> When the train has gone and a hotel is too expensive pavements and benches are the only option.
of course not. In japan you have tons of options to spend a night in town for a few bucks. Go in a Karaoke at night, or an internet cafe (even some are "boxed" so that you have decent privacy to doze off)... it's far from being difficult. That is also why internet cafes have showers available...
> . But in the deferential, work-hard/play-hard, corporate culture of Japan, getting drunk and ending up stranded without a bed seems to happen all the time.
No. It's just statistics. When you are in a city with millions of people transiting, you are bound to see a lot more of people who are dead drunk on your journey because a lot more people pass by everyday.
The photographer has no clue about why this is happening. These folks who fall asleep anywhere don't think about "getting to a hotel", they are planning to go back home but are so drunk that they fall on the ground at some point. Making it into any other kind of societal critique is just stupid.
Your theory should apply to any huge city where drinking is not taboo.
I've visited a few huge cities in North and South America dozens of times over my lifetime. I do not remember ever seeing people in non-ragged suits sleeping rough. Is anyone else's experience different?
If this is specific to Japan, that's worth pointing out, even if the explanation is speculative and may well be wrong.
Some background: the chance of getting pick-pocketed or molested is much smaller than in other cities of a comparable size worldwide, and the Japanese practice a form of privacy where such embarrassing scenes are visible but not seen.
Those guys will wake up in the morning, purchase a ready-made set of clean shirt, deodorant, and tie in a shop, and go back to the office.
Wow. Why is that not available in my american city? Spill something on my shirt (yes, I am a cliched computer programmer), and go buy an easy replacement? I want that.
- social drinking after work is "the norm" in Japan. Not every day, but several times a week is not uncommon. In large companies it is excepted that you would join such events, since it's pretty much a way to talk about work (and other things) in an informal context.
- alcohol is produced locally and there a very large industry pushing for consumption (and it is advertised everywhere).
- like in many Asian populations, there is a deficiency of the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme among Japanese, so a majority of people can't break down alcohol very efficiently and could get drink after just 2 beers. I have seen that happening over and over again - it's just genetics at play.
> Electrophoretic and quantitative studies reveal that 85% of Japanese carry an atypical liver alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH). The frequency of ADH polymorphism is identical with the reported frequency of alcohol sensitivity in the Japanese population. This identity in population frequencies points to a causative relationship between the two phenomena and suggests that alcohol sensitivity might be due to the increased acetaldehyde formation in individuals carrying the atypical ADH gene.
Drinking with ethnic Japanese as a white or black person really does make you feel as if your tolerance for alcohol is doubled; in reality you just drink less and in smaller portions. A common way of drinking together in Japan is ordering a large pitcher of beer and sharing it with small glasses.
Culturally drinking still is expected behaviour in Japan. When you can't drink for a while because of medication or whatever reason, you will find yourself explaining and excusing yourself all the time; in part because of the Japanese cultural habit of filling eachother's glasses instead of your own — preferably in order of seniority.
Oh and let's not forget the availability of 飲み放題 (drink as much as you want) plans in many restaurants at night. It's cheaper than usually ordering 3 drinks and leads to a higher consumption of alcohol at the end of the day...
Well homeless people do die in parisian streets in the cold winter days but beyond that I really doubt that you'd be very likely to get killed sleeping on a bench in France (or frankly in most civilized places in the world, why would people randomly kill people in the street?). You'd probably end up with a cold though, parisian nights are seldom hot enough to comfortably sleep without any protection. Regardless I wouldn't exactly advise doing it, theft is definitely possible.
I agree that with OP that the large number of people in Japan may be part of the explanation. But I think there are a few Japanese specific explanations at well. For instance,
- In Japan, sleeping in public is more common (0)
- The workplace is more formal, meaning more men in suits (1)
- Drinking after work is very common in Japan (2)
This means that sleeping outside is less taboo for salarymen, that they are more likely to wear a suit to work and they are more likely to head to the bar straight after work while still in their suit. In other places, I image people might change before heading to the bar or wear something different to work in the first place or might have more inhibition about sleeping in public.
Both Korea and Japan are very high on the "drinking habits" ratio, and that shows in the rate of stomach cancers: both countries have the highest rate of such cancers in the world (as well as digestive tract cancer I think). Pharma companies usually rush to get their new cancer drugs approved in Japan because the market is so huge.
Yeah, I honestly think Japan is the only country in the world where you could sleep on the street in a suit and wake up with all your possessions in tact.
Options or not, salarymen sleeping on the street does seem to be a thing in Tokyo. This is far from the first article I’ve seen about it.
As for an explanation of the behavior, I don’t think that was the point. This photographer is less interested in “the answer”, but is presenting “the question” in a new way. If you found it provocative then it worked.
You seem to be very passionate that the article is somehow misguided. However I, and a lot of others on this site have lived and visited large metropolitan cities all over the world. I can clearly remember seeing passed out men in suits in Tokyo and no where else in the world (anecdote). There are passed out people in other cities, but not businessmen in suits. The article clearly states that the photographers criteria was that the person was sleeping in a suit in a odd configuration. The article is interesting and accurate.
I don't quite understand your comment, Osaka is in Japan so ekianjo wasn't really dismissing the claim of the parent. Furthermore they provide interesting context as to why this might be more prevalent in Japan in other comments in this submission. I don't really see them being "very passionate that the article is somehow misguided", just adding some much needed context for people like me who have never set foot in the land of the rising sun.
A lot of salaryman positions are barely paying above combini rates. Renting a karaoke room in the areas these people work isn't an option when you consider how often they're out "entertaining". Internet/manga cafes are a cheaper option but from what I've heard they tend to get quite full.
> When you are in a city with millions of people transiting, you are bound to see a lot more of people who are dead drunk on your journey because a lot more people pass by everyday.
Dead drunk passed out on the ground? Hobos maybe, not dudes in suits. You rarely see this phenomenon in China or South Korea.
> Dead drunk passed out on the ground? Hobos maybe, not dudes in suits. You rarely see this phenomenon in China or South Korea.
I'm pretty sure the difference in China is caused by communism of the past actively punishing homelessness. It was the same in Europe and the effect still remains: People hate and fear the homeless and would never consider sleeping on the street.
Not sure about Korea but in Japan you can do this every day with a wallet packed with cash, new iPhone and an expensive watch and you will wake up every time with all of them still there.
People do this because they know if they get that drunk and end up hell knows where, they are still completely safe and will be fine next morning. I am not sure there is another country where you can do this and not get robbed.
There are plenty of spaces to sleep in Tokyo if you are still semi conscious after a party. These guys were far beyond that.
That's one thing I thought was a little disappointing when I was in Tokyo. The trains stop at midnight on the weekends, when I would miss it I'd have to stay out till they started up again.
In Germany, at least in bigger cities, they have on weekends and holidays that public transit goes all night.
I think the mentality is: if you can afford to party, then you can also afford to arrange your own transport (eg. taxi) home.
Public transport running at night time will be inevidently be subsidized by either day-time riders or tax payers, due to the much lower density of riders.
Then, why encourage people to stay out late...
In northern Europe you often hear the safety argument for affordable night-time public transport - “without that people may catch a unlicensed cab or try to walk home and get robbed, or worse”. But in Tokyo you the risk of something happening to you even if you pass out on the sidewalk is very very low.
Just commenting to point out the use of "legless" to mean extremely drunk. I found this in an online dictionary, but it's new to me. Maybe it's a regional thing.
Brit here. Off the top of my head: 'bladdered', 'blotto', 'hammered', 'pie-eyed', 'pissed as a newt', 'ratted', 'sloshed', 'squiffy', 'sozzled', 'trollied', 'wasted', 'wellied'
These typically result from a night 'on the lash' or 'on the piss',
It's British slang. That said, I'm British and have been to Japan and seen the drunken salarymen with my own eyes, and even I was confused at this title.
I am all for privacy, but public is public. Are you suggesting women somehow deserve more dignity than men? Or just that our public perception is skewed?
I find your post confusing. While an appeal to privacy for the homeless makes sense, these men have (hypothetically) a choice to go home, or elsewhere, even if inconvient. I realize the article is hinting that the choice is not as voluntary as they would perfer, but that is a very different set of value judgements.
The Guardian gleefully posts anything poking fun or criticism at men but doing the same to women is totally off limits. OP is totally right in that sense.
Even above the fold of their homepage they usually have one or two pieces about social justice. Then there's a steady stream of columnists that publish a daily stream of outrage pieces.
It's almost not a newspaper anymore but more of an activist-paper.
I think they are suggesting that the invasion of privacy going on here would be more obvious to us if the images were of women.
And your implication that these men don’t deserve for us to respect their dignity is absurd. Making choices you don’t agree with doesn’t invalidate their humanity.
Don't know how the law works in Japan, but public streets are well...public spaces. In most places you need to have a reasonable expectation of privacy before being able to use this defense.
Also this is an effective way to name and shame people against acting in such a way in public if you wish to do so. Some would argue that if you wish to avoid such a situation you should hold your drink better. Though that could just be passing the blame on the victim.
Note that this is not my personal opinion on the matter.
The famous capsule hotels are made specifically for people who missed their last train home. Tiny spaces but comfy, cheap and clean. You even get a pair of PJs, toothbrush and soap. It's a great system.
The photographer and / or Guardian author can't seem to make the distinction between workers who got so smashed they pass out on the street, and workers who just missed their train. The latter certainly aren't going to collapse on the side walk in a "fashion-magazine look"
Right. They definitely didn't understand that these passed out people were drunk. They probably just got lucky including "Legless" in the title. From Collins dictionary "If you say that someone is legless, you mean that they are extremely drunk." And only in a couple places do they even mention how much these businessmen drink and how drunk they must be.
> When the train has gone and a hotel is too expensive, pavements and benches are the only option. Paweł Jaszczuk on how he captured a new phenomenon
This is not a new phenomenon, and these are not the only options. I figure as a general rule, if you have the vast access to cultural resources, or Google, that the Guardian's columnists surely do, it is shameful to fail to pass muster in the subtitle.
Of course leave it to an unironic socialist (Jaszczuk) and somebody taken in by him (Bowcock) to be too lazy to Google something before blaming it on "capitalism" and condemning it as unsightly; all atop a high horse.
* Japan is pretty safe. While it's not a good idea to sleep rough, you won't end up dead.
* The climate is rather mild. Unless it's mid-winter or a during a typhoon, the weather won't kill you either.
* The culture of drinking after work.
* Lower alcohol tolerance, so it's easier to accidentally drink too much.
* That the Tokyo metro doesn't run at night, and many people live far from work.
Perhaps more interesting:
* A lot of people in Japan wear a business suit daily, but make very little money. Most people wear a suite to work unless it requires a uniform. Even then they might go to work in a suit and change.
* In general Japanese society is not class-aware. There are big economic differences, but you cannot immediately tell what somebody’s social class is.
* There isn't much of an underclass to provide cheap hotels and taxis.
49 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 125 ms ] threadof course not. In japan you have tons of options to spend a night in town for a few bucks. Go in a Karaoke at night, or an internet cafe (even some are "boxed" so that you have decent privacy to doze off)... it's far from being difficult. That is also why internet cafes have showers available...
> . But in the deferential, work-hard/play-hard, corporate culture of Japan, getting drunk and ending up stranded without a bed seems to happen all the time.
No. It's just statistics. When you are in a city with millions of people transiting, you are bound to see a lot more of people who are dead drunk on your journey because a lot more people pass by everyday.
The photographer has no clue about why this is happening. These folks who fall asleep anywhere don't think about "getting to a hotel", they are planning to go back home but are so drunk that they fall on the ground at some point. Making it into any other kind of societal critique is just stupid.
I've visited a few huge cities in North and South America dozens of times over my lifetime. I do not remember ever seeing people in non-ragged suits sleeping rough. Is anyone else's experience different?
If this is specific to Japan, that's worth pointing out, even if the explanation is speculative and may well be wrong.
Any other theories?
Those guys will wake up in the morning, purchase a ready-made set of clean shirt, deodorant, and tie in a shop, and go back to the office.
There are several additional factors:
- social drinking after work is "the norm" in Japan. Not every day, but several times a week is not uncommon. In large companies it is excepted that you would join such events, since it's pretty much a way to talk about work (and other things) in an informal context.
- alcohol is produced locally and there a very large industry pushing for consumption (and it is advertised everywhere).
- like in many Asian populations, there is a deficiency of the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme among Japanese, so a majority of people can't break down alcohol very efficiently and could get drink after just 2 beers. I have seen that happening over and over again - it's just genetics at play.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1762903/
> Electrophoretic and quantitative studies reveal that 85% of Japanese carry an atypical liver alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH). The frequency of ADH polymorphism is identical with the reported frequency of alcohol sensitivity in the Japanese population. This identity in population frequencies points to a causative relationship between the two phenomena and suggests that alcohol sensitivity might be due to the increased acetaldehyde formation in individuals carrying the atypical ADH gene.
Culturally drinking still is expected behaviour in Japan. When you can't drink for a while because of medication or whatever reason, you will find yourself explaining and excusing yourself all the time; in part because of the Japanese cultural habit of filling eachother's glasses instead of your own — preferably in order of seniority.
Try that in Paris and you’ll wake up naked on the pavement.
- In Japan, sleeping in public is more common (0) - The workplace is more formal, meaning more men in suits (1) - Drinking after work is very common in Japan (2)
This means that sleeping outside is less taboo for salarymen, that they are more likely to wear a suit to work and they are more likely to head to the bar straight after work while still in their suit. In other places, I image people might change before heading to the bar or wear something different to work in the first place or might have more inhibition about sleeping in public.
(0) https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/world/what-in-the-world/j... (1) https://www.businessinsider.com/differences-between-japanese...] (2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomikai
Rate of stomach cancer around the world:
https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/81/957/419/F1.large...
Hard to think about getting robbed or being shot at.
As for an explanation of the behavior, I don’t think that was the point. This photographer is less interested in “the answer”, but is presenting “the question” in a new way. If you found it provocative then it worked.
it is not specific to Tokyo at all. Go to the center of Osaka, you will find drunk salarymen every day of the week.
Interesting, how long has this been the case? Is hoping for promotion realistic?
Dead drunk passed out on the ground? Hobos maybe, not dudes in suits. You rarely see this phenomenon in China or South Korea.
I'm pretty sure the difference in China is caused by communism of the past actively punishing homelessness. It was the same in Europe and the effect still remains: People hate and fear the homeless and would never consider sleeping on the street.
People do this because they know if they get that drunk and end up hell knows where, they are still completely safe and will be fine next morning. I am not sure there is another country where you can do this and not get robbed.
There are plenty of spaces to sleep in Tokyo if you are still semi conscious after a party. These guys were far beyond that.
In Germany, at least in bigger cities, they have on weekends and holidays that public transit goes all night.
Then, why encourage people to stay out late...
In northern Europe you often hear the safety argument for affordable night-time public transport - “without that people may catch a unlicensed cab or try to walk home and get robbed, or worse”. But in Tokyo you the risk of something happening to you even if you pass out on the sidewalk is very very low.
Isn't Jaszczuk himself rather guilty of capitalist exploitation? That is, the exploitation of passed-out capitalists?
Brit here. Off the top of my head: 'bladdered', 'blotto', 'hammered', 'pie-eyed', 'pissed as a newt', 'ratted', 'sloshed', 'squiffy', 'sozzled', 'trollied', 'wasted', 'wellied'
These typically result from a night 'on the lash' or 'on the piss',
Yes, they have passed out in public. But I still think people have some right to privacy.
I find your post confusing. While an appeal to privacy for the homeless makes sense, these men have (hypothetically) a choice to go home, or elsewhere, even if inconvient. I realize the article is hinting that the choice is not as voluntary as they would perfer, but that is a very different set of value judgements.
Even above the fold of their homepage they usually have one or two pieces about social justice. Then there's a steady stream of columnists that publish a daily stream of outrage pieces.
It's almost not a newspaper anymore but more of an activist-paper.
And your implication that these men don’t deserve for us to respect their dignity is absurd. Making choices you don’t agree with doesn’t invalidate their humanity.
Also this is an effective way to name and shame people against acting in such a way in public if you wish to do so. Some would argue that if you wish to avoid such a situation you should hold your drink better. Though that could just be passing the blame on the victim.
Note that this is not my personal opinion on the matter.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2017/01/22/how-tos/re...
The photographer and / or Guardian author can't seem to make the distinction between workers who got so smashed they pass out on the street, and workers who just missed their train. The latter certainly aren't going to collapse on the side walk in a "fashion-magazine look"
This is not a new phenomenon, and these are not the only options. I figure as a general rule, if you have the vast access to cultural resources, or Google, that the Guardian's columnists surely do, it is shameful to fail to pass muster in the subtitle.
Of course leave it to an unironic socialist (Jaszczuk) and somebody taken in by him (Bowcock) to be too lazy to Google something before blaming it on "capitalism" and condemning it as unsightly; all atop a high horse.
* Japan is pretty safe. While it's not a good idea to sleep rough, you won't end up dead.
* The climate is rather mild. Unless it's mid-winter or a during a typhoon, the weather won't kill you either. * The culture of drinking after work.
* Lower alcohol tolerance, so it's easier to accidentally drink too much.
* That the Tokyo metro doesn't run at night, and many people live far from work.
Perhaps more interesting:
* A lot of people in Japan wear a business suit daily, but make very little money. Most people wear a suite to work unless it requires a uniform. Even then they might go to work in a suit and change.
* In general Japanese society is not class-aware. There are big economic differences, but you cannot immediately tell what somebody’s social class is.
* There isn't much of an underclass to provide cheap hotels and taxis.