I find it massively depends on the commute. Previously, I often had to travel to visit my SO which was an hour away by train. As I almost always had a seat I could watch Coursera videos on my phone.
However, I have a 20-30 minute bus ride to work everyday in which there are never free seats and you are often lucky if you even have room to reach into your pocket let alone watch videos on your phone.
It's hard to see any benefit to the latter commute as being rammed in like cattle doesn't aid self-reflection either.
Agreed, even when I only have 25 mins of combined bus and subway commute, it's kinda wasted time for anything that's not "reading RSS feeds on my phone" or "read a small (by dimensions) paperback" as it's packed.
Then again I still prefer this over 45mins of "sitting down", because I can somehow do something in that time even if worse case it's just listening to music and let my mind wander, whereas I see most of it wasted anyway
Yeah I've done public transport, car and cycle. I far prefer the latter, which doesn't make me fat and stressed the way driving a car or squeezing into an overfilled train does. (Well except for those moments when someone is trying to kill us, but you get used to those I guess...)
Years ago I worked within walking distance to the office. It took only 10 minutes to walk there. I hated it. You spend all day and night in the same neighbourhood. At lunch I went to the same places I would go to at the weekends. Life just felt
so repetitive, seeing the same things every day.
Today I drive 15-20 minutes to the other end of the town, with just moderate traffic, and for me that's perfect. Less stressful than public transportation, and more variety than in the old office.
Please stop making such ignorant comments. You may not realize it but a lot of folks have families and are on a schedule dropping off and picking up their kids - where driving cars/ride sharing is often the most practical way of commuting. Just because you have been able to find a place near to your office or have been able to plan your commute near train stations/shuttle stops doesn't mean everyone else can. Many times you have to optimize for other things such as schools, bigger house with a yard etc. and not all those will have great commuting options.
> a schedule dropping off and picking up their kids - where driving cars/ride sharing is often the most practical way of commuting
This is mostly done on bike in The Netherlands. A normal bike supports 2 kids. There's also bikes to transport 4-5 kids. I regularly see those bigger bikes btw. It does take that your country plans things accordingly. Back in the 1960s there wasn't much of a bike infrastructure, though there were loads of cars and car accidents.
Yeah - am not talking about Netherlands here. I would encourage to come to US and understand just how widespread things are. You often are working in an office which is 15 miles away from your house. No way you are biking on that regardless of how good your biking infra is.
Why not? I have had plenty of colleagues over the years who did upwards of 30km bicycle commutes, each way. If your job offers showers and lockers, it's no problem at all, once you've built up the bike stamina after a couple of weeks.
Relax, dude. Parent comment didn't have anything to justify that sort of response. Besides this almost reads as a parody, bringing up goofy stuff like "I want a bigger house" and "my kids will never ride the bus to school"...
You may think it of as a parody but that was not my intention. Also, provide useful inputs that contribute to the discussion vs. just your observation of the nature of the comments. You obviously are not able to relate to the challenges which real families face.
See, I like that sort of distance. 10 minute walk? Yes please. I'll walk up to 30 minutes to work and back and be fairly happy, though with the upper limits I'm more likely to take a bus or drive on really cold days or days with heavy rain, especially if there is also wind. With these distances, taking the bus usually means I leave at the same time anyway.
I have more free time that doesn't concentrate on work this way, which means I have more time for hobbies (I draw and paint). Plus bonus physical activity.
My favorite commute ever was when it took me 30 minutes to walk to work. Most of that mile and a half was in the Skyway, so even in winter it was pleasant.
As a result, I lost 40 pounds.
Now that I don't do that walk anymore, I've gained half of that back.
I've always rather enjoyed 20-30 minute walking commutes. So long as I dress correctly, winter is usually not a big issue.
I had some weight loss at first, but I do gain a bit when I stop doing so much walking. I know I should just get out and walk anyway, but walking is so boring when I don't have somewhere to go.
I work in a big city with my office being about 10 minutes trolley ride away. It's a big enough city that once I'm out the door I never have to interact with work or anyone from work for the rest of the day or weekend. If I lived in a smaller place I think I would feel the same as you. Too close to work to feel like I'm not at work. A 15-20 minute commute would be the ideal. I'd even say 30 minutes means I can finish a chapter of an audiobook daily.
The article points out measurable health benefits from having to walk a little to and from bus and metro stops. They totally neglected talking about the advantages of commuting by bicycle though.
It would take a lot to make me switch to a job that I would not be able to reach in half an hour or so on a bike.
I thought this. As a cyclist, I actually find cycling to work generally very beneficial. Though, now I am a cyclist I think I'd also be reluctant to take a job which I either a) couldn't cycle to, or b) couldn't cycle to within a reasonable time (e.g. 30 minutes as you said).
My switch a few years back has been almost universally positive, though I do read less as a result.
I'm doing a compulsory end of studies internship in a big IT company in France, now I live in the other side of the paris area, and I refused many internships because they didn't allow remote work.
So I started with this company and asked for remote work for 3 days a week and they accepted, but when I started they sent my supervisor to work on a different project and the new one refused any form of remote work, and it was too late to change since it's a long process between the company and the school etc...
So now I do 2x2h of commute a day, and most of it is standing in a train or a subway filled with people, I tried every form of entertainment or podcasts or videos but nothing does it, I only have 1 month left though but it was the most soul crushing experience of my life.
The irony in all of this is I'm a developper and their VPN works flawlessly and I'm the only one working on the project so there are at most one meeting a week and it's done over Skype since most employees work remotely, but not interns.
I now believe that there are no actual benefits to commute (as in big city commute with subways etc...) and they're the ones losing manhours, since I could have put those 4h a day working on the project.
Or not even an extra 4 hours working on the project (why would you do that?), but a whole normal day where your brain is fresh. I’m sure you’re not in the state of mind that is optimal for work after 2 hours of a soul crushing commute.
So, you know how there's a shortage of IT'ers... After a month, if the internship is going well, ask them if they see this as an opportunity to acquire you right out of school. If they do, ask them how they think this will go now they refused to let you work from home after first agreeing on it.
I'm Moroccan, I barely convinced my fiance to wait for 1 year and she either visited or I did everytime we could so I won't be staying here. But they offered to hire me, now I'm looking at jobs in Casablanca or like another comment suggested to check the REMOTE section here.
Sorry, they screwed you. Insist on your 3 days a week, tell your new supervisor to get their head checked. You really want to waste 4h a day? Check the "REMOTE" keyword on 1st September @ HN and work on your escape already.
I only have one month left, plus it's a huge company and they can be really rigid, so I talked to HR but she said since the interview wasn't written or recorded then they can't do anything haha, plus she said interns get to learn so much more coming to the site than they would working from home, which is total bulls*it since they give you assignement and you do them, you're basically an employee who can't work remote and gets paid a fraction of what an employee does.
I've commuted long distances (over an hour each way) by train and car for nearly two decades. When driving I try to get through my podcast backlog mainly on technical things, but also now more general stuff. Sometimes I miss the ability to bring the laptop out and do something fun, but then I remember when I did train in, I ended up working most of the time, and it became an extra two hours of work per day. Like all things, it's down to self-discipline I suppose.
I have a friend of mine who commutes an hour+ by train each day and he has basically agreed with his boss that if he works on the train he can leave earlier/show up later.
I live in London and a few years ago I used to commute from east to west (Ealing to Liverpool Street). The trip is normally 45 minutes each way on the Central Line, however I would regularly miss out on a seat and be subjected to a cattle-class sweat box that just put me in a foul mood for the rest of the day.
However, being Ealing, I also had the option of taking the District Line to rougly the same place (Tower Bridge). My journery was now 1hr 15m, however with the DL's spacious air-conditioned carriages and guaranteed seat, it was well worth it. It put me in the best state of mind and allowed me to use my laptop to work on my own projects. In 6 months of 2hrs to myself each day, I wrote medistudents.com and still was able to relax at the end of the day and not let software development impact home life. Without the commute and this opportunity to work on my own things, I would have either never found the time for a side project, or p*ssed off my girlfriend for spending all night on the laptop.
Nowadays I either work from home or commute by car. It's just not the same - either from looking at the same 4 walls every day, or regarding time spent in traffic as a complete waste. And my time on my own projects has now essentially reduced to zero.
So if you commute by a comfortable bus or train, spend your time wisely. Definitely don't waste it playing Candy Crush. Take advantage of it for working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection.
Take advantage of it for working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection.
Once I had ditched my FB habit I now use my commutes for EdX on my phone. Doesn’t always work - for some things you really need to be sitting at a desk with a real keyboard and paper and pencil - but it’s definitely possible to make good progress.
I had a similar experience when working in Australia. There was a lot of space for me to pull out my laptop and do some work.
When I moved to Europe (London, then Berlin) the trains were too small and too crowded - Also they usually have seats facing other seats which is distracting. Not private enough for me to concentrate.
I used to commute in Sydney, 90 minutes door-to-door of which ~60 was on the train.
As I would leave early I would normally get a seat and spent that time triaging issues or writing code or just working on my own stuff - it was nice.
I moved overseas and my commute went to 15 minutes on the bicycle - it was much better for my health and well-being as well as being able to have breakfast with my kids, and be home in time for dinner - these didn't happen when I was spending 90 minutes a day commuting.
Since moving back to Sydney our requirements as a family were to find a place that was similar to what we had overseas - short commute for me and walking distance to shops / schools.
Some days I look back on the commute with rose-coloured glasses and the time I had to myself, but I often forget the amount of times I had to forgo social activities or the hours I spent waiting for missed or delayed trains. And of course with my kids getting older I wouldn't give up the time with them to sit on my bum on a train :)
There's only so much to listen to. On spans of weeks where I need to drive a daily commute for an hour each way, it eventually gets to the point where I prefer just listening to silence than the same old music or podcasts again.
It takes me back to times in my early 20's where I'd run out of things to do at work so would just get to "surf the internet" - eventually you just run out of stuff that will keep you entertained until the clock finally ticks round to 5pm.
I beg to differ. There are so many things you haven't heard yet. Oen strategy my friends use successfully is ask friends on social media for their recommendations around a topic or topics, or generally what they like in podcasts and radio.
"In the UK, for instance, he calculates that a 10% increase in the use of public transport could result in 1.2 million more people reaching the recommended levels of physical activity."
I suspect that's partly because our public transport has been utterly decimated to the point that you have to walk several miles a day to get to work.
The commute is a driver for one thing in this scenario: discipline.
You have no choice but to commute, so you either slog through it or use the time constructively.
As a 100% remote worker, I have no commute to motivate me to fill that time. But I can get up early and go running, visit the gym, read, prepare for work, do a side project etc during the exact time slot I would have been travelling to/from an office.
I don't miss that time spent commuting at all but sometimes I miss the enforced discipline it provides. If I'm not feeling motivated then that time just gets eaten up by sleeping late etc. Having an external motivator like commuting means you can't be lazy.
Agreed. When I am optimizing to minimize time spent driving, I have to be very disciplined with when I wake up, when I leave for work, and when I leave work. It's definitely an effort, but worth it.
If a commute takes longer than 10 minutes, it's a complete waste of time. One can try to find a "hidden pearl" there and bend arguments why it can be beneficial for improving discipline etc., nevertheless, those virtues could be achieved more efficiently without commuting while saving the most precious resource - time.
Working itself wastes time so much more than the commute, so it's better to free oneself from that altogether. Have all that time for yourself instead.
Just drop a couple of mil * to stock market and live off the dividends.
*) Not an option for most people, I know. But so is commuteless life.
I meant it the way that it's better to accept that commuting is a net negative for many reasons instead of trying to put a lipstick on a pig and spin it in a positive way. Necessary evil, most of the time.
As a child I used to commute to the school in an overcrowded public bus of late Soviet Union type. And overcrowded meant that one had to literally squeeze oneself into the bus. As it was often impossible even to look at the window as that was covered in frost the only thing that I could do was to either observe clothes of other people or listen to what people say around. One often realized that if friends or couple are loudly talking about something interesting, then the whole bus was silent trying to listen despite the noise of the engine. On many occasions the stories or talks were so fascinating or weird that it was disappointing to leave the bus.
I recall some article mentioning people get used to most positive or negative things in their lives, and after some time level back to their original base level of happiness.
There are 2 exceptions - positive one being a good pet with feedback (ie dog, or maybe even cat), and negative being longer commute. It just drains our positive energy, one bit at a time, continuously.
I used to commute to work 70-90 minutes each way with many types of transport (usually bus-train-tram but sometimes more), every day. I didn't come home drained from work, that I can handle easily, but commute was soul crushing, no matter what I read/did (and mostly I could have a seat).
Eventually enough was enough, I moved to the city where work is, and having 15 minute commute saves me freakin' 2+ hours of my life, every single work day. You can't put the price on that. And the move was positive change in my life for other reasons as well.
Many people around me tell me they can handle long commutes, but they don't appear to be very happy in their lives. Honestly, if you can, do a change in your life. You won't regret it.
For most of my 20s, I lived ~35 miles north of the city and drove to/from work. I self-reported/self-convinced that I enjoyed it most times and "didn't mind it" most other times. It made socializing, playing sports, and going out more difficult.
I then moved smack into the city, had a walking commute to work for many years, and absolutely loved that.
Now, my commute is 8 miles (each way) driving and while I'd prefer a walkable commute, I definitely can't imagine going back to driving 75 miles per day.
I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute. You can, but try not to...
>I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute. You can, but try not to...
I concur.
In my experience there is a phenomenon (in driving generically, not necessarily in driving for commuting), that I believe is connected to the fact that kms/miles driven "add up".
For me this happened on or around the 1,000,000 kms mark.
I know it sounds obvious/a truism but after one has driven for a (large) amount of kms in his/her life, he/she has "enough" of that.
The 10/15/20 kms/minutes remain "ok", but longer commutes start to be "annoying".
I am now living at a 8 km (please read as 8 minutes) drive away from work, and it is just fine, when I have to go to the nearby city (35-40 km away), and I have to do that 1 or 2 times per week, I try to avoid the car and take the train if I can.
Longish trips (200-300 or more) kms are still OK (because they are not common), but I wouldn't stand the daily commute for 40 kms.
I have to commute, but not for long, about 20 minutes by subway and some about 20-25 minutes of walking to and from subway. There're some small buses riding back and forth from and to the subway stations as well, but I deliberately walk, because nowadays you really don't get to walk much as long as you don't do it on purpose.
And the subway ride - that's one of the sparse opportunities to read a book. Though, 20 minutes is not a very long while for reading, but still. Earlier the ride would take me 30-35 minutes – even more time for reading! That's what allows to me to read a lot. Relatively a lot, of course. If I was driving a car or walking all the way I wouldn't have read even half of that amount, that's for sure.
So, for me, I believe, commute is definitely a useful thing, I'd say.
I'm mostly remote, but when I do commute it's podcasts / work-related non-fiction on the way in, and "attitude adjustment hour" music or audiobooks (usually fiction) for pleasure, on the way home.
I live in London and have a 1 hour commute by tube. I read even if I have to stand in a sweaty, crowded space. It helps with distracting me from the horrors of the journey.
It also means I get ~10 hours reading done a week, which has come to ~50 books/year for the last few years.
I read mostly non-fiction and usually they are textbooks on varied subjects (often not related to work). I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise.
> I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise.
Inspiring! I often feel uneducated so would love to get in a similar position.
Haha, definitely stick to books on topics you like, feeling uneducated does not mean you are. And if you just want to feel educated, trust me, it might never come because the more you know the more you understand that you know very little. I think it is the hallmark of the educated mind to feel a bit uneducated.
I work from an office right around my home. I suppose I don't have to commute, but in practice I go for am ambling walk around the nearby park every morning before work. I find I work veterans this way, even if I have less time.
Those are some nice benefits, but a commute is still mostly a waste.
I did the infamous SF to Mountain View commute on "The Google Bus" for two years. It's about as decent as a 1.5hr commute can be, you're on a quiet private bus with big seats and WiFi.
I spent about 80% of the time reading novels. With a few hours to myself a day I was reading a book a week no problem. In that sense it was nice.
Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or subway. Quality of life went through the roof. My girlfriend told me I seemed happier all day. I could still read in my saved time, but I was also free to spend that time on other things. I also get to spend a lot more time with my friends since I'm available to meet up after work on short notice.
Having this experience, I wouldn't go back to the commute even for a 20% raise. It's that bad.
>Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or subway.
I did the Boston version of this. My wife and I lived downtown and moved to a suburb when our son was 7 months old. My one-way commute went from a 15 minute subway ride to a 1-1.5 hour trip depending on buses and such.
Five years later, we sold our house and moved back into the city and my commute shifted to a 20 minute walk. At one point, due an office move, I could see my office from my living room (I lived in a high rise). I literally gained 40-80 extra minutes a day and lost 15 pounds. I was also able to coach my son's sports teams since leaving at 4:30pm for a 5pm practice was much easier to do than leaving at 3:30pm and wondering if I'll make it in time the entire way.
And now, 5 years after that, I've moved out of the city again. ADHD and a need for space and room to roam have forced the change. I'm back to a 40-60 minute commute and counting the days (approx 2800) until my son is off to college/out of the house and I can move back.
For about a year and a half I did a ~50% of the time commute via train that took about 90 minutes. It was less than a ten minute drive to the station and then a short walk on the other end. So not terrible.
But I would never have wanted to do that long term nor every day. It's still a big chunk out of the day and forced me into a particular schedule. It also didn't work for when I wanted to do anything in the evening in which case I had a fairly congested drive even leaving quite early in the morning.
Yeah but I don't get paid by the hour and the bus was technically "personal time". I worked on the bus only in 5-10 truly urgent situations per year.
I've also noticed that I now stay at the office later than I used to when I was on the bus, because I can go home whenever I want. So I am giving the company some "free" hours and am happy to do so. Feels like a choice not a mobile jail.
I'll chime in with the opposite experience. My wife and I went from short commutes when we lived in D.C. (5 minutes for her, 15 minutes for me), to a hour-and-fifteen minute commute from Annapolis to D.C. each day. We found we were much happier with the commute. Being parents, the extra time at home was diverted to chores and child care. The commute, by contrast, gave us time to ourselves to chat.
But the commute isn't the thing that absolved you from those responsibilities. I suppose you either stopped doing them or outsourced them, which you could have also done in your commuteless life.
Reads like “We could have finished our chores and baby duty early, to have conversations, but we opted not to. Commuting forced us to dedicate this time to ourselves, freeing our conscious from not spending time home with baby because nobody is going to judge our commute time as being irresponsible to our children”
My relationships take a nosedive when I have a long commute. It’s not that I become a jerk or anything. In both cases, my GFs commented that I was clearly much happier when the commutes ended. The quality of the time we spend together improves so much that during a recent job hunt I kept my search limited to a 10-15 minute radius from my home and didn’t even consider lucrative positions outside that range.
I too limit my job search to about a 15 (maybe 20) minute commute by car, or enough of a raise to justify moving. My quality of life is so much higher when I'm spending less than an hour a day of mandatory car time that it's simply not worth it for me to drive 45 minutes one way for an extra $80 every two weeks.
I remember reading about a guy who used his commute to meditate. he felt great about his commute, and i'd guess that carried over to life in general.
>> I also get to spend a lot more time with my friends
I think that's key. Spending your time in activities known to help create deep sense of well-being. Books/entertainment maybe do not. Friends do. Meditation probably does. Maybe there are others ?
I drive about 1.5-2 hours a day and I'd like to think there are benefits for my eyes as well. My eyes get to experience all sorts of depths and colors that aren't possible while coding or playing games or TV. Kind of like a muscle, use it or lose it. I'd like to see a study done about commuters and eyesight
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I probably wouldn't read as many books if I didn't take the train to work. But does that make it worthwhile to suffer through every morning? Tough call.
To use the examples from the article "Accelerated learning" is really not the benefit of a commute but doing "work-related prospection" (whatever that is).
I think the ideal distance is probably like 15 to 30 minutes. Enough to make "work" and "home" different places and not feel like you never get away from work, but not enough to resent all the time you're frittering away listening to imbeciles chattering away on the train while you try to read.
The ideal distance is like 15 to 30 minutes by foot. So you can plan to get some exercise while "gearing up" for work, but also be 5-10 minutes away by Uber in case you oversleep or emergency (at work or at home) calls.
I'm 19 minutes by foot. it's hot and humid where I live so 5 minutes out my clothing is drenched with sweat and by the time I make it to work I have to wait about 20-25 minutes to dry off
When I go to the office, my commute is currently ~30 minutes. It is definitely right on the edge of being too long.
My main problem with a commute is not that it's 30 minutes, but that it's 30 minutes by car. I despise driving. It seems like such a complete waste of time in general. Plus, it's dangerous dealing with a bunch of idiots on their phones. /rant over
It's funny, because I specifically didn't want to live too close to the office for the exact opposite reason - I like driving, and living within walking distance would mean that I don't get to drive every day.
Even if you do not live in a major city it is often miserable to, for instance, use the interstate. Previous major infrastructure attempts to eliminate congestion have happened in, for instance, Los Angeles... try going for a drive there at 5:00 in the afternoon and see how much you enjoy it.
I didn't say "major city", I said "one that is massively over populated relative to its transportation infrastructure" (which just so happens to include most cities that most people would consider major cities). Most medium cities are nowhere near that bad. The person I was replying to said "cities". Not "major cities that many people on the internet assume everyone who lives in a city lives in".
Unless you're quite familiar with New England you've never heard of the cities I've lived in. Nevertheless, driving still sucked. I really don't see that "people have heard of the city" has much to do with it.
I'm saying that big "brand name" cities that everyone has heard of are a clusterfuck with regard to traffic (and whatever public transit they have is equally bad). Many of the medium and small cities that compose a large amount of the population don't have this problem. Except for the state capitals, Worcester, New Haven and maybe a couple others you'd be hard pressed to be in traffic for more than 30min in Southern New England unless your commute involves the same routes in the same directions as the commuter traffic from those cities. For example, if you left work at 5pm in Lowell or Fall River traffic conditions on your way to wherever you're going would be fine by 5:30. In northern New England the only way to be stuck in traffic is to travel on a Friday or Sunday afternoon in the summer in which case the roads will be full of Massholes but one could make the argument that you're really just in Boston traffic in that case. Maybe if you get out of work in Marlboro and need to take the highway in the same direction as all the Boston traffic you could be in traffic for more than 30min but once again I'd argue that you're really just sitting in Boston traffic.
Same. It gives me a good change to unwind/listen to music. My driving commute back can be a real pain though, being 15 minutes longer than the trip there (30 to 45 mins).
That's such a shame! I live in the UK and I love driving - but also have had a special commute that few get to experience.
In short, living an hour outside of London in a small village meant that the drive to the station (to take the train to London) involved rolling hills and long and twisted scenic roads. It was really enjoyable - usually my favourite time of the day - even more so if like me you are into your cars and bought yourself a nice car to enjoy it with.
On summer evenings after work I would find myself taking 1 to 2 hour detours discovering new roads and sceneries, usually until the sunset which at peak was somewhere between 9 and 10pm. It was the best thing I ever did for my mental health, but now I live in London it's not something I can do anymore. I walk to and from work through a very busy, stressful and polluted city.
In the US, most commutes by car involve long stretches of crawling, bumper-to-bumper highway traffic where nobody wants to let you change lanes. Frankly, even if you love taking your car for a spin, I feel like you'd have to be pretty eccentric to enjoy that experience.
In a sprawling US city with poor mass transit, I don't see how sitting in traffic solo in my car along with thousands of others is helping anybody's health.
I'll take the time and money savings of working from home any day. By a very conservative estimate, commuting to work used up about 12 full days of my life every year.
I live in CA and often comute on my motrcycle. It’s a joy - carpool lanes, lane spliting, and a motorcycle I like. About 15 mins by motorcycle and could easily be 40 by car (because of carpool lanes and lane splitting, not speed)
Specifically, I do this in Melbourne, Australia where it's free and legal to park a motorcycle on the pavement (aka sidewalk). A 2012 study found that we make up almost exactly 1% of all commuters: http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf
The best commute I ever had was a 45m walk from the upper east side of Manhattan to midtown, through Central Park. I did it every day for two years in all weathers. What a wonderful way to see change each day, mark the seasons, feel connected to something approaching nature, and to gear up for and wind down from work. It isn't strictly productive but it is incredibly good for mental health.
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[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 172 ms ] threadHowever, I have a 20-30 minute bus ride to work everyday in which there are never free seats and you are often lucky if you even have room to reach into your pocket let alone watch videos on your phone.
It's hard to see any benefit to the latter commute as being rammed in like cattle doesn't aid self-reflection either.
Then again I still prefer this over 45mins of "sitting down", because I can somehow do something in that time even if worse case it's just listening to music and let my mind wander, whereas I see most of it wasted anyway
Learn to empathize.
This is mostly done on bike in The Netherlands. A normal bike supports 2 kids. There's also bikes to transport 4-5 kids. I regularly see those bigger bikes btw. It does take that your country plans things accordingly. Back in the 1960s there wasn't much of a bike infrastructure, though there were loads of cars and car accidents.
I said it is very much possible, and these were middle-aged people, not athletes by any measure.
Biking is a very energy-efficient mode of transport, it really doesn't take long before you're able to ride 20 or 30km in a single stretch.
I have more free time that doesn't concentrate on work this way, which means I have more time for hobbies (I draw and paint). Plus bonus physical activity.
As a result, I lost 40 pounds.
Now that I don't do that walk anymore, I've gained half of that back.
I had some weight loss at first, but I do gain a bit when I stop doing so much walking. I know I should just get out and walk anyway, but walking is so boring when I don't have somewhere to go.
You walk to work, and you get there nice and relaxed and ready to work.
You bike to work, and you get there all excited and sweaty, and need a few minutes to settle down before hitting the flow. Very close second, though.
You bus to work, and you arrive with a headache trying to read on the bouncy bus.
You drive to work, and you arrive all angry and stressed from the traffic.
That depends on how hard you go at it. Sure, if I keep a 25kph average speed, I'm going to be sweaty quickly.
But keep a more sedate speed, and it's no problem at all, and very relaxing.
It would take a lot to make me switch to a job that I would not be able to reach in half an hour or so on a bike.
My switch a few years back has been almost universally positive, though I do read less as a result.
45 minutes is also good - if you can use dedicated away-from-roads bike paths for the most of it :)
So I started with this company and asked for remote work for 3 days a week and they accepted, but when I started they sent my supervisor to work on a different project and the new one refused any form of remote work, and it was too late to change since it's a long process between the company and the school etc...
So now I do 2x2h of commute a day, and most of it is standing in a train or a subway filled with people, I tried every form of entertainment or podcasts or videos but nothing does it, I only have 1 month left though but it was the most soul crushing experience of my life.
The irony in all of this is I'm a developper and their VPN works flawlessly and I'm the only one working on the project so there are at most one meeting a week and it's done over Skype since most employees work remotely, but not interns. I now believe that there are no actual benefits to commute (as in big city commute with subways etc...) and they're the ones losing manhours, since I could have put those 4h a day working on the project.
E.g. I've been listening to a lot of Jared Diamond hile driving. Dan Carlin Hardcore History is also great. https://www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/
I have a friend of mine who commutes an hour+ by train each day and he has basically agreed with his boss that if he works on the train he can leave earlier/show up later.
However, being Ealing, I also had the option of taking the District Line to rougly the same place (Tower Bridge). My journery was now 1hr 15m, however with the DL's spacious air-conditioned carriages and guaranteed seat, it was well worth it. It put me in the best state of mind and allowed me to use my laptop to work on my own projects. In 6 months of 2hrs to myself each day, I wrote medistudents.com and still was able to relax at the end of the day and not let software development impact home life. Without the commute and this opportunity to work on my own things, I would have either never found the time for a side project, or p*ssed off my girlfriend for spending all night on the laptop.
Nowadays I either work from home or commute by car. It's just not the same - either from looking at the same 4 walls every day, or regarding time spent in traffic as a complete waste. And my time on my own projects has now essentially reduced to zero.
So if you commute by a comfortable bus or train, spend your time wisely. Definitely don't waste it playing Candy Crush. Take advantage of it for working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection.
Once I had ditched my FB habit I now use my commutes for EdX on my phone. Doesn’t always work - for some things you really need to be sitting at a desk with a real keyboard and paper and pencil - but it’s definitely possible to make good progress.
When I moved to Europe (London, then Berlin) the trains were too small and too crowded - Also they usually have seats facing other seats which is distracting. Not private enough for me to concentrate.
As I would leave early I would normally get a seat and spent that time triaging issues or writing code or just working on my own stuff - it was nice.
I moved overseas and my commute went to 15 minutes on the bicycle - it was much better for my health and well-being as well as being able to have breakfast with my kids, and be home in time for dinner - these didn't happen when I was spending 90 minutes a day commuting.
Since moving back to Sydney our requirements as a family were to find a place that was similar to what we had overseas - short commute for me and walking distance to shops / schools.
Some days I look back on the commute with rose-coloured glasses and the time I had to myself, but I often forget the amount of times I had to forgo social activities or the hours I spent waiting for missed or delayed trains. And of course with my kids getting older I wouldn't give up the time with them to sit on my bum on a train :)
It takes me back to times in my early 20's where I'd run out of things to do at work so would just get to "surf the internet" - eventually you just run out of stuff that will keep you entertained until the clock finally ticks round to 5pm.
I suspect that's partly because our public transport has been utterly decimated to the point that you have to walk several miles a day to get to work.
Unless you live somewhere like London, I suppose.
You have no choice but to commute, so you either slog through it or use the time constructively.
As a 100% remote worker, I have no commute to motivate me to fill that time. But I can get up early and go running, visit the gym, read, prepare for work, do a side project etc during the exact time slot I would have been travelling to/from an office.
I don't miss that time spent commuting at all but sometimes I miss the enforced discipline it provides. If I'm not feeling motivated then that time just gets eaten up by sleeping late etc. Having an external motivator like commuting means you can't be lazy.
Just drop a couple of mil * to stock market and live off the dividends.
*) Not an option for most people, I know. But so is commuteless life.
There are 2 exceptions - positive one being a good pet with feedback (ie dog, or maybe even cat), and negative being longer commute. It just drains our positive energy, one bit at a time, continuously.
I used to commute to work 70-90 minutes each way with many types of transport (usually bus-train-tram but sometimes more), every day. I didn't come home drained from work, that I can handle easily, but commute was soul crushing, no matter what I read/did (and mostly I could have a seat).
Eventually enough was enough, I moved to the city where work is, and having 15 minute commute saves me freakin' 2+ hours of my life, every single work day. You can't put the price on that. And the move was positive change in my life for other reasons as well.
Many people around me tell me they can handle long commutes, but they don't appear to be very happy in their lives. Honestly, if you can, do a change in your life. You won't regret it.
I then moved smack into the city, had a walking commute to work for many years, and absolutely loved that.
Now, my commute is 8 miles (each way) driving and while I'd prefer a walkable commute, I definitely can't imagine going back to driving 75 miles per day.
I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute. You can, but try not to...
I concur.
In my experience there is a phenomenon (in driving generically, not necessarily in driving for commuting), that I believe is connected to the fact that kms/miles driven "add up".
For me this happened on or around the 1,000,000 kms mark.
I know it sounds obvious/a truism but after one has driven for a (large) amount of kms in his/her life, he/she has "enough" of that.
The 10/15/20 kms/minutes remain "ok", but longer commutes start to be "annoying".
I am now living at a 8 km (please read as 8 minutes) drive away from work, and it is just fine, when I have to go to the nearby city (35-40 km away), and I have to do that 1 or 2 times per week, I try to avoid the car and take the train if I can.
Longish trips (200-300 or more) kms are still OK (because they are not common), but I wouldn't stand the daily commute for 40 kms.
The main positive thing that came from this commute was reading for pleasure (somthing I was not doing beforehand)
I don't try to max productivity on the commute, and my mental health thanks me for that
And the subway ride - that's one of the sparse opportunities to read a book. Though, 20 minutes is not a very long while for reading, but still. Earlier the ride would take me 30-35 minutes – even more time for reading! That's what allows to me to read a lot. Relatively a lot, of course. If I was driving a car or walking all the way I wouldn't have read even half of that amount, that's for sure.
So, for me, I believe, commute is definitely a useful thing, I'd say.
It also means I get ~10 hours reading done a week, which has come to ~50 books/year for the last few years.
I read mostly non-fiction and usually they are textbooks on varied subjects (often not related to work). I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise.
Inspiring! I often feel uneducated so would love to get in a similar position.
OT but any books you recommend?
I did the infamous SF to Mountain View commute on "The Google Bus" for two years. It's about as decent as a 1.5hr commute can be, you're on a quiet private bus with big seats and WiFi.
I spent about 80% of the time reading novels. With a few hours to myself a day I was reading a book a week no problem. In that sense it was nice.
Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or subway. Quality of life went through the roof. My girlfriend told me I seemed happier all day. I could still read in my saved time, but I was also free to spend that time on other things. I also get to spend a lot more time with my friends since I'm available to meet up after work on short notice.
Having this experience, I wouldn't go back to the commute even for a 20% raise. It's that bad.
I did the Boston version of this. My wife and I lived downtown and moved to a suburb when our son was 7 months old. My one-way commute went from a 15 minute subway ride to a 1-1.5 hour trip depending on buses and such.
Five years later, we sold our house and moved back into the city and my commute shifted to a 20 minute walk. At one point, due an office move, I could see my office from my living room (I lived in a high rise). I literally gained 40-80 extra minutes a day and lost 15 pounds. I was also able to coach my son's sports teams since leaving at 4:30pm for a 5pm practice was much easier to do than leaving at 3:30pm and wondering if I'll make it in time the entire way.
And now, 5 years after that, I've moved out of the city again. ADHD and a need for space and room to roam have forced the change. I'm back to a 40-60 minute commute and counting the days (approx 2800) until my son is off to college/out of the house and I can move back.
But I would never have wanted to do that long term nor every day. It's still a big chunk out of the day and forced me into a particular schedule. It also didn't work for when I wanted to do anything in the evening in which case I had a fairly congested drive even leaving quite early in the morning.
Bear in mind you just cited 29% of 8 hours extra (140 extra minutes) for that 20% raise.
I've also noticed that I now stay at the office later than I used to when I was on the bus, because I can go home whenever I want. So I am giving the company some "free" hours and am happy to do so. Feels like a choice not a mobile jail.
I calculated that I am £1000 / $1300 better off per month just from not commuting not counting my pay rise
Travel to / from station 220
misc coffee news paper 100
Say £800 after income tax and NI is eqvielent to almost £1000
My relationships take a nosedive when I have a long commute. It’s not that I become a jerk or anything. In both cases, my GFs commented that I was clearly much happier when the commutes ended. The quality of the time we spend together improves so much that during a recent job hunt I kept my search limited to a 10-15 minute radius from my home and didn’t even consider lucrative positions outside that range.
>> I also get to spend a lot more time with my friends
I think that's key. Spending your time in activities known to help create deep sense of well-being. Books/entertainment maybe do not. Friends do. Meditation probably does. Maybe there are others ?
To use the examples from the article "Accelerated learning" is really not the benefit of a commute but doing "work-related prospection" (whatever that is).
My main problem with a commute is not that it's 30 minutes, but that it's 30 minutes by car. I despise driving. It seems like such a complete waste of time in general. Plus, it's dangerous dealing with a bunch of idiots on their phones. /rant over
Self driving cars still waste a lot of space, if they're only transporting one or two people.
In short, living an hour outside of London in a small village meant that the drive to the station (to take the train to London) involved rolling hills and long and twisted scenic roads. It was really enjoyable - usually my favourite time of the day - even more so if like me you are into your cars and bought yourself a nice car to enjoy it with.
On summer evenings after work I would find myself taking 1 to 2 hour detours discovering new roads and sceneries, usually until the sunset which at peak was somewhere between 9 and 10pm. It was the best thing I ever did for my mental health, but now I live in London it's not something I can do anymore. I walk to and from work through a very busy, stressful and polluted city.
I'll take the time and money savings of working from home any day. By a very conservative estimate, commuting to work used up about 12 full days of my life every year.
Unless you like to drive, or in my case, love to drive. I.e., it's subjective.
I absolutely hate driving in traffic.
Specifically, I do this in Melbourne, Australia where it's free and legal to park a motorcycle on the pavement (aka sidewalk). A 2012 study found that we make up almost exactly 1% of all commuters: http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf