I've always found udacity courses to be well designed. I wish the nanodegrees didn't have those fixed start times though, and I wish it was pay by course rather than pay by month. Still, very good experiences.
It used to be part by the month. I took the data science nano degree and I finished a lot of it in a month and a half or so. The course wasn't complete and I felt like I couldn't do the reinforcement learning section based on the class so I dropped it.
More like pay per term with most nanodegrees being 2 terms if you stay on pace. They used to have a monthly optio, which was nice if you worked fast. But now the only monthlyish option is the payment plan for a term loan.
My experience has been completely opposite. With two notable exceptions, Peter Norvigs and Steve Huffman courses. Anecdotally, I enrolled in one of the other courses, wrote some of the worst js in my life (had to use some horrible Google fw that makes js look like Java) got bored with the course and forgot about it. Few months latter logged back into udacity and to my great surprise, found out I received the certificate.
I have no particular insight to add, but simply wanted to say this is an absolutely wonderful story. A person with poor economic prospects took control and changed their life. Beautiful.
I tried doing a nanodegree but quit after a month. The two main reasons:
- the videos are not lectures; they're short, scripted segments. While the production is polished, I found the format irritating. I much prefer actual recorded lectures like the many wonderful (and free) ones available from MIT
- the programming assignments were not challenging. I didn't really feel like I gained anything from them.
> the programming assignments were not challenging. I didn't really feel like I gained anything from them
I was in the first cohort of the front-end nanodegree, and I also took the full-stack shortly after. I'm pretty shocked by this statement. For me, the vast majority of learning happened by implementing the topics that were discussed in the short videos. Given that the videos are very brief summaries of the topics you're meant to implement in the projects, It's pretty odd you gained nothing from doing them. Did you know the material before starting the nanodegree? If so, I'd argue the fault is on you for choosing a curriculum meant for beginners whilst being intermediate or above. Otherwise you're a very rare person for being able to learn more from watching videos and reading articles than by actually practicing what is taught.
It does look like greydius is not a beginner but an intermediate/experienced dev. I am right now doing machine learning nanodegree and I have the same feedback. Its for beginners, not experienced devs. Experienced devs can digest the same stuff less than a month, if they simply provide the text.
That said, the fault is not his. Shitty udacity never ever mentions they are for beginners. They sell it as "career changing". So blame is on them.
This seems to be a problem in general when it comes to tutorials/books/lecture material in software engineering.
A large portion of learning material (feels like >95%) caters to beginner or junior level people. Very rarely do you find books or tutorials or material meant for those beyond the junior level.
Even the "advanced" or "intermediate" videos on places like Pluralsight, Lynda, etc feel like it's barely a step above beginner. I don't have much experience with Udacity but I'm guessing it's the same?
It seems, IME, like the only way to learn the intimate/advanced knowledge is to talk to core developers or others who have a similar problem domain.
"Learning material" for actually-advanced folks, in my experience does exist and is almost without exception books or papers. I gave up on trying to find stuff on video.
Yeah I'm finding some books too, and conference talks is another decent medium but they lack depth a book or paper has.
It feels like for every C# in Depth or YDKJS there's 100s of other resources strictly for the beginner. It's just hard to sift through 100s or 1000s of resources before you find something worthwhile.
When it is videos, it's not a plethora of information on a general topic, but a very specific explanation or tutorial in a niche area, and you run into the chicken and egg problem of having to know what to look for.
I am advanced in my career but a beginner when it comes to AV. I'm lucky in that I have a job in the field as a newbie. I'm taking the Udacity SDC course starting next week.
Question is, have you finished any one of those courses from MIT? Many, including myself lack self discipline to follow through those courses from beginning to end. I believe Udacity and it's ilk provide great service. I did finish one, a paid nano-degree, and although that is not the only reason, I guess paying for it played a great role. You start with a cohort, you share experience, and grievances, and try to deliver assignments on time. That is something those MIT courseware lack.
I think the point of Udacity, or at least why I did Udacity, is to get some kind of credential to get past HR gatekeepers (which did not work). I didn't do it to learn. I already taught myself Swift and iOS, and I'm sure I could have taught myself Android too, but I wanted some kind of credential, and I can't afford to get another degree.
You know all of those videos are optional? You can just skip the intermediary assignments if they are too easy, and go right to the final project in each section, which is the only part that is graded anyways. Also, the last project is a portfolio piece of your own design, so you can make it as hard as you want as long as it meets certain criteria.
I took the 9-month Self-Driving Car Nanodegree and managed to find a job in the AV industry right before graduating.
I found the ND worth every penny because they broke down really dense topics that you’d usually need to be in a MS program at CMU or Stanford to undertake. Now I’m leading AV development at my current employer!
Like any course or degree, they can’t cover everything. That’s ok though, because you’ve learned enough to continue learning by reading current academic papers. You must be motivated though.
There’s a lot of nay-sayers on HN. I’d encourage you to ignore their excuses for not completing their ND. Usually these people don’t have enough grit or motivation to do something hard. If you really want it...you’ll work hard and persevere to get it.
I did the Android nanodegree, and have never had so much as an interview. I think people's success after Udacity is largely determined by their educational background before Udacity. For example, the article is ambiguous about whether the student finished his computer engineering degree at university or not. I have a non-STEM degree.
On the other hand, seeing comments from people who dropped out of nanodegrees makes me consider that maybe it's a little more difficult than it seems. Moreover, the job market for mobile is just bad. It's either six figure rockstar, or unemployment. I think doing one of the javascript ones might have produced better job prospects.
At this point, I'm resigned to indie development while I work a part time non-tech non-profit job to make rent. Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not.
I used to do mobile development. You need a strong portfolio to compete. I had made around 6 apps (some my ideas and some for clients) when I got my first mobile job. Consider making some novel apps without any expectation of being paid. Nothing guarantees you a job. If you’re not hearing back...there’s got to be a logical reason. Be honest with yourself and come up with a list of 25 things that will give you an edge and start doing them. Just don’t give up!
Regarding the education comment...I’m going to disagree with you there. Employers don’t care where you went to school. They care about what you’ve done in the past (doesn’t matter if it’s at work or on the side) and what you can bring to the table. I had to compete with people with PhDs for my current AV job but I got the job because of the whole package of skills that I bring rather than theoretical knowledge in a single niche topic.
This depends on the employer. Google is notorious for not only caring about your school, but your GPA. Also as someone who has looked at hundreds, if not thousands, of resumes over the years - the reality is you very quickly start to look for any sort of signal and schools are definitely something some (I would guess most) consider.
Do I think it's unfair? Sure. But recruiters simply do not have the time to look into every applicant with any sort of detail.
I’m not so sure anymore. I’ve worked at a couple FANGs and I have never looked at a candidates resume beyond their last job or two. I only look at their degree to calculate years of experience in my head. But ultimately we put faith in our interview process more than a resume. I would totally hire someone who has relevant experience than what their degrees were (or any), as long as they passed the normal interview gauntlet that everyone takes.
Engineers typically don't care so much about school, but the first filter is recruiters who do. A recruiter has <10s to read your resume and has no technical knowledge, so a good school or FANG on your resume helps you pass their screen.
years of mostly pointless assignments, lectures and pre-test cramming coupled with thousands of hard earned dollars spent on getting <10s of attention from a recruiter. Feels harsh, strange and unproductive enough to be true.
Let's say you get past recruiters and/or HR. You're sitting in a room full of potential coworkers who question how you wake up in the morning and put on your pants because they went to a four year school and have that degree. It's a club and you're not in it.
If you were a novice painter/cook/carpenter/sculptor/singer/accountant/mechanic what would you include in a portfolio? Now, the portfolio exists to demonstrate a skill you posess.
You'd look for established people and their works from your domain and copy them to study their methods, their style. Figure out and differentiate the core from the frills. Tweak, mix, combine, jam and fuse what you've learnt.
Then you'd merge your favorite styles together to create your own, novel work. Repeat enough times and you have a solid portfolio.
Unfortunately, the programming world is crippled with 'get rich quick' apps/websites/products.
Most newbie programmers believe that unless they have a novel idea, they cannot and should not build an app or a website. That attitude sucks the life and joy out of learning anything including programming.
I strongly urge you to copy, steal and be inspired by as many apps and websites as you can before going for novelty.
What you will learn in the process far outweighs any commercial success that you can hope for.
That typically works when your works are mostly visual and the position takes that into account. Most hiring managers won’t bother reading a single line of code.
"For example, the article is ambiguous about whether the student finished his computer engineering degree at university or not. I have a non-STEM degree."
According to the OP's LinkedIn profile, he started his undergrad in Computer Engineering in 2015, started doing Udacity courses in 2017, and expects to complete his degree in 2020.
I see a nanodegree or coding skills for that matter as an addendum to your existing skills. The branches to your 'T' shaped skilltree.
That said, you do have to adopt a non standard route to getting a job from a nanodegree. You can't apply like average graduates; you have to network, hustle, and build up a stronger portfolio than your graduate peers
The geography matters. I did the Self driving car nanodegree and not having a US work permit pretty much took out all my chances. I did have an interview with Voyage but I didn't clear round 2 or 3 I don't remember.
> At this point, I'm resigned to indie development while I work a part time non-tech non-profit job to make rent. Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not.
Am intrigued by your comment, as my interpretation of what you want and what you're doing seem to be at odds with each other.
My assumption is you want to get a paid developer role, whereas your side project seems to be satisfying personal curiosity (otherwise, you'd definitely already have an answer to the question of whether your Mac app would make a few bucks). The latter is immensely important in its own right, but quite likely won't solve the first problem itself (again, if it were to, you'd have a surer answer to whether it was likely to make money or not).
I flamed out of university without a degree at all, but put myself in places to get a CMO role (which I ultimately hated, but still...) at a startup because I aligned my side projects with what I wanted from my career rather than just things I wanted to build. It's a hard choice, but it's one that probably has to be made.
Also, your nanodegree looks to be unused as-is, with little link to the work you're currently doing (sure, it's an app, but Android/mobile to MacOS/desktop is about as far as you can stretch the "app" link) - how are you framing it with employers?
If you’re still looking for paid work (dev or otherwise), reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to help in any way I can, i.e. with referrals or advice. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleenmullaney
I have a SDC nanodegree too but not as lucky as you...I also have a masters in MechEng with 5+ engineering experience. Haven't had much success pivoting into the industry.
Keep trying! I’m fortunate. I worked extremely hard and passionately the whole nanodegree too. Maybe even to the point where it would seem obsessive ha.
Also is it worth doing The self driving degree if you’re unable to move to Silicon Valley? I mean is it worth trying to get into that industry if you can’t move to a tech hub?
IF all the jobs in field X are in locations a,b,c and you can't move there then yes seems like it wouldn't be smart to study field X in order to get a job unless you see a future where locations with that job are going to change to somewhere you can go.
Most R&D in this field is done in or around the automotive hubs. I.e. Detroit, Munich, Ingolstadt, Stuttgard, Wolfsburg, Tokyo, Tel Aviv etc. Silly Valley companies are getting almost all of the attention, but most of them are not doing anything that is more advanced than what the car manufacturers and big automotive electronics companies are doing. The few that are genuine tech leaders are either Waymo (good luck getting into that) or have very strong ties to a car manufacturer.
The typical path into this industry is to start at a big supplier ('tier 1' in automotive parlance) like Bosch, Continental, Valeo, Delphi etc. If you are half competent, you can get yourself poached by a car manufacturer after a couple of years. You can go the HN dream path and work for a tiny Silly Valley startup in the hopes of getting equity or getting acqui-hired down the line, but that will mean far less compensation and longer hours in exchange for a tiny chance of winning the startup lottery. Though TBH at this point the handful of winners are pretty much established and the almost 100 other startups in the AD field in the Bay Area are almost definitely not going to succeed.
Take it seriously (take notes on paper like ‘real’ school) and be sure to read the papers from the 2007 DARPA urban challenge. See my other comment for the link.
I was working a 40 hour job and doing the nanodegree in the mornings before work. I worked on assignments during the weekend. I tried to manage my time well to avoid falling behind or having to do a project at the last minutw.
My sister was also battling cancer so this made it even more difficult from a time and emotional standpoint.
I think that you’re leaving out too much of your background in this comment - the nanodegree on top of your existing EE and math degrees and years of experience as a software developer is a much better bet than doing it as a college kid or someone with no degree or professional background.
Is it just me, or is someone else seeing posts like these pop up everywhere, and all reference Udacity's nanodegrees?
I know this one is in the Udacity site itself, but I've seen similar posts in other websites. Maybe they're actively advertising it via viral blog posts?
Of the people who start a nanodegree, how many finish? Of the people who finish, how many accomplish the expected career goal? I'm asking because Udacity is starting to feel a lot like it's replicating the gym industry's business model.
I actually don't think these numbers are important for Udacity, or for people taking the courses. What is important is that people are afforded the opportunity.
It isn't Udadity's responsibility to force people through a system. Rather, they set a bar (payment) for some resources and then allow anyone who wants to use their material to do so.
This isn't a classical university/college setup, where success of the institution is marked by how many people graduate.
I'm not quite sure how we could evaluate their system, though, as these kinds of large-scale course offerings with low barriers to entry are a newish phenomena.
I think that the prestigious college model of only letting in people who they know have a 90+% chance of making it is damaging to socioeconomic mobility; there's a lot of us who have, maybe, closer to a 50% chance, who know this and would be happy to buy the lottery ticket in question, but it's not available for sale.
I understand the need to prevent people from spending money they can't afford on a degree they can't get, but personally think a weeder class would be a much more fair way to go about doing that filtering.. make me pass a few really hard classes before signing up for the degree program.
absolutely amazing! I don't see transformations like this very often. I hope he receive as much opportunities as he deserves, so he can achieve his goals. Well done
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[ 0.26 ms ] story [ 185 ms ] threadUdacity is pay by nanodegree. Coursera is pay by month.
It was a great deal then.
- the videos are not lectures; they're short, scripted segments. While the production is polished, I found the format irritating. I much prefer actual recorded lectures like the many wonderful (and free) ones available from MIT
- the programming assignments were not challenging. I didn't really feel like I gained anything from them.
I was in the first cohort of the front-end nanodegree, and I also took the full-stack shortly after. I'm pretty shocked by this statement. For me, the vast majority of learning happened by implementing the topics that were discussed in the short videos. Given that the videos are very brief summaries of the topics you're meant to implement in the projects, It's pretty odd you gained nothing from doing them. Did you know the material before starting the nanodegree? If so, I'd argue the fault is on you for choosing a curriculum meant for beginners whilst being intermediate or above. Otherwise you're a very rare person for being able to learn more from watching videos and reading articles than by actually practicing what is taught.
That said, the fault is not his. Shitty udacity never ever mentions they are for beginners. They sell it as "career changing". So blame is on them.
A large portion of learning material (feels like >95%) caters to beginner or junior level people. Very rarely do you find books or tutorials or material meant for those beyond the junior level.
Even the "advanced" or "intermediate" videos on places like Pluralsight, Lynda, etc feel like it's barely a step above beginner. I don't have much experience with Udacity but I'm guessing it's the same?
It seems, IME, like the only way to learn the intimate/advanced knowledge is to talk to core developers or others who have a similar problem domain.
It feels like for every C# in Depth or YDKJS there's 100s of other resources strictly for the beginner. It's just hard to sift through 100s or 1000s of resources before you find something worthwhile.
after that, you have better honed long tail search queries for online.
One simply has to muster up the motivation and effort to seek them out.
Honestly the best way to improve, IMO, is to just start participating and contributing.
"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand."
-- Confucius
You know all of those videos are optional? You can just skip the intermediary assignments if they are too easy, and go right to the final project in each section, which is the only part that is graded anyways. Also, the last project is a portfolio piece of your own design, so you can make it as hard as you want as long as it meets certain criteria.
Were you able to switch jobs/careers at all eventually?
It felt like a connect the dots drawing - giving an ipython notebook with pieces of code missing.
I took the 9-month Self-Driving Car Nanodegree and managed to find a job in the AV industry right before graduating.
I found the ND worth every penny because they broke down really dense topics that you’d usually need to be in a MS program at CMU or Stanford to undertake. Now I’m leading AV development at my current employer!
Like any course or degree, they can’t cover everything. That’s ok though, because you’ve learned enough to continue learning by reading current academic papers. You must be motivated though.
There’s a lot of nay-sayers on HN. I’d encourage you to ignore their excuses for not completing their ND. Usually these people don’t have enough grit or motivation to do something hard. If you really want it...you’ll work hard and persevere to get it.
On the other hand, seeing comments from people who dropped out of nanodegrees makes me consider that maybe it's a little more difficult than it seems. Moreover, the job market for mobile is just bad. It's either six figure rockstar, or unemployment. I think doing one of the javascript ones might have produced better job prospects.
At this point, I'm resigned to indie development while I work a part time non-tech non-profit job to make rent. Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not.
Regarding the education comment...I’m going to disagree with you there. Employers don’t care where you went to school. They care about what you’ve done in the past (doesn’t matter if it’s at work or on the side) and what you can bring to the table. I had to compete with people with PhDs for my current AV job but I got the job because of the whole package of skills that I bring rather than theoretical knowledge in a single niche topic.
This depends on the employer. Google is notorious for not only caring about your school, but your GPA. Also as someone who has looked at hundreds, if not thousands, of resumes over the years - the reality is you very quickly start to look for any sort of signal and schools are definitely something some (I would guess most) consider.
Do I think it's unfair? Sure. But recruiters simply do not have the time to look into every applicant with any sort of detail.
This part is non-trivial, is it? Coming up with a new kind of app idea (which is useful, not just shows 3 twirling balls or something) is not easy.
And doing the millionth todo app or something is not the same.
You'd look for established people and their works from your domain and copy them to study their methods, their style. Figure out and differentiate the core from the frills. Tweak, mix, combine, jam and fuse what you've learnt.
Then you'd merge your favorite styles together to create your own, novel work. Repeat enough times and you have a solid portfolio.
Unfortunately, the programming world is crippled with 'get rich quick' apps/websites/products.
Most newbie programmers believe that unless they have a novel idea, they cannot and should not build an app or a website. That attitude sucks the life and joy out of learning anything including programming.
I strongly urge you to copy, steal and be inspired by as many apps and websites as you can before going for novelty.
What you will learn in the process far outweighs any commercial success that you can hope for.
Good luck.
According to the OP's LinkedIn profile, he started his undergrad in Computer Engineering in 2015, started doing Udacity courses in 2017, and expects to complete his degree in 2020.
> And I’m actually still attending my university online, to finish my Bachelor’s. I’ve stayed enrolled the whole time.
> Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not.
Why not make your side project a javascript oriented one? Two birds with one stone.
That said, you do have to adopt a non standard route to getting a job from a nanodegree. You can't apply like average graduates; you have to network, hustle, and build up a stronger portfolio than your graduate peers
Am intrigued by your comment, as my interpretation of what you want and what you're doing seem to be at odds with each other.
My assumption is you want to get a paid developer role, whereas your side project seems to be satisfying personal curiosity (otherwise, you'd definitely already have an answer to the question of whether your Mac app would make a few bucks). The latter is immensely important in its own right, but quite likely won't solve the first problem itself (again, if it were to, you'd have a surer answer to whether it was likely to make money or not).
I flamed out of university without a degree at all, but put myself in places to get a CMO role (which I ultimately hated, but still...) at a startup because I aligned my side projects with what I wanted from my career rather than just things I wanted to build. It's a hard choice, but it's one that probably has to be made.
Also, your nanodegree looks to be unused as-is, with little link to the work you're currently doing (sure, it's an app, but Android/mobile to MacOS/desktop is about as far as you can stretch the "app" link) - how are you framing it with employers?
No it's not. There's explicitly a part of the article that asks if he was able to get a job without a degree. He does not have one.
I’d recommend reading the papers from the DARPA 2007 challenge. https://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642039904
Pro-tip: You can google each chapter title and find PDFs for free.
the less we use this as a verb, the less the next generation will use it.
and cheers on your nanodegree. i've finished 2 myself.
They also provide you with a lot of different perspectives from a practical system design level.
Also is it worth doing The self driving degree if you’re unable to move to Silicon Valley? I mean is it worth trying to get into that industry if you can’t move to a tech hub?
The typical path into this industry is to start at a big supplier ('tier 1' in automotive parlance) like Bosch, Continental, Valeo, Delphi etc. If you are half competent, you can get yourself poached by a car manufacturer after a couple of years. You can go the HN dream path and work for a tiny Silly Valley startup in the hopes of getting equity or getting acqui-hired down the line, but that will mean far less compensation and longer hours in exchange for a tiny chance of winning the startup lottery. Though TBH at this point the handful of winners are pretty much established and the almost 100 other startups in the AD field in the Bay Area are almost definitely not going to succeed.
Good luck :-)
My sister was also battling cancer so this made it even more difficult from a time and emotional standpoint.
...if only community colleges and branch campuses of state universities had VC marketing cash, we would hear these uplifting stories on the daily.
I know this one is in the Udacity site itself, but I've seen similar posts in other websites. Maybe they're actively advertising it via viral blog posts?
They all offer to generate fluff pieces in fluff piece blogs (also without official branding) and SEO the heck out of them.
It isn't Udadity's responsibility to force people through a system. Rather, they set a bar (payment) for some resources and then allow anyone who wants to use their material to do so.
This isn't a classical university/college setup, where success of the institution is marked by how many people graduate.
I'm not quite sure how we could evaluate their system, though, as these kinds of large-scale course offerings with low barriers to entry are a newish phenomena.
I understand the need to prevent people from spending money they can't afford on a degree they can't get, but personally think a weeder class would be a much more fair way to go about doing that filtering.. make me pass a few really hard classes before signing up for the degree program.