Ask HN: Having emotional breakdown
My grades were horrible for two years and that was like so demoralising that I lost my self confidence even nore. Being shy at college also did not help and even some good for nothing teachers gave me a hard time; I fell completely lonely, even the motivation which was from visiting HN and other sites is fading. Not even remember any single piece of achievement and appreciation in these two years and always feel like dropping out of college. I now think I am going on right path but still college and the people phobia keeps haunting me. Never have I had a clear mind; the minute I start studying I get emotionally down by remembering any fscking embarrasing situation I had. I have never consulted my problem this deeply to anyone in college. The fact that I let go couple of years that could had made me more confident in python programming is making me feel worse. Need some good advice that will not let me look back on my shitty past?
124 comments
[ 0.19 ms ] story [ 229 ms ] threadhttp://thehappinesstrap.com/
http://contextualpsychology.org/act_for_the_public
2. (I don't know if this is applicable or not but) drinking will not help.
3. More people than you can possibly imagine have been where you are. (The noisy "everything is fine" group has a large subset of liars and people suffering -- like you -- are silent. Skewed sample set).
4. It will not always be thus. The tide goes out, the tide comes in. Wait for the tide to come in. But in the meantime start talking to someone.
I think you might have a bit of anxiety. the way you describe any negative thought or memory pulling you back down reminds me a lot of myself. the good news is that there are lots of strategies for dealing with anxiety, and a shrink can help point you in the right direction. hack your brain!
I have visited a psychiatrists with my problems anyway, and it definitely helped. Also, most of my friends know about that and I never had any problems, but that's probably thanks to my choice of friends. If you pick carefully you should have no problem.
Think about it like that -- visiting a shrink might cause your some problems, if it gets known in wrong places, and hopefully you can move elsewhere when that happens -- a harsh solution, definitely painful, but usually not the end of the world.
Your current condition definitely causes problems for you right now. Also, you can't just move away from your current problems.
Fuck that shit.
You asked for help. You got excellent advice from many people here. Then you came up with excuses for not taking that advice.
Forget "social stigma". Forget the past. Forget your perceived weaknesses. Forget your excuses.
You are obviously smart and want to help yourself, otherwise you wouldn't have posted here to begin with. You need someone qualified to talk to (in person, not here). Do it and recapture your life.
Things are never as bad as they seem when you're at a low point. You will soon discover that once you take action. Do it now. Best wishes.
It takes time, but just say, I'm going to go talk to 2 new people today and then go do it. Say, "Hi, How are we doing today?" and then ask them a question about themselves. You'll fail a lot and things won't go as planned, but you'll have a few pleasant surprises too.
Btw, the success with the girls was a nice side effect. While labeled as a geek when I was in school, I have had very nice and very attractive girlfriends since I started to work on my social skills.
So GO OUT and TRY! It is the same as always: you have to do the thing you want to be more successful in!
I joined the dragon boat club because on a boat, you're going to need good teamwork or else you're going to sink. And often sports clubs will have teamwork building exercises like learning people's names. It's getting through that first step of knowing the person's name that's the hardest. Once you're at a first-name basis with someone, it's a lot easier to talk to them.
This is the time to learn. Nobody is expecting you to invent the next Google at this point in your life. You've got an entire life ahead of you. The fact that you're in an undergraduate program in your country puts you light-years ahead of your fellow citizens. You've already won a lottery that billions in your country will never have a chance to even enter.
For starters the only way to meet friends is to be outgoing, being an introvert makes this very hard, but if you really want to make friends you are going to have to deal with your issues and talk to people. Believe it or not, it gets better with time and as you grow.
On the other part, grades don't mean a thing, and you really need to stop looking at things as if it was the professors fault. If you really feel that college was lacking in some way you need to either change college or make the best of your situation and study by yourself what you think your your classes are missing. In a way is as much your fault as the professors. That being said, the past is the past and there is no point dwelling on it.
The reality of your situation is very simple actually. You want to become more extroverted to make friends? Build something where you have to interact with people. You want to become better at 'python programming'? Buy a few books and build something in python, and when you're done reread the books and build something in python (this is a recursive sentence!). You feel like college is full of people that don't care about you learning? You're right, because the only person that cares about that is yourself, and unless you're Will Hunting you really need to take responsibility for your life.
Also, go see a psychologist, or a psychiatrist if the situation is worse and will require medication.
I also recommend the book dying of embarrassment, which has many of the things a good psychiatrist will take you through. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/176-...
Argh. An introvert is not defined as somebody who cannot make friends, it's somebody who doesn't feel the need to make many friends.
If you want friends and can't make them, your problem is not introversion (which is not a problem, it is a natural personality state) - it's shyness, or something worse.
To the OP I would say this: it's never too late to turn your life around. Seek help if you can (I do think the level of anxiety you report sounds worse than the average cage of college-itis) but don't think that your past needs to determine your future. Set yourself small achievable goals, and do them. Getting things done is easier for some than others, but it is a habit that anyone healthy can learn.
You're totally right in that the OP is probably not an introvert, but I found it easier to use the term loosely for my advice. Should have known better since I am actually an introvert, but I have boatloads of friends and good social skills.
In any case, great advice. Hope the OP reads it also.
He just needs a good kick in the arse. If anyone knows who this is (hard with an anonymous account, I know), drag him out to some kind of social event and force him to meet some people. That's all the therapy he needs.
In any case I would agree with you that he just needs to get out more if it weren't for the case that 1) he's making a pity case out of his situation 2) he is not only not happy with his current situation, but seems to be entering a phase of self loathing which can easily be an entry phase into depression.
He does need professional help, which type we can't tell because we don't really know the person, but the fact that he not only acknowledges that he is unhappy with his current social situation but also speaks illy about his situation with college and professors and thinks he needs some magic pill to actually improve his life (as if we in HN were in the position to give him any advice that will change his life that easily). It's most probable that he only needs to man up and take control of his life, but maybe his problem is not only the lack of will power to do so, and he needs a therapist to help him from a positive idea of what his life is supposed to be. At the most extreme it might even be a serious problem, perhaps a hormonal imbalance or a mental problem caused because of his environment, in which case a therapist might not even be enough and might need to seek a psychiatrist and start medication.
As you said he might just need a kick in the arse, and what I recommended to him actually gets him on this path, but if that is not enough (which is just as probable as per his situation) he might really need someone to tighten the screws in his head that are loose or maybe even missing. Of course, I'm not saying he's crazy, but something isn't clicking right now and he really needs to get it fixed asap.
Seriously, though, it might be worth the OP's time to go light on classes, and look for some programming task that's fun. Find something cool. I've been really enjoying node.js, for example, because the community feels like a city full of still-under-construction buildings, with oddly dressed people smiling and lurching around spasmodically, occasionally making something amazing.
If you optimize for fun, you'll learn a lot faster than you would in most regular classes.
Find one and get busy.
2. Whenever you get some deep, positive insights, write them down in one place. For example, you may be sitting at the college canteen drinking some tea and wallowing in self-pity when suddenly a person with no legs comes over to beg for a rupee, and you suddenly see that life can be much much worse than a temporary lack of social skills! At least you have your legs. This may seem too trivial to be an "insight", but that is just your depression talking again. It can be a jolting thought that forces you to play the best game you can given the cards you were dealt out.
The age of 21 is like that. "This too shall pass", as some wise man said. All the best! :-)
Cheers
If you can buy a bike, do it, go ride, see how big and beautiful the world around you is. When you exercise, it will make you feel so much better.
Last, invite a girl to go on a bike ride with you!
Suggestions: pick up Feeling Good by David Burns. It's exceedingly practical and will help you quickly.
Start an exercise program. It does not need to be ambitious. Just start a routine of walking every day for 20+ minutes. Listen to music or a podcast or the radio -- associate something positive with it so that you're more likely to do it. Why exercise? Endorphins, sure, but also because there is clinical evidence that physical exercise on a daily basis changes the brain in a positive way and fights depression.
If it's not obvious to you: you're depressed. I'm not qualified to make that judgement, but I'd be willing to bet you are. The good news: you can fight it and win.
Fish oil! This is another thing that's been shown to have a positive effect on mood. [edit] Fish or flaxseed oil is what you want, either in 'pill' form or as a liquid.
It really helped me to find people that were passionate about the same things I was. I found user groups and not only went to them, became an active member and organizer. People come to me to talk more often than I go to them to talk now. It's great and feeling useful helps carry me through everything else in my life that seems difficult and overwhelming.
From an Indian perspective, here is some advice:
1. Talk to your family perhaps. Just talk about general stuff too: how they are doing and so on. Family includes your siblings, your cousins etc. I have wonderful sisters who make my life bright :)
2. Do you have any friends/acquaintances etc from say high school? Call them up and just ask how they are doing etc.
3. You appear to be a programmer. Go out and attend some tech talks or meetups. They are fun, you meet interesting people and they are all programmers like you so you don't feel out of place. If there are none in your city, try to move to Bangalore.
4. Take up a hobby. It will take your mind off things, will be fun and interesting and it gives you a conversation starter with non-geeks.
Losing a year or two is not a big deal. What is important that this moment completely belongs to you. It is in your control. Dont worry about the past or the people who bother you about the past. Do not worry about the future as well. You shape your own future to a large extent by your actions in this current moment. Friends are important but not the kind that they show in the movies. What is more important than friends are your well wishers. Well wishers come in all shapes and forms and some may not fit your definition of friends.
Start building something. Python is not that hard. Start with Google App Engine and python. That way you can build something quick and show it to the world. Remember this need not be perfect. Shipping something is more important than perfecting it. Start blogging your learnings. They help immensely serving as a reinforcement of concepts. Don't bother about getting friends. Participate in your local techmeets or geeknights or whatever they call it in your area. Find people with similar interests and start hacking on a project. It could be as simple as a todo list or a birthday reminder. Think of all the cool features that you could add to it. Make it and show it proudly. You will find that friends will come searching for you.
Do not try to become extroverted. You cannot do that. Instead, start writing and reading. You have already taken the first step of opening up to the forum. I congratulate you on that. Now all you have to do is to keep writing. Once you gain your confidence back, you will naturally become extroverted.
Good luck and keep hacking. You know we all are.
Seriously, you're just exactly like the average 21 year old introvert without a girlfriend. Most of us have been there, and we didn't post about it on internet forums. Geesh.
I vote against all the advice to "go see a psychotherapist". The only psychotherapy you need is to stop making excuses and get the fuck out of your room. Go meet people. Do risky stuff. Look for the bright side of life. Let the bright side of life find you.
You're only 21, for christ's sake. "Look back on my shitty past?" Dude, you don't even have a past yet. Go do stuff and enough with wallowing in your self-pity. You don't know how utterly ridiculous it sounds for a 21-year old studying python at university to be complaining that he's failed at life.
Edit: Another point, about your "shitty past". No one other than you gives a damn about you or it (especially at 21). Realise that and stop using it as some kind of lame excuse to not talk to people.
All forms of metal illness and disfunction look the same?
C'mon people, this is the kind of post where if you don't have something positive to say, it is best to move on to the next submission. Even if you believe that "tough love" is called for, I doubt it works coming from strangers.
I have doubts about your attitude and about your ability to diagnose illness.
The whole "snap out of it" attitude is horrible advice and isn't helping anyone in major depression. You have no idea about any other details and problems the person may have and why they feel as if they are not up to their potential. Seeing a therapist can be one of the best things to happen.
What is the basis for your claim that "likely this is exactly the type of advice this kid needs"?
I don't see the connection, and even if there was a clearly articulated connection, it would again be guesswork. Unnecessary again since a professional could simply ask him the right questions and diagnose rather than make the best guess given insufficient evidence to have confidence in the answer.
I'm sure you can guess what I have to say about the right therapy for him. It is not necessary to prescribe a "likely" course of action based on a diagnosis based on scant evidence. Even if your chain of reasoning follows the most likely path from evidence to prescriptive, there is no need to work at low levels of confidence.
I think I am probably right, and if I am not, I am not ashamed at all. I am not a therapist, I am not in a therapists office, I am not pretending ot be a therapist, and I doubt this kid needs a therapist.
I think you overestimate the importance of giving 'accurate' advice as if I, or who i was commenting on, were his therapist. However, we are not, you are not, and the kid is probably just needing to grow a pair, find his voice, and realize he doesn't have to do the things that other people think he should do.
Now if only elitism caused depression, so people like you would understand just how much it destroys one's life -- its not called a disease for nothing.
Seriously, its people like the above who kept me from becoming a nerd because so many nerds struck me as insensitive, self-absorbed a-holes.
Now go back to Slashdot with the rest of the elitist jerkoffs. Or better yet, I really hope you suffer some horrible tragedy so you get a clue what this guy is going through (or just go listen to Tool's hooker with a penis and remember the guy maynard's talking about is You).
To the OP:
Treat depression like any other scientific problem: There are drugs that will help -- i.e. 5-htp, st. john's wort, for supplements -- for prescription -- Tianeptine (avoid SSRIs like the plague). Moderation and research is The key when using any drugs.
As much as the above guy was a jerkoff in terms of how he said it, he's partially right -- there are 3 different ways of dealing with depression:
1: (recommended) - Do your research, find tools - whether drugs (in moderation), meditiation, exercise, etc. and work (with patience!) on working through your depression.
2: Depend on friends, family
3: Get professional help
Also -- don't worry about being too nice a guy -- i.e. it took me a long time to realize its one of those things that people say in terms of "Do as I say, not as I do" -- I mean, don't become like the guy above, but also don't let people push you around or make you feel worthless -- as in the case of the poster above being a jerk, its probably just insecurity on their part.
One more thing, also partially in reply to the above -- in my experience, 21 and the few years proceeding it were the worst of my life (in my 30s now) -- so it can and will get better, just have patience and work through it.
Its taken me like 5 years to get my confidence slowly back, but it was the most productive 5 years of my life).
Just work through it using reason and patience.
While I appreciate that there's a chance that the OP does have a serious case of depression, I feel that it's a lot more likely that he just needs to get out there and enjoy himself. In either case, there are plenty of replies here catering to that possibility, so I don't think this reply is out of place here.
The best thing my family could have done which is what my Mother did which was to tell me it was time I was paying rent and I had to get a job. Of course, once I had a job she never asked for rent as that was never her intention. And once I had a job, I realised that the thing I was doing was not my future which drove me to get on with stuff I liked. 18 months later I was in charge of the web dev graduates at the agency I worked at.
But saying it to some completely anonymous person on the Internet may be more likely to backfire than to help in the manner you intend.
There are also potential cultural differences to keep in mind as well. Brits and Americans may be more likely to respond positively to 'tough love' than Indians or others.
Advising someone lonely to "Go meet some people" is a bit like telling him to be happy. How do you do that? If he has trouble speaking to other people, a good start could be to talk to a psychologist or a priest or anyone whose job is to listen.
* Immerse yourself in programming. You have no idea how much satisfaction you can get out of it.
* Read. Read. Read. Start reading things. Read your CS books, non-fiction, etc. Read as much as you can.
* Get active in some sort of Free/Open Source Software community. Pick a project you like and start contributing. Always good to have a goal (I will fix/file/triage x bugs in x months).
* Get into IRC. ##linux-india on Freenode is a great channel full of people who hack stuff (and some other non-hackers too).
* Some people have suggested getting a girlfriend or a social life. Knowing the place you come from, that won't help. Stay away from those people. They will only make you feel worse.
* Set a goal to get into Google Summer of Code next year once you have figured out programming and working on FOSS projects.
* Study just before the exams and make sure you get out of your college as fast as possible (ie, don't drop out). If you have good knowledge of Linux systems, taking over the college labs will help you a lot. Build some sort of a hacker reputation so that people discount your bad grades.
That's pretty much what I did when I was in one of those crappy Indian colleges. Once you have gained enough confidence, things will get better for you.
If you need more help, email me - b.ghose at infinitelybeta.com
[update] And oh, don't worry about jobs; if you can hack, I have a job for you.
God no. I've never known an IRC channel that was not moderated by egotistical losers. IRC is great for coding help, not socializing. He needs real people. Not another fat, lonely kid with ban privileges.
EDIT: drop me an email if you're in/around New Delhi. There are a bunch of Python hackers in this city. Email is in my profile.
"Shitty past" pffft. Some people starve and die before they're 10. I had what is a comparatively "rough" start to life compared to most in my country, but I don't think it actually matters or should have any impact on my present happiness.
tl;dr Grow up, get out of your room, choose to be happy.
That's probably because I've never known any who have.
And little? I don't think depression is a "little problem."
Fair enough. I switched little to the colored pills.
Anyway, he asked for advice from a bunch of random people on the internet - and IMO there were a lot of good ones... exercising and stuff like that - but that takes real effort and the OP doesn't seem capable of that right now. So in that context I think my advice was as fair as the rest - certainly seems to work for the socially awkward in the rest of the world which is why it's pretty much accepted in every culture everywhere.
Edit: Wish I could get Kingfisher and Taj Mahal here...