Intimidation tactics like this is how these organizations operate in situations like this. It's been this way for a long time. Read up on the CIA and FBI getting in each other's way in the Hoover era. They pulled all sorts of crap like this. It's not every former administration has been standing in the way of behavior like this and now suddenly the floodgates are open and the departments in the executive branch feel empowered to oppress and intimidate anyone they see as a threat, they've been doing it all along. Maybe they're less subtle now, I dunno.
It's only now that we have a POTUS that everyone hates that people are taking notice how foul the rest of the executive branch really is.
Edit: I know that lunch hour in CA is exactly the wrong time to post something like this but please actually try and refute something I'm saying instead of mashing the downvote button like you're on Reddit. We're supposed to be able to have adult discussion around here.
I do think it's less subtle as POTUS has made it very clear he has zero qualms with lying routinely about almost everything, and with strongarm tactics and intimidation. But the culture of secrecy, intimidation, and public misdirection has been there from the beginning, and not just by happenstance but by necessity. If you can convince yourself, as a member of DHS/CIA/FBI/etc. that whatever project you're working on (like, say, wiretapping MLK) is for National Security, then the ends justify the means.
>Edit: I know that lunch hour in CA is exactly the wrong time to post something like this but please actually try and refute something I'm saying instead of mashing the downvote button like you're on Reddit. We're supposed to be able to have adult discussion around here.
Not sure why you are sneering at CA. Californians are just as American as the rest of the country, and in this case the issue at hand was in California.
People seem to easily forget the American government reaction to the civil rights movement, anti-Vietnam War movement, and so much more. Violence, coercion, intimidation and breaking its own laws without consequence are the American modus operandi. How did fire-hosing, beating, jailing and murdering black people not prove this? How about tear gas and dogs being let loose on protesting students? The conduct of the FBI during the Red Scare? Iran Contra?
How about what Snowden revealed? Torture after 9-11?
A little time passes and people get back to calling anyone who thinks that a militarize police force isn’t a good thing un-American and kooky.
Yes, and it's a little... hypocritical? For a nation that is self-congratulatory to the point of nausea in it's rebellious origins, our institutions will repeatedly overextend themselves to prevent people from effecting positive disruptive change.
1. ICE [Immigration Control] planned to raid Oakland for illegal immigrants.
2. Somehow, Oakland's mayor found out and warned the community (Oakland, SF, and California are very pro-immigrant). This obviously gave opportunity for some immigrants to elude the raid.
3. Feeling undermined, Jeff sessions claimed that "ICE failed to make 800 arrests" because of the mayor's statement.
4. James Schwab, who this article is about, identifies that as an outright lie, because "We ended up arresting 232, which is 16 percent higher than our highest estimates." Thus the 800 figure would be an outright fabrication. He was asked not to contradict this lie, and morally objected, resigned, and blew the moral whistle on the whole situation.
5. In the middle of the CBS interview, at his house, some very intimidating DHS officers came by, unannounced, who seemed to suggest that Schwab had leaked the information to Oakland's mayor (which he cooly dismisses is entirely false and spurious).
6. The officers appear retreat once they realize they are on camera.
> Before the surprise visit, Schwab told Yuccas that both the Obama and Trump White Houses asked him to "spin" information.
If they would talk about how "both sides of the aisle" were doing this, it would make it non-partisan, more news outlets would discuss it, and maybe there would be actions taken.
> If they would talk about how "both sides of the aisle" were doing this, it would make it non-partisan
He told the reporter that never before had he been asked to actually lie.
There is a difference between truthful statements that deflect attention from one place to another and outright lies (be they lies of omission or commission), and it would be a counterfactual interpretation of the interview to report he said both sides of the aisle asked him to lie. They didn’t. That’s why he resigned, because this was something new and different and serious.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 55.5 ms ] threadIt's only now that we have a POTUS that everyone hates that people are taking notice how foul the rest of the executive branch really is.
Edit: I know that lunch hour in CA is exactly the wrong time to post something like this but please actually try and refute something I'm saying instead of mashing the downvote button like you're on Reddit. We're supposed to be able to have adult discussion around here.
I do think it's less subtle as POTUS has made it very clear he has zero qualms with lying routinely about almost everything, and with strongarm tactics and intimidation. But the culture of secrecy, intimidation, and public misdirection has been there from the beginning, and not just by happenstance but by necessity. If you can convince yourself, as a member of DHS/CIA/FBI/etc. that whatever project you're working on (like, say, wiretapping MLK) is for National Security, then the ends justify the means.
Not sure why you are sneering at CA. Californians are just as American as the rest of the country, and in this case the issue at hand was in California.
How about what Snowden revealed? Torture after 9-11?
A little time passes and people get back to calling anyone who thinks that a militarize police force isn’t a good thing un-American and kooky.
1. ICE [Immigration Control] planned to raid Oakland for illegal immigrants.
2. Somehow, Oakland's mayor found out and warned the community (Oakland, SF, and California are very pro-immigrant). This obviously gave opportunity for some immigrants to elude the raid.
3. Feeling undermined, Jeff sessions claimed that "ICE failed to make 800 arrests" because of the mayor's statement.
4. James Schwab, who this article is about, identifies that as an outright lie, because "We ended up arresting 232, which is 16 percent higher than our highest estimates." Thus the 800 figure would be an outright fabrication. He was asked not to contradict this lie, and morally objected, resigned, and blew the moral whistle on the whole situation.
5. In the middle of the CBS interview, at his house, some very intimidating DHS officers came by, unannounced, who seemed to suggest that Schwab had leaked the information to Oakland's mayor (which he cooly dismisses is entirely false and spurious).
6. The officers appear retreat once they realize they are on camera.
If they would talk about how "both sides of the aisle" were doing this, it would make it non-partisan, more news outlets would discuss it, and maybe there would be actions taken.
He told the reporter that never before had he been asked to actually lie.
There is a difference between truthful statements that deflect attention from one place to another and outright lies (be they lies of omission or commission), and it would be a counterfactual interpretation of the interview to report he said both sides of the aisle asked him to lie. They didn’t. That’s why he resigned, because this was something new and different and serious.
[edit to add the quotation for context]