Launch HN: The Buttermilk Company (YC S18) – Homemade Indian Food in 5 Minutes

377 points by mitraraman ↗ HN
Hey HN,

I’m Mitra Raman, the founder/CEO of The Buttermilk Company (https:///www.thebuttermilkco.com). We help you make authentic, fresh Indian food in 5 minutes by just adding water to our products.

As an Indian-American in my 20s, I grew up eating my mom’s homemade Indian food everyday. When I moved away from home to attend Carnegie Mellon University, I was homesick for the first time and realized how hard it was to find anything that resembled my mom’s food. I either had to make it myself (finding the Indian grocery store + following my mom’s recipe took way too much time) or would settle for whatever generic dishes at the local Indian restaurant. The options were expensive, time-consuming, or tasted horrible.

Two years into my job as an Software Engineer at Amazon, I asked my mom to help me make her rasam. She gave me all the ingredients in a ziploc bag and told me to just add hot water! I asked my friends about how they coped with homesickness and realized that most parents were also figuring out their own ways of getting their kids’ favorites foods to them when they moved. That’s how the idea for Buttermilk started!

We crowdsource our recipes from real people (keeping our product truly authentic) and develop them into products that are super easy for our customers to make. If you’ve ever asked your mom to send a family recipe to you, you know how hard it is to get this right! Our team spends hours in the kitchen tweaking each recipe so we can prep and cook it just enough that the customer can complete the cooking with water. We have to be careful to not over-prep such that the taste and nutritional value erode over time.

We use fresh and non-GMO ingredients, make everything from scratch (seriously, even the garam masala), and deliver our perishable products in sustainable packaging. Our production is extremely detail-oriented and time-consuming because we are recreating recipes for one family into large-scale batches that need to maintain the quality of its original recipe. To improve efficiency, we have built software to track food production, predict incoming volume, and help our production and fulfillment teams communicate. We’re also exploring new shelf-life extension technologies (such as HPP) so our products can last a lot longer. Currently, they must be refrigerated for 5-7 days or frozen for up to 3 months -- if you don’t eat them before then, that is!

In terms of market size: there are over 4 million Indian immigrants in the U.S. This demographic, like all other ethnic groups, is poorly served by the existing food options when it comes to their cuisines. And of course there is the population of everyone who just likes Indian food and can’t find or make it! Though we are starting with Indian cuisine, we definitely don't plan to stop there. The market for ethnic foods in the U.S. is at least $5B. But in good startup style, we've started with the specific problem we ourselves had.

We’re super eager to hear your feedback, ideas, and experiences in this space or as it relates to our type of product.

453 comments

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I think I’m your perfect “people that just like Indian food” target audience!

The only thing from just skimming the site (haven’t dove deep in just yet) is that it seems it’s only veggie dishes right? Not a deal breaker, but if you had at least easy to follow recipes accompanying these on how to add some meat to them, this might turn into 100% of my meals

Anyways, will be ordering when I get home. Good job launching and good luck!

Thank you! Yes, everything is vegan but I totally understand your need for more meat dishes. Under 'How To Eat' on each product page we've added what meat we suggest mixing with the dish. More detailed recipes to come! Thanks for the feedback.

Example: https://thebuttermilkco.com/collections/singles/products/sam...

Just curious, is the decision to keep everything vegan tied to the 5 minute requirement?
Shipping meat in package seems like a great way for regulators to step in :|

Also it just sounds naaaaaaaaaasty lol

No reason for the above comment to be dead, so I vouched it.

However: Shipping meat in packages is pretty commonplace, you just need to keep it sufficiently chilled. (Maybe only frozen is acceptable?)

Check out Crowd Cow.

No, definitely not! It just so happens that our first dishes ended up being vegan. We have a few recipes in our pipeline that are not strictly vegan but have the same convenience factor as all our current dishes.
Awesome. Will take a closer look at those when I get home.

Thanks!

Conversely, I've just ordered the Buttermilk Suite #2 because you mentioned that they were vegan! (I wouldn't have expected that from your company name...)
Same here; I saw the name and assumed most of the options would be full of paneer that I’d have to avoid (delicious as it is).
Adding meat to many of these dishes is not a big deal. Dry style or liquid style dishes aren't a stretch.
>The options were expensive

5 Spice packets for 24$ isnt what I consider cheap, given I eat for an entire week on ~20$, including a curry chicken dish.

If I misunderstood(like veggies and beans are included), could you mention that in the product page?

That's a great callout! These aren't just spice packets -- they include everything you need for the dish like you mentioned. You can see the full ingredients list for each dish under 'Benefits' of the page. For example, sambar includes carrots, bell peppers, onion, tomatoes, spice and the full seasoning. The only ingredient missing is water!

Sambar: https://thebuttermilkco.com/collections/singles/products/sam...

Just milk and eggs are $20 week for me (5 eggs + 1.5 liter milk / day)
That's a lot of milk (and eggs) each day for one person. Doesn't it get boring? I find myself going off eggs really quickly...
Eggs I eat 3 whites and two full. But yes it gets very boring (the eggs, milk a little less). I have to gain weight for gym though. Soon will get a cook and try to lower eggs/milk.
Stop buying the most expensive things at whole foods then.
Tell me a better/cheaper protein source.
The eggs and milk that aren't the most expensive ones at whole foods? Also, whey powder.
Unfortunately I come from a shitty country, those aren't the expensive ones. I also take whey powder.
There are cheaper alternatives for weight gain or protein if cost is an issue. For instance, tuna, peanut butter, olive oil, protein powder...
Also take protein powder. I hate tuna. Peanut butter is more expensive. Olive oil has no protein.
Do you mind to share what you eat for 20usd/week and, more importantly, in which region you achieve that? I am in Italy, and I believe that budget would suffice for maximum one day. Thank you
I have lived on that before in the US and it’s not that hard. You just need to buy macro-nutritionally dense food at super markets - rice, chicken, beans, cooking oil, butter, oatmeal, noodles, etc.

Of course the problem is that you don’t get a super varied diet which can be problematic both mentally and nutritionally. It can also become a bit harder to incorporate fruits and veggies into your diet when they’re not on sale. And you also need to cook a decent amount

When I was in Rome I found that I could eat on less than $20 a day extremely easily so unless you’re going to restaurants every day I’m not sure how you spent so much

> I’m not sure how you spent so much

There are 7 days in each week.

That's what I actually said: here in Italy I'm spending about 20usd per day.

Thank you for your reply and your insights!

For me it involves shopping at Costco, but you'll be spending $120+ upfront and you will need freezer space.
At least in the US, you can make vegetarian Indian dal for seven days' dinner for about $20, probably less. Lentils are incredibly cheap at the Indian store, and onions, garlic and chiles are also very cheap. Vegetarian Indian food is not expensive to make, it's just somewhat difficult and time consuming. The most expensive thing you'll have to buy is the bread. If you try and get your spices at <Insert popular grocery store>, you will get scammed (small McCormick cumin ~ $5+). You can buy spices in bulk for an order of magnitude less money at the Indian store.
Google Calories Per Dollar, Protein Per Dollar, or Nutrients Per Dollar.

That should show you how to eat for close to that price.

I don't get why you are getting downvoted. For that price, you could easily get a few pounds of the spices needed to cook those foods.
Are there no nutritional facts for these items? I can't seem to find them on the site.
There are! You can find them on the single product pages on the last picture. (Ex upma: https://thebuttermilkco.com/collections/singles/products/upm...)
I would suggest making these either a bit clearer or easier to find. For example, on this page the image with the nutritional information is pretty small.

Pictures can be ok but I would really prefer the info in text/chart form

Noted. Will definitely update the website accordingly. Thank you!!
I have to say I’m impressed at the price at which you’re able to deliver these meals - I would have expected them to cost 25-50% more a la Blue Apron (which I don’t use due to the price). I’ll have to try these!

Have you thought about trying to sell your products, or similar products, to people who camp/hike/etc? I think the fact that the meals are dehydrated and easy to cook would appeal to them

One point of constructive criticism I would offer is that I find the nutritional information hard to find and read in some circumstances.

Thank you! Definitely -- we are a Seattle-based company so we have a huge community of campers and hikers eating our meals! Our products are not actually dehydrated, so they are great for 1-day hiking and camping excursions but not for much longer unless you're able to keep them cool.

That is a great point, and we will definitely update our website to make the nutritional information more readable.

Mentioning on the packaging and/or site, how you make the product dry (after assembling and cooking it), may be of interest to readers (unless you cannot because it is some proprietary technique). I know I would be. Just a thought.
We don't actually dry or dehydrate our products in any way, but can definitely include more information on how we create and package our products.
Any rationale for not using GMO ingredients?
Seems like a reasonable choice. There are people who won't buy their products if they are GMO, but the reverse is not true. (I doubt there's anyone who will only buy GMO products.)
People won't look for GMO products, but if you have two products with similar tastes and nutritional value, but one is more expensive because it has a "GMO Free" sticker on it, I'd bet most people would go for the cheaper option.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted, because you're absolutely right. Almost no one actually cares about "organic" and "non-GMO". Most in the United States are working paycheck to paycheck, but people on HN seem to consistently forget about their existence.
Why use GMO when you dont need to?
How is this any different from MTR's line of products?[1]

And given that MTR's products cost just $2.50 per pack where I currently live, $24 isn't exactly cheap. I haven't tasted your product, but I have tasted the MTR ones and they seem pretty authentic. And MTR being a very old, traditional brand, it's as authentic as it gets. Would love to hear about your differentiation strategy.

[1] https://www.mtrfoods.com/products/ready-to-eat

Haven't tried any food from buttermilk, but if their shelf life is any indication their food is much fresher than MTRs. MTR's packets are good for at least a year (and taste like it - they are passable in a pinch but definitely have that preservative taste to them). I think buttermilk is competing with freshly made or restaurant quality food.

Edit: was wrong about MTR using preservatives, but I've always found their food to have an off taste.

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MTR doesn't use preservatives, the whole food is just sealed air-tight with extra oil covering the food to prevent it from rotting. It's a combination of package engineering and food engineering.
Yes, you're right! We are a fresher and healthier option than frozen meals, with a more authentic and varied selection.
Their competition is not just MTR, but also Deep, Haldiram, etc that sells frozen entrees for ~ $3 at any Indian grocery.
Glad you asked! We have a few key differences:

- MTR provides just the spices, you have to bring everything else. This includes vegetables/meat, seasoning, additional spices, oil/salt, etc. Our products include all of this so that the only ingredient you add is water which makes it much more convenient.

- Our packets are 100% fresh and don't have any preservatives, whereas existing packaged Indian foods are packed with them. This makes our products tastier, fresher and much healthier, although it comes with a shorter shelf-life.

- Our recipes are curated from people in the community (for example, the rasam is my mom's!) This lends a very homemade taste to each dish.

- We deliver to you! All existing pre-packaged authentic Indian foods are only available in Indian stores, so we're making good Indian food available to a much larger audience.

- At the end of the day, the taste just isn't comparable. Microwaveable chana masala from Haldiram's, let's say, comes out looking/smelling/tasting not at all like a homemade dish. Ours is made completely from scratch and you as a customer can feel that difference.

MTR/Haldiram's are 'last-resort' type meals, and we aim to be a meal that you actually crave + is good for you :)

> MTR provides just the spices, you have to bring everything else. This includes vegetables/meat, seasoning, additional spices, oil/salt, etc. Our products include all of this so that the only ingredient you add is water which makes it much more convenient.

Sorry, this is not accurate. If I buy an MTR Sambhar rice, or Paneer masala, everything is included. I just need to heat it and eat it.

> Our packets are 100% fresh and don't have any preservatives, whereas existing packaged Indian foods are packed with them. This makes our products tastier, fresher and much healthier, although it comes with a shorter shelf-life.

I can't vouch for the freshness of MTR's products, but I know they don't use preservatives (as it's printed on their cartons). They use a combination of food engineering and package engineering to preserve the food without using preservatives. That's why when you buy their ready to eat products, you will find a lot of oil in them (which you're supposed to drain away) as it helps to preserve the food for months, if not years. This is no different than storing dead specimens such as rats in biological laboratories, I assume.

> Our recipes are curated from people in the community (for example, the rasam is my mom's!) This lends a very homemade taste to each dish.

Ok, this sounds good.

> We deliver to you! All existing pre-packaged authentic Indian foods are only available in Indian stores, so we're making good Indian food available to a much larger audience.

So, basically a uber type of service? So that almost makes you guys like any other restaurant, no? I mean, what's the difference between calling an Indian restaurant to have fresh food delivered vs calling you guys?

> At the end of the day, the taste just isn't comparable. Microwaveable chana masala from Haldiram's, let's say, comes out looking/smelling/tasting not at all like a homemade dish. Ours is made completely from scratch and you as a customer can feel that difference.

This is subjective. Like I said, if you call up a decent Indian restaurant (HSB / Anjappar / Raj / etc.), you can get a similar experience.

> MTR/Haldiram's are 'last-resort' type meals, and we aim to be a meal that you actually crave + is good for you :)

Sorry, but I am still not convinced why your product is worth $24 and based on what you answer, seems like there isn't much difference between ordering from a decent Indian restaurant and you guys?

I appreciate taking the time to explain your points so far.

Appreciate the responses!

- The microwaveable complete meals are definitely more similar to our products, but those are once again shelf-stable and lack in taste and nutrition. We will be doing a live comparison of our Chana Masala vs. the MTR Chana Masala to show how different it is in amount of product, look, smell, taste and nutrition.

- The oil that they include is definitely a type of preservative, and they use packaging engineering called retort packaging. This is very similar to vacuum sealing where you are drying up the product to remove the nutritional value. I think we could agree that there's a pretty big difference between MTR paneer masala and a homemade paneer masala. I would say that our products are similar if not the same as if you made it from scratch.

- We are e-commerce delivery, not on-demand. The difference between ordering from us vs. an Indian restaurant would be price-point (most dishes start at $7-10).

- Taste is definitely subjective!

- The oil that they include is definitely a type of preservative

You seem really hung up on the preservatives thing and I was giving the benefit of the doubt, but now it is just disingenuous. If oil of all things in a competitors product as a preservative then I think the tremendous amount of salt in your product qualifies as well.

Don't mean to sound hung up on the preservatives, just stating a fact of their processes and what sets us apart. Added preservatives of any kind alter the food and taste at the benefit of having a longer shelf-life.

The sodium content from our products comes from the spices in the recipes themselves. Indian spices especially have a large amount of salt (which makes them so flavorful and spicy!), but we do not add any additional salt for preservation. We are also currently working on low-sodium options!

> The sodium content from our products comes from the spices in the recipes themselves

This is nonsense - chillies, ginger and spices (e.g. black pepper, cloves, cinnamon, cassia, mace, cumin, coriander) barely contain any sodium. In the quantities such ingredients will be present in each meal, the sodium content is completely negligible.

> Indian spices especially have a large amount of salt (which makes them so flavorful and spicy!)

OK, this is just flat out lies - the only 'spice' that contains a large amount of salt is... salt! I now have zero faith that you have any idea about the very product you are marketing.

I’m not sure that’s fair. I think it makes sense to distinguish between oil (or salt or any ingredient) added for the purpose of flavor, nutrition, or authenticity vs the purpose of preservation. Both affect the flavor but one makes the food better and the other only ensures it lasts longer (assuming success).
That presumes flavor and longevity are mutually exclusive.
Since when does vacuum sealing "[dry] up the product to remove the nutritional value?" I don't believe it does either.

Also from Wikipedia retort packaging seems much more similar to canning than vacuum sealing.

>They use a combination of food engineering and package engineering to preserve the food without using preservatives.

I don't know specifically about Haldiram's or MTR (I might have tried out MTR Indian food ready-to-eat packs), but some others that I used to buy and eat sometimes (I forget the name, it may have been from an ITC group company - the Indian food and tobacco giant), mention on the package that they use DRDO-licensed technology. DRDO is an Indian defence-oriented R&D organization of the Indian government. The technology was originally developed for soldiers on the field. So likely made in such a way as to last long, and could account for its not tasting that good, and not as good as the same item, but freshly made (obviously).

> seems like there isn't much difference between ordering from a decent Indian restaurant and you guys

I know it seems absurd on HN, but there are people who live in areas without decent Indian restaurants.

Coming from small-town Missouri and having traveled very little even within the US, I had literally never heard of any specific Indian dish (authentic or not) until I moved to San Francisco. I had no idea what naan or chicken tikka masala were until my company in SF ordered some.
So before you moved to SF, you never ate any of these products. Most people don't start eating new cuisines from a product like this, they start at restaurants (under the assumption that these cooks have experience cooking the food and will likely make a good product) or after having a meal prepared for them by another person.

That's not to say you wouldn't see this product at a store and go "oh, I've heard of Indian food and always been interested!" but that's not the common buyer behavior. People tend to pick convenience foods based on established food preferences/familiarizes.

You should probably know that chicken tikka masala is British, not Indian then. :)
Yes, I did learn that. I threw in “authentic or not” to avoid attempting to define what is “actually” Indian food.
> You should probably know that chicken tikka masala is British, not Indian then.

You have to be careful posting such comments, you might start a war :)

Right. A war over something as meaningless as this.
There have been more fiercely fought wars over more trivial things.

This is HN, bike shedding is a thing.

Sure... and Vindaloo is derived from a Portugeuse dish. Which is not to say they aren't associated with India today.
The difference being the government minister Robin Cook to claimed that chicken tikka masala was "a true British national dish."
That's fine, but then the question becomes "How many people who want fancy 'high quality' Indian food also live far from decent Indian food". At this price point, your demographic seems to be people who have a decent amount of disposable income who also want QUALITY Indian food who also don't want to have to prepare it themselves and who don't live near Indian restaurants of comparable quality to the product. How much of that 5 Billion dollar pie have you carved away from your product when it's framed like that?

I have to agree with OP. I wish you well, but if I want to pay this much money for Indian food I'll likely go to an Indian Restaurant near me. I'm supporting a local business and being provided with a restaurant experience.

(of note: I worked in restaurants for over a decade, so my food spending tends to fall into "dining experience at a great restaurant" or "ingredients to prepare my own food because it's cheaper than convenience foods". I was going to be a hard sell from the start).

The play here would almost certainly need to be around supply chain and/or some advance in the quality/ease/lifespan of fast prepared meals.
That's a fair point, but also not the only demographic. When the options are either eat at an Indian restaurant or make it yourself, you come up against issues of overspending on time or money. There's a large population of people who enjoy Indian food, live near restaurants, could even make it themselves if they want to, but would rather get a quick, tasty meal that tastes homemade for the same amount of money and effort as a microwave meal.

Appreciate the support :)

There's also the group of first generation Indians who have kids, would like to feed their kids Indian food, but don't have an hour each day after work to prepare a fresh meal. Combining these packets with homemade daal and rice would make an easy weekday meal for a small family (although in NYC you can find housewives who'll come to your house once a week and prepare a week's worth of fresh food for cheaper than these packets).
>This makes our products tastier, fresher and much healthier

Any evidence that your food is healthier? Or even any explanation as to why it would be.

>Our recipes are curated from people in the community

What community? Every recipie comes from someone in a community.

>All existing pre-packaged authentic Indian foods are only available in Indian stores

Not where I live. Walmart even sells pre-packaged desi style food.

>Ours is made completely from scratch

What does that even mean in the context of selling a pre-made food product.

Maybe i'm just picky but MTR or even (Gits) is horrible. Deep is the only one that is somewhat decent.
Not sure how OP's product is different, but MTR's food is not good at all. Even assuming that a $2.50 pack is enough for you (I find that I need two at most times for my regular hunger), it's not good to eat at all. I usually reserve it for national park trips only (the convenience of popping the pack into boiling water or into the microwave for 2 mins is unbeatable).

As far as authenticity goes, most of their stuff isn't. I would actually put them in the "very very bad attempt" category. But it could just represent the food of local area where they started (and that's not really acceptable, given that they make a wide range of stuff).

Totally agree. I consider the MTR Palak Paneer in the category of "Indian Chef Boyardee". I don't know how successful she'll be but OP clearly appears to be highlighting taste and freshness.
"national park trips only "

I do that too! MTR and the Trader Joe's Indian dishes are my camping food. Definitely no comparison to fresh food.

MTR is definitely decent, but it’s a far cry from authentic, quality Indian food. I’ve had many MTR lunches at work, but I don’t see myself eating it for dinner where convenience is not my primary concern.

It seems like Buttermilk is definitely competing for quality, not price.

MTR definitely has a different taste than what you get when you use fresh spices. No idea how the OP's products taste.
The difference is that the MTR stuff actually tastes horrible and nothing like actual, regular, everyday Indian food.
It wasn't clear from the home page that $24 is for "one meal that serves 3-4 people".

If it doesn't greatly increase the price of packaging for your product, you may want to experiment with showing pictures of (and sending) food in single-serving packages (so instead of sending five-six packets, you'd send 15-24 of them).

Another option is to go with a "Home Chef" style pitch -- basically saying "here's a dinner date night for two in a box".

That's a good point! Our products are created as a single serving per packet, so when you purchase our pre-made packs we specify how many meals you can make out of that pack to help users out.
MTR is shit. I haven't tried buttermilk but if they are as good as they claim then I am definitely going to be one of their target customers.
> We’re also exploring new shelf-life extension technologies (such as HPP)

What is HPP?

HPP = High Pressure Processing or Pasturization. It's essentially doing the same thing to the product as dehydration would, but maintaining the freshness and quality of the food. While dehydration makes a product shelf-stable for an extended period of time, HPP food still requires refrigeration but can stay fresh for up to 90 days (sometimes more)!
How is this different from products like Kitchens of India or Tasty Bites? Are you looking to compete with them on price or quality?
I'm guessing quality. I just ordered and the order confirmation said

> Remember that your packets are perishable, so refrigerate or freeze them as soon as they arrive!

That's definitely not true of Tasty Bites. :-)

Yes, that is true. Our products are completely fresh and don't include preservatives so you get the same convenience as Tasty Bite, but the quality and freshness of a meal kit or making it from scratch. We'd argue that the taste is better, too ;)
Can you share more about the "sustainable packaging"?
Yes! - Our packets are made from 4"x6" aluminum, FDA-approved packaging. - We ship in thermal bubble mailers (also aluminum) inside of recyclable boxes with compostable liners. - We include ice packs in each order that are reusable. You can also send those back to us if you don't want to keep them!
This looks great. I'm curious if your packaging is BPA free.
Nutrition Label upfront, in words and text. I know there is a picture but I missed it, some of the nutrition labels are like the 4th picture.

Some of the starter packs don’t have nutrition label on it either.

Great feedback. We will update our website accordingly!
I think you should consider your addressable market to be greater than Indian expats - I'm a Brit and I miss my curry living here as much as anyone from India!

Two quick thoughts:

1) I don't get your branding, especially the company name, and especially as all of your meals are vegan.

2) Shipping meat-based meals is presumably a very different and more expensive logistical challenge so I get the reason why there's no meat in these but it seems as though these packets could easily be combined with pan-cooked chicken to make a more substantial meal - is that the case and is that something you've considered promoting as part of the marketing?

I wish you the very best of luck!

> 1) I don't get your branding, especially the company name, and especially as all of your meals are vegan.

As I mentioned downthread, I was planning to skip this completely because of the name until one of the founders happened to mention in a comment that the meals are vegan. I don't normally associate "buttermilk" with anything that I eat as a vegan.

This might be a tricky marketing issue, because a huge amount of traditional home-cooked Indian food is lacto-vegetarian but not vegan. So there might be not an enormous customer segment that would view the lack of dairy in these meals as an advantage (although I'm in that customer segment myself).

That's a great point about the branding. Why we're called Buttermilk: Buttermilk is eaten at the end of almost every South Indian meal to "cool down" the stomach. As a South Indian myself, this is one of my go-to comfort foods. The aim with the company is to provide authentic, comfort foods which is how we came about to using it for the name! Plus, it's a known and easy-to-say word.

We didn't actually launch with the aim of only providing vegan meals, it just so happened that our first dishes are all vegan! This has definitely caused some confusion so we'll continue to iterate on our branding/messaging.

I may as well chime in here to provide another data point. I'm also vegan and I was definitely turned off by the name. I wouldn't have read further if it wasn't clearly a service for Indian food, which I am particularly interested in. I'm glad that your first line of meals is vegan, and as another South Indian I can sympathize with the reasoning behind the name, but I'm sure many others would be confused by the name as well.
Another vegan chiming in to say I assumed these weren’t suitable for me based on the name because buttermilk is an ingredient I see and think, “damn :(“. Veganism is very much about identifying red flags that make something unsuitable, so any reference to a non-vegan product is going to immediately turn off a non-zero portion of vegans because they won’t search out the ingredients to discover it is vegan.

A key part of a manageable vegan life is building a database of what you can consume that you enjoy and using that to drive choices, so if you can get vegan customers buying your food and enjoying it then they’re going to be stickier customers. I am a very loyal customer to my favourite food brands out of necessity, as are my vegan friends.

That said there’s certainly a double edged sword here in that there are some non-vegans who see “vegan” and are turned off but given Indian food is so often vegan I don’t think this would be a concern in your market. Although the name is cute, it’s definitely misrepresenting your product to a growing portion of your potential customers. If you stick with the name, regardless of marketing, you’re going to lose vegans, because many won’t look beyond the name because that’s a necessity for getting by.

There’s a few companies in the U.K. doing intentionally vegan ready meals (e.g https://allplants.com) and there’s a growing market for vegan ready meals (we are as busy/lazy as everybody else), so I think it’s worthwhile to reconsider the name, but also it’s a great name so maybe you can be the company to get vegans to look beyond red flags. Your product seems absolutely great for my needs and would, assuming they’re enjoyable to eat, integrate into my life well. Good luck!

> Veganism is very much about identifying red flags that make something unsuitable,

Yeah, I've become very quick at glancing at an ingredient list and noticing "whey" or "gelatin" and then putting the product back. So indeed, the brand name itself would trigger a similar reaction for me if the founder hadn't happened to specifically mention that it was vegan.

> That said there’s certainly a double edged sword here in that there are some non-vegans who see “vegan” and are turned off but given Indian food is so often vegan I don’t think this would be a concern in your market.

There might be some knowledgeable customers who expect a particular dish to contain ghee and feel like it's not likely to be that great without the ghee.

Hi Mitra,

Great initiative. But even I don't understand the use of this name as Branding. As ideally "Buttermilk" is a Drink consumed throughout India, and ironically your company is not selling it. :-).

Also its a name of the Drink and you are selling ready to eat food items which also make this name a little inappropriate, as for any Indian it gives the impression of Drink selling site rather than Food selling site. (Even i was not planning to look at it, if I have not read the comments).

Anyways all the best and have a great success.

Thank you for your feedback! Note about why we're called Buttermilk below.

Re: meat-based options, we have added suggestions for meat to mix in with each dish under 'How to eat'! We plan on adding more in-depth recipes in the near future.

I saw Mitra's reply downthread, but adding my 2c as an Indian:

Buttermilk is commonly drunk with meals in India (both North and South, although lassi is very popular in the North too), and also separately as a refresher, more so in summer, often lightly spiced with cumin, hing (asafoetida), etc. and sometimes with a few green chillies in it (for the brave - heh:), and is considered a soothing drink, and also healthy and wholesome. In fact I remember a childhood friend of mine saying that (as we both drank a glass each of buttermilk at lunch at his house), and it stuck in my memory. And it is really that - soothing.

Is the buttermilk made from the leftovers of churning butter or is it milk that they grow cultures in?
Interesting question. Answer: The former. However, there is another product loosely called buttermilk by some, here. It is just curd (Indian term for yoghurt) diluted with water and maybe stirred or whisked a bit to mix up the water well with the curd. If you can't get the former, you can easily make this with curd you have at home. The real buttermilk is usually salted slightly. The one made from curd can be had either salty or sweet by adding sugar.
It would be fun to taste. The buttermilk I have tried in USA is bitter and tastes acidic.
Interesting. Could be because it is somewhat stale, maybe. (Was it bought from stores, what you tried?) Same happens in India. Fresh home-made buttermilk tastes good, from just after being made up to say 24 hours or so. After that it does get more acidic, particularly in warmer weather or if not kept in the fridge, although I might call it sour instead. Not found it tasting bitter though, as I remember. Could be you had bad luck and it was quite old stock.
A quick cooking hack when you're out of buttermilk at home is to add a tablespoon of vinegar or lemon juice to a cup of milk. So I always assumed the sourness/acidity was the defining feature of buttermilk. It would be interesting if there were types of buttermilk (and recipes requiring them) where this was not the case.
Interesting, must try that out sometime. In India paneer (a sort of Indian cottage cheese) is made that way, by putting lemon juice in hot milk, which makes it curdle. Then the curds are put into a cloth and hung up for a few hours to drain off the whey. What's left is paneer, which can be eaten raw, or used in dishes like palak paneer (spinach with paneer), mutter paneer (green peas with paneer), some Indian sweets, etc.
I wasn’t aware hing and lightly spiced could be used in the same sentence.
Ha ha, good point :) Yes, hing is a very strong spice. But it can be a light spice, if you use little enough. Normally just a tiny pinch of it is used. Also, in India, the packaged variety you get from shops is usually mixed with some filler material which makes it less strong. Not sure what, need to check. In a similar manner, for example, some mustard powder out here is mixed with some whole wheat flour (atta) and turmeric, for the same reason. E.g. Weifield's Mustard Powder, a common brand.
Yes my impression is it’s atta
Most commonly. I'm in North America and that's also true for the hing here. Though I have found other fillers, which is good for people who need to avoid gluten (atta has gluten).
>I think you should consider your addressable market to be greater than Indian expats - I'm a Brit

I don't know. I'm not Indian either, and I was drawn to it in part because it wasn't advertised to westerners.

The hipster foodie market is best catered to by not catering to them.
Mitraraman,

The website has a really clean look - it makes the product seem delicious and authentic. The minimalist design compliments the minimalism of the product.

I would be careful with identifying your target market. I live in Chicago, which I believe has one of the highest percentages of Indian immigrant populations in the nation. This might seem like your target market - but in fact the large percentage of immigrants has led to a slew of Indian markets and restaurants, that are likely equally delicious and cheap. It is a common theme among my coworkers to bring in homecooked Indian meals on a daily basis.

I also noticed the Upma pack is listed as gluten-free, but contains semolina. That's just asking for legal trouble from those with Celiac's. It might be worth consolidating all of the different packages and their ingredients lists on a separate page, QAing them, and making them more available to the reader in an organized, possibly drop-down format. Hope this feedback is useful.

Cheers

Thank you, really happy you like our website and product! There's a few key differences between our products and the existing Indian-based products which I've called out in a different response.

That's a good point about the target market. There's definitely a sizable portion of immigrants who continue to cook from scratch. There's also an emerging part of the market who are first/second-generation and don't cook at home as often -- either because they don't know how, don't have all the ingredients on hand, or don't have the time/patience. We are aiming to serve this population, and also be a nice-to-have for the former group of people!

That is a great call out on the Upma and a mistake on our end (that we accidentally added last night!). We will fix this immediately. I also really like your feedback about putting all the ingredients and nutritional information on a single page. Thank you!

Mitra Raman, If you would please consider Celiacs... it's so hard to find suitable/delicious food. South Indian food can be quite friendly to Celiacs. That said, my wife is so sensitive we almost never eat out due to cross-contamination, we even avoid products that are "made in a facility that handles wheat". So, it's not just ingredients but the chances of cross-contamination that matter to us.

Speaking of which, I'd love to know of Indian restaurants in Chicago, ideally closer to south side, that are truly friendly to Celiacs. Thanks.

Well this might not answer your question in regards to the celiac aspect. I will say that the Indian place in the food court of 550 w Madison is worth checking out. It's adjacent to Ogilve. It's better than any other place I've tried by a long shot.
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>It might be worth consolidating all of the different packages and their ingredients lists on a separate page

Agreed. And also may be worth putting all the nutritional information (I mean what ingredients are used, and all - not some - of them, and in what percentages or weights - again, for all), on the food packages themselves. Saying this because a pet peeve of mine about Indian products here is that many of them put such info for some, but not all of the ingredients. Common example: Haldiram snacks: they often mention many ingredients, but the labeling can go like this: Peanuts (8%), gram flour (12%), rice flour (no number given), and so on. I mean what the heck is the use of putting that info, then? if a person wants to know that info, they want to know it for all ingredients, not just some, for their health or whatever other reasons.

Why is the sodium level so high? The dal pack has 1220 milligrams of sodium per serving? It seems rather unethical for you to be marketing high sodium products to a group of people that should not be eating a daily amount of sodium in one sitting.
Is everything offered that salty? My biggest issue with the packets of Indian food at Trader Joe's is how much sodium they have, otherwise I would eat 2-3 of those every day. I have to keep track of my sodium intake or my face bloats.
We don't alter our recipes at all, so the sodium amount is unfortunately what's in our products to begin with. We are actively working on a low-sodium option to be released in the Fall!
UK, Birmingham: most local street food places use a lot of salt, as do my neighbours, and most of the 'convenience' prepared masalas mentioned up screen.

Oddly enough, the salt levels seem a tad lower in the family restaurants (big evening meals).

Actually, that's pretty low for an Indian dish. Many of the dishes (especially south Indian) have way above this amount o sodium. It probably makes sense to take that much sodium when living in South India as many places are hot and you will end up sweating the sodium out anyway.
How recyclable is your packaging and how much packaging do you use per unit of food?

Large amounts of plastic waste is a big reason I will never ever use blue apron and similar companies.

Our packaging is 100% recyclable and compostable! We take eco-friendly packaging very seriously. We use a single 4"x6" aluminum packet for each product, and ship all orders in thermal bubble mailers with compostable liners in recyclable boxes. Orders come with 2-4 gel packs that are all reusable and can be sent back to us if you don't need them.
For what it's worth, you're going to have to optimize away gel-packs somehow if you do want it to be handled in an eco-friendly way. The vast majority of people are going to throw those in the garbage. Sending them back to you is a huge hassle, and upcycling them won't scale for repeat customers.
Totally understand. I'm working on figuring out a better solution to gel packs for this exact reason.
As a non-Indian who loves Indian cuisine, I’m intrigued to see some dishes I don’t recognize from the usual options at restaurants and in packaged goods. Are some of these regional specialties?
Yes a few are South Indian specialties (rasam, uppuma). Most indian restaurants in the US serve dishes from the north east of India that originated during the Mughal rule.
Yes! Most of our starting dishes are South Indian and we are expanding into other regions soon! Our goal is to make authentic dishes more accessible so happy to do so :)
I personally, as a North Indian, appreciate that these are authentic South Indian dishes because these are the most difficult to find in my Nebraska home, but also simultaneously, are my fav things to eat for breakfast.
This seems like you are working off of TastyBite's playbook:

http://tastybite.com/products/

> The options were expensive, time-consuming, or tasted horrible.

Tasty bite tastes decent, takes 60-90 seconds to heat up, and costs about $3/package with no need for refrigeration.

---

This seems like a YC to clone TastyBite without any differentiation beyond the nebulous "quality food".

So....

Are you telling me your quality is so much better a household staple of my life is going to be replaced for twice the price?

----

https://www.amazon.com/Tasty-Bite-Chickpeas-Tomatoes-Microwa...

$15 for 6 packages / 60 oz.

https://thebuttermilkco.com/collections/singles/products/cha...

$13.50 for 3 packages / 30 oz(?)

It looks to me like the biggest difference is that these are not sealed, they're perishable. Tasty bite can be kept at room temperature for 9+ months.

Costco in the Seattle area also now sells some tasty bite bulk packs.

> It looks to me like the biggest difference is that these are not sealed, they're perishable. Tasty bite can be kept at room temperature for 9+ months.

Yeah, which isn't really a positive unless it saves on sodium/etc. If it does, its really a niche "healthy" version of TastyBite and they need to market it as such.

It doesn't seem to have any less sodium.
tasty bites are super cheap at costco, 12 pack for like $16
I think they're even cheaper this month. Picked up a box the other day.
TastyBite is definitely a similar product/company. The key differentiators are:

- Our products are fresh and don't have any preservatives, meaning they must be refrigerated or frozen whereas TastyBite is shelf-stable for 9+ months. Our food is inherently fresher and tastes more homemade because of this.

- Our recipes are crowdsourced instead of developed in our kitchen. This ensures that the food is actually authentic with a homemade taste and we are able to expand into a much larger variety of products much quicker. For instance, we have a few recipes in our pipeline that you would be hard-pressed to find in TastyBite or even regular Indian restaurants because they are authentic to smaller regions of India.

- I can't say that you'll definitely like our product's taste better than TastyBite, but I do believe so :)

So you are going to market as an upscale version of TastyBite with no preservatives that sells niche Indian food?

I wish you the best of luck with that.

Personally, I find a package of Vindaloo from TastyBite, some riced veggies, and a shredded chicken breast lasts me about 2 meals and is comparable to the price you are charging. I really only use TastyBite as a backpacking/on-the-go meal or as a quick curry out of laziness. I'm probably not your target market but shelf stability has alot going for it.

Your use case for TastyBit makes total sense. We're hoping to be a go-to option for a normal meal at home when you don't want to spend the time/money/energy on making a meal from scratch.

We are starting with Indian food but will hopefully be expanding to different cuisines, too!

Maybe you could offer low(er) sodium versions. I find 20% daily sodium intake is too much for a dish.
Do you eat more than 5 dishes per day? How are you going to get your daily sodium dose?
Since most people are overshooting by huge margins, that'd be among the least of my worries.
The evidence suggests most people are not overshooting their salt needs and especially not by huge margins.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/we-only-th...

>With nearly everyone focused on the supposed benefits of salt restriction, little research was done to look at the potential dangers. But four years ago, Italian researchers began publishing the results from a series of clinical trials, all of which reported that, among patients with heart failure, reducing salt consumption increased the risk of death... Those trials have been followed by a slew of studies suggesting that reducing sodium to anything like what government policy refers to as a “safe upper limit” is likely to do more harm than good. These covered some 100,000 people in more than 30 countries and showed that salt consumption is remarkably stable among populations over time. In the United States, for instance, it has remained constant for the last 50 years, despite 40 years of the eat-less-salt message. The average salt intake in these populations — what could be called the normal salt intake — was one and a half teaspoons a day, almost 50 percent above what federal agencies consider a safe upper limit for healthy Americans under 50, and more than double what the policy advises for those who aren’t so young or healthy. This consistency, between populations and over time, suggests that how much salt we eat is determined by physiological demands, not diet choices....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/we-ea...

>People tend to consume about the same amount of sodium no matter where they live, and this amount hasn’t changed much in decades. Those facts hint at the biological basis of our sodium appetite.... “Over the last five decades, salt content of commercial food in our food [in the United States] has gone up. But if you look at people’s 24-hour urinary sodium excretion, you see that the amounts of salt people consume have been constant,” he says. Irrespective of age, sex or race, between 1957 and 2003 Americans have been eating on average 3.5 grams of salt a day. “This suggests that we are somehow regulating the amount of salt we are eating,” Breslin says.... In one of Leshem’s studies, babies who had low concentrations of sodium in their blood in the first weeks of their lives grew up to be teenagers with a penchant for salt, even salt that is seemingly hidden in processed foods. “Even if you can’t taste the salt, apparently your body does. It’s working on an unconscious level to condition a preference for sodium,” Leshem explains.

That is perfectly normal for a meal with that many calories
> don't have any preservatives

Just what I was looking for. Definitely going to use this service.

From the amazon link to TastyBite's packaging, it looks like they also don't use preservatives (It's explicitly mentioned in the packaging that no preservatives are used). Good luck with your startup, but their shelf life of 9+ months doesn't seem to be due to use of preservatives, it could be due to the packaging process.

On a relative note, there are tons of such products in India and most of them taste sub par to home cooked food. One exception I found was Butter Chicken I used to buy regularly when I was spent some time in Newyork few years ago. You just have to freeze it until you open and then, heat it in microwave and ready to go. It tasted very good, but spoiled my stomach (I am bearing the burden even till today) due to the usage of preservatives. Anything that doesn't use preservative is a welcome addition.

One more, when you mentioned sustainable packaging, what does it mean? Is it paper or bio plastic? If so another +1.

https://www.amazon.com/Tasty-Bite-Chickpeas-Tomatoes-Microwa...

>"Our products are fresh and don't have any preservatives,"

But Salt is probably the most common food preservative there is and the reason canned foods have such high levels of it.

Why is the salt content on many of these items through the roof for ready-made meals meant to be eaten soon after delivery.

Except Tasty Bite tastes terrible. There's another competitor making the same thing (sealed cooked food, no water needed) Maya Kaimal that is _much_ better. It actually tastes good.
Personally, I enjoy Tasty Bite curries. It may not be the perfect authentic Indian dish you get at a good restaurant but I find at its price point there isn't any real competitor for my $$.
It's definitely a subjective thing! It's hard to find authentic Indian food that tastes good, is easy to make, and affordable. That's where we come in :)
Most Indian restaurants in the US aren't authentic, and cater to Western tastes. So
Dude, if this works, you're sitting on a goldmine!

I love Indian food, but I live in the middle of nowhere (more specifically in a rural area 10 miles from the nearest town). The closest Indian restaurant is at least 45 minutes away and the closest good one is probably over an hour away.

I'd buy this in a heartbeat.

Thank you!! Everyone needs good Indian food :) Hope you try it out!
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Right up my alley. Thanks for using Amazon/Paypal/Google checkout integration properly, and not just to pre-fill some info while making me create Yet Another Shopping Account.

One bug: the Amazon cart discarded my old items after I added new ones.

Steps to reproduce: 1. Add a sampler to the cart 2. Try to check out using Amazon 3. Discover that shipping is $6, or free shipping at $35+ 4. Go back and add a few more items 5. Try to check out with Amazon again

Expected result: The items all show up, now at the $35 level

Actual result: Only the newly added items were show

Thank you, happy to make the shopping experience easier for you!

Very sorry to hear about that issue and thank you for the debugging instructions. We will look into it immediately!

I love the family story on the site, and the design is beautiful. I agree with others that suggest the nutrition info should be a little easier to find.

We just subscribed to the Buttermilk Suite. Looking forward to trying it.

Thank you! Looking forward to your feedback + will definitely update the nutrition info soon!
You did a great job of making the "love from mom" feeling come through on the website. I think that's what made us decide to subscribe.
I checked just a few items and saw 910mg, 1220mg, 1430mg, and 1760mg of sodium per serving!

That's an incredibly high amount of sodium. It would probably be unhealthy for most people to eat one per day, let alone 2-3. Maybe you can do something about lowering the sodium levels, but until then I don't think "healthy" is a fair word to use.

Yes definitely. We are actively working on creating low-sodium options of these dishes. Unfortunately, the sodium comes from the traditional Indian spices used in each dish so it's an intricate process to adjust the levels and keep the same quality and taste.
> Unfortunately, the sodium comes from the traditional Indian spices used in each dish

Wat? What spices contain a high level of sodium? Or are you counting 'salt' as a 'traditional Indian spice'?!

Let me preface that I like the concept and it definitely makes it easier to introduce some folks to actually cooking this food at some point down the line.

That said, I don't understand how you have this much salt in these packs. I'm south indian and cook on a regular basis; specifically I cook these foods quite often and the spices involved generally don't have salt mixed in (unless the spice mix wasn't ground by you originally and so I can see how the salt would be mixed in, but still)

>"The sodium comes from the traditional Indian spices used in each dish so it's an intricate process to adjust the levels and keep the same quality and taste."

The majority of Indian spices are mostly single element spices - cumin, coriander, fennel, fenugreek, garlic etc.

Even Garam Masala probably the most widely used multi-spice doesn't contain any salt.

Could you elaborate on which "traditional" Indian spices have salt in them?

Sorry for the confusion! I meant to specify that the traditional spices like you mentioned contain sodium, not salt. We include red and green chillies, homemade garam masala, ginger, etc. all of which add up to increased amounts of sodium in the product. We are working on lowering sodium in each product while maintaining the taste and flavor.
Sorry, but this really doesn't add up. Chillies, ginger and spices (e.g. black pepper, cloves, cinnamon, cassia, mace, cumin, coriander) barely contain any sodium. In the quantities such ingredients will be present in each meal, the sodium content is completely negligible.

As an example, you'd need around 5 kilos each of both ginger and chillies to come close to the sodium content of one of these meals!

Personally, I don't have a problem with them having a high sodium content - but I do have a problem with nonsensical claims by the maker.

> the sodium comes from the traditional Indian spices used in each dish so it's an intricate process to adjust the levels and keep the same quality and taste.

This is untrue, bastardized Indian dishes tend to overcompensate for not only sodium but also oil. I'm guessing the extra sodium and sugar in your dishes are added to appeal to Americans and keep a longer shelf life...

Not sure why you're downvoted, but the amount of sodium is definitely high and is a serious concern.
it's mostly associated with high blood pressure and recent findings show that it may not be correct: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170425124909.h...

> A new study that followed more than 2,600 men and women for 16 years found that consuming less sodium wasn't associated with lower blood pressure.

Too much sodium can make your face puffy. It does for me.
I haven’t tried the food, but it seems like you are making real, high quality food. I think the “ship fresh” angle is interesting and worth experimenting with. I wish you the best and will follow the journey on Instagram!

Others in this thread seem dubious that quality could be a differentiator, but I think you should double down on that. It’s not just ingredients, but technique that makes food delicious and if you can truly scale proper par-cooking technique, that will be a strong core for your business, and difficult to copy from the outside.

I also think you are absolutely correct to focus on a core market who loves real Indian food. There’s no price you can put on your family’s home cooking, which makes it a good market for you to start in low volume.

Just a random idea as you grow: you might try supporting an “experiment community” the way Soylent did. I think that forum became https://www.completefoods.co. They encouraged people to share and develop their own recipes.

In the long term, you will need to compete against “monoculture” brands who are selling one size fits all products. Because you aren’t storing inventory, you will be positioned to sell a wider selection of products, even short runs of one-off special foods. Could be another differentiator.

Thank you! We agree that quality is a lot more than in the ingredients and makes a huge difference.

That's a great suggestion about the community. We are experimenting with community building through our recipe curators, who send in their recipes to be turned into Buttermilk products. They receive 5% of the proceeds of their product sales, too. There are tons of great opportunities for this!

I just want to point out a small issue on your site. On the page https://thebuttermilkco.com/collections/all/products/the-i-c... the link to the khichdi leads to the page for upma.

As somebody with dairy allergies, I was going to avoid this, given the name, but since I saw you mentioned that the meals were all vegan (so far) I am tempted to give it a go.

Thank you so much for pointing that out! We will fix it ASAP.
Hey!

I'm am an expat who lives in the UK. I'm from India as well. $24 for 3-4 vegetarian meals seems really expensive, will you adjust pricing as you scale?

How do you plan on preserving taste and the "home cooked feeling" as you scale? This might be an absurd question at this stage, but a friend and I who wanted to get in this space couldn't come up with a good answer.

Personally, I just cook a lot of food whenever I cook so that I am able to do a couple of meals. I've recently considered having a soylent for dinner and I just ordered my first pack of Huel. I can cook whenever I want to eat really authentic food.

Here in the UK a lot of house wives provide a tiffin service. Is there something similar in the US?

Great website. Nice story. I wish you luck :)

Hey! Thanks for the message. Our products are all priced at $4.50-6, which is quite reasonable for a full meal that includes vegetables, protein, spices, etc.

We're working on a few things that will help us automate a lot of the repeated processes but still ensure the same homemade recipes are being followed correctly. It's definitely a hard problem but one we're working hard to solve!

I believe there are similar services in some larger cities, but those usually have higher prices ($10-14 per meal) and aren't able to scale with the demand as necessary.

We hope to be the go-to for authentic food when the existing options don't cut it and you don't have the time or energy to make it yourself!

I saw one of the meal packs that was around 23.50 and said 3-4 meals, so I calculated it to be around $8/meal.

I agree that cooking can get quite exhausting, procuring ingredients, cooking and then cleaning up is a long process.

You are solving a real problem. Good luck!

What is this 'tiffin service'? I'm from the UK and have never heard of it.
A "Tiffin" in India is a meal in a box. There is this website https://tiffinplanet.co.uk/ that provides a tiffin service. That is serves Indian food to you for lunch/dinner. You can find similar services on Gumtree. I briefly subscribed to a Tiffin service that would advertise the food a day before and you could decide whether you were interested or not.