It's a pretty peculiar thing to say. Maybe even a bad attempt at flirting. But it seems like whether it's creepy depends on how it's delivered and by whom.
Sure I suppose I'll grant that creepiness is subjective and others will find this creepy even if I don't.
But what's more critical IMO is what if anything we should do about it. Should NDT lose job opportunities? Should women fear working with him? Not over 'creepiness' IMO. That said, losing job opportunities and women avoiding him is a natural consequence if the frequency/severity of the bad behavior continues.
The power of #metoo is that through unity, past victims can prevent future ones. If NDT truly victimizes women, this disclosure will help prevent more.
That rather depends on if that was intended to complete to "If I hug you I might just want more [hugs]." vs "If I hug you I might just want more [intimate things]."
FTA:
> I was reported to have “groped” her by searching “up her dress”, when this was simply a search under the covered part of her shoulder of the sleeveless dress."
Umm.. what? If you wondered if Pluto was in her tattoo, why not just ask? Or even make a joke, "Hey, do you have Pluto or did you get it removed like I did?"
Actually touching her dress and moving any portion aside is bizarre at best and creepy in many other cases.
If she didnt want anyone looking there and commenting on that part of her body.... then why did she signal attention to it with a tattoo and then show it off in public?
The burden of proof lies with Neil Degrasse Tyson to prove innocence. He is def lying about having sexually assaulted those women! #MeToo #BelieveAllWomen
In this case, and the case with Andy Rubin, I immediately thought "these people are guilty" - without evidence, without even knowing them or having spoken to them or otherwise having any sort of real judgement about their character.
I had to step back and realize that I was jumping to a conclusion prematurely.
In case you are not familiar with how the law works (outside of the court of social media), an accusation, no matter how believable, is not damning evidence - even when multiple accusations come to light. Objectivity is extremely important in these situations because it has already been demonstrated that our instincts are not impartial.
I'm not saying that any given person is or is not guilty, just that they deserve a fair trial.
I've watched NDT quite a bit (being an amateur astronomer myself), but that statement is still creepy. I don't think that being 'energetic' automatically excempts any individual from criticism for their actions and words.
Usually the truth lies between the stories expressed by the two sides. Condemning someone just because he is accused is definitely wrong. If things are the way he says then in my book I don't think he did anything wrong but that's just me and my opinion and I don't really know what happened the same way anyone who condemns him doesn't either. Bottomline he's right about one thing for sure, that everyone is a jury in the court of social media. Guilty or not won't matter cause his popularity has already been hurt by the social media backfire.
For a variety of reasons, most justified, some unjustified, men accused of sexual impropriety in today’s “me-too” climate are presumed to be guilty by the court of public opinion. Emotions bypass due-process, people choose sides, and the social media wars begin.
In any claim, evidence matters. Evidence always matters. But what happens when it’s just one person’s word against another’s, and the stories don’t agree? That’s when people tend to pass judgment on who is more credible than whom. And that’s when an impartial investigation can best serve the truth – and would have my full cooperation to do so.
I’ve recently been publically accused of sexual misconduct. These accusations have received a fair amount of press in the past forty-eight hours, unaccompanied by my reactions. In many cases, it’s not the media’s fault. I declined comment on the grounds that serious accusations should not be adjudicated in the press. But clearly I cannot continue to stay silent. So below I offer my account of each accusation.
The 2009 Incident
I am asked by thousands of people per year to take pictures with them. A flattering, time consuming, but delightful chore. As many in my fan-base can attest, I get almost giddy if I notice you’re wearing cosmic bling – clothing or jewelry or tattoos that portray the universe, either scientifically or artistically. And I make it a priority to point out these adornments for the photograph.
A colleague at a well attended, after-conference, social gathering came up to me to ask for a photograph. She was wearing a sleeveless dress with a tattooed solar system extending up her arm. And while I don’t explicitly remember searching for Pluto at the top of her shoulder, it is surely something I would have done in that situation. As we all know, I have professional history with the demotion of Pluto, which had occurred officially just three years earlier. So whether people include it or not in their tattoos is of great interest to me. I was reported to have “groped” her by searching “up her dress”, when this was simply a search under the covered part of her shoulder of the sleeveless dress.
I only just learned (nine years after) that she thought this behavior creepy. That was never my intent and I’m deeply sorry to have made her feel that way. Had I been told of her discomfort in the moment, I would have offered this same apology eagerly, and on the spot. In my mind’s eye, I’m a friendly and accessible guy, but going forward, I can surely be more sensitive to people’s personal space, even in the midst of my planetary enthusiasm.
Summer 2018 Incident
While filming this past summer, I had a (female) Production Assistant assigned to me, to ensure, among her countless tasks, that every ounce of my energy was efficiently allocated to the production needs of the show. As part of this, she was also my driver, to and from the studio, ensuring that I arrive on time. In the car we would review details of the shoot and she would help me anticipate parts of the shoot to come. Across the many weeks of shooting she and I spent upwards of a hundred hours in one-on-one conversation. We became so friendly that we talked about all manner of subjects, even social-personal ones, like the care of aging parents, sibling relationships, life in high school and college, hometown hobbies, race, gender, and so forth. We also discussed less-personal topics in abundance, like rock lyrics, favorite songs in various musical genres, concert experiences, etc. And we also talked about food – I’m kind of a foodie, and her fiancé was a chef. In short, we had a fun, talkative friendship.
She is a talented, warm and friendly person -- excellent traits for morale on a high pressure production. Practically everyone she knows on set gets a daily welcome-hug from her. I expressly rejected each hug offered frequently during the ...
There's an idea that someone would never accuse another of sexual misconduct because there is nothing to gain. Victims are unfortunately still stigmatized. At the same time, there are those who would lie about sexual misconduct for various reasons including attention, revenge and notoriety. The chance of this happening to a public figure increases exponentially.
Sadly I have to agree with you, when you're in the spotlight like that you have to realise that your actions ripple outwards and drive the behaviour of susceptible recipients.
One can argue "he's just a guy, he did something stupid, probably thought it was funny at the time" but that argument falls flat when you consider that some people will use that as an excuse to imitate the behaviour. Even if you're not a creep yourself, the "I was just messing around" excuse isn't good enough when it might enable real creeps to do the same.
He is right that the presumption of guilt is bad, but typically these things either snowball or fizzle, as more women come forward or none do. If I had to gamble, I'd gamble he's done nothing wrong and this will go away.
I thought Judge Kavanaugh was treated in a grossly unfair manner.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is a chance for us all to do better, let's not condemn him without fair proof. He may well be guilty, but it's best to presume innocent until PROVEN guilty.
31 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 72.8 ms ] threadCharitable reading: "a funny throw away comment"
Sure I suppose I'll grant that creepiness is subjective and others will find this creepy even if I don't.
But what's more critical IMO is what if anything we should do about it. Should NDT lose job opportunities? Should women fear working with him? Not over 'creepiness' IMO. That said, losing job opportunities and women avoiding him is a natural consequence if the frequency/severity of the bad behavior continues.
The power of #metoo is that through unity, past victims can prevent future ones. If NDT truly victimizes women, this disclosure will help prevent more.
To me, it feels like an insult to all people who were actual victims of sexual harassment.
Umm.. what? If you wondered if Pluto was in her tattoo, why not just ask? Or even make a joke, "Hey, do you have Pluto or did you get it removed like I did?"
Actually touching her dress and moving any portion aside is bizarre at best and creepy in many other cases.
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p75x225/472313...
I had to step back and realize that I was jumping to a conclusion prematurely.
In case you are not familiar with how the law works (outside of the court of social media), an accusation, no matter how believable, is not damning evidence - even when multiple accusations come to light. Objectivity is extremely important in these situations because it has already been demonstrated that our instincts are not impartial.
I'm not saying that any given person is or is not guilty, just that they deserve a fair trial.
-------------------------------
On Being Accused
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON·SATURDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2018
For a variety of reasons, most justified, some unjustified, men accused of sexual impropriety in today’s “me-too” climate are presumed to be guilty by the court of public opinion. Emotions bypass due-process, people choose sides, and the social media wars begin.
In any claim, evidence matters. Evidence always matters. But what happens when it’s just one person’s word against another’s, and the stories don’t agree? That’s when people tend to pass judgment on who is more credible than whom. And that’s when an impartial investigation can best serve the truth – and would have my full cooperation to do so.
I’ve recently been publically accused of sexual misconduct. These accusations have received a fair amount of press in the past forty-eight hours, unaccompanied by my reactions. In many cases, it’s not the media’s fault. I declined comment on the grounds that serious accusations should not be adjudicated in the press. But clearly I cannot continue to stay silent. So below I offer my account of each accusation.
The 2009 Incident
I am asked by thousands of people per year to take pictures with them. A flattering, time consuming, but delightful chore. As many in my fan-base can attest, I get almost giddy if I notice you’re wearing cosmic bling – clothing or jewelry or tattoos that portray the universe, either scientifically or artistically. And I make it a priority to point out these adornments for the photograph.
A colleague at a well attended, after-conference, social gathering came up to me to ask for a photograph. She was wearing a sleeveless dress with a tattooed solar system extending up her arm. And while I don’t explicitly remember searching for Pluto at the top of her shoulder, it is surely something I would have done in that situation. As we all know, I have professional history with the demotion of Pluto, which had occurred officially just three years earlier. So whether people include it or not in their tattoos is of great interest to me. I was reported to have “groped” her by searching “up her dress”, when this was simply a search under the covered part of her shoulder of the sleeveless dress.
I only just learned (nine years after) that she thought this behavior creepy. That was never my intent and I’m deeply sorry to have made her feel that way. Had I been told of her discomfort in the moment, I would have offered this same apology eagerly, and on the spot. In my mind’s eye, I’m a friendly and accessible guy, but going forward, I can surely be more sensitive to people’s personal space, even in the midst of my planetary enthusiasm.
Summer 2018 Incident
While filming this past summer, I had a (female) Production Assistant assigned to me, to ensure, among her countless tasks, that every ounce of my energy was efficiently allocated to the production needs of the show. As part of this, she was also my driver, to and from the studio, ensuring that I arrive on time. In the car we would review details of the shoot and she would help me anticipate parts of the shoot to come. Across the many weeks of shooting she and I spent upwards of a hundred hours in one-on-one conversation. We became so friendly that we talked about all manner of subjects, even social-personal ones, like the care of aging parents, sibling relationships, life in high school and college, hometown hobbies, race, gender, and so forth. We also discussed less-personal topics in abundance, like rock lyrics, favorite songs in various musical genres, concert experiences, etc. And we also talked about food – I’m kind of a foodie, and her fiancé was a chef. In short, we had a fun, talkative friendship.
She is a talented, warm and friendly person -- excellent traits for morale on a high pressure production. Practically everyone she knows on set gets a daily welcome-hug from her. I expressly rejected each hug offered frequently during the ...
On a related note, I noticed that Outline.com is useful for grabbing FB posts like that one: https://outline.com/csDYmp
One can argue "he's just a guy, he did something stupid, probably thought it was funny at the time" but that argument falls flat when you consider that some people will use that as an excuse to imitate the behaviour. Even if you're not a creep yourself, the "I was just messing around" excuse isn't good enough when it might enable real creeps to do the same.
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is a chance for us all to do better, let's not condemn him without fair proof. He may well be guilty, but it's best to presume innocent until PROVEN guilty.