the keyboard. I left-click with my left middle finger, and scroll and right-click with my left index finger.
It's great having the mouse to the left of the keyboard - so much less distance to move my hand when I switch from the keyboard to the mouse!
(I used to just use a mouse right-handed, but then RSI/OOS kicked in and I switched over. I wish I'd done it sooner!)
I can't use thumb balls, I want a large ball. I've bought these continuously since they were first released (now in a wireless version and cheaper buttons, but same basic form factor):
As an ambidextrous-enough person (lefty for a lot of things but write right-handed), for a while my preferred computer setup was a mouse on the left—buttons not swapped, so primary click was on the (stronger) middle finger and right-click/scroll was on the (literally more dexterous) index finger—and a drawing tablet on the right, since I was doing a lot of digital design/painting. Having two pointing devices, one relative and one absolute, felt really useful, as if I could really get in there and manipulate the computer more directly & precisely. Dunno if that was just my perception or if it actually made me any defter.
I love my Trackball Explorer. I was getting wrist pains (RSI) using a normal mouse and so I switched to the Trackball Explorer because when using it the hand is in a natural position and the ball is controlled by your thumb - which has 40% of your hand's neural wiring.
When they were discontinued I bought 2 spares to ensure I could continue to use one. They all still work.
The new Intellimouse preserves the old shape, but ignores the thing that made it legendary in the first place - the MLT04 sensor, which was (entirely accidentally) perfect for FPS gaming. Microsoft don't even mention their choice of sensor for this new mouse, which bodes badly.
Zowie mice have a dominant market share in competitive FPS gaming for good reason. It's refreshing to see a product range designed with such obsessive focus. They don't churn out new models for the sake of it, they don't festoon their products with RGB lighting and unnecessary buttons, they just make the perfect tool for the job.
I have both a Zowie and the new Intellimouse and my Zowie which I have been using for about a year at home is already succumbing to double click issues. The Microsoft mouse I've been using for about 6 months at work and I don't have any complaints yet. I previously used Razer deathadder mouses and found they were also poor quality and started double clicking after a few months of use.
Anecdotal, I have seen Razer mice go bad, but Naga. Various Naga, btw, though admittedly with extensive use. I've also had various Razer keyboards go bad. Deathadder mice, however, have been great for me (I've had two). I even had one of the first for almost ten years. You can replace the feet on these mice, btw, but it isn't well advertised. Also, keeping them clean and having a good mousemat helps. A friend of me had a Razer mouse double click issue (unsure which one) and used a piece of paper to fix it.
The Deathadder was once a legendary good mouse but Razer no longer delivers the quality for the price I'd appreciate. And they seem to focus too much on their disco light BS (Chroma) which I don't need. Their mechanical keyboards are in my experience lousy (Anansi also didn't suit my needs): noisy and cheap key caps. I do like that my BlackWidow has USB passthrough on the right side. Works very well together with YubiKey and/or fingerprint reader.
FWIW, I'm in the market for a new keyboard which can be used for (but not primarily) gaming (don't need dedicated arrow keys, home/end/del/etc nor keypad) but has to be a silent, mechanical keyboard with USB passthrough on the right.
Thanks, just saw it being discussed in another thread. I'd want the black or dark gray one though. Its a big expensive IMO, but I'll consider it once more in a while.
I swear by razors, I've used two DA's over the last 8-10 years. Both succomed to a failing middle button/scroll, and double clicking issues (although only on the middle button for me), but it took about 2~ years for the problem to occur, and another 1~ for it to get"bad", which I considered very acceptable.
I've unfortunately heard that the build quality has dropped in the interim. Don't know how much truth this is, currently debating my next mouse. I would straight drop 1-200$ if I could get a DA form factor/weight but with a better middle button and a handful of more function buttons along the mid-line/sides, _and know that it would last_ but all the options I see nowadays seem to be "From that list, choose ~2 things". If anyone has opinions, I'd be curious to hear, since god knows I trust here more than Amazon/Newegg reviews.
Likewise, my Razer Deathadder's at least (at least!) 8 years old and is my daily driver on my work machine, which sometimes gets appropriated for late night FPS sessions.
it's grotty as hell, but works like a charm.
Just adding this here as I've read a lot of complaints about Razer over the years, but I know complaints are louder and more frequent than quiet appreciation.
The one thing I've never liked about Microsoft mice is that the scroll wheel doesn't click the way it does in everyone else's mice. It's too bad, because everything else about their mice was good, but that scroll wheel was a dealbreaker.
I use the Logitech MX Master, which allows you to turn on and off the clicking. You can even program one of the buttons to turn it on and off.
When I write that out, it seems like a dumb feature, but boy do I use it a lot.
Those are called "detents", and the original IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 had very clicky detents. I'm hoping they bring those back as well, because I agree with you - every mouse MS has produced since then has done away with them, and a lot of other mice from other companies have as well, and I miss them.
It took me a while to find a mouse I was happy with, but now that Razer required me to update my _mouse driver_ for GDPR compliance, I am thinking about switching to this. In general, I like my hardware to come with as little software as possible.
I'm happy with the Logitech G203 and G403 and I'm looking at adding a wireless version as well. Good sensor, software doesn't run in the background and can even be uninstalled.
I have been a long-time fan of the Razer Deathadder, and I was talking to a friend about it the other day and realized that the reason I like it so much is because the form factor is very close to the original IntelliMouse.
That's pretty much why I got it, and now that the original IntelliMouse is back, I don't know if I need the glowing green death mouse of eventual GDPR compliance?
I couldn't stand the constant nagging and focus-stealing the Razer software did regularly. To the point that I just went back and bought the same Logitech mouse that I had been using before (and had broken). That's what I get for trying new things occasionally.
I assume any sensible mouse driver would have the possibility to extend the protocol for more buttons, scroll thingies and, say, rotation, braking, on-mouse output and so on.
There's a flashing LED light inside the thing and the driver controls how the light behaves. I grant that this is at best unnecessary, but let's just say that the market for wired mice with decent ergonomic characteristics and heft is dominated by people who really like flashing LED lights and so I took what I could get.
The Intellimouse Explorer was my favorite, I continued buying them from eBay years after it was discontinued. But these days, Apple’s trackpads are leaps and bounds better.
I'm happy to see this, although it's kind of disappointing that "perfect" products are ever retired in the first place in the constant drive for change, often simply for change's sake. I'm not against improvement, of course - the iPhone X is one of the most perfect products I've ever had the pleasure of owning - but at the same time the current Macbook Pro is the first model I've literally not wanted because of how bad the keyboard is. In chase of form they reduced function.
I suppose it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things but it's encouraging to see MS recognise that all of their "innovations" might have actually been making things worse, and just go back to the old design. Hope it's the start of a trend. MS mice used to be my hands down favourite.
Most likely the plastic molds wore out and the decision came to either spend $100k per mold to restart production or sell a new product. Usually the right thing to do is to modernize the product at this point.
It's not a choice between leaving things alone and change for change's sake.
Molds do not cost that much. The prices you hear quoted for injection molds is to get the molds developed -- the partially trial and error process to get them right.
Once the molds are worked out, getting new ones made is simple and cheap.
Most horrific atrocities born for this quest for continuous employment- "improved" android menus - like the Samsung S8 - which manage to squeeze a additional click into a perfected gesture and lay buttons like the delete picture button near the "back" button.
I would rather write "was homeless" into my resume for those years as a UI/UX-Designer then admit i worked on that team.
> I suppose it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things
This is so true and really becoming a problem in tech. Another good example is Google Maps. The browser version used to be great. And then they went and “improved” it and in the process actually made it harder to use, in my opinion.
> it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it", as Upton Sinclair famously wrote. Product managers (or rather product-people in general, including designers and so on) don't get bonuses for saying "the product is perfect as it is, we'll just keep paying a full team to fix bugs and do basic maintenance, forever".
You'd think you could operate a company with just one shared product team that acts as an internal serial entrepreneur, setting up these self-sustaining operations and then moving on.
Actually, isn't that basically how companies that produce one-off software work? Like game studios, for example. You've got a central pool of "design talent" that doesn't stay on past release, and then you've got "live teams" for each release.
IMHO there is plenty of scope for an 'improved' mouse. We get why there is a dongle (Logitech) as the speed and reliability over Bluetooth is not good for gaming and other performance uses, e.g. Photoshop. However not everyone wants one of their USB ports filled with a dongle so Bluetooth is useful, particularly if using the same mouse on more than one device.
I think there is a market for a mouse that can be either wired or Bluetooth. You could charge it and use it as a normal mouse if plugged in. Or you could use it in Bluetooth mode if not plugged in. This would save on AA batteries plus it would mean you could still use it on a PC where you have just installed the OS and don't have the Bluetooth setup yet.
Such a mouse could also work as a reasonable USB power brick for when your phone has no juice on the commute home.
Add in a small bit of flash storage and such a mouse would be perfect for all kinds of clever things.
Undoubtedly such a mouse would be niche but it could be the de-facto mouse for IT support people.
Logitech already makes that, and while it's expensive, it's one of the best mice I've ever owned. You can use a Logitech dongle, or Bluetooth, or wired. And it can be paired with up to 3 systems.
Alas, it appears you're right. I thought it worked plugged in too, that's a bit silly on their part. I can't imagine it would take a whole lot of effort for them to add the functionality.
Whew! I've replaced the microswitches in mine once already, and a few of the pads are starting to lift. I don't think it would take another round of desoldering...
Ok Logitech, time to follow Microsoft and bring back the wired Logitech Trackman Wheel. The wireless has a different feel and I cannot stand the Logitech dongle.
I use rocketjump ninja for all my mouse reviews, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGJaDZC7PChgd-XMwcbZkiw , I'm not affiliated with him but his mouse reviews are the best I've found anywhere if you wanted comparisons to similar mouses like zowie or deathadder
I've used this since last October. It's pretty slick for a Microsoft mouse.
The movement is precise and snappy, but I'm no gamer so I cannot speak to that. For SysAdmin work, it is a joy to use, WAAAY more fun to use than the provided el cheapo computer mice that register your movement just after you stop moving them.
So they took one of the best ambidextrous mice and made it right handed? Thanks!
But seriously, I know left handers are only 10% of the population, but I'm sick of being left behind, no pun intended. I've been using the Razer Deathadder for years and it's served me well. Well, the ergonomics for that matter anyway. Some of the choices with the structure are questionable at best.
On the inside the mouse is split into two circuit boards and soldered with the cheapest ribbon cable available. The shaft on the scroll wheel is made out of acrylic and while it lets light through for the underlighting pretty well, it's complete crap when durability comes into play. I admittedly get a little heated when playing, but I swear that thing will break just by looking at it. Additionally the switches on the mouse are acceptable at best. After about a year the switches wear out and become squishy.
At this point I'm possibly looking at re-engineering the internals. I have to buy one nearly every year just because they wear out.
I think only the very first version of the IntelliMouse was ambidextrous, all the rest were right handed, including the Explorer 3.0 that this appears to be based off of.
Came to complain about the same thing. I'm not convinced the slight ergonomics on the mouse justifies making it terrible for left-handed use. I must be using the v2 IntelliMouse, as mine (which I've had for years) is ambidextrous.
I'm left handed in everything I do. However I chose to use mice right handed and it's a decision I will never regret.
Keyboard hotkeys are just made to be driven with the left hand while the right hand is free to use a mouse. It would take far too much customization (which not all applications even support) to rebind everything up support left hand mouse usage.
I'm sorta left handed (writing, eating), but mouse right handed, because that's the way every computer was set up when I was growing up. When I got into RTS games, my friends would occasionally note how much of a hotkey whore I was. On games where it was tracked, my hotkey usage blew everyone else's out of the water!
I blame my dad as he was also left handed and moused left handed. I'm currently trying to figure out how to build my own keyboard and remove space around the arrow keys to solve the keyboard issue.
I'm at the point where hotkeying isn't a huge issue. The only one that really bothers me is copy paste, but I'm slowly learning to use shift + insert, ctrl + insert, and shift + delete
What's the point of a wired mouse today? Unless you're a gamer, you should use a wireless mouse. The freedom of movement is really important, and the mouse cord always gets in the way.
To Microsoft: please make a good ergonomic wireless mouse. The Sculpt Ergonomic mouse is OK, but it's kind of old now, and it's too bulky. There is a lot to improve.
Wireless is a pain when you're in an office with 3 square feet per person,and everyone is poluting the spectrum. Wired mice pretty much just work and don't need to be charged or have batteries changed. Getting the cord situated can be an art, but once it's done, it's done.
Wired mice have lower latency, don't have RF interference problems, don't need batteries, and don't require a wiggle to wake them up. But yes, you'll need to deal with a cord. The braided cord that Logitech uses on some models is pretty flexible and soft, and doesn't get hung up too often (unless the cat goes to sleep on it).
MX518 for life, this mouse has been used daily for over 10 years and I have a spare one just in case I need to replace some pieces, which never happened so far.
I do no longer use it for gaming since its now outclassed but it is now being use in my office and may one day die in peace after such a long life span.
I wish they would upgrade the internals and keep the same design which is honestly reliable and comfortable, I have never owned a mouse which fits my hand like this one does.
I think Logitech may be the first and certainly the oldest vendor I've stuck with. Every time I get a new mouse I take the old one to work. I can't recall the last time I had to use a company-issued mouse. The Intellimouse always felt like the Deluxe version of the company issued mouse. No thanks.
In the early days of OS X everyone gnashed their teeth because of Steve Jobs and his stupid obsession with the one button mouse (I love you Steve, but you have never been more wrong in your entire career and should have let it go). I don't think they realized that the mouse wheel Logitech mice worked just fine straight out of the box (no extra drivers for right click or scrolling).
I just bought my 2nd 4000 edition, what do you mean they don't make it? The super updated "surface" one is a bit too much, don't love the keys or the separated number pad so I didn't spring for it.
This. A thousand times, this. I have the 4000 at home and at work. If I could only have it with mechanical switches, insta-buy. I've talked to a few others at work who agree.
Not the person you're replying to, but my problem with the 4000 (and with "wave" and "bowl-shaped" keyboards in general) is that it is too hard for me to memorize the position and orientation of all the keys to the accuracy required for me to avoid RSI.
In contrast, in the old Natural keyboard, all the keys for the left hand inhabited the same plane, and all the keys for the right hand inhabited a second plane -- excepting the arrow keys and the keys above it, which inhabited a third plane. (And when pressed a key would always travel perpendicular to this plane.)
Consequently, once I determined where one key is, it was easier to know where its neighbors are because they are all in the same plane. Ergo I need to remember only 2 quantities, namely how far to the left or the right it is and how many rows forward or back, as opposed to 3 quantities -- or 5 quantities if the keys point in different directions like they do on the Kinesis Advantage and IIRC the 4000.
(And within each plane, the layout of the keys followed very closely to standard layout introduced by IBM with the PS/2, which also helped me keep things memorized.)
The locations of the keys on a Kinesis Advantage are even more impossible for me to memorize to the accuracy I require to avoid RSI!
Now might be a good time to describe my cynical explanation for the many reports that switching from an ordinary keyboard to an "wave" or "bowl-shaped" keyboard helped with recovery from RSI: the massive change in the layout forces the coder to play closer attention to where the keys are, which keeps stress on the coder's hands low. If my cynical explanation is correct, then coders who develop RSI while using a "wave" keyboard would improve if they switch to a standard keyboard (because again the large change in keyboard format would force the coder to play closer attention to the locations of the keys).
But one does not need to switch keyboard formats to pay closer attention to the precise location (and orientation -- the direction the key will move when pressed -- if you are unlucky enough to use a keyboard in which the orientation of each key is different) of each key.
How do you avoid stubbing a toe when you walk around your apartment without shoes? Well, I devote a tiny fraction of my attention to where my feet and all the obstacles are. And I do the same to avoid RSI while typing.
I have to disagree. The only similarity is that it is also an ergo-design. The inward bowl is hard for me to use. A guy at my work has one and due to the way I hold my hands, I can't accurately press any keys in the lower left qwerty layout (shift, z, x, c, ctl, alt, etc). Not to mention, it is absolutely huge with so much space it the middle that feels wasted. I would pay good money for an identical layout to the microsoft ergo 4000. If I had the know-how, I would consider building my own.
I've used the v1, the Elite, the Pro, the 4000, and now the Sculpt Ergonomic (this comment typed on the latter). In my opinion, each has been better than the last.
It is pretty hard for to work in the same room as anyone using anything prior to the 4000, due to the loud spacebar, and even the 4000's spacebar is pretty loud. I do slightly prefer the larger hump of the early keyboards.
The Sculpt Ergonomic is a departure from the large-bodied models of the past, but for those pining for the past, give the present/future a try :).
Microsoft's HID hardware has, in my experience, always been great. Thank you, everyone who has made these tools possible.
The worst part is that the dongles are individually keyed/paired to their respective keyboards. If it breaks or is misplaced, getting another dongle won't work.
The newer Surface Ergonomic keyboard is bluetooth, but it's not a ten-keyless design.
According to the Amazon listing[0], it comes with a "Bluetooth USB Dongle"; if the keyboard runs over BT (vs some proprietary signal like Logitech's stuff all used to), you may have better luck pairing it directly with the OS's bluetooth stack.
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[ 2.1 ms ] story [ 200 ms ] threadReally clean looks, simple, no extra buttons that I never use.
Still I'm glad Microsoft realised there was a lot of demand for this.
Its a shame there aren't more left-handed mouses developed, but the market isn't nearly as big as right handed mouses.
Plus the thing failed to initialize in a few EFI because it takes way too many seconds to start and show up on USB bus.
The replacement Logitech G905 works much better, though it has one fewer usable button.
The supposed successor, the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Mouse [1], doesn't quite feel the same.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Natural-Wireless-Laser-Mous... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Sculpt-Ergonomic-Mouse-L6V-...
https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/mice/mi...
5 buttons (3 customizable * ) * Customization not available on devices running Windows 10 S.
Hadn't heard of Windows 10 S before this. Looks like an attempt to convince people to give MS iOS-like control over their PC in the name of security.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=microsoft%20trackball%2...
Question for the lefties: what kind of pointing device do you prefer? Mouse? Touchpad? Do you prefer to swap L&R clicks when you use other people's computers?
My last two trackballs have been imports from Japan. Apparently somebody claims a patent on the trackball, and sued Logitech, who have since ceased production of them.
Huh? I'm confused.
Thumb: https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-trackball-m5...
Finger: https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/trackman-marble?crid=...
Apparently they won, but decided to drop the product anyway?
Probably can't effectively play fast-twitch games with my left hand, but only took a couple weeks to get up to speed for normal PC work when I started using my left hand.
Amusingly, I switched to trackball with my right hand from mouse after I'd already been using trackball with my left hand for a while - the muscle memory didn't transfer over, so I was more adept with my left hand for a few weeks until my right caught up.
It's great having the mouse to the left of the keyboard - so much less distance to move my hand when I switch from the keyboard to the mouse!
(I used to just use a mouse right-handed, but then RSI/OOS kicked in and I switched over. I wish I'd done it sooner!)
https://www.kensington.com/us/us/4493/trackballs
And for those who loved the old Microspeed trackballs:
http://www.trackballworld.com/
Nowadays I just use the touchpad on my MBP.
When they were discontinued I bought 2 spares to ensure I could continue to use one. They all still work.
https://zowie.benq.com/en/product/mouse.html
The new Intellimouse preserves the old shape, but ignores the thing that made it legendary in the first place - the MLT04 sensor, which was (entirely accidentally) perfect for FPS gaming. Microsoft don't even mention their choice of sensor for this new mouse, which bodes badly.
The Deathadder was once a legendary good mouse but Razer no longer delivers the quality for the price I'd appreciate. And they seem to focus too much on their disco light BS (Chroma) which I don't need. Their mechanical keyboards are in my experience lousy (Anansi also didn't suit my needs): noisy and cheap key caps. I do like that my BlackWidow has USB passthrough on the right side. Works very well together with YubiKey and/or fingerprint reader.
FWIW, I'm in the market for a new keyboard which can be used for (but not primarily) gaming (don't need dedicated arrow keys, home/end/del/etc nor keypad) but has to be a silent, mechanical keyboard with USB passthrough on the right.
I've unfortunately heard that the build quality has dropped in the interim. Don't know how much truth this is, currently debating my next mouse. I would straight drop 1-200$ if I could get a DA form factor/weight but with a better middle button and a handful of more function buttons along the mid-line/sides, _and know that it would last_ but all the options I see nowadays seem to be "From that list, choose ~2 things". If anyone has opinions, I'd be curious to hear, since god knows I trust here more than Amazon/Newegg reviews.
it's grotty as hell, but works like a charm.
Just adding this here as I've read a lot of complaints about Razer over the years, but I know complaints are louder and more frequent than quiet appreciation.
/anecdotage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPTkaqQc0CU&t=342
I use both the receiver and the Bluetooth support, and the three receiver function daily.
I love the shape of the mouse, truly the best mouse I've owned.
To translate them into useful mouse/keyboard events requires a driver. Most programs would ignore a "I just pressed button 6 of 3" event otherwise.
I suppose it's hard for companies to recognise when they're at "peak function" and to just stop changing things but it's encouraging to see MS recognise that all of their "innovations" might have actually been making things worse, and just go back to the old design. Hope it's the start of a trend. MS mice used to be my hands down favourite.
It's not a choice between leaving things alone and change for change's sake.
Once the molds are worked out, getting new ones made is simple and cheap.
I would rather write "was homeless" into my resume for those years as a UI/UX-Designer then admit i worked on that team.
This is so true and really becoming a problem in tech. Another good example is Google Maps. The browser version used to be great. And then they went and “improved” it and in the process actually made it harder to use, in my opinion.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it", as Upton Sinclair famously wrote. Product managers (or rather product-people in general, including designers and so on) don't get bonuses for saying "the product is perfect as it is, we'll just keep paying a full team to fix bugs and do basic maintenance, forever".
Actually, isn't that basically how companies that produce one-off software work? Like game studios, for example. You've got a central pool of "design talent" that doesn't stay on past release, and then you've got "live teams" for each release.
I think there is a market for a mouse that can be either wired or Bluetooth. You could charge it and use it as a normal mouse if plugged in. Or you could use it in Bluetooth mode if not plugged in. This would save on AA batteries plus it would mean you could still use it on a PC where you have just installed the OS and don't have the Bluetooth setup yet.
Such a mouse could also work as a reasonable USB power brick for when your phone has no juice on the commute home.
Add in a small bit of flash storage and such a mouse would be perfect for all kinds of clever things.
Undoubtedly such a mouse would be niche but it could be the de-facto mouse for IT support people.
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/mx-master-2s-flow
I can use it as a Bluetooth mouse, while charging from my USB port, but I can't use it as a USB mouse.
The movement is precise and snappy, but I'm no gamer so I cannot speak to that. For SysAdmin work, it is a joy to use, WAAAY more fun to use than the provided el cheapo computer mice that register your movement just after you stop moving them.
But seriously, I know left handers are only 10% of the population, but I'm sick of being left behind, no pun intended. I've been using the Razer Deathadder for years and it's served me well. Well, the ergonomics for that matter anyway. Some of the choices with the structure are questionable at best.
On the inside the mouse is split into two circuit boards and soldered with the cheapest ribbon cable available. The shaft on the scroll wheel is made out of acrylic and while it lets light through for the underlighting pretty well, it's complete crap when durability comes into play. I admittedly get a little heated when playing, but I swear that thing will break just by looking at it. Additionally the switches on the mouse are acceptable at best. After about a year the switches wear out and become squishy.
At this point I'm possibly looking at re-engineering the internals. I have to buy one nearly every year just because they wear out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IntelliMouse
Keyboard hotkeys are just made to be driven with the left hand while the right hand is free to use a mouse. It would take far too much customization (which not all applications even support) to rebind everything up support left hand mouse usage.
I'm at the point where hotkeying isn't a huge issue. The only one that really bothers me is copy paste, but I'm slowly learning to use shift + insert, ctrl + insert, and shift + delete
To Microsoft: please make a good ergonomic wireless mouse. The Sculpt Ergonomic mouse is OK, but it's kind of old now, and it's too bulky. There is a lot to improve.
Reliability.
I do no longer use it for gaming since its now outclassed but it is now being use in my office and may one day die in peace after such a long life span.
I wish they would upgrade the internals and keep the same design which is honestly reliable and comfortable, I have never owned a mouse which fits my hand like this one does.
In the early days of OS X everyone gnashed their teeth because of Steve Jobs and his stupid obsession with the one button mouse (I love you Steve, but you have never been more wrong in your entire career and should have let it go). I don't think they realized that the mouse wheel Logitech mice worked just fine straight out of the box (no extra drivers for right click or scrolling).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Natural_Keyboard
Just take the 1994 version and remake it in USB, with no other changes whatsoever. Thanks.
The only ergonomic/split layout mechanical keyboards I can find so far are top-end niche products well beyond my price range.
In contrast, in the old Natural keyboard, all the keys for the left hand inhabited the same plane, and all the keys for the right hand inhabited a second plane -- excepting the arrow keys and the keys above it, which inhabited a third plane. (And when pressed a key would always travel perpendicular to this plane.)
Consequently, once I determined where one key is, it was easier to know where its neighbors are because they are all in the same plane. Ergo I need to remember only 2 quantities, namely how far to the left or the right it is and how many rows forward or back, as opposed to 3 quantities -- or 5 quantities if the keys point in different directions like they do on the Kinesis Advantage and IIRC the 4000.
(And within each plane, the layout of the keys followed very closely to standard layout introduced by IBM with the PS/2, which also helped me keep things memorized.)
The locations of the keys on a Kinesis Advantage are even more impossible for me to memorize to the accuracy I require to avoid RSI!
Now might be a good time to describe my cynical explanation for the many reports that switching from an ordinary keyboard to an "wave" or "bowl-shaped" keyboard helped with recovery from RSI: the massive change in the layout forces the coder to play closer attention to where the keys are, which keeps stress on the coder's hands low. If my cynical explanation is correct, then coders who develop RSI while using a "wave" keyboard would improve if they switch to a standard keyboard (because again the large change in keyboard format would force the coder to play closer attention to the locations of the keys).
But one does not need to switch keyboard formats to pay closer attention to the precise location (and orientation -- the direction the key will move when pressed -- if you are unlucky enough to use a keyboard in which the orientation of each key is different) of each key.
How do you avoid stubbing a toe when you walk around your apartment without shoes? Well, I devote a tiny fraction of my attention to where my feet and all the obstacles are. And I do the same to avoid RSI while typing.
It is pretty hard for to work in the same room as anyone using anything prior to the 4000, due to the loud spacebar, and even the 4000's spacebar is pretty loud. I do slightly prefer the larger hump of the early keyboards.
The Sculpt Ergonomic is a departure from the large-bodied models of the past, but for those pining for the past, give the present/future a try :).
Microsoft's HID hardware has, in my experience, always been great. Thank you, everyone who has made these tools possible.
I wish MS made a wired version of it. At least on MacOS, the dongle seems to be a perennial problem when new OS versions emerge.
[0]: https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Ergonomic-Wireless-Desktop-...