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Why did I have to read through several paragraphs of speculation and hand wringing to learn that a basic economy award ticket costs fewer miles than regular?
Yeah good question considering they offer less benefit so they should naturally cost less. Seems like something the author could lead with.

I subscribed to Scott's Cheap Flights to see some new (to me) parts of the world on the cheap. I'd say 80% of the flight deals are basic-economy-class seats and it's exceedingly rare to see a similar deal for the next fare class up. In other words if the normal difference between basic economy (can't pick your seat, luggage is extra) is $200, the difference between basic and regular is now far more. In fact it's so much more the flyer may as well pay the upcharge to take a bag.

I'm not sure if this is airlines dumping basic economy seats because they simply don't sell, or if they're trying to make flyers used to paying for upgrades since it's still all in cheaper than the next fare class.

Regardless it makes sense for airlines to price basic economy for the least amount of air miles as the seats again offer the least benefit and the airline will make their money up billing cash rather than miles for the extras.

I wish they wouldn't advertise basic economy tickets. They're a terrible value.
As long as customers are shopping on basic price, [un]bundles like Basic Economy tickets will be a thing.

For some people, they're exactly what is needed.

Well it's also that many business travelers are required by policy to book the cheapest flights
If your company is sending you Basic Economy, save them the other 75% of the airfare and just don't go.
It’s very industry dependent. Sometimes you get paid very well in the public sector with good health benefits, but they’re highly’restrictive about travel expenses because of the poor optics.
The one thing I find baffling is the luggage angle.

"We're going to charge you $25 for a checked bag" triggered everyone to stuff everything in the universe into a carry-on.

Now you end up with half the flight being told "the carry-on space is full, but we'll check the bag for free" at that point. So they're checking bags anyway.

I wish they'd let travelers choose either a checked or carry-on bag for free. I honestly don't need my carry-on during the flight, so long as I can stuff a snack and book into an under-the-seat laptop bag, and if I can check the bag instead for free, then I don't have to schlep it across the airport.

Random trivia: airlines don’t have to weigh your carryon nor count it against performance criteria. Bags that go underneath are weighed and “count” for performance calcs.

Obviously, it affects the airplane either way and there are some safety margins built-in, but the airlines have some reason to push people to maximize use of carry-ons.

One annoying thing about basic economy fares is that the airline charges you to carry your own bag on (though I think one or two airlines may have since reversed this policy). It is “enforced” by relegating basic economy fares to the last boarding group, by which time the overhead bins are likely already full. While basic economy + carryon fee is usually still less than regular economy, it feels like the airline is coercing more money out of you to avoid the risk of a bad customer experience.
It works both ways. If there is less incentive for me to stick with a single carrier, I'll always go for the one offering me the best price, regardless of my status on any given carrier.
If you fly only a handful of times per year, optimizing for current cost is probably the best plan anyway.

If you fly a lot for work, the company may have a preferred carrier (ours is Delta), and the status you accrue from work travel may allow you to book domestic economy and almost always get upgraded to First class. (Basically, unless I’m flying out of Atlanta on Friday eve or into on Sunday PM/Monday AM, I’m >75% for an upgrade.)

This makes me fairly likely to choose Delta for personal domestic travel, as long it’s within a couple hundred bucks of another carrier (or unless that other carrier is Spirit and the price difference is less than $500,000...)

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I think rewards and upgrades should actually cost less if airlines want to increase brand loyalty.

I signed up for Delta's frequent flyer program because i frequently took cross country trips and decided I needed to take full advantage of the fact that only one airline provided a non-stop route from my location to this destination. Being apart of this program led me to choose international flights with this carrier over others because I would earn miles.

Once another airline with cheaper fares took on this route I completely abandoned optimizing for miles and simply started optimizing for cost like many travelers do.

Miles take too long to earn for travelers who fly less than 5 times a year, especially if these flights are domestic. If I were guaranteed to earn at least enough points for pay for a round trip around 500-750 miles from my nearest airport in exchange for flying with one airline consistently I would definitely consider it.

I think they're relying on the theory that a lot of people will drastically over value miles in their mind when calculating which ticket to purchase.
You're probably right, also, since most travelers optimize for cost it will take longer to earn enough points for substantial rewards.

It took me at least a half dozen cross country flights and at least two international flights to earn enough miles for a free one way cross country flight, the benefit just isn't there for normal travelers but I guess this is why it's called a "frequent flyer" program.

I honestly wouldn't bother committing to any single airline until you were traveling enough to qualify for some kind of reward tier somewhere - I go all-in on Delta/Skyteam when I can because the miles I earn get reward status that includes free checked bags and seat upgrades and other perks like that, being able to eventually redeem some miles for flights is an almost inconsequential perk for me.

I get waaaaay more value out of buying regular economy tickets and flying (most of the time) in at least economy plus, if not first class on small regional routes on the free upgrades than I could out of tickets purchased on miles.

(I'm typically around a couple dozen flights a year, so frequent enough to have basic status, but nowhere near frequent enough to get top-tier business traveler level status...)

I suspect it works well for business travellers though; they are not that price sensitive (as long as the fare is within the company policy).
Credit card signup bonuses earn vastly more miles than being a consistent customer.
Only if you churn -- signing up for a card, redeeming the signup bonus, then signing up for another, and so on.

And card issuers know about churning. The highest-value cards also have limits to how often you can churn. Chase's "5/24" rule (if you've opened 5 or more new credit cards in the past 24 months, anywhere, Chase will automatically decline you on any application for one of their cards) is one of the more well-known anti-churning tactics, but not the only one. You have to immerse yourself in the churning/manufactured spending world to really get much more than one or two free tickets from card signup bonuses.

On the other hand, if you already travel enough to reach at least mid-tier status with one airline, it's often worth it to do so; that's when you start getting into large RDM bonus territory. Combine with the airline's branded card and you can easily generate enough mileage to take a nice vacation every year.

Mostly agree — except you don't have to manufacture spend or know anything about that for it still to be well worth it vs points cards. And at the level of spend where you only get "one or two free tickets from card signup bonuses," you aren't getting even a single flight on a points card, so I'm not sure why that's relevant.

Yeah, the value is mostly there if you can redeem for travel annually. Cash redemptions usually require taking a haircut of some kind (to incentivize consumers keeping points in the inherently depreciative system).

To anyone who wishes to simply not have to deal with airline miles earned on credit cards ever again, here's a great option I found: if you have $100k+ across checking + investment accounts at Bank of America + Merrill Edge (their low-cost brokerage arm) you get...

1) 2.625% cash back on BofA's Premium Rewards/Travel Rewards credit card. No messing around with airline miles. Just buy whatever ticket you want. Or, you know, pocket the cash.

2) 5.25% cash back on BofA's Cash Rewards card for "online purchases," up to $2500 per quarter.

3) 100 free trades per month at Merrill Edge. You're not locked into any fund companies and can buy whatever you want. I buy-and-hold Vanguard ETFs.

4) Free BofA checking account, with unlimited ATM rebates + a free safe deposit box. It pays negligible interest, so you may want to use another checking option if you hold larger cash balances, but it's helpful to have around just in case you need a physical branch for anything.

It's really a great deal, and it's wonderful to never have to think about the "gotchas" of redeeming airline miles.

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If too many people start taking advantage of this, they might reduce the benefits, so might be good to keep it to yourself.
Also you have to have over $100,000 in liquid assets, which isn't a particularly large group of people.
But this requires dealing with BoA who are a terrible company. No thanks.
Can't disagree with you on that one, but it is one of the best deals for consumers. My consolation is that BofA isn't making much money off of me, and for customers with higher $$ the service is actually pretty good.
I confess I have a BofA account or two but they're really invasive with there so-called updating of personal details. Demanding to know which countries you're a citizen of and I've read cases where they freeze the accounts until they comply. Reading about that caused me to open a couple of credit union accounts and transition to them. My original reason for BofA was instant access to foreign currency but they don't do that at my local branches now.
I think a lot of that isn't unique to BofA, but tightened KYC regulation that they have to comply with, but I totally get what you're saying.
Except BofA is the only bank to do this. No other US bank has asked.
I agree, and it’s why I closed my account with them (even though I only have American citizenship, I didn’t like how invasive they are, especially since no other bank asks).
BoA service is proprotional to how much money you have with them. If you've got one of their status tiers you'll get significantly better service.
Could you give examples? Or are there sites which catalogue this?

It'd be nice to have some information for comparison with other status banks.

Lol, so do a lot of mileage programs.
My miles card is Bank of America. Worst bank I’ve ever dealt with. Horrible policies. Outdated online service. I paid off my card early (so I could continue using my card that month) with autopay still on, they pulled the statement balance from my checking again. Most other online banks have their payments system tied into the auto pay so it knows if a statement balance was paid. Instead, BoA takes your money and makes you deal with getting it back.

They also block transactions constantly. I get being cautious but they blocked my brand new card because I added it to Apple Pay (which you have to verify with them to set up so it makes no sense that they locked my card after verifying).

I enjoy the current rewards scheme with the Uber card, but they must have received a massive amount of cash from Barclays to have chosen them. Their website and even backend processing is abysmal. No other card I use has such a bad user experience.
Until you have any sort of problem. BoA is probably in the bottom 5 of banks.

The life hack here is to just double down on an American Express card with no fee and membership rewards. You collect more stable points and transfer into travel points at a positive ratio.

My dirty secret is I almost love Amex more than my family. They have bent over backwards when I’ve needed help (stolen wallet outside of the country while traveling), and while I pay $550/year for the card, I get all of the fee back in services while traveling (lounge, airline incidental credits, etc).

Can’t say enough good things about Americans Express.

Can't speak from personal experience, but my father would certainly agree with you. As would a number of other people I know.

A surprising number of people seem to have 'When shit hits the fan, Amex delivers' stories.

The life hack is to sign up for new cards with signup bonus every time you meet minimum spend on the previous card. Signup bonuses significantly dwarf any regular points, even in category cards.

(Personally, I find Chase UR much better than Amex MR.)

That kills your credit rating though, doesn't it?
It will lower it a few points.

If you have a house and a car it kinda doesn’t matter anymore. Those are the only credit I use, and both loans are already made. If travel hacking lowers my credit score from 800 to 785, which makes the APR of some credit card I never carry a balance on go from 18% APR to 21% APR.... so what?

You usually can get the best house loan rate at like 760 so not too hard to stay above that if you are past 30 and pay your bills (being old is s free credit score boost)

Not really. Because of the rules to generate the score (see Credit Karma etc) the effects of a new card mostly balance each other out if you have an old enough average age of credit. On the order of -150 pts for a few months.

The only really valid question for point hacking is, "Are you planning to do anything with your credit score in the next 6 months?"

Decreases credit score: Decreases average age of credit

Increases credit score: Increases total number of credit accounts, decreases utilization rate vs total credit

The main barrier to doing this is single-card limits at certain banks (e.g. Chase's "No more than x new cards in y months").

Not even close to -150 in my experience, hah.

And Chase's 5/24 rule only includes personal cards; many people on HN may consult or otherwise have a business, and business cards don't count. Even sole proprietors (which is you, if you have a SSN) can get business cards.

I gave a ceiling number, as someone asking likely wouldn't have an optimized card portfolio for bonuses.

Worst case, they're pulling their second card, where it could easily have a 150 pt impact.

Last I heard, the Chase rule is a lot more nuanced than that with business cards. And if you're at 5/24, you'll be turned down for a new Chase business card as well.

Not in my experience. It definitely costs some credit rating, but (a) if you aren't applying for a loan, credit score isn't valuable to you to begin with, and (b) it bounces back within a handful of months. My credit score bounces around within a 30 point range centered at ~765 or ~785 depending on which bureau you ask.

I would suggest not doing this for a few months before applying for a mortgage or car loan. Also, only works if you pay your bills on time (auto-pay) and don't carry a balance (22% hurts) (i.e., have your personal financial house in order first).

Last I checked the cash back maxed at 1.75% Did they change this recently?
Points convert to dollars at 1c apiece. Base earnings are 1.5 points per dollar, plus a 75% bonus for having $100k+, so 2.625%.
Strange. When I had that card they told me 1% base + 0.75% bonus for $100k+ giving 1.75% total.

Reading the ad now, it looks like you're right. 2.6 points per $1 spent.

Unfortunately, BoA products are subpar, including Merrill Edge. The interest rate for the savings account is nearly 2% lower and the mutual funds available have either high expense ratios or transaction fees. While that 0.6% bonus on credit card spending might give me some hundreds of dollars annually, I'd be sacrificing thousands of dollars for it.
You could just buy low-cost ETFs of your choice for free. If you're looking for some place to park cash, BIL is yielding 2.15%.

That being said, I'm not advocating that everyone switch to BofA/Merrill Edge, just that it's a really good deal for those who want it.

I appreciate the tip. Now I need to estimate how much I'd gain from the card versus how much time I'd spend moving money around.

BTW, Uber's Visa from Barclaycard gives something like 4% on restaurants and 3% on travel, which is the bulk of my discretionary spending.

By "5.25% for online purchases," are you referring to this?

https://thepointsguy.com/news/bofa-cash-rewards-pick-bonus-c...

Which is to say, this is a new deal BoA has not previously offered, scheduled to go into effect in mid-January 2019?

Not that it's a bad deal. Just to caveat the recommendation with the observation that in the game, good deals have a way of disappearing when they're taken advantage of. (Oddly enough, the $2,500 cap is probably the best long-term indicator!)

Coming from a culture less heavy on credit card use than the USA, I find the cashback concept a bit strange.

I understand this: the merchants pay interchange fees to the issuer, the fees are higher than the cashback. Then the credit card issuer gives a part of this interchange fee back to the card holder as a cashback.

So basically you fund a (tiny) zero interest loan to the credit card company and get part of the money back later.

But doesn't the merchant price in the interchange fee? I.e. prices are higher under the cashback system? If prices are not higher, who in the end pays for the interchange fees?

It's a horrible system, and market economics would state that credit card interchange is simply a hidden tax on goods sold. But, it's the system we've got and if you choose to opt-out of credit cards in favor of debit/bank cards, you pay the same price for stuff but don't get anything back for it. Moreover, credit cards offer stronger consumer protections than debit/bank cards in cases of fraud.

One correction--the credit card issuer actually gives a 30-60 day loan of the entire purchase amount to the customer. If you pay off the complete balance by the due date (you can easily set this up via bank autopay), you're charged 0% interest, plus you earn any credit card "rewards" on top of that.

It's all really a rigged game by financial institutions to get people to go into high-interest credit card debt (where they make all their money), but if you pay your balances off each month, it's the most efficient option.

Hopefully we'll see its eventual demise.

The primary reason I spend more on United (from O'Hare), which is consistently more expensive is the 24-hour change policy. After 50,000 butts-in-seats miles customers are able to change to another flight within 24-hours of the original, free of charge. This has been invaluable over the years, since I can easily add a meeting or buy the cheapest, most inconvenient flight and know (has only failed me once) I can change the ticket later.
Delta has the same. Free same day confirmed flight changes for open seats, as well as free stand by, once you hit platinum/diamond/gold.

I'd often use it to make un-bookable connections where you land and immediately get on a plane instead of the required amount of transfer time, and get faster times to destination than you could officially order, lol. Also often just bought the last flight of the day and went to the airport whenever I felt like it that day and took the next flight out.

[I believe] the 24 hour change is legally mandated for all the airlines.

https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/all-major-u-s-ai...

He's talking about 24 hours before the flight takes place. The 24 hr rule for purchases is us law.
Changing your flight within 24 hours of purchasing it is different than changing to a flight within 24 hours of the original.

The latter doesn't need to happen within 24 hours of purchase.

As others have noted, this is not the same thing.

What the parent was talking about is usually called "same-day change" (abbreviated "SDC"), and is in fact only available free of charge to passengers who have a minimum status level within the frequent-flyer program.

Another related perk is the "guaranteed seat" -- the ability to purchase a ticket within 24 hours of the flight, and receive a guarantee that you will have a seat and will not be "bumped" due to overbooking (they'll bump someone else off the flight instead, if it comes to that). Which tends to kick in at the higher status tiers; back in my days of flying too much, I only used that perk once, and the last-minute ticket was expensive, but it was worth it to know I would get where I was going.

Southwest lets you (anyone, not just people with lots of miles) cancel up to 10 minutes before the flight time and you get all of your fare back as a credit you can use for your next purchase with no extra fee. A great feature and one of the many reasons I usually fly with Southwest. Wish other airlines did the same.
Note that with Southwest the cancellation credits are only good for 12 months from the original reservation.
I got for american now. They overbook so much i set my business trips in the morning and happily take a bump for the voucher
Delta cut wayyy back on doing it because United pissed in the pool and idiotic casuals took to the streets and blindly blasted the practice of overbooking.

Is AA still overbooking with regularity?

All airlines do, because they have decades of passenger data to work with and can estimate how many people won't show up, how many people will take compensation, etc. They have policies in place for every contingency.

Passengers don't like the idea of overbooking. But most passengers don't really understand how the sausage is made. And they don't care when the system works for them most of the time, just that it's not perfect, so booooo.

> the system works for them most of the time

That's assuming people prefer having a chance of getting bumped off a flight they booked to paying a few bucks extra and having the same chance of just not getting that ticket in the first place. For me that system never "works for me". Maybe it works for some people, but for others, there's a good reason to hate it.

I used to have a lot of air miles with United but they always found a way to increase the threshold just as I was about to get there. It felt like I was constantly swiping at air (no pun). Eventually I used to use my skymiles to buy The Economist but then they stopped letting me buy mag subs and expired all my miles. I don't miss them.
Basic economy is a sign that end airlines are raising process in a drastic way, and not increasing the value with it.
United's Mileage Plus program is pretty iffy for getting tickets for domestic or international, but one great thing about it is the ability to use miles for goods, gift cards, etc. I've cashed in expiring or insufficient miles more times than I can count for all kinds of useful kitchen items, power tools, and once a pretty nice watch (Citizen Eco-drive). I've found other U.S. airlines are better on reward travel but not as good on other uses ... unless you really like magazine subscriptions.
The value of loyalty programs, for the customer, tends to inversely correlate to the state of the economy.

In very broad terms: tourism is a larger part of the travel market than business travel. When the economy is bad, fewer people travel for pleasure, and those who do don't fly as much. So loyalty programs ramp up the rewards for the people who are still flying, in order to hang onto them. Then when the economy recovers and tourism picks up again, there's less need to desperately keep customers by any means available, so loyalty programs start getting slashed.

On top of that, at all times the big US airlines tend to hand out redeemable-only miles like candy (elite-qualifying miles are the ones that are hard to accumulate¹), which makes them a heavily inflationary currency and requires jacking up the redemption rates every so often to soften the blow of all those outstanding miles.

--

¹ Airlines in the US issue two types of miles. Redeemable miles, usually abbreviated "RDM" in the frequent-flyer forums, do what the name implies: you can redeem them instead of using cash to purchase a ticket. They offer no other perks. The other type is the "elite-qualifying mile" ("EQM"), which can be redeemed for a ticket but also contributes toward qualifying for some level of "elite" frequent-flyer status with the airline. Elite status is what gets you free upgrades and free checked bags and all the other perks.

Elite-qualifying miles, with very few exceptions, can only be earned by actually purchasing a ticket, getting on the plane and flying (sometimes this process is also referred to as "BIS" -- "Butt-In-Seat" -- miles). All the "50,000 miles for signing up!" type offers you see with credit cards are denominated in redeemable miles, for example. If you know your way around the loyalty programs, you can generate hundreds of thousands of redeemable miles per year without too much effort. Achieving 100k elite-qualifying miles in a year, however, is a significant feat and typically qualifies you to the highest public status tier (the big three US airlines each have at least one unpublished tier above that, offered by invitation only to customers perceived as extremely high-value).

I’m currently on a two week vacation through Tokyo, Kyoto, Bangkok, and Krabi entirely funded by credit card points, frequent flier miles, and hotel points. I flew Japan Airlines first class to Tokyo, flying their business class back from Bangkok, and staying in some of the best hotels all for almost free (small amount of award tax out of pocket). The points and miles game is still very much alive.