This is awesome. Maybe then we can finally have a separate group / events app without getting the crappy Facebook feed and notifications. I think most people use facebook either for messenger, or for the group and event features.
Funny, I use Facebook for the exact inverse of this. I actively avoid messenger, group, and event features. I use it to keep in touch with family and share family photos.
It already exists, and is made by FB. It is called Local, and I’ve been using it exclusively for almost 2 years so far. Haven’t had the actual FB app installed on my phones in forever, as Local+Messenger combo satisfies all my FB-related needs.
+1. A lightweight events app that also features better Calendar integration would be fantastic. If I sync events with my calendar now I need to log-in to Facebook to change my RSVP response. Event suggestions only if they don't conflict with my calendar and a way to convert calendar events to Facebook events to share with friends would be killer features too.
I think it's more likely this is to avoid problems with the slew of dating apps that depend on Facebook now that they're starting to roll out their dating feature.
Hypothetically, or in the specific case of facebook?
Companies imposing binding restrictions on themselves is vital to loads of types of business. An insurance company binds themselves to pay out if you make a valid claim, for example.
Well basically every company releasing code under an open source or free software license does so it is quite common. I guess the answer to the "why?" is the same as always: they believe doing so is more valuable than not doing so.
Or "eating your lunch". You make something that overlaps with FB functionality, but people use it instead of the FB version because it works better/has additional features. You make some $$ and all is well. Then FB takes a look and says "Hmm, we should add those features." Now no one needs to use your version anymore.
Alas, they can still add and remove such a policy, or tuned variants thereof, at their own discretion at any time. And have done so in the past. And would be keenly motivated to do so in the future.
So them not-having-the-policy on a particular day N isn't really much comfort for those who'd like to build functionality for day N+1, when Facebook may have rewritten the rules to its own advantage again.
Will they contractually commit to a policy for a specified period of time?
So Facebook realizes that it’s namesake website isn’t producing as much value as it used to, and that by enabling users to customize their experience they retain control of the data. But how can they monetize the third party apps? Acquisitions? Betting most users will continue using the core website?
Of course Facebook would made this change now. They have the freedom to do this now. They have effectively won social at this point. They control 3 of the biggest mobile social apps in the world: Instagram, WhatsApp and Facebook itself. No startup really poses a realistic threat to them anymore. This policy change is just FB saving face in the eyes of regulators (and developers like here on HN).
I think TikTok is going to have the staying power of vine. While Im glad for the people that enjoy tiktok type content have an app where they can create and consume this kind of content, it offers no appeal to me.
Facebook's market position is certainly enviable but I (perhaps naively) think they will eventually be dethroned. WalMart was the retail king... until Amazon came along. I haven't heard a "WalMart kills small businesses" rant in at least five years. They've been replaced. Facebook will eventually suffer the same fate.
But there is very little left to innovate. Almost all kinds of apps are there. AGI is only possible by large corps because of the massive compute requirement.
The next Google/Facebook will be made when either of the following criteria are met:
1. They mess up hard, causing a critical mass to boycott it (highly unlikely)
2. New world changing communication technology is invented, similar to the internet. With similar applications AND government regulations delaying them from developing on the new technology
3. Processing chips become so fast that the average person is able to afford and run a 1 petaflop computer just like the cost of buying and running a PC's today.
Amazon was possible because of the internet. Facebook will remain the King until some communication related world changing technology arrives.
Speaking of platforms: In the Bernstein timeline someone went to Stockholm and convinced Notch that a cross between Steam and Kiva kicks off the next cultural revolution and all we need is a little “mancala money”
I doubt they need to, copying successful features is enough since their own version is the default and they can jam it in users faces in ways that third parties can't.
And just like their acquisitions based on Onvao data, they'll have a whole lot of information on what ideas are worth stealing.
More so than for copying, my guess is that with the release of the dating feature this policy could've probably caused tensions and legal problems with essentially all other dating apps out there.
Dating apps heavily use Facebook not only to get hard-to-fake user info (age/real name) and content for a profile (photos/likes), but also to provide some validity to profiles since Facebook and the social graph in general do a good job of keeping bots and fake profiles at bay, and users know that.
Nonetheless, this could've certainly raised anti-competitive concerns, and Facebook probably figured they are in a dominant-enough position that saving the scrutiny is worth the risk.
> great poets imitate and improve, whereas small ones steal and spoil
> Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different from that from which it was torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion.
> If you see a great master, you will always find that he used what was good in his predecessors, and that it was this which made him great.
Reminded of this Chamath quote attributed to Bill Gates in an interview with Semil Shah about Facebook's platform.
"I remember when we raised money from Bill Gates...and Gates said something along the lines of, 'That’s a crock of shit. This isn’t a platform. A platform is when the economic value of everybody that uses it, exceeds the value of the company that creates it. Then it’s a platform.'"
> "I remember when we raised money from Bill Gates...and Gates said something along the lines of, 'That’s a crock of shit. This isn’t a platform. A platform is when the economic value of everybody that uses it, exceeds the value of the company that creates it. Then it’s a platform.'"
Interesting. But Facebook's platform != Facebook, so I don't understand the maxim that "the value of everybody that uses the platform must exceed the value of the company that created it" in order for it to be true.
You could say Apple's App Store and Google's Play Store are platforms, they even offer services (api/web-services, libs, frameworks, etc.) and devs build on-top and make living off it. But that ISN'T the company. Google has search, cars, ads, etc. Apple has it's own crap going.
Furthermore, Apple is worth 1 trillion dollars. Must the value of the platform as determined by "everybody that uses it" exceed 1 trillion? Or must it exceed the yearly revenue of Apple instead?
Right they are a multinational advertising corporation that tricks people into believing that Facebook.com = Facebook. It’s still a crock of shit however you want to slice it up.
I believe this use of the word "platform" in this context is a much more specific meaning where it's a counterpoint to the idea of an "aggregator." It comes up in discussions about modern large tech companies being "aggregators" or "platforms," and this is the point (allegedly) Gates is making here, that Facebook is much more an aggregator of content that users bring into the walled garden than they are an economic platform for other businesses, which is what Microsoft was/is.
If you believe that all this advertising spending and social media marketing activity actually adds more to companies on Facebook than it does to Facebook itself, then you sort of could call Facebook a platform per this definition. An advertising platform.
right, Gates misspoke or it was misreported.
It should be something like - the economic value that everybody derives from using it exceeds the value the company derives from their use of it.
At the time though I believe all of Facebook's economic value came from Facebook, so that the was the worth of the company.
Sounds rational to me. To GP's point, at least the former policy was somewhat honest. By announcing this "reversal" it's like a lie that involves time travel. That is, they just lied again, and will prove it so at some future point.
Because the ban limited their “ideas to clone” surface area and then someone realized it was a stupid move because they are out of substantive ideas to push the product forward?
I think this is facebook getting scared of regulation and so thinking that if facebook's "features" get adopted more so, then they can be pinpointed by authorities less. My thoughts only.
This announcement comes just days after FB hired a crack team of anti-trust defense lawyers, of course it's a move to defend against potential regulation/litigation. I'm not saying their defense team caused this change either, just that there this fits a pattern that shows FB's leadership is very concerned about potential government action against them.
To whatever degree that's true, I would assume it's to get some momentum of support -- dependency if you will -- generated to peel off some of the people who would just as soon see FB go the way of Friendster. Purely usage juicing.
So Facebook copies every major app and service and then destroys its lifeline immediately killing the work of creators who innovated. Immediately after that Facebook copies the exact same service resulting in little risk, ingenuity and an almost certainty of success.
Sad truth is many great developers will trust them again because there’s a huge opportunity here but they’ll be smarter this time around. Don’t put all the eggs in the same basket and plan ahead a solid pivot when (not if) Facebook renegs.
Nah. There's a fool born every second. Just 5% of developers actually follow tech news. The rest have allowed their jobs to take over their lives.
If people bothered to pay attention to the past, the world would be a much better place. Google, Apple, FB... wouldn't be this dominant because we would have learned from the recent past.
My new startup, EvilCorp is just about to launch a new social platform where we give your private data directly to Russians trying to subvert our Democracy.
Now we can just launch directly on Facebook since they no longer ban us from copying this core feature.
That might not be the case. A friend recently closed her account and I found out because Messenger gave an error (of course the type of error that really didn't convey what happened, but that's another story).
This! Similar events is the only thing I miss about fbook.
I was told that an app / site "bandsNearMe" or something like that would replace.. but I don't think it's gets the smaller acts / DJs / events that I would really like to attend.
Meetup does a better job of notifying me. As long as people are going to use fbook to post about upcoming events it would be nice to have access to things coming locally, since I rarely use fbook I miss some good shows.
Bandsintown does seem to have the small acts, at least near me. It does send these obnoxious 20-character notifications/emails that will only let you read the actual message via their site though.
Cue the beginning of the end. This is a strategic, not tactical decision, and one I wasn’t expecting Facebook to make anytime soon...unless they are in worse shape than even the naysayers suggest.
After all these lies by this trash company, I hope no one falls for the trap. They lie, and lie and lie again. Zero shame.
They can change the policy back at will just like Twitter when they feel like it. Don't develop on someone else's 'platform', especially if they have a shitty track record.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
They're becoming Yahoo...they need insane qtr to qtr growth or else its stock gets smashed, and takes everything else with it. Who wants to work for a has-been?
Google escaped it by adding ads virtually on 100% of the page and added ads one by one on mobile pages and didn't do them much harm. How many ads are now on mobile, 4 or 5? Google still can monetize Maps and Translate and people are doing more of their stuff online.
I guess FB can add more ads but "everyone" has or had FB so adding new users is a challenge. Not sure how Whatsapp can be monetized, in a way that is worth trying.
Anybody that builds an app on a "platform" that can be taken away overnight is a fool. Facebook has made it clear that if they want to change a policy, they could care less about your "business".
Usually the free sort. But even paid hosted services aren't exempt. Amazon competes with sellers on marketplace. And also competes with some of its cloud customers.
The key is level of competition or dominance. It's wise to start looking for or creating alternatives when a company has less competition and becomes more dominant. Because if its power reaches a certain point, everyone loses. The company loses cos it won't innovate any more. Customers will lose on many fronts - customer service, features, stability, price, stupid restrictions...
Off topic, but as a non-english native speaker the phrase "could care less" always bothers me as I read it literally to mean someone does indeed care, since they can care less. Is this one of those cases where the meaning changes through actual use like "literally" now meaning not necessarily "to be taken literally"?
It’s the idea of being descriptive instead of prescriptive. Could care less and couldn’t care less are equally correct according to the descriptivist.
It’s like when someone says that the enemy was “decimated”. The prescriptivists would say that means they lost 10%. The descriptivists would say they lost a lot.
They had a platform. Then they killed it by killing anybody who did something better than them on the platform. Now they have a burned out husk of a platform. Who wants to live and work in that? The kids don't even like facebook, anymore (perhaps partly because it's been stagnant due to lack of fresh outside ideas, I dunno...it's not really my area, and I've always been ambivalent about facebook even when it was still cool).
"Ambivalent" is the word I used. I'm older than the original facebook demographic. I was well into adulthood when facebook took off. It took me a few years to even open an account, and then only because friends, mostly younger friends, were using it to organize stuff that I wanted to be involved in. I didn't hate it, I just didn't really see the point in it. I figured it was yet another social network that I could ignore forever, because it would fail in a few years to be replaced by the next social network.
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 173 ms ] threadOr do you share your family photos with all your friends?
What's to stop them from reversing the policy change? Once bitten, twice shy.
I can’t think of any real world examples, though. So this is all hypothetical.
Companies imposing binding restrictions on themselves is vital to loads of types of business. An insurance company binds themselves to pay out if you make a valid claim, for example.
So them not-having-the-policy on a particular day N isn't really much comfort for those who'd like to build functionality for day N+1, when Facebook may have rewritten the rules to its own advantage again.
Will they contractually commit to a policy for a specified period of time?
This is my guess. A desperate attempt to bring back its core users.
The next Google/Facebook will be made when either of the following criteria are met:
1. They mess up hard, causing a critical mass to boycott it (highly unlikely)
2. New world changing communication technology is invented, similar to the internet. With similar applications AND government regulations delaying them from developing on the new technology
3. Processing chips become so fast that the average person is able to afford and run a 1 petaflop computer just like the cost of buying and running a PC's today.
Amazon was possible because of the internet. Facebook will remain the King until some communication related world changing technology arrives.
The low hanging fruit is already picked.
Famous last words.
And just like their acquisitions based on Onvao data, they'll have a whole lot of information on what ideas are worth stealing.
Dating apps heavily use Facebook not only to get hard-to-fake user info (age/real name) and content for a profile (photos/likes), but also to provide some validity to profiles since Facebook and the social graph in general do a good job of keeping bots and fake profiles at bay, and users know that.
Nonetheless, this could've certainly raised anti-competitive concerns, and Facebook probably figured they are in a dominant-enough position that saving the scrutiny is worth the risk.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/
> great poets imitate and improve, whereas small ones steal and spoil
> Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different from that from which it was torn; the bad poet throws it into something which has no cohesion.
> If you see a great master, you will always find that he used what was good in his predecessors, and that it was this which made him great.
"I remember when we raised money from Bill Gates...and Gates said something along the lines of, 'That’s a crock of shit. This isn’t a platform. A platform is when the economic value of everybody that uses it, exceeds the value of the company that creates it. Then it’s a platform.'"
http://haystack.vc/2015/09/17/transcript-chamath-at-strictly...
Interesting. But Facebook's platform != Facebook, so I don't understand the maxim that "the value of everybody that uses the platform must exceed the value of the company that created it" in order for it to be true.
You could say Apple's App Store and Google's Play Store are platforms, they even offer services (api/web-services, libs, frameworks, etc.) and devs build on-top and make living off it. But that ISN'T the company. Google has search, cars, ads, etc. Apple has it's own crap going.
Furthermore, Apple is worth 1 trillion dollars. Must the value of the platform as determined by "everybody that uses it" exceed 1 trillion? Or must it exceed the yearly revenue of Apple instead?
At the time though I believe all of Facebook's economic value came from Facebook, so that the was the worth of the company.
Sad truth is many great developers will trust them again because there’s a huge opportunity here but they’ll be smarter this time around. Don’t put all the eggs in the same basket and plan ahead a solid pivot when (not if) Facebook renegs.
Nah. There's a fool born every second. Just 5% of developers actually follow tech news. The rest have allowed their jobs to take over their lives.
If people bothered to pay attention to the past, the world would be a much better place. Google, Apple, FB... wouldn't be this dominant because we would have learned from the recent past.
infinite recursion to the centre...
My new startup, EvilCorp is just about to launch a new social platform where we give your private data directly to Russians trying to subvert our Democracy.
Now we can just launch directly on Facebook since they no longer ban us from copying this core feature.
https://outlookzen.com/2018/11/18/a-democracy-that-cannot-be...
I was told that an app / site "bandsNearMe" or something like that would replace.. but I don't think it's gets the smaller acts / DJs / events that I would really like to attend.
Meetup does a better job of notifying me. As long as people are going to use fbook to post about upcoming events it would be nice to have access to things coming locally, since I rarely use fbook I miss some good shows.
They can change the policy back at will just like Twitter when they feel like it. Don't develop on someone else's 'platform', especially if they have a shitty track record.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Edit: why is my comment flagged?
They're becoming Yahoo...they need insane qtr to qtr growth or else its stock gets smashed, and takes everything else with it. Who wants to work for a has-been?
Google escaped it by adding ads virtually on 100% of the page and added ads one by one on mobile pages and didn't do them much harm. How many ads are now on mobile, 4 or 5? Google still can monetize Maps and Translate and people are doing more of their stuff online.
I guess FB can add more ads but "everyone" has or had FB so adding new users is a challenge. Not sure how Whatsapp can be monetized, in a way that is worth trying.
the exodus has already begun
The key is level of competition or dominance. It's wise to start looking for or creating alternatives when a company has less competition and becomes more dominant. Because if its power reaches a certain point, everyone loses. The company loses cos it won't innovate any more. Customers will lose on many fronts - customer service, features, stability, price, stupid restrictions...
Not that I disagree that it hasn't happened yet. I too find it quite annoying when people say they "could care less".
It really is suppose to be "couldn't care less". Meaning, that they are at level 0/100 of the caring meter.
But as languages go, we tend to move towards an easier way to say the same thing.
"could care less" sounds similar, means the same, and that most people associates it with the former phrase.
It’s like when someone says that the enemy was “decimated”. The prescriptivists would say that means they lost 10%. The descriptivists would say they lost a lot.