The government narrative is it was a drone attack, but there doesn't seem to be any footage to show that. Has anything been released to verify the attack as being from drones?
Even if not real, half of the people at HN could probably pull off the real thing or far worse -- fortunately the good people here are mainly rational and peaceful, but the rest of humanity isn't always so. I can't help but feel that some nasty bottle has just been uncorked.
The article says an unknown group called "Soldiers in Tshirts" claimed responsibility and said that army snipers shot down the drones. But, the group didn't respond to interview requests and firefighters at the scene said it was a gas tank explosion at an apartment building.
The burn marks on the building look like a few stories tall and a few apartments wide. If it was an aerial explosion is seemed like a pretty big one.
Using radio spectrum detection methods is probably effective against the script kiddies of the drone world, but to sell the idea that this could defend motivated, funded attackers, operating with murderous intent, feels like The Illusion of Safety and a heaping spoonful of snake oil at best.
Serious combatants will not be using wifi/cellular 4G LTE drones they bought off the shelf at Best Buy. Or, I mean maybe they will be in the picture but as decoys, why not?
The point being, that obviously a kamikaze DJI drone is some simple simon nonsense, and I would not bet my life on a team of corporate product managers selling some agile/scrum developed MVP product line that relies on sniffing for consumer band radio telemetry.
> Serious combatants will not be using wifi/cellular 4G LTE drones they bought off the shelf at Best Buy.
ISIS was using DJI drones[0] effectively[1][3]. There’s even been drone swarms using commercial drones in Ukraine.[2]. Even well funded armies like the IDF are using these things.[4] Weaponizing hobby drones has been happening for a long time now.
> Serious combatants will not be using wifi/cellular 4G LTE drones
if you precalculated its path, you could probably navigate by inertial methods using gyros/accelerometers allowing you to be completely dark in the RF spectrum.
You probably don't even need to do that. Facial recognition is to the point where a drone can navigate to a predefined area and find a specific person before detonating. Especially in a situation like this where a politician is giving a speech at a very specific known location (i.e. behind the podium on the platform).
There are a few companies working on drone detection and anti-drone technology. I believe Black Sage ([1], based in Boise) provides protection tech for military applications and for venues like sports stadiums.
EMP blast, nets, lasers, signal jamming - there are a few ideas but nothing full proof.
I've heard of multiple people just shooting then down if they trespass, so there's always guns.
I can't remember the article but I saw on HN a story where law enforcement triangulated a drone operator who was doing something criminal like smuggling. I'm sure that would be just as beneficial for deterrence if the operator knew they would be found.
Serious question: Has there ever been an actual weaponized EMP on any scale? I’ve never heard of one, and there seems to be real doubt among nuclear arms control experts that this is likely or even possible in a practical sense.
I think just the act of detonating a nuke sets off an EMP. However all electronics getting fried just before the entire city is incinerated ranks pretty low on the priority list.
Well that's kind of the thing right? Once you launch your ICBM, the fate of your cities are already sealed. On top of that, the effects seem to be highly variable. From a practical point of view, you might as well just use them in a traditional manner.
I am assuming you are talking about countering drones in a civilian, non-war setting. Because drones are no use in a war against any nation with any semblance of an air force at all.
I think of Sebastian Junger's observation about the war in Afghanistan: "Each Javelin round costs $80,000, and the idea that it's fired by a guy who doesn't make that in a year at a guy who doesn't make that in a lifetime is somehow so outrageous it almost makes the war seem winnable."
Very very pithy and revealing info you have provided above.
Of course, the rocket is forcibly billed to the US taxpayer because of corporate lobbying and the demands of shareholders and politicians alike.
At this point, I would almost rather us be forcibly billed the $80,000, and just let the missiles rot. They provide negative value to this Earth when used.
So how does your air force help you against a hundred C4 packed drones swarming your soldiers? A drone costs almost nothing compared to anything an air craft can shoot at it.
What a doom and gloom-ish video. I understand that AI is a powerful technology that can be misused, but so just like all other technologies.
This is plain FUD, using popular science fictional dystopia to send some kind of political message. It's trying to appeal to the lower intelligence of people to pretend something bad can happen.
In the end, the military will work on those kinds of techs even if the public doesn't like it.
I was able to get invited to hikvision's main product showcase/"museum" in China to see all the products that they make - including the above referenced drone jammer...And they do some pretty awesome (and scary!) stuff. I'm sure there are plenty other companies throughout the world which produce similar drone jammer products too. (Its just that this jammer, i actually saw in person.)
Did this even happen? Initial reports were that firefighters on the scene were disputing that a drone attack even happened, but rather a gas tank exploded in a kitchen in a building across the street. (You can see the building in the above link.) See at the 7:10 reporting mark in https://apnews.com/db760dac560840309cd320648ba12c9a
No, verwirren comes from the same root, it's not the source of war. Your statement is the etymological equivalent of saying that humans descended from modern chimpanzees.
This is what I heard from a friend who is in Venezuela. Your comment is only the 2nd time where I’ve seen mention of the firefighters.
Here in the US all the major newspapers (nyt, wsj, wapo) are going with drone attack because it’s the official statement from the Venezuelan government, but they’re not even mentioning the firefighters, from what I’ve seen.
The other thing that seems odd is that they jumped immediately to blaming Columbia prior to this previously unknown group claiming responsibility. I would think something like this would take a few days before blame could be properly assessed, especially if it was a state (or state supported) actor.
There's no point to that type of speculation. Maybe got pushed. Maybe he fainted. I was at a concert a couple of weeks ago, and the guy standing in front of me just suddenly fell over backwards unconscious. Things happen. You can't tell from either angle I've seen.
I was interested in whatever his point was, and I can see why including some video from the show is helpful since thats whats being referenced. However, it just takes too long for video to convey the info. Just not the right format to keep my attention.
EDIT:
And no, adding more "excitement" to the video is not going to help
YouTube pays more for longer videos, hence the format of making a point repeatedly and only adding new information as rarely as possible during the video.
What would the right format be? There's a lot of information in there, and I think one of the things that the video does well is expanding out soundbites
Basically the format of a scholarly article with summary, intro/background, evidence (+ methods), interpretation, authors conclusion. The videos under discussion here would be part of "evidence".
I need to be able to skip around to see if there is something there to pique my interest. Having to wait through the video to even find out what exactly this will be about is just too slow so I closed it.
You don't need vast conspiracy of hoarders, wreckers, saboteurs and kulaks to explain John Oliver not caring about getting facts right (on any subject).
Yes, it's important to note that the "Right" in Venezuela, aided by the US, is the most likely culprit in these assassination attempts. This is the same "Right" that has a monopoly on certain foodstocks, such as butter and flour and has been stock-piling them, while the US media reports on food shortages as a socialist problem.
>"This is the same "Right" that has a monopoly on certain foodstocks, such as butter and flour and has been stock-piling them"
I don't know the details but is "the right" being conflated with some form of "prepper" here? Eg people who saw these shortages coming started stockpiling resources and people who trusted the government would figure things out, or didnt have the means to stockpile, didnt do so?
In a country with nationalized agriculture. With a socialist government for the last 19 years. Did Chavez and Maduro forget to redistribute all the wheat and dairy when doing their land reform?
Where exactly are these kulaks getting their butter and flour to hoard? Why have the PSUV and Maduro's planned economy not decreed their monopoly over?
How does one even stockpile butter? You can't hold onto it indefinitely waiting for more favorable market conditions. The butter is either available or not. If not, the socialist government has screwed up.
Wow! Is this criticism actually real!? Or is this a conspiracy video?
In the past I found John Oliver humorous but I've recently noticed his bias and how he conveniently ignores certain facts in order to make a joke.
I would add that the opposition may fear for their lives and may want to avoid appearing in public near Maduro supporters. MSM tries very hard to make Venezuela appear to be like Russia - a sham democracy.
I find it shocking that anyone can defend the government of Venezuela with a straight face. The country is demonstrably worse today than it was before Chavez was elected. 90% of the country now lives in poverty, inflation is likely to reach 1,000,000% this year (not a typo), infant mortality rates are soaring, Caracas has the highest murder rate in the world, and the average Venezuelan lost 11 kilograms in weight during 2017.
The blame for this situation rests solely on the shoulders of the Venezuelan government. They created a house of cards when they nationalized the PDVSA and coupled their entire country to a single commodity. Like all toxic people they wish to blame someone else for their problems, in this case the United States. For those who believe the United States is to blame for all of their problems how do you reconcile the fact that the US is still their largest trading partner. Have you read any of the sanctions that the US has placed on Venezuela? I'll link you to them, each runs about 2 pages each.[0] How do financial sanctions targeted at 7 government officials in 2015 explain a country collapsing in 2013? Does toilet paper production run on time travel?
Please note the journalist talking in this video is working for a website that's part of a Venezuelan state funded media outlet. It's interesting to get some opposing views, but the truth ous probably somewhere in the middle.
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[ 4.4 ms ] story [ 118 ms ] threadI see companies trying to protect against them, like Dedrone [1] -- how effective are these?
I imagine most here have seen it, but if not, you must see the slaughterbots video. [2]
[1] https://www.dedrone.com/
[2] https://youtu.be/9CO6M2HsoIA
The government narrative is it was a drone attack, but there doesn't seem to be any footage to show that. Has anything been released to verify the attack as being from drones?
The burn marks on the building look like a few stories tall and a few apartments wide. If it was an aerial explosion is seemed like a pretty big one.
Serious combatants will not be using wifi/cellular 4G LTE drones they bought off the shelf at Best Buy. Or, I mean maybe they will be in the picture but as decoys, why not?
The point being, that obviously a kamikaze DJI drone is some simple simon nonsense, and I would not bet my life on a team of corporate product managers selling some agile/scrum developed MVP product line that relies on sniffing for consumer band radio telemetry.
ISIS was using DJI drones[0] effectively[1][3]. There’s even been drone swarms using commercial drones in Ukraine.[2]. Even well funded armies like the IDF are using these things.[4] Weaponizing hobby drones has been happening for a long time now.
[0] https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/mb9wmb/isis-will-no-long...
[1] (content warning: the propaganda video linked to i this article shows a death.) https://www.funker530.com/abrams-tank-commander/
[2] https://globalnews.ca/news/4236518/the-new-drone-warfare/
[3] https://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/uas/2018/01/05/how-650-dro...
[4] https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/06/18/first-isis-i...
if you precalculated its path, you could probably navigate by inertial methods using gyros/accelerometers allowing you to be completely dark in the RF spectrum.
[1]: https://www.blacksagetech.com/
I've heard of multiple people just shooting then down if they trespass, so there's always guns.
I can't remember the article but I saw on HN a story where law enforcement triangulated a drone operator who was doing something criminal like smuggling. I'm sure that would be just as beneficial for deterrence if the operator knew they would be found.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-overrated-threat-from-e...
Still plenty of consumer models have full autonomous modes guided by gps, so I guess that's got to be part of the mix too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electronics_High_Power...
If you weren't so polemic, you would be able to understand that quadcopters are a cost efficient and highly effective form factor.
Of course, the rocket is forcibly billed to the US taxpayer because of corporate lobbying and the demands of shareholders and politicians alike.
At this point, I would almost rather us be forcibly billed the $80,000, and just let the missiles rot. They provide negative value to this Earth when used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andersen_Air_Force_Base#/media...
All within 2 miles of a public highway. Better start building more ramp space at Diego Garcia.
This is plain FUD, using popular science fictional dystopia to send some kind of political message. It's trying to appeal to the lower intelligence of people to pretend something bad can happen.
In the end, the military will work on those kinds of techs even if the public doesn't like it.
This kind of tech would be specific to the military, it would be limited to military use, never civilian.
Hikvision also sells the drones, and a bunch of other accessories. Scroll down to page 9 of the following PDF: http://oversea-download.hikvision.com/uploadfile/Leaflet/Bro...
I was able to get invited to hikvision's main product showcase/"museum" in China to see all the products that they make - including the above referenced drone jammer...And they do some pretty awesome (and scary!) stuff. I'm sure there are plenty other companies throughout the world which produce similar drone jammer products too. (Its just that this jammer, i actually saw in person.)
Also, there was a report that journalists were arrested immediately after the explosion. Which seems rather odd. https://twitter.com/jake_hanrahan/status/1025905621646929920...
The root of "war" is the German verwirren:
"to confuse, perplex"), from PIE wers- (1) "to confuse, mix up". Cognates suggest the original sense was "to bring into confusion."*
https://www.etymonline.com/word/war
Mission accomplished.
Here in the US all the major newspapers (nyt, wsj, wapo) are going with drone attack because it’s the official statement from the Venezuelan government, but they’re not even mentioning the firefighters, from what I’ve seen.
What’s the real story here?
Thanks.
Why does the soldier in the right part of the picture fall, seemingly handlessly? I'm pretty sure gas explosions in a nearby house don't do that.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://youtu.be/_fV-C1Ag5sI
And calls for war with "humour".
I must be old, but it looks similar to me as the "humour" that Germany had before invading Poland.
EDIT:
And no, adding more "excitement" to the video is not going to help
I need to be able to skip around to see if there is something there to pique my interest. Having to wait through the video to even find out what exactly this will be about is just too slow so I closed it.
I don't know the details but is "the right" being conflated with some form of "prepper" here? Eg people who saw these shortages coming started stockpiling resources and people who trusted the government would figure things out, or didnt have the means to stockpile, didnt do so?
Where exactly are these kulaks getting their butter and flour to hoard? Why have the PSUV and Maduro's planned economy not decreed their monopoly over?
In the past I found John Oliver humorous but I've recently noticed his bias and how he conveniently ignores certain facts in order to make a joke.
I would add that the opposition may fear for their lives and may want to avoid appearing in public near Maduro supporters. MSM tries very hard to make Venezuela appear to be like Russia - a sham democracy.
The blame for this situation rests solely on the shoulders of the Venezuelan government. They created a house of cards when they nationalized the PDVSA and coupled their entire country to a single commodity. Like all toxic people they wish to blame someone else for their problems, in this case the United States. For those who believe the United States is to blame for all of their problems how do you reconcile the fact that the US is still their largest trading partner. Have you read any of the sanctions that the US has placed on Venezuela? I'll link you to them, each runs about 2 pages each.[0] How do financial sanctions targeted at 7 government officials in 2015 explain a country collapsing in 2013? Does toilet paper production run on time travel?
[0]: https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/...