Yo, so what exactly is wrong with these guys? They are born in America and have so much support and they suck. Some of my friends grew up in rural Asia (yeah, the places of which people make fun of for lack of toilets or for poor English accents) and they freaking kick ass in America, becoming software engineers off loans they pay for themselves and shit like that.
And then these dudes are given free education and mentors and all they can come up with is getting shot in a car chase? Come on.
Yeah we have a lotttt of fuck ups here in the US. Some people's parents aren't really there for them and the kid just wants to beat their own drum.
When drugs are cheaply available, some people lose control of themselves biologically and become threats to everyone else and themselves.
It's probably a bit different from the type of upbringing that is "typical" in asia, with strict rules and expectations for the kid to lead a hard working and sober life?
Just my thoughts. This is generalizing both populations.
Your friends may have been poor, but they probably had a stable family. They probably had parents who showed them love, made them feel safe, and taught them to follow the rules, work hard and dream big. It's scary how dysfunctional a person becomes, when they are deprived of those things.
I've seen this in a number of kids/adults who grew up in abusive homes. There's something inside them that is broken. Some people should just not be allowed to have kids.
Also, at least here in India, if you are brilliant in academics (or above average) there are entrance exams and you can get into really excellent colleges (mostly run by central Govt and some by state Govts too - engg, law, medicine, design, journalism etc) at affordable tuition (which may sound like free if compared to US educational cost) and even if that cost also feels a burden education loans are really easy for such better schools and once you start earning those loans are like nothing compared to the salary you get.
Family stability, love, and community support play the biggest role in motivation and self-being. Ever try to get a depressed person to do something productive?
Not having access to flushing toilets but belonging to an otherwise nurturing environment versus being under the constant threat of bullying, having to pose as a tough guy just to keep your head above the water, saving someone's ass (that's actually what Daniel did to Joel by sneaking out of the classroom and calling for help) means your life is messed up?
It is not like there aren't any troubled kids in rural Asia. You simply will not run into them because they either 1) won't survive or 2) so far below you on the social and economic ladder your passes will never cross
It's really NOT plausible. In fact, stating that it IS plausible is a form of Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, straight up, no chaser. If you have new research to add to the massive body of academic historical literature, then publish away, but dropping little one-line "actually, it might not have been that bad" comments is something that belongs on 4chan, not HN.
Here's a starting point for anyone who might have believed you for even a microsecond:
Hence why every Holocaust denier seems obvious about wishing it happened completely.
Simple denial of the horror has been broken by accounts and ample documentation - for all of the flaws of the leadership of allied powers in that generation one thing the got right was gathering ample evidence of the extensive crimes.
Why not? My understanding is Mensa is kind of a lightweight scam based on collecting money off of people who are proud of achieving a certain score on an IQ test. This teacher said the school administration told him the kid's IQ was tested near 150 which I think is at or above the Mensa cutoff (don't care enough to look it up).
I think that there are a lot of validity and bias issues with the whole concept of IQ testing but I'm curious where your stated lack of belief comes from.
Do you not believe the teacher was told that specific tested IQ value, and that he made it up?
Do you not believe that school districts test IQ or that their scales don't reach that high?
Do you just not believe that somebody of that intelligence could behave in that manner?
(It's the third option that I'd find interesting.)
A fuck-up will always be a fuck-up. And if they get their life straight for a short while, it's just a matter of time until their next relapse. Sad but true.
And from their perspective it's never their own fault, it's always you or someone else's fault. Save yourself from a lot of headache by reducing your interactions with these kind of people, because they will just drain you of your energy.
I am not sure how we solve the peer validation issue. We can clearly see the impact of some surrogate parental validation here from the teacher to Daniel and it had a big impact. The peer validation issue though remained larger while he was in school really to Daniel's detriment. It really impacted his learning and it is very hard to separate out from the social setting. It takes a lot of delayed gratification in a place that feels much more permanent. This sets him up for difficulty later in life with no academic skills. I wonder if we can afford to do one on one intensive teaching for a while or maybe even small group classes (say 3 kids). This is a kid who clearly wanted a way out but didn't know how or believe he could. One on one therapy with a transition to small group classes works very well for kids with behavioral issues and autism. Also some psychological and CBT would have helped. That or we focus on military type boarding school but even those are hit and miss. I think our government really needs to step in and fund some alternatives so that we can end this epidemic.
We can solve the peer validation issue by ceasing to create it in the first place.
In the model of human development I and my peers were taught in public school in America, humans start out life as “parent-oriented” people. Then when we go to school we become “peer-oriented.” I was taught that the transition from “parent orientation” to “peer orientation” is natural, inevitable, and healthy — but it’s none of those things. In fact, transitioning to a peer orientation has ill effects on many people, including this dude Daniel.
Being peer-oriented rather than parent-oriented is obviously unhealthy: just look at Daniel’s plight for proof of this obvious fact. But we teach that peer orientation is THE ONE AND ONLY healthy path to adulthood. We need to change what we teach. Daniel clearly yearned to connect with surrogate parent figures like this dude Joel, but the system was set up to keep him oriented towards his peers rather than parents or surrogate parent figures.
No wonder Daniel suffered the consequences of peer-orientation when the entire school system is set up to make him oriented towards his peers.
Daniel is a casualty of the system. His “faults” were created and managed by the system itself. Daniel is the victim here and blaming the victim is not a good look.
I feel much the same about life in state school in the UK.
You're chucked into a cage, essentially, with a bunch of unformed humans, when what is really needed is a solid set of role models. Teachers can't provide that wholly, because not everyone wants to be a teacher.
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[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 77.0 ms ] threadAnd then these dudes are given free education and mentors and all they can come up with is getting shot in a car chase? Come on.
When drugs are cheaply available, some people lose control of themselves biologically and become threats to everyone else and themselves.
It's probably a bit different from the type of upbringing that is "typical" in asia, with strict rules and expectations for the kid to lead a hard working and sober life?
Just my thoughts. This is generalizing both populations.
Just think a while about this guy's kids, how they will grow up.
It's an epidemic. You can't fix everything that goes wrong in a childhood with a little education and support.
I've seen this in a number of kids/adults who grew up in abusive homes. There's something inside them that is broken. Some people should just not be allowed to have kids.
Not having access to flushing toilets but belonging to an otherwise nurturing environment versus being under the constant threat of bullying, having to pose as a tough guy just to keep your head above the water, saving someone's ass (that's actually what Daniel did to Joel by sneaking out of the classroom and calling for help) means your life is messed up?
"Join your ancestors and die in an oven."
Ok so, if the Holocaust didn't happen, how exactly did the teacher's ancestors "die in an oven"?
Here's a starting point for anyone who might have believed you for even a microsecond:
https://cla.umn.edu/chgs/holocaust-genocide-education/holoca...
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-...
Hence why every Holocaust denier seems obvious about wishing it happened completely.
Simple denial of the horror has been broken by accounts and ample documentation - for all of the flaws of the leadership of allied powers in that generation one thing the got right was gathering ample evidence of the extensive crimes.
I think that there are a lot of validity and bias issues with the whole concept of IQ testing but I'm curious where your stated lack of belief comes from.
Do you not believe the teacher was told that specific tested IQ value, and that he made it up?
Do you not believe that school districts test IQ or that their scales don't reach that high?
Do you just not believe that somebody of that intelligence could behave in that manner?
(It's the third option that I'd find interesting.)
Save yourself a lot of headache by abandoning your delusion that “a fuck-up will always be a fuck-up.”
In the model of human development I and my peers were taught in public school in America, humans start out life as “parent-oriented” people. Then when we go to school we become “peer-oriented.” I was taught that the transition from “parent orientation” to “peer orientation” is natural, inevitable, and healthy — but it’s none of those things. In fact, transitioning to a peer orientation has ill effects on many people, including this dude Daniel.
Being peer-oriented rather than parent-oriented is obviously unhealthy: just look at Daniel’s plight for proof of this obvious fact. But we teach that peer orientation is THE ONE AND ONLY healthy path to adulthood. We need to change what we teach. Daniel clearly yearned to connect with surrogate parent figures like this dude Joel, but the system was set up to keep him oriented towards his peers rather than parents or surrogate parent figures.
No wonder Daniel suffered the consequences of peer-orientation when the entire school system is set up to make him oriented towards his peers.
Daniel is a casualty of the system. His “faults” were created and managed by the system itself. Daniel is the victim here and blaming the victim is not a good look.
I feel much the same about life in state school in the UK.
You're chucked into a cage, essentially, with a bunch of unformed humans, when what is really needed is a solid set of role models. Teachers can't provide that wholly, because not everyone wants to be a teacher.
But then Daniel chose to do drugs. He chose to rob people. He chose to shoot a cop.
I have zero sympathy for Daniel.