I understand and welcome more alternatives to Lineage but what's wrong with their user interface?
If you want to make a better Lineage, I think having built in default app stores like Apkpure, encrypted system proxies, isolating apps from each other in better ways... Aren't those more worthy privacy oriented things to work on?
I appreciate the reason for the name change, but if the goal is to target laypeople, /e/ is not obviously pronounceable or meaningful for my mom or kids/teens.
This kind of project will never get any kind of attention by laypeople, so it's good that they know that and aren't even trying. Less wasted energy :-)
I actually miss the days of bastardized short words as product names. Yeh some of them got a bit ridiculous, but they were unique and easily searchable. Flickr, Google, etc. People were creating brands that stood out, were memorable, and they owned their entire results pages.
Now we're using common nouns as names for everything and it has completely broken the ability to search for both the product AND the common nouns.
Which is why the section in the article continues:
> We understand that this textual representation is not ideal for talking about the project and searching about it.
> We have decided to hold off on change to the name for the beta release. Along with the v1 stable version, we will introduce a new name for the mobile system that will be easy to remember and to adopt.
It's similar to //e which is how Apple IIe was stylized. If it's not going to be a trademark issue, it seems like a clever branding hack to me. Anyone who grew up in the 80s & early 90s or earlier might be subtly influenced by it.
I think /e/ cute and that plenty of brands have succeeded despite being unrecognizable and unsearchable.
The meaningful symbol seems related to AirBnb and their bélo [1], which I think was largely successful.
I am guessing the comment was more about how geocities closed down one day and whatever interesting content it contained (alongside uninteresting parts no doubt) disappeared with it.
Why aren’t companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook not setting aside a few million dollars a year to support efforts like this and the Firefox phone?
Heck, even the carriers would be so much better off if they spent some money on similar projects. They don’t need to spend too much, and if one of them takes off, especially if it’s open source, then it helps reduce the tremendous risks they face since the mobile OS market is currently completely owned by 2 of their competitors.
Which makes it interesting for them to have an OS that won't lock particular software out in a play akin to what MS is trying to to to Valve by using their monopoly, a dogmatic Richard Stallman approach to this would ironically save them from that.
Still? I thought they had spun off their mobile hardware division and were instead mostly focusing on mobile software. Would make some sense for them to try to do the same thing they did with PCs and IBM back in the day, since the OS is already open source (mostly).
The rumors are they're still doing one last ditch, Surface Phone due to the growing Surface ecosystem that is making them money and people liking it so far.
However, they're not going to release that until they finish the CShell that they're working on the past several years.
That's a ridiculous rumor that is perpetuated by windows phone fans that can't accept the reality of their favorite company failed so miserably in mobile. There will never be another Windows phone because no one would buy it and no developer would develop for it.
Are they skipping 15 for a bunch of phones? I'm on a 2015 Motorola phone that still gets weekly 14.1 updates, and I kinda wonder if it's just EOL even for Lineage.
Generally speaking you still depend on the device manufacturer to ship a compatible vendor partition in order to run a given version of LineageOS. This means that if your device doesn't have an official version of Android 8, then it will never be able to run LineageOS 15.
That's just bullshit there are always phones getting late support for newer releases sometimes even over 1 1/2 year later. Don't spread lies like this.
I wouldn't call it a hard fork, more a downstream derivative. In a similar way, Ubuntu rebases itself on debian unstable every 6 months or so.
That is to say Duval based his product on whichever LineageOS release was 'current' at the time but plans to sync to the next available release when his next development cycle allows (which is Oreo, currently).
Services is the thing /e/ is also trying to solve. They plan to make the complete package. For the tech savvy, you'll be able to install those services on your own server.
Great initiative, have been looking for an alternative for some time. I had high hopes for Sailfish (https://sailfishos.org/) but for a while it only ran on Sony Xperia, current status not clear to me. Anyone has experience with Sailfish?
I ran it a long time back on a nexus 4, was pretty good. My biggest problem with it is apps. There's 2 or 3 apps that I really need and these are iOS or Android only
I was going to reply and say "original" just means not directly copied, but now that I look back at the screenshot, I would believe anyone telling me that it was of a new iOS version.
Then go with Oneplus. 2 years and 2 months and my oneplus 3 with dual sim or 1 sim/ 1 sd card is still working perfectly fine and receiving updates, getting Android P before 2019 (in theory)
> Samsungs have crappy battery life and no SD slot. I know because I'm typing this on a Galaxy S6.
Samsung brought back SD to their flagship line with the S7/Note7 generation. The S6 / Note5 generation is the only one that didn't have SD, as I recall.
Xiaomi Picophone F1. SD845, 4-6GB RAM, micro-sd slot, 4000mAh. Popular enough for treble and lineageOS dev last I've checked... I'm actually using a whyred (RN5) now which is it's cheaper cousin with SD635 and fully flourishing custom ROM scenes.
It looks very interesting (Pocophone, right? Not Picophone? [Even though "Picophone" sounds better to me]). But it's just out, and that too only in India? or at least not in the US, and it doesn't seem to support all of the US bands.
Also, no lineageos support at this point. not surprising, given its newness. But looks like one to keep an eye on!
It's getting a bit long in the tooth, but the Samsung S5 has a microSD slot (up to 128Gb), is waterproof, and has decent battery life. What is more, just pop up the back and swap a new battery (US$14 off of Amazon) in. And it has LineageOS 15.1 on it. Again, it is older, but is a high end phone.
I really wish someone would have the balls to do something really ass-kicking, like make a PhoneOS that can run all your functions and still give you something special .. it seems to be within grasp in various and sundry vertical embedded markets, but nobody has the druthers to take on Apple.
So really, its not just the OS/distribution/custom-tweaked-environment/game-engine. Its also the hardware.
Like, how can I get the hardware I need to try this out, without going through hoops?
To me that's a bit more of an issue than a broiled and flailed distro-dejour re-incarnate...
Hey, first of all, I love to see the custom rom scene still doing its thing. I think we need to keep fighting to keep our phones as open and as 'ours' as possible.
But we, and I mean, a big 'we' as everyone in XDA Developers, Lineage OS developers etc, have as a group a tremendous knowledge in this area.In fact, for the most developed phones, we know almost everything about them. If only everyone could get toghether and do something _better_ than an Android derivative...
I've been thinking for a while in Libhybris. There's a lot of people working on tweaking a library that talks to closed vendor blobs, on which every single one of them is different, to be able to use native libraries directly with files that were compiled for a framework that isn't available on the target system.
What if we could use the Android Framework as an API layer, instead of rewriting everything for every single version of every single library ever shipped with an Android phone? I am talking on stripping down most of an Android AOSP image, just up to the point where the System Server kicks in (just up to a modified Zygote or something like that), and then use the open Android API specifications to actually talk to the hardware through it. Then we could make a standard library which would work with _every single Android phone_
Ubuntu touch, Firefox OS were a failure because they weren't compatible with the existing ecosystem and because developers wouldn't invest in making apps for _yet_ another framework. But Sailfish OS has an Android compatibility layer that lets them run Android apps in their Nemo/Mer/Maemo/Meego hybrid. Chrome OS can also run Android apps.
If you can get those two poins toghether, you can have a platform where most of the available phones can run your OS, and you can also take advantage of the million of applications developed for Android. If you add that to either Ubuntu Touch, Purism's OS, KDE Mobile or any other OS which is still in development, you could have the biggest the Community has had for the last 10 years.
> What if we could use the Android Framework as an API layer, instead of rewriting everything for every single version of every single library ever shipped with an Android phone? I am talking on stripping down most of an Android AOSP image, just up to the point where the System Server kicks in (just up to a modified Zygote or something like that), and then use the open Android API specifications to actually talk to the hardware through it.
eOS has trademark issues. Same reason that elementaryOS doesn't use it and actively discourages users from doing so. Though... users call it that anyways.
OP is right - they should really fix their name to address all these issues:
(1) Search engine-ability. Zero people are going to be able to discover this.
(2) Unique domain name. e.com/io/whatever is already taken (so is eos.com).
(3) Not trademarked.
This looks very interesting. I'm not sure I understanding all of the forking though - why not just leverage LineageOS, K9 etc. as is just as to leave more time/energy for the other bits rather than having to separate maintain (security patches etc.) the forked bits?
Boring. I'd like to see a smartphone that ditches the "app" model (where your phone is an appendage of other people's brands) to a "personal assistant" (where your phone works for you.)
I like that idea, but I think the real world implementation of that would be one huge monolith app (still owned by one company) like WeChat. Maybe if Google made an app which integrated all their services :P
I would like the OS to have 1 messaging app, 1 email app, 1 calendar app etc. Then underneath, each provider has their own interface to their backend. Then we can integrate everything into one system.
Now this idea still needs a lot of work. But, IMO we need to get away from the app model onto some new paradigm. Present us with our information /data directly without having to open apps. Think android widgets on steroids. Windows phone actually had some of this, with letting you create tiles that where contacts or other info.
if this work will be great!
and ppl are not so concerned about privacy but the google imposition of google apps and services into their phones. that's one of factors ppl use linux and bsd.
While it's awesome you're building a competing infrastructure, it's dead in the water (at least to me) if it doesn't integrate with what I have already.
Why do people do this? It makes for dreadful UX. Reimplementing scrolling is already a sin; in this case it's even worse. The whole website feels slow, the scrolling is confusing and inconsistent.
Same thing with floating navbars and other fancy stuff, don't do it if you're unable to make it perfect.
128 comments
[ 4.4 ms ] story [ 197 ms ] threadIf you want to make a better Lineage, I think having built in default app stores like Apkpure, encrypted system proxies, isolating apps from each other in better ways... Aren't those more worthy privacy oriented things to work on?
Discussion appears to be here: https://www.indidea.org/gael/blog/leaving-apple-and-google-e...
I appreciate the reason for the name change, but if the goal is to target laypeople, /e/ is not obviously pronounceable or meaningful for my mom or kids/teens.
If you're not googleable, you're going to have a hard time
Now we're using common nouns as names for everything and it has completely broken the ability to search for both the product AND the common nouns.
> We understand that this textual representation is not ideal for talking about the project and searching about it.
> We have decided to hold off on change to the name for the beta release. Along with the v1 stable version, we will introduce a new name for the mobile system that will be easy to remember and to adopt.
So: They are aware and have a plan.
I think /e/ cute and that plenty of brands have succeeded despite being unrecognizable and unsearchable.
The meaningful symbol seems related to AirBnb and their bélo [1], which I think was largely successful.
1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMITXMrrVQU
http://i2.wp.com/www.applerescueofdenver.com/wp-content/uplo...
and the 2e was //
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/173244543923_/APPLE-...
"slashy slash"
"Slashy McSlash Face"
On the contrary, it's a scientific notation for a specific pronunciation of the letter e.
/e/ represents in linguistics an unrounded closed-mid front vowel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close-mid_front_unrounded_vo...
'Linux' was non obvious to the point that Linus issued his own voice recording. 'gif' vs 'jif' for the image format, etc.
Life is compromise.
Heck, even the carriers would be so much better off if they spent some money on similar projects. They don’t need to spend too much, and if one of them takes off, especially if it’s open source, then it helps reduce the tremendous risks they face since the mobile OS market is currently completely owned by 2 of their competitors.
However, they're not going to release that until they finish the CShell that they're working on the past several years.
Is "spun off" code for they took a 10 billion dollar loss on it and shut it down?
No new phones being manufactured as of about a year ago, and support is ending at the end of next year.
1. They own part of Facebook.
2. They operate an ad company
3. They target their users
4. They steal data from their users Windows PC's and call it "Telemetry"
5. They advertise in their own OS
6. They preinstal bloatware on their own OS
7. They own Linked In (the Facebook of resume's) and data mine their users.
8. They were the first to sign up with the NSA in 2007
9. They operate data centers in China operated by state run companies that give their users data to the Chinese government.
When it comes to spyware, Microsoft has you covered.
Generally speaking you still depend on the device manufacturer to ship a compatible vendor partition in order to run a given version of LineageOS. This means that if your device doesn't have an official version of Android 8, then it will never be able to run LineageOS 15.
If your device doesn't already support 15, then it's highly unlikely that it will ever seen an official release with 15, or 16, or anything >14.1.
That is to say Duval based his product on whichever LineageOS release was 'current' at the time but plans to sync to the next available release when his next development cycle allows (which is Oreo, currently).
In other words, they're making the complete package and they plan to target average people.
Will have a look at /e/ this weekend!
It looks like a very slight variation of iOS. Not particularly original at all.
Google says the OnePlus 3 doesn't have it either, is that wrong?
Samsung brought back SD to their flagship line with the S7/Note7 generation. The S6 / Note5 generation is the only one that didn't have SD, as I recall.
Also, no lineageos support at this point. not surprising, given its newness. But looks like one to keep an eye on!
So really, its not just the OS/distribution/custom-tweaked-environment/game-engine. Its also the hardware.
Like, how can I get the hardware I need to try this out, without going through hoops?
To me that's a bit more of an issue than a broiled and flailed distro-dejour re-incarnate...
But we, and I mean, a big 'we' as everyone in XDA Developers, Lineage OS developers etc, have as a group a tremendous knowledge in this area.In fact, for the most developed phones, we know almost everything about them. If only everyone could get toghether and do something _better_ than an Android derivative...
I've been thinking for a while in Libhybris. There's a lot of people working on tweaking a library that talks to closed vendor blobs, on which every single one of them is different, to be able to use native libraries directly with files that were compiled for a framework that isn't available on the target system.
What if we could use the Android Framework as an API layer, instead of rewriting everything for every single version of every single library ever shipped with an Android phone? I am talking on stripping down most of an Android AOSP image, just up to the point where the System Server kicks in (just up to a modified Zygote or something like that), and then use the open Android API specifications to actually talk to the hardware through it. Then we could make a standard library which would work with _every single Android phone_
Ubuntu touch, Firefox OS were a failure because they weren't compatible with the existing ecosystem and because developers wouldn't invest in making apps for _yet_ another framework. But Sailfish OS has an Android compatibility layer that lets them run Android apps in their Nemo/Mer/Maemo/Meego hybrid. Chrome OS can also run Android apps.
If you can get those two poins toghether, you can have a platform where most of the available phones can run your OS, and you can also take advantage of the million of applications developed for Android. If you add that to either Ubuntu Touch, Purism's OS, KDE Mobile or any other OS which is still in development, you could have the biggest the Community has had for the last 10 years.
Edit: typos everywhere
They certainly didn't go for an Android-compatible app layer though.
With HIDL it should be easier to build a clean abstraction on top of any Android base starting at Oreo.
Sounds like project Treble?
It is not easy to say, remember, or look for.
This was dead before it even got off the ground, which is unfortunate because the OS looks nice.
OP is right - they should really fix their name to address all these issues: (1) Search engine-ability. Zero people are going to be able to discover this. (2) Unique domain name. e.com/io/whatever is already taken (so is eos.com). (3) Not trademarked.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=eos
Now this idea still needs a lot of work. But, IMO we need to get away from the app model onto some new paradigm. Present us with our information /data directly without having to open apps. Think android widgets on steroids. Windows phone actually had some of this, with letting you create tiles that where contacts or other info.
While it's awesome you're building a competing infrastructure, it's dead in the water (at least to me) if it doesn't integrate with what I have already.
“the chat application is Telegram”
Is this satire?