Ask HN: What information do you consider before investing in a stock?
My startup is in the finance space and we're wondering what information is important to individual investors.
We have identified the first three aspects our tool will analyze: the quality of a stock's balance sheet, its history of generating cash and the amount of cash it generates compared to the amount it invests. We use proven value investing standards to grade each aspect.
What other information do you consider before investing in a stock?
26 comments
[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 78.4 ms ] threadBesides what you have listed above, I like to do a lot of comparisons to peers in the rest of their industry. So when I see an insurance company trading at 1/2 their shareholders' equity and the industry average is 1x, that is interesting.
I also like to see figures such as returns on invested capital (EBIT/NWC+PP&E), ROE, ROA, and things such as gross margins vs operating margins.
I like when I can get both EBIT and EBITDA relatively quickly as well.
I really really like to see how the numbers have developed and changed over time. If you go onto Morningstar you can get data on key figures over a 10 year period. You can find some really useful trends by looking at that data.
I do a lot of quick math when looking at a stock too. Such as calculating FCF and seeing what it versus the stock price (so P/FCF or FCF/P for yield).
Our tool also calculates how much your stock is worth, so to be able to combine that with a relative value approach would be pretty powerful. We're adding it to the list!
We calculate Cash ROIC, not ROIC, because we believe cash is king. We'll take a look at ROE & ROA, but we also calculate FCF yield. When comparing gross to operating, what insight are you seeking to gain?
Yeah, Morningstar has solid data like that. We're planning to analyze how shareholders' equity & free cash flow have grown (or shrank) over the past 10 years.
Shoot me an email. It's in my profile. Or tweet @vurudotco . Your feedback would be great as we move forward!
What in particular would you like to know? If its steady or if its been growing over a number of years?
This would make trying out different investment strategies and portfolio allocations much easier.
Thanks for your feedback! And follow us on twitter @vurudotco
But for value investing, I try to do as much analysis of the business model, recent initiatives and the top execs as possible. Businesses don't make decisions, key people within businesses make decisions. This is a little wishy-washy, if you will, though -- it is Warren Buffet 101 on the other hand. Maybe you could develop some sort of quantification of top talent via some checklist or tiers of achievement.
We're actually looking at ways of measuring management performance. If we can do it, it'll be great for Buffett fans everywhere, myself included!
Sign up on our website (http://www.vuru.co) or follow us on twitter @vurudotco to stay up to date as we move forward!
But for value investing, I try to do as much analysis of the business model, recent initiatives and the top execs as possible. Businesses don't make decisions, key people within businesses make decisions. This is a little wishy-washy, if you will, though -- it is Warren Buffet 101 on the other hand. Maybe you could develop some sort of quantification of top talent via some checklist or tiers of achievement.
-Relevant industry multiple relative to peers
-Insider trades (Executive or board of director trades)
-Value catalysts such as M&A, restructuring, spin-offs, etc.
Other stuff really depends on specific industry, feel free to ask any follow-up questions
We're planning to provide a projected growth rate, but to be able to compare that to pgr of peers is a pretty cool idea.
Hmm, how would you measure value catalysts?
Shoot me an email. It's in my profile. Or tweet @vurudotco . Your feedback would be great as we move forward!
- rate of stockholder's equity growth, over 10 years
- a graph that projects that growth over the next 10 years, assuming I buy 1 share at today's price; plotted with a projection of the same dollar investment in an index fund (projected from its long-term return).
BONUS: do the same for earnings (I don't actually do this, but I should - because shareholder's equity is artificially influenced by things like 'goodwill' from acquisitions; and employees exercising bonus options. Earnings is closer to what a business actually does; I just really like stockholder's equity for its apparent simplicity).
Additional information is comparison to other stocks, such as within a related index (use GICS or similar codes). So how does the balance sheet compare to competitors?
As for other investment metrics, take a look at the Piotroski score:
http://www.grahaminvestor.com/articles/quantitative-tools/th...
In both cases those methods yield potential investments which I then look at financials as a basic check - does this company's balance sheet and P&L indicate anything obviously dodgy? More importantly, do their accounts offer any insight as to how their business is actually going; in many cases I find this is not the case as through sufficient accounting manipulation little reflection of reality is left in the reported figures.
In terms of your service what I would like to see is some sort of graph of executive management & directors and their histories. I have a personal blacklist of individuals based on their ability to ruin companies, and I also have a few folks that I basically would invest in anything they do. This is largely industry specific though not always the case as there are folks from finance & legal backgrounds who end up being chairmen or directors across a wide variety of industries; this can be good for finding investments in new industries.
Another thing is the company's history, particularly (but not limited to) the balance sheet. In some cases future prospects look great but the company has burnt existing investors through heavily dilutive raisings (as an example). These holders will suppress any rise in price so for me that is a reason to stay clear despite everything else.
You asked about "before" but on-going is also important. For the small (speculative) companies that I invest in I try to stalk most of their staff; in particular I want to know if key members of staff leave (not necessarily executives); or if there is unusually high turnover. Tools like LinkedIn and Twitter have made this a lot easier but it would be great if it could be automated.
Plus it also can't evaluate its management and internal business decisions such as M/A. And with the large cap these hedge funds are holding these days, they are quite capable of manipulating the stock prices for their gain.
What's also important is to understand the risk appetite of each individuals and have an investing plan? i.e. a value investor with a large risk appetite might be looking at citibank, make some assessment on its valuation and take a 5 yr plan on it with definite exit and cut loss prices.
An example set of signals I might use to find a bullish stock: Upward-trending SMA-20 and SMA-50, 14-period RSI > 50, MACD 12-26-9 signal line under value line. If trading actively, enter when all signals are ready, exit as soon as one breaks. (haven't actually tried that particular system, but I know for a fact that similar systems work.)
- Understand the competitive advantage of the business
- See if it has a "moat" built around it
- See its PE ratio and EPS. A company with a high EPS and a low P/E is always worth looking into.
- How much cash the company has on its balance sheet, its a good idea to go for cash rich companies
At the end of the day you are always looking at historic data and from there you are trying to predict the future...
Also the rate at which the dividend changes is important.
Not all of them will be growth, but very stable investments. Starbucks, Costco, Southwest, ..
1) Calculate cash flow (EBITD) 2) Calculate total market value of the company (equity + debt - net cash) 3) Calculate price/cash flow. 4) Look at consensus growth rates for earnings/cash flow for the next 5-10 years. 5) Multiply by 100 6) Calculate Price/cashflow divided by 5 above. 7) My buy targets are values of 6) above of 0.7 or less. Sell target is above 1.0.