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Poll: Do you have Silverlight installed?

44 points by huhtenberg ↗ HN
Just curious what the state of affairs is.

115 comments

[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 147 ms ] thread
mike_h
Netflix requires it last I checked -- that's the only reason I'm aware of for having it.
nuclear_eclipse
Does Netflix work with Moonlight on Linux? I would loze to be using Netflix on my second monitor while playing games or just surfing the net, but they don't support Linux... :(
Roboprog
Just so you all know, the Netflix browse / order interface works fine w/out Silverlight. But instant watch requires Silverlight with full DRM (so, alas, not Moonlight on Linux). This is the main reason I have a few dual boot PCs. I dislike Microsoft, but not to the point of shooting my own foot.
reitzensteinm
I was about to answer no, but apparently I do:

http://www.silverlightversion.com/

Does it install with Windows Update automatically or something?

dagw
Same here. I honestly don't recall installing it, but apparently I must have at some point.
pornel
Flip4Mac (WMV codec) installer comes with persona non grata.
kihlasht
This must be fairly recent; I have Flip4Mac installed but do not have Silverlight installed.
RK
Firefox 3.6 on Ubuntu 10.4 and the site said:

Your installed version of Silverlight is: 0.0.00000.0

So I'm guessing no...

reitzensteinm
I do not understand what's going through the mind of a developer who makes a site to display a software version number and does not have a special case for not installed. Incredible.
pan69
I guess he was making a site to get the Silverlight version, not whether it was installed or not.
gruseom
Perhaps he is a Javascript programmer who thinks that zero means no.
aerique
You have zero cakes. Can you give me one?
mseebach
You have $0 in your account. Do you exist?
StavrosK
It's Microsoft software. Who would not have it?! Clearly adding the code branch is an unnecessary waste of time.
hx
No, they have a special case for not installed...you just need silverlight to display it.
Hexstream
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Press any key to continue.

thebigshane 

        function doit(){
            var parts = Array("ver-major", "ver-minor", "ver-build", "ver-revision");
            
            //try firefox/non-IE version.
            var nav = navigator.plugins["Silverlight Plug-In"];
            if (nav) {
                for (var i = 0; i < 4; i++) {
                    document.getElementById(parts[i]).innerHTML = parseInt(nav.description.split(".")[i]).toString();   //getControl().isVersionSupported("2.0"); 
                }
            } else {
                //try the IE one now.
                try {
                    var control = new ActiveXObject('AgControl.AgControl');
                    //the following would be faster with a binary search, but this is "fast enough" for now. 
                    var vers = Array(1, 0, 0, 0);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 0, 1);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 1, 1);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 2, 10000);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 2, 1000);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 2, 100);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 2, 10);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 2, 1);
                    loopMatch(control, vers, 3, 1);
                    for (var i = 0; i < 4; i++) {
                        document.getElementById(parts[i]).innerHTML = vers[i].toString();
                    }
                } catch (e) {
                    document.getElementById("vers-discrete").innerHTML = "Silverlight not installed.";
                }
            }
        }
        function loopMatch(control, vers, idx, inc) {
            while(IsSupported(control, vers)){
                vers[idx]+=inc;
            }
            vers[idx] -= inc;
        }
        function IsSupported(control, ver){
            return control.isVersionSupported(ver[0]+ "."+ ver[1] + "." + ver[2] + "." + ver[3]);
        }
        
        doit();
All I can say is... "interesting"

EDIT: that is the code they are using as of this posting

boomhauer
hey, you found my crappy little site ;) the IE version will correctly state "not installed" but apparently the FF/Non-IE is returning a non-null nav object, thus printing the zeros. btw- the reason for creating this site- extracting the exact version number is not straightforward, for some reason. MS decided to let us have isVersionSupported(), instead of a simple getVersion() or similiar. Thus, loop it.
thebigshane
Yea, I thought your approach was interesting (as is typical in most code reviews) but I was also amazed at the non-straightforwardness of getting said version number.

EDIT: Also, a lot of commenters here are just making jokes (funny ones, sure) but not actually looking at or considering the code required to get the version number.

RK
Taking a page from the myriad of sites that require cookies and when cookies are not enabled throw up some horribly cryptic error unrelated to cookies or fail completely.
barrettcolin
The Steam hardware survey:

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

now includes software, which includes Silverlight.

simonw
I'm impressed that 3.21% of Windows users with Steam installed don't have the Flash Player.
ElbertF
They could be Linux/Mac users who solely boot into Windows to play games.
rodion_89
On both my Windows and Mac machines, I use Chrome which comes with Flash. So I didn't do a system wide install for Flash at all and thus Steam doesn't see that I have it installed anywhere even though I do.
Tangurena
To get rid of browser crashes, I browse without flash installed, or disabled, whichever is appropriate for the computer in use.

With ad banners in flash, and several per page, all it takes is one poorly written flash app to take down all the browser tabs I've got open.

barrettcolin
I think at one point the survey listed the number of samples; now it just seems to be percentages which isn't as useful. Anecdotally the survey has a lot of respondents (as in, a majority of the Steam userbase) but you never know.
hx
Realistically the Steam survey is likely to be better & more accurate than anything else out there. (Thats aside from the obvious gamer bias)
[dead] cleverjake
Yes, begrudgingly. Only for netflix. I really wish they offered another option, as it is incredibly frustrating to run windows JUST for netflix.
[dead] briandu
The winter olympics coverage required silverlight, I believe. That's why I put it on my computer.
weel
I have Moonlight installed on Linux, so I checked "Yes" for lack of a "sorta" option. Moonlight seems to be good enough to get to the few Silverlight sites I need (several European TV broadcasters...)
acqq
...and not good enough to play the Feynman lectures billg bought and now serves in the Silverlight-only form. I think the reason is that there's no DRM handling in Moonlight. I expect that a lot of Silverlight content will remain inaccessible in Moonlight.
ntoshev
Now I feel less guilty for refusing to install Moonlight on my Ubuntu laptop and downloading Feynman lectures from isohunt torrents instead.
acqq
So I guess we can thank Bill Gates for personally financing ("Tuva project: powered by Silverlight") the nice argument to avoid Moonlight and Silverlight: there's still the DRM (not included in Moonlight) to worry about. Even if he fixes the mentioned site, I hope the awareness remains.
weel
I have found that it helps sometimes, but not always, to right click the Moonlight plugin and choose "install microsoft codecs" from the menu.
boards2x
No. The only time I had it installed was when I upgraded Flip4Mac and didn't notice they've added it. You can disable it clicking on "Customize" during installation.
moe
Every time the "install silverlight?"-prompt comes up, I consciously refuse it.

My reasoning goes like this:

1. It happens very rarely (less than once a month) and is usually triggered by some embedded eyecandy that I don't want to see anyways. I have not yet missed out on anything because I didn't have silverlight.

2. I have suffered through flash with all its browser-crashes, security problems and other annoyances for a decade. I strictly refuse to support the adoption a new plugin-technology that would only cause me more of the same pain.

3. Silverlight being a Microsoft technology, Microsoft being the company that makes my life miserable with MSIE, doesn't help my sympathy either.

Thus, I know I'm just one little datapoint in everyone's server-logs, but I take care to ensure this datapoint will always read "Silverlight not available".

JMiao
yes, netflix streaming.
jasonkester
There are just so few sites that require Sliverlight that I find myself mildly offended when I come across one that tries to make me install it. Who are you, telling me to install something just to view your website? Good day, sir.

Funny that that's never been my experience with Flash. Flash sites are horrible and I avoid them if I can, but Flash can socially engineer its way onto my machine through cool little in-browser games, whereas Silverlight just wants to "enhance" my viewing of MSDN.

I think Microsoft's BizSpark site actually requires Silverlight, so once every year or so, one of my machines gets to install it so that I can renew my MSDN subscription and get the latest version of VS.NET. That's enough of a reason for me, since it's something I absolutely can't do without, but I couldn't imagine expecting my users to install it just to visit my website.

cies
i second this. if i have to install silverlight for a web app that'd be something els.. but silverlight on a public website is an offence.

flash is too to some degree.

somehow i think they will both not survive this decade.

makmanalp
AFAIK netflix requires silverlight nowadays.
tsuraan
I believe netflix PC streaming requires silverlight, but I know their general site doesn't. The silverlight requirement for streaming probably isn't something people usually even notice, since they also stream to roku, xbox, ps3, and a ton of televisions have the ability built-in.
atomical
"Funny that that's never been my experience with Flash. Flash sites are horrible and I avoid them if I can, but Flash can socially engineer its way onto my machine through cool little in-browser games, whereas Silverlight just wants to "enhance" my viewing of MSDN."

I have played quite a few Silverlight games. Why the attitude towards something that adds more functionality?

jasonkester
It's the "why" that makes it funny for me. I have no idea why I mind Flash less than Silverlight. It certainly has nothing to do with Microsoft.

Maybe it's that there's already a Flash. And I already downloaded it and installed it. If you want to give me Flash-like content, go nuts, but do it with the Flash that I already have. There's no real reason to have built a second one, so I don't see any reason why I should have to install it. So I don't.

robryan
For a .net developer, using silverlight to tie into things they already have makes a lot more sense than flash which would result in a somewhat parallel code base in something completely different.

I guess if silverlight was the accepted plugin and flash was the newer player your feelings would be reversed.

jasonkester
Ah, but as developers our opinions don't matter at all. It's all about what our end-users want, and they clearly don't wan't to install Silverlight. The fact that it's 10x easier for me as a C# guy to write my thing against Silverlight has exactly zero bearing on my decision to build a product in it. Users won't install it, so it's just bad business to build software for it.

And yes, naturally, if the other thing was the accepted thing, I would be happy to accept it and not the other one. Like I say, there's no bias against one or the other. I (and seemingly everybody) simply don't want both.

robryan
I guess in a way it's aimed at enterprise custom stuff, a company running a .NET app can get it turned into a web app far cheaper with silverlight. That's the only place I have been exposed to it while interning. I personally wouldn't use it for anything but am happy to install the plugin as long as it doesn't noticeably degrade performance.
atomical
What if Silverlight performs better in the long run and uses less resources than HTML5 and Flash? I would prefer to see a war between Flash, Silverlight, and HTML5.

Sure open standards and all but the user may prefer something totally different. They may not want the fans on the back of their computer to spin up every time they go to an interactive website.

ajuc
So far I only encountered 1 site that required silverlight to work (onet.pl public video streaming), I have linux, so I installed moonlight, it almost worked, but then I've learned that they also use some DRM that only works on Mac and Windows (also - it told me firefox is not supported :)).

For me using silverlight is like telling people to keep away.

adlep
Greetings to a fellow Pole. <Borat's Voice>"Jak sie masz?"</Borat's Voice>
ajuc
:) Greetings to you too.
avar
Bing Maps requires Silverlight for some features. I found that out when I tried Bing recently, but found that Microsoft is more interested in pushing their own technology than pushing their search engine.

Microsoft also recently did a project with NASA that requires Silverlight. Thanks, Microsoft.

generalk
To be fair, if you wrote a browser plugin like Silverlight, wouldn't you do the majority of your projects in it?
avar
The effort to port it to Flash or JavaScript as a fallback mechanism is hardly a major undertaking for a company like Microsoft.

That they're doing this when that means blocking out a huge portion of users on Bing Maps when their main competitor has no such portability problems I think says a great deal about their priorities.

mcav
You can't port Silverlight to Flash or Javascript because Flash and Javascript don't provide direct system access needed to emulate many of Silverlight's features.
PhrosTT
the SL enabled Bing Maps is amazing. Try it if you haven't. - hit the 3D button.
avar
Does it work on Ubuntu with Moonlight? I don't have any machine with a proprietary OS.
CaptainN
That's not Silverlight. It doesn't work on Mac. IE makes you download a setup file for "3D Bing Maps" app.
rg
hit the 3D button -- "not supported on Chrome"
srwh
Funny that ten years ago some of our website visitors complained about requiring javascript to use the site ;-)
arikb
JavaScript never required proprietary development tools
angstrom
I have it because one of the few sites (netflix) uses it to keep movies full screen on my secondary monitor. Flash will automatically kick back to the original window size whenever doing a user action on another monitor.
mseebach
Ryanairs route map requires Silverlight. I wonder if whatever Microsoft paid for that is more than lost revenue from customers exploring potential destinations.
kingofspain
Ryanair probably don't care. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if they chose it purposefully to make things difficult. The more hoops you're willing to jump through, the more they can generally get away with. Plus never underestimate the lengths people will go to for a £1 flight (I include myself in that, even though every part of my being tells me I'm being ridiculous).
sireat
Ryanair just saw it as free money... they do not need customers exploring potential destinations, their customers know where they want to go, and they want to go there for cheap.

I say this is half in jest, but wonder how much of that is true.

frou_dh
I recently uninstalled both Silverlight and Flash. Hasn't really hindered me, so far.

Though .NET is pretty cool so I'm not especially hostile to Silverlight.

johncoltrane
Yes. I'm somehow forced to have it since I do occasional SL work as a part of my job. That said, beside testing my stuff I've never encountered a Silverlight based site in the wild. Not that there are none, of course.
davidw
I use 'moonlight' to watch bicycle racing on RAI3. If it weren't for that, it'd be gone in a second.
andrewf
On my desktop - yes. Thanks to fixplay.ninemsn.com.au - one of the Australian TV network's "watch our shows over the Internet" site.

On my two laptops: no.

AgentConundrum
Apparently I do, but I really don't remember installing it.
StavrosK
I guess yes, I have Mono...
phamilton
Netflix watch instantly needs it. No way around that.
aaronbrethorst
Use an iPad, iPhone, Xbox 360, Wii, or PS3.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
recoiledsnake
Interestingly, all of those platforms are locked down by the companies that manufacture them. A case of the cure being worse than the disease.
cristianca
I can say Yes and No. At work I have it installed, at home nope.
warp
Video streaming performance of silverlight seems better compared to flash, on those sites which support it (e.g. on demand viewing of dutch public tv, omroep.nl). So I have it installed on the machines I use to consume online media.

I do not have flash nor silverlight installed on my development machines, because I can live without the distractions :)

rue
Yes, I have a similar experience with Eurosport's player. On my regular Macbook Flash streaming is somewhere around 80-90%, Silverlight manages at about 50%.

I probably would not have subscribed to it if Silverlight had been a requirement at the time, though. I have no use for it otherwise.

unhammer
The only site I've wanted to use that wanted me to install Silverlight was tv2.no, but I managed to make it work with gecko-mediaplayer (though I had to right-click the movie, select settings, audio and correct audio channel in order to get sound...not sure why that couldn't be correctly set by default). Other than that, I've fortunately never needed Silverlight.
yankcrime
It's been sat there in my 'suggested Windows' updates ever since I installed Windows 7, and I haven't yet found a reason to actually acknowledge it. So, no.
loewenskind
No. We tried this already with Java applets. The fact that MS didn't cancel Silverlight the instant HTML5 started getting traction is yet another sign that they just can't follow what's going on (having made it to begin with is another).
Qz
From what I hear, it's basically their dev platform for WP7, in the same way that Apple hasn't canceled CocoaTouch and google hasn't binned Android. HTML5 is not the be all end all of the internet (yet).
loewenskind
Silverlight is like Java applets, not like CocoaTouch or Android. With such bizarre unrelated comparisons why didn't you also point out that Ford still makes the Mustang?
contextfree
Huh? CocoaTouch is the standard API for iPhone, Silverlight is the standard API for Windows Phone 7. How is it an unrelated comparison?
warbo
Haven't been near Silverlight and never plan to. Did tell someone to install Moonlight once so that they could watch ITV (UK) online, but the only alternative there was to pay the BBC a license fee for watching other people's channels (get_iplayer is perfect for the BBC's own)
pepijndevos
All sorts of apps sneak it onto my computer, just like Growl(which I had anyway). I just stopped bothering every time. So I think I'm using the version that shipped with Flip4mac on the last update.
jlangenauer
I have it. Deliberately installed it as the UI people where I'm contracting insist on delivering UI mock-ups in something called SketchFlow - which doesn't seem too bad.