Ask HN: I have constantly fallen prey to office politics. Need Advice
I was hired mainly due to my experience with high quality / scalable code. Soon, a few key employees begun downplaying this ability of mine – for instance, they loved to rewrite the components originally written by myself whenever they could. I would never criticize their work as a way to fight back. The "no bosses, no roles policy" also made things harder for me, since I didn't really feel like I could trust anyone.
Eventually, I left and took a top management position (reporting to one of the company's VPs) at a more established corporation. I gave my best at this new job, building a new development team from scratch and delivered solutions with real business impact throughout the company. My work was recognized, and I became known in the whole company. It felt truly amazing. However, there was one executive that made it clear, from the very beginning, that he didn't like me. Things went south recently after a reorg, when he began owning an area I worked closely with and loved the work we did. This executive (who happens to be the CEO’s favorite) begun searching for motives to belittle our work. Things have now gotten to a point where even my boss is refraining from defending us.
I had to control myself not to quit this job today (and let go of my bonus). It would be fairly easy for me to find another similar position. However, I wonder if I am lacking some sort of skill. I do notice that I have a hard time saying no and that I generally like pleasing people. I don't want this to happen to me again, so any advice (books, therapy, "you shouldn't be a manager") is deeply appreciated.
26 comments
[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 69.7 ms ] threadHow 'directly' was it made it clear?
How is your day to day contact with him?
It is also possible that misunderstandings at the start between you two can spiral out of control (even into hate).
Edit: formatting and spelling
- What have you done so far?
- I am building the team, have already hired X people and they will begin next month. I have also mapped what all other areas are doing and I am planning our deliverables.
- So, essentially, you have done nothing, right?
- Well, there wasn't really much I could do other than that without a team. Besides that, I had to invest some time into planning and showing the executives the structures and resources I will need.
- I got it, you haven't done anything. Listen, I am really close to the the company's CEO and we spoke about you yesterday. I didn't say anything bad about you this time. Besides that, I have a really good relationship with executives X, Y and Z and advisors A, B and C ... [he kept on bragging about himself]
The conversation above really sounded to me that he was threatening me. I spoke with some people in the company I already felt like I could trust about it and no one really understood why he did it.
I ended up thanking him for the feedback and moved on.
EDIT: Added further details that were previously included as a separate comment
In those situations you have two options -- find someone he is close to who's more positive about you that you can leverage into brokering a truce, or try to use him for information. (You can straight up ask braggarts what they would do in your place, which usually makes it obvious why they aren't in your place already, in addition to giving you future bones to throw him to keep the hostility in check)
> I invited him for a conversation
Why was this contact made? What's his connection to your team, ie. how important is his input to your team?
> I spoke with some people in the company I already felt like I could trust
Possible scenario: Chances are that these coworkers are also close to 'that' manager, and talked about it to other coworkers, which eventually resulting into 'that' manager heard that you talked about him. -> Source of hate?
I, myself, would do one of the following options
1. Make your sprint/monthly goals clear to the CEO and at the end deliver
2. Start looking for other opportunities. Since you were well liked in your previous positions, it may be easier to get references.
Hidden option: Look really hard at yourself. Are there unconscious behaviours of you that may cause dislike? Try to apologize to 'that' manager for tiny and unnoteworthy mistakes, he just sounds like a ... who needs more love.
-Old man w/ a beard
You write that you got a "top management position" - at how many years out of university? I am guessing less than 10 based on your summary. That also rings some alarm bells.
Granted there always will be people who are difficult to get along with. A situation that unfortunately goes with the territory in any corporate environment. There are many articles that suggest that many people in management positions are sociopaths.
In any confrontation there are two parties involved. You might need professional help, i.e. a therapist or career coach, to identify how you may be able to alter your behaviours to attain better outcomes for yourself and, ideally, for others.
I started my own business because I felt like the work at the big tech company wasn't challenging enough. I could have gotten my boss to make it more challenging, but starting my own business was a conscious decision, since I would have the opportunity to learn new skills and work with different technologies.
I was 9 years out of university when I got the top management position.
Fun fact: the startup I left wants to hire me back.
Sure, some people are just jerks, but not usually consistently. So when someone doesn't like you, defuse the situation and ask what would help instead. You win listening points and also improve at whatever you were maybe messing up. And with people who are just being mean, you make them realise it.
Not saying you shouldn't try to build relationships but I'm not much for hand-holding just so people won't hate you for no reason.
It's ok, you don't have to be friends with everybody.
"Soon, a few key employees begun downplaying this ability of mine"
"begun searching for motives to belittle our work. Things have now gotten to a point where even my boss is refraining from defending us."
What IF... Your university have a high "pedigree" but the education and your skills are really not great?
It may surprise you.. But what if you are "average"? Or Worse.. You are smart but did not work/study hard?
Now you have 2 options:
1. Be angry and defend yourself and your actions as you are doing and use "top notch" university as a shield.
2. Consider what I am saying and search for "real" feedback.
#2 is very hard because people are so afraid to offend or loose their time discussing with someone that does not want to listen that they avoid giving feedback.
My strategy at similar situation was sit with my "enemies" and say:
"Ok, I can sense we are not getting along and may work is not to your standards. Can you really really give me feedback and tell me what I can get better?"
Now be aware.. One of my "worst" enemy rant for 40 min. talking about how I do X, Y ... etc. Mostly were his personal agenda but in the middle of that I grasp two things. And that really help me.
What I want to mean is: When people complain our become your enemy is not about YOU but it is about HOW they PERCEIVE YOU. They don't know you are a nice guy that teaches for free in a poor kids school or that your a nice neighbour that helps your senior.
They only "know" perceive you for small hours and with their glasses.
So if you adjust two or three things on your "representation" you can make leaps in positivity.
My Enemy perceived that I was not hard working despite I was the most hard worker. So Every Friday I went to his office and talked about what I did on week and my plan for the next.
In two months I was the "best employee" working the same load. Surely I did not work more but his "perception" was that I did...
You know... Humans...
PS. I really want to help you in a positive way
That being said, I don’t think this is about me being “average” or not. I don’ even think it is possible to measure how “good” people are in a global scale. People with different skillsets are good for different positions.
My main question is whether or not I am lacking a specific skill, what that skill is and how to acquire it. Or even if I should give up on managing people and going back to being an IC.
From what I understood based on your comment, sounds like you believe I should improve my communication skills. Is this the case? Do you think just communicating more with the people I am having problems with is enough?
Wrong move buddy - this is 100% the cause of all the issues you're facing. People smell that, they kind of dislike you. BAD people smell that, they exploit your weakness to the max. There is no upside.
Work on fixing this immediately.
I always try to be nice at the start, but if it goes south I just try to avoid that person. It has worked for me but YMMV.
You do NOT have to be nice to people who are mean to you.
Hopefully this is one of those times I find a comment horrifying/depressing but they didn't really mean what I thought they meant.
In the 2nd position, do you know why the executive didn't like you? If you don't know, then that's the problem. Maybe you are too proud, perhaps you are too loud, perhaps you smile a lot, perhaps you don't smile a lot. It doesn't matter the reason, it could be valid or not. You need to discover why this executive doesn't like you.
If you figure out why, you can try to at least control it. Perhaps he doesn't like you, because your team was crushing it, releasing amazing stuff. Perhaps he wants credit. Sometimes giving people credit even when undeserved to get them off your back is worth it. You can ask him a question or two. Release your project and say you couldn't have done it with the amazing advice.
It would be nice not to have to play politics, but in most organizations, a lot of people are motivated by money and power. As you climb up it becomes a game of throne like environment. Ignorance to the happenings will frustrate you and be the end of you. You can either play or be destroyed. BTW, grab a book on "Nonviolent communication" best of luck.
On your second question, I have no idea why this executive doesn't like me. I wrote a comment on another thread on my first negative interaction with him and someone suggested that my presence somehow messes up with plans he originally had. However, I can't really think of anything.
Once you understand him, you can make a gameplan. Since you said the exec is close with the CEO, he's probably a good friend to have, and patching things up with him can really improve how you look to the CEO.
Business is about people, and technical accomplishment only goes so far. Figure out how to make the right people happy and you'll go far.