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Ask HN: Web app for non-web savvy audience

3 points by msquared ↗ HN
Going along with the general consensus of those "I'm working on a super-secret-confidential-double-dodeca-awesome project and I can't give anything away" lines, I have a question for you HNers. This isn't a throwaway, this is my account. Mind you, I hardly post, but believe me, I browse. I browse like a badass.

I'm working on a tracking tool and social network for a very (very) specific niche market. It's not particularly small, but it's a market that isn't intimately familiar with the concepts of Web 2.0. I'd wager most of them still use antiquated versions of IE. That being said, most of them are involved in forums of some sort or another. In fact, what I'm trying to do is centralize and standardize what they do in some of these forums. I'm unsure how my notoriously stubborn audience will adapt from phpBB to my proprietary tool.

The purpose of this project? Well, I'm part of this community (not the web-illiterate part). I wanted to build something for myself (started in Excel, years ago, ugh). After speaking with a bunch of people also involved, it seems that virtually everyone I spoke to is enthusiastic about my idea. I've gotten a group of beta testers that I define in a range of browsing skills to see how my program works. It's an interesting challenge, building a web app for people that barely understand the concept, let alone the definition. I've never built a site this large all by my lonesome, so I'm excited to see how I manage, from conception to production without a cofounder or team. This is more of a portfolio builder that I scrape a few hours a week together to work on than a business venture, but it wouldn't be terrible to earn a little advertising revenue.

Have any of you dealt with a large, decentralized, and non web-savvy audience before? If so, any advice?

EDIT: from my comments, revorad broke me down and got me to spill the beans on my project. It didn't take long. I would make a terrible spy. Here's the project info, in a little more detail.

It's a target score tracking tool for gun owners, built around aggregating scores, ammunition makes/types, individual gun scores, etc to let individuals track how well they do (in general, with one of their guns, etc) and track performance metrics across the user base to determine which ammo works well, which guns perform best, etc.

So, a tracking tool mixed with a social network. I guess. It started as something to help me track my scores and see how I progressed. I made a score calculating algorithm just using Excel that factored in ring size, distance, wind, and a whole load of other factors and it worked really well. I had one of those "this is madness" moments and started porting it into a CakePHP app.

There are a ton of AJAX page interactions, UI/UX elements, etc that are very different from what traditional message boards and forums use.

12 comments

[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 37.1 ms ] thread
revorad
Please just show us what you built. Don't waste time.
msquared
It's not live, and it's for the gun owning community. You didn't really need to know that to answer the question though, the basics still remain: do you have any advice for dealing with a non-web-savvy audience?

Sorry I don't have anything to show right now, though. Wish I did.

revorad
Well ok, fair enough. But at least describe it in detail. Non-web-savvy people is too vague.

The only thing I can think of for "dealing with" your audience is to go and talk to them and listen to what their problems are. If they match your idea of what their problems are, then tell them about your product. Otherwise, build what will solve their problem.

If you're wondering how you will get them online to use your webapp, find out what they use the web already for (email) and use that as a channel to get in. If your audience is people who're not using the web at all, pick another audience.

PS A lot of stuff like this gets posted on HN. If you want to get noticed and useful help, be specific and detailed.

msquared
Thanks for the advice, will take it into consideration. Saw a similar post that made it into the top submissions, figured I'd add my own.
revorad
There's a lot of luck involved in submissions getting to the top. All you can do is make it the best possible.

Here's an idea: Make a simple landing page explaining your idea with an email sign up form. Submit that as a link, rather than a text post.

It will most likely get a lot more upvotes.

msquared
I've been doing just that, running each flashy new component by the panel of people with varying web skills.

And non tech savvy means just like what it sounds like. Imagine 35+ year olds running antiquated versions of IE. That's my target base.

revorad
Ok, so clearly you've already got some data from interactions with your audience. If you shared that, you would likely get useful feedback on that.

Just because most people here are programmers, does not mean they don't have interests or know people with interests in non-tech domains (guns? ESR?).

From whatever little you've mentioned, it seems unlikely you are building a node.js chat box for gun lovers,

So, is it ecommerce or a message board?

msquared
It's a target score tracking tool, built around aggregating scores, ammunition makes/types, individual gun scores, etc to let individuals track how well they do (in general, with one of their guns, etc) and track performance metrics across the user base to determine which ammo works well, which guns perform best, etc.

So, a tracking tool mixed with a social network. I guess.

It started as something to help me track my scores and see how I progressed. I made a score calculating algorithm just using Excel that factored in ring size, distance, wind, and a whole load of other factors and it worked really well. I had one of those "this is madness" moments and started porting it into a CakePHP app.

There are a ton of AJAX page interactions, UI/UX elements, etc that are very different from what traditional message boards and forums use.

Darkstar
The best thing I can tell you is to be consistent. The impression you first give the user will be what they will expect throughout your site, web-savvy or not. If you change how you input or display data in different parts of your site it will only serve to confuse the user.

For the older crowd that uses just email I would suggest not overloading them with information. Too much information on one screen can be a pain to sift through and usually the younger crowd doesn't mind it as much - mostly because they don't read so much as skim, though - but the older crowd will find it to be a chore.

Users understand the back and forward buttons on a browser. Try not to create a situation where the browser buttons would not function as expected. Too much AJAX or wanton use of a lightbox could be considered such situations.

Lastly, visually offsetting the content of your site versus the layout (menus, headers, footers, etc.) can go a long way to guiding usage of your application.

msquared
Agreed. I've been templating the site to maintain placement of information. This is the third iteration of this projects design, and it has been trimmed and slimmed in each version. I like the most recent one. It's not overwhelming, but it contains all the necessary information.

I do have to keep in mind browser back/forward links and how they will affect site usage. I know I'm part of my target demo, but I'm also more technically inclined. Plus, I'm close to the project so I need (and have) people with objective eyes to review it.

msquared
Haha yeah. Not entirely sure why I keep playing the contents of this site close to the vest. And interesting. I had not considered selling the Excel version of the product. That could be an interesting revenue generator, and definitely a way to get users involved.

My first attempt at getting a solid user base was going to be through word of mouth (seemingly, one of the best marketing practices in this niche) and getting the word out on my home forum. They have a built in audience of 20,000 or so, and I interact with a lot of them regularly, so I'm figuring I can easily jumpstart membership, assuming my product is easy enough to use.

There are also a few advertising venues I can use. There are magazines, but this is being built out of pocket and I don't have a large marketing budget. Matter of fact, I have no budget. My budget is: spend as little money as possible. This has been more of an exercise in flexing my coding skills primarily, so making money takes a back seat. I'm hoping I produce a better product that way.

People go to public and private ranges alike, and every chance I get I talk to other shooters about my project. Everyone seems enthusiastic (with the caveat of a little fear.. apparently this crowd is a little afraid of the word "tracking," no joke. I will have to consider that sometime soon).

I just joined a private range in Philly and when I get closer to completion I'm going to start pimping it out there, if they let me.

I will read that article you linked me to when I get some time today, I barely have enough to keep checking this page.

My biggest hurdle is getting these users to adapt to change. I also have to deal with the technical hurdle of making my site work in deprecated versions of browsers. It's going to be a fun challenge, no doubt.

revorad
Wow man, so you already have the version 1 of a product you yourself use in a pretty good size market that you are privy to. Do you know most people on HN would kill to be in that position???

Honestly, stop holding those cards close to the chest and start selling to anyone and everyone who will listen.

Put up a simple one-page website (use http://unbounce.com to get going) and post the link on HN. Oh and get some advice from patio11 (if anyone, he understands non-web-savvy people).

Good luck and I hope to see your site soon!