Ask HN: Paid app to free and Patreon?
I’d also be willing to sell sponsorships to companies, if any were interested (though I have no idea if any would be). Everybody hates ads but done well I’ve seen them work, when they’re not annoying.
Another option is making the app free, and then using an IAP to enable advanced features. Honestly, the part I hate most about that is the complexity I’d have to add to the software. I’d rather just give everybody all the features, and let people who want to financially support me do that. I don’t know how the economics would compare, though.
What other considerations should I have, for this type of change? What am I forgetting? What other alternatives should I consider, to try to monetize an app so I can keep working on it? Has anyone done this, and how did it work out for you?
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[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 141 ms ] threadWhat I'd be most curious about is why were people discovering your app before, why did that change?
Once you have the answer to that it will be easier to define possible paths forward.
Patreon + blog is a totally different product which will in turn attract (or not) a different market.
Another option for monetisation you didn't mention is a subscription plan, which is what many apps do today (Just a few open right now on my computer - Todoist, Notion, Slack, Sketch).
Patreon takes a huge chunk of money, so might not be ideal for this.
I don't think 5% is unreasonable for what they offer. It seems fitting.
The only reason ads make a little money on mobile is because of the lack of adblocker penetration + low tech-savviness + compulsive mobile games. When was the last time you even used a desktop app with ads?
Donations aren't a source of income. Though I encourage you to try a tip jar like Patreon just to see how vanishingly impossible it is.
Sounds like you're still deciding if you even are trying to make money. But make no mistake: you won't luck into money by writing cool blog posts and building free features that people ask for.
Building a revenue channel into your application with IAP sounds like the only thing that has a shot and the only thing that might align with your goals.
While I agree wholeheartedly with what you said, I still wonder about if Patreon might be a reasonable way to charge for services. There are at least a few people making a living off of Patreon. Of course, I've not really heard of anyone scaling it beyond that. It's possible to make a non-trivial amount of money, though.
What I really wonder is whether or not you could somehow look at Patreon as a normal payment processor for a recurring service. Possibly it's not appropriate for a non-service related piece of software (why am I paying monthly?). But if you had a service attached, I'm not really sure it's such a bad idea. I seem to remember they take 5%, which is not that bad as a payment processor with the benefits they provide. In fact, that's essentially what Youtube people are doing: sign up to my Patreon and I will make recurring videos.
But, the main point is that "I might write blog posts and you get to vote on new features" is not a business plan. Why do I want to spend a monthly fee? Writing new features might be a business plan (For example, Tarn Adams makes between $7-8K a month on Patreon for his work on Dwarf Fortress). However, you need to have an audience that wants new features and is willing to pay for them.
Are there examples of individuals using IAP as a reliable revenue channel? It sounds reasonable but while I've heard few reports of people using Patreon/donations/sponsorships, I've heard no reports of anyone successfully using IAPs as their primary revenue stream.
I ask people to support me by becoming my patron on Patreon as Menu item. Right now it brings me 11$/month (https://www.patreon.com/hovancik) and it goes up and down. I could do better by engaging more with people, I guess (in past some people donated when I fixed their issue very quickly).
Over time, some people also donated on paypal (5-15$ a time).
I am thinking to add "premium" features: users can access them after auth via patreon or github (if they contributed).
Premium features will be just some sugar, nothing that normal user could not do.
I also have newsletter where I try to bring some app related stuff that people might enjoy.
some tips:
- watch for mentions of your app on social media and interact
- ask for support, if people like your app they will help
- being open-source also helps
[0] https://github.com/engagingspaces/awesome-humane-tech
If your app is adding value I would keep charging real money for it. Maybe check out a software subscription model for support and updates.
I like what Jetbrains is doing for their IDE's where you pay a fee for a specific version and 1 year support & updates. After that 1 year you can continue using the same version, or pay again to get another year of updates and support.
Some more about his business model: https://blog.patreon.com/vue-js-creator-evan-you
- Be able to develop in the open. Every problem I have (like for StackOverflow) requires me to fully extract an MCVE -- and half the time, extracting a feature causes the problem to go away, for no apparent reason. It would be a big help to be able to just say "with open-source project X, I tried doing Y, and it fails with Z".
- Be able to use many of the online tools that are free for open source.
- Let other people help, if they want (including porting to other OSs, which I will probably never have time to do well).
- Let people use pieces of it in their own projects (like as libraries).
- Longevity. Closed-source apps basically all die, eventually. It would be great to be able to give users confidence that it won't just disappear if I get hit by a bus tomorrow.
I agree that the "open-source it, and keep a paid version in the app store" sounds very appealing, but my worry is that it only takes one developer to set up a build environment and compile it, to remove all of my revenue stream.
What is your target audience? I would spend some time writing blog posts on how your app can help them. Maybe give away some copies/keys on podcasts that your target audience listen to.
If that doesn't spark sales maybe go free with IAP. I would do this as a last resort. I think you'd do better being paid. Maybe introduce a free trial period if you don't already.
I don't think ads or patreon will make any significant revenue.
0: https://www.patreon.com/pindigo
It seems as if Donations don't work for most Open Source projects. Even when they do, it's often almost a B2B like relationship.
Lots of people are saying something to this effect, like it's a bad thing, but why? I'd be perfectly happy for businesses to pay me. Maybe even happier, because they have lots of money, and are willing to spend it.
People who REALLY need features are businesses or projects who have money and usually a deadline.
At one point I was making maybe 1k/month from sales and 3k in feature inplementations. (Helps that I also freelance so not a big jump in terms of my day to day flow) Not crazy, but I was also freelancing at the same time.
The real time drag is supporting the free users. The people paying for features and using the plugin commercially were a lot more competent.
TLDR: build free reputation & word of mouth, then go B2B. Obviously depends on the target audience
Agreed, I was ambiguous on this point. It would be nice to make a living from it (of course!), but I've got other apps in my brain that need building, and other types of work that I do, so it's not necessary. I don't have all my eggs in this basket.
Let's say: in order to be more than a hobby, a program has to be financially self-sustaining. For some software, that can mean enough to spend 10 hours a week on it, and for other software, it might mean enough to hire a team of 50 people to work on it full-time. Below about 10 hours/week, though, and it starts to lose the ability to be called self-sustaining. There's just not enough hours to take on significant work.
> I found my only success with a unity plugin was to release it for cheap/free to build users and charge for new features at freelance rates.
This is a great and helpful data point.
If you are good at writing and teaching, maybe that is a good direction to move.
> I’d rather just give everybody all the features, and let people who want to financially support me do that. I don’t know how the economics would compare, though.
Have you thought about the sublime text model? Give people unlimited evaluation period with occasional nagging.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwRXb5dUK4cvsHbx-rGzSgw
[2] https://www.patreon.com/derekbanas
This is just one data point but seems like when people have an option of not to pay, they won't pay.
https://www.patreon.com/cgpgrey
(Edit: I should note that I'm sure that Patreon has the same sort of long tail that everything else does... unless one is doing something unique and notable and gets discovered, Patreon is likely to produce little revenue, just like other revenue sources)
Another YouTuber in the same kind of section, This Old Tony, announced he'd start a Patreon a week or so ago, and is already over 1000 Patrons[2]. He is offering no benefit other than supporting the videos he was already making.
These are just the 2 more recent ones that come to mind, but there are a lot of YouTubers making a living from Patreon without sacrificing what the 'non-paying' viewers get.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4c4BqhhJW4
[2] https://www.patreon.com/thisoldtony
Technically there is no access control other then that YouTube links are not easily guessable.
It is probably not a huge concern for these YouTubers if there are a few people who see the video early when they are not supposed to.
You're linked to say, www.chime.com/subscribe, which sets up a payment on PayPal via the API and redirects the user to authorise under the hood. You login with your PayPal account (same as entering Patreon credentials on Patreon), confirm, and you're redirected to a simple thanks page.
You can then manage your subscription via PayPal, as you can with all others, and it's one less interface, even. Instead of managing Patreon vs. non-Patreon, you're managing everything from PayPal.
Additionally, it's likely that anyone using Pateron also has a PayPal account.
Such a software is, of course, trivial to make, and could be open-sourced. Here, you keep 100% of income (- tax etc.)
I'm not a fan of Patreons recent moves but I think that a platform that enables easy and convenient ways to support art, development, and generally small projects more than deserves a small but fair piece of the pie. Maybe that platform is another company in 10 years but right now it's Patreon. This is an example of a company that would be amazing if it was nonprofit and adjusted its fees to simply pay for hosting, a well paid but manageable staff size, and a bit of comfort for if business goes south.