How can we prove this is in-fact what Apple said? Where is the documentation? I guess I am just cynical, after seeing what people will do for clicks/views/attention.
>How can we prove this is in-fact what Apple said? Where is the documentation? I
If video counts (hidden camera) there is such a video on the same youtube channel.
These videos -specifically the ones calling Apple out for water damage- are some sort of weird internet phenomenon.
Apple's stated and written policy is "we replace everything if we detect water damage, no negotiation". Thats the real story, and thats what we should debate. There is nothing mysterious about this, it's just a business decision that sometimes makes getting your computer repaired at the genius bar impractical.
And that is an important point to debate, especially with the upcoming software check of all replacement parts. Will Apple allow Grossman to access that tool? Or will they be shutting him down?
Instead of having that debate, it seems like we're trying to foment some sort of outrage cycle about fraudulent repairs, when every example of these "fraudulent" repairs is just a genius bar employee repeating some variation of their policy. "If your liquid contact indicators have changed, we must replace every part that got wet"
Is Grossman himself behind this? Because I believe misrepresenting that policy, misguided as it may be, as 'fraudulent' is probably going to hurt the battle more than it helps. And even if it is helpful in the end, it is dishonest.
The debate is whether it’s OK to translate a “tripped LCI” to “water damage”.
If an accelerometer says that a car has been in a violent crash, but there is no observable external damage, is it ok to refuse to repair a broken engine that is under warranty?
The problem is that Apple simultaneously is using every means possible to prevent 3rd party repair.
Sure, if Apple wanted to declare everything that has the water sensors triggered as water damage and require a full replacement, even though their sensors get triggered by humidity, fine. As long as there are opportunities for customers to take it to an authorized Apple repairer or a 3rd party repairer to consider alternatives.
However, authorized apple repairers have to follow the same policy, and Apple is doing everything within its power to prevent unauthorized reparers from accessing schematics and parts, including using customs and copyright laws to prosecute them.
The liquid contact indicators change in high humidity as well, which I suspect is pretty often the case when they claim liquid damage.
Their repair policy is more or less "let's just rip everything out and let the customer pay" which is not only not very environmental, it is also a shot policy for such an expensive product.
If they told her "the reason it won't boot is liquid damage" it is pretty much fradulent. If they told her "your CPU is popped, which could be caused by water damage" it is OK.
However, since those indicators are the only thing they check and the people at the stores are on average about as technical as my mom, you will probably never get anything else then apple textbook information.
I thought the issue would have something to do with the warranty. Like apple might have a policy that says we cover manufacturing problems within some time period, but we don't cover water damage. In that case a correct determination of whether something is water damage or not is critical.
Where exactly is the water damage? Iirc, thoes detectors turn red when they get wet, but in that video every single one I can spot on the main board is not red. Do they use different ones nowadays?
There is some point in the claim, but still it feels bs.
You can popcorn a chip during reflow, some components are extremely moisture sensitive so they must be soldered the sane day they were removed from package, but you can't get popcorn from mechanical repair or a few touch ups with a soldering iron.
So, a screwup on Apple's contract manufacturer side is much more likely.
> you can't get popcorn from mechanical repair or a few touch ups with a soldering iron.
Yes you can, I've done it. Moisture sensitivity is about heat (and the resulting steam expansion). It doesn't matter whether its from the factory's re-flow oven or your hot air rework station.
Yes, but certainly not every repair requires replacement of a bga part. The most common are screen, buttons, usb connector, aside from the port, all other are purely mechanical.
Apple doesn't really use through hole parts - the connectors are SMT. I can't see any high volume repair shop using a soldering iron on SMT parts when hot air is so much easier and faster. A hobbyist might, but only because they don't have the hot air rework tools.
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 75.2 ms ] threadApple's stated and written policy is "we replace everything if we detect water damage, no negotiation". Thats the real story, and thats what we should debate. There is nothing mysterious about this, it's just a business decision that sometimes makes getting your computer repaired at the genius bar impractical.
And that is an important point to debate, especially with the upcoming software check of all replacement parts. Will Apple allow Grossman to access that tool? Or will they be shutting him down?
Instead of having that debate, it seems like we're trying to foment some sort of outrage cycle about fraudulent repairs, when every example of these "fraudulent" repairs is just a genius bar employee repeating some variation of their policy. "If your liquid contact indicators have changed, we must replace every part that got wet"
Is Grossman himself behind this? Because I believe misrepresenting that policy, misguided as it may be, as 'fraudulent' is probably going to hurt the battle more than it helps. And even if it is helpful in the end, it is dishonest.
If an accelerometer says that a car has been in a violent crash, but there is no observable external damage, is it ok to refuse to repair a broken engine that is under warranty?
Sure, if Apple wanted to declare everything that has the water sensors triggered as water damage and require a full replacement, even though their sensors get triggered by humidity, fine. As long as there are opportunities for customers to take it to an authorized Apple repairer or a 3rd party repairer to consider alternatives.
However, authorized apple repairers have to follow the same policy, and Apple is doing everything within its power to prevent unauthorized reparers from accessing schematics and parts, including using customs and copyright laws to prosecute them.
Their repair policy is more or less "let's just rip everything out and let the customer pay" which is not only not very environmental, it is also a shot policy for such an expensive product.
If they told her "the reason it won't boot is liquid damage" it is pretty much fradulent. If they told her "your CPU is popped, which could be caused by water damage" it is OK.
However, since those indicators are the only thing they check and the people at the stores are on average about as technical as my mom, you will probably never get anything else then apple textbook information.
You can popcorn a chip during reflow, some components are extremely moisture sensitive so they must be soldered the sane day they were removed from package, but you can't get popcorn from mechanical repair or a few touch ups with a soldering iron.
So, a screwup on Apple's contract manufacturer side is much more likely.
Yes you can, I've done it. Moisture sensitivity is about heat (and the resulting steam expansion). It doesn't matter whether its from the factory's re-flow oven or your hot air rework station.
Almost all surface mount is designed for hot air. You can touch up an MLCC with an iron but you are very likely to crack it with uneven heat.