Ask HN: Anyone living here completely by your rules and rejecting the “normal”?

35 points by justaguyhere ↗ HN
Most of us live the default life - even those who move thousands of miles away (to other countries, other cultures etc) deviate not a lot.

Anyone here living completely by your own rules? I'm deliberately not giving examples in order to not influence the course of discussion. Just interested in knowing what your rules are and how you're living by them

68 comments

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If anyone reading this were a prolific psychopathic serial killer living completely by their own set of rules, their likely reasonable avoidance of prison food would not let them answer. I think this would be generally true regardless of country or culture.
I am in my early 30s and struggled a lot with the social pressure of getting married, buying a house and having kids, all things I’ve never wanted to do since as far as I can remember.

I refused to obey to those social norms, which has caused several social connections to fade (especially in my original home country), as well as "disappointment" in my family, despite being successful in my career and many other areas of my life. However, I’m lucky enough that I found, for the moment at least, a woman as a partner who thinks the same as me, namely that love and companionship is enough to fuel life without having to “waste” it away raising kids or paying mortgages.

The actual wedding event itself seems like such a cringey bizarre anachronism to me: a mishmash of clashing traditions involving lashings of schmaltz that barely manage to hide more primitive considerations.
The wedding is mostly for the guests, they say, which I totally agree. However, half the guests hate the burden of feeling obligated to go. They rather not waste a precious weekend. Why not do everyone a favor, and just not celebrate? :)
Personally i've probably had more positive experiences at the funerals i've gone to in my life so far than the weddings. I've had poor luck attending weddings....they always seem to end in a shitshow.
Having children isn’t a social norm, it’s a genetic imperative. You aren’t rebelling against anyone but yourself when you refuse to reproduce. Furthermore, you are actually a perfect example of someone who follows all the rules, because proudly rejecting reproduction to instead raise a “fur baby” with a confused woman is the most common substitute for that genetic imperative in liberal cities, and now you’re following that script to the letter.
You embody the death of our civilization. Have you ever felt gratitude for the systems which you count on to sustain you? “One worthless generation and done”...occurs seldom in history .
I just wanted to report that someone (https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ekaulakis) left this comment, and then deleted it before I could reply:

" You embody the death of our civilization. Have you ever felt gratitude for the systems which you count on to sustain you? "

This is exactly the kind of reaction that I am facing from social connections and family for living a "non-normal" life, where everybody tries to make me feel incredibly guilty for taking a decision of not having kids and pursue other activities in the incredibly limited amount of time I have on this planet.

I am in the same boat, having decided not to have kids.

IMHO, the best we can do with people is ignore them. This becomes difficult if they are close relatives like parents or siblings, should be relatively easy with others.

On the other hand, I sometimes ponder if we are not going to run our 'civilization' into a wall by relentlessly keeping having children, so I am not sure at this point that the most rationale decision is to keep going like the last few millennia.
Nobody gets to live completely by their own rules. No matter how much you want to, everyone is constrained to live in the real world (physical, even if not social), and the real world imposes constraints that we don't like (entropy, if nothing else).

Then, the social world can also impose constraints (such as prison, as zunzun pointed out).

The best you can do is try to arrange things so that the external stuff you can't avoid pinches as little as possible.

Fair enough, I should've worded the question with more precision. Unable to edit it now, so leaving it as is
I think this is less true and/or relevant than you claim.

If a 10 on the Yudkowsky ambition scale is “I think I know how to hack the computer that the universe is running on”, I propose 9.5: I know how to hack the computer that my perception of the universe is running on.

But the external universe doesn't care what your perception of it is. So hacking your perception into something that is incompatible with the universe that is there is not going to be workable for very long.
I dropped out of college at 22 with a huge amount of student debt to start a business while traveling through Asia & the US (am from Europe).

After the business took off and the money, countries or the countless short-term friendships stopped providing enough meaning for me I started looking for the next thing.

Now, I'm back on the same path that others never ventured off of. Close to my family & a handful of very good friends, with a great partner and a lovely daughter as of a few months ago. It's simple, it's beautiful.

I’m not attending a meeting right now that I should probably be at but am not required to be at.

Does that count as living by my own rules?

> Most of us live the default life

No we don't, and, moreover, there is no such thing.

This january I am turning 40 and it will be exactly 10 years since I quit my last job. I am a pro sports bettor so I have a fair degree of flexibility and time freedom. However, I am strongly considering applying for work again, in fact I've already sent my resume to two advertised jobs.
Why are you thinking about applying for work again? Are you bored? Lacking social interaction?
There are several reasons:

1) I am finding sports betting difficult to scale, financially it is ok but not great. 2) Bookmakers are getting better and better every year. So am I, but I can imagine a scenario where they reach a stock-market like efficiency and it will be impossible to beat them (also, there is no growth like in stocks). I feel like I need to get some work experience under my belt and become more employable so that I have something to fall back on. 3) Bookmakers limit or ban winning players so there is the hassle of obtaining new identities (typically friends or family members who let you bet in their name) all the time. 4) I no longer like the industry and I am not proud of what I do. I live in central Europe where sports betting is legal but that is not the case everywhere else in the world. I have the dream of living in an English speaking country one day and that doesn't go well with my current "career". 5) I miss social interaction.

I'm really interested in how that will work out for you.

What line of work are planning to go into, return to? How will you represent the decade of pro sports betting on your resume?

With a 10 year gap in my resume I'll probably have to take whatever comes. Ideally it would something analytical, with numbers, where I can learn a lot (I went to a high school with focus on Math and I have a Master's in Management). I don't really care about the salary. I know a bit of PHP and I am currently starting to learn Python.

I worked as a technical documentarist in the past and also in a managerial (non-technical) role for an online bookmaker. During the first three years of my pro betting career I also launched my own online sportsbook but that project failed miserably. Maybe I can use that to partially explain the huge gap but I am still undecided.

(comment deleted)
Well you have a good start. I would think that ten years of successful (i.e. making a living) sports betting would make for a unique anecdote and discussion during an interview.

A strong desire for maths with an ability to tolerate programming, maybe look for a path into data science or machine learning. I see on this site or reddit or lobste.rs for free online courses for both all the time.

Regardless, I wish you luck and hope things go well.

Thank you, much appreciated. I started looking into both recently, mostly under the influence of posts on here but also upon seeing them in many job ads.
Yes, but my own rules are mostly normal.
No, but I do what I can: resisted buying a house as long as possible and have zero debt apart from a mortgage that should be paid off in 2-3 years if all goes to plan, and enough in the bank to cover myself for at least a couple of years should things go tits up. And I'm earning nowhere near what I gather a lot of people on HN earn. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are quite happy to live showy lifestyles yet are in reality only 1 or 2 paychecks away from disaster.
How did you resist buying a house as long as possible? Did you just resist it until the numbers no longer made sense?
I don't have a television. This is a huge departure from the norm for my wife's and my families. We don't even notice, until we visit them for the holidays. Can't handle TV anymore, it's such inane garbage.
To some degree not watching t.v, youtube, and netflix has been very rewarding for me. The consumer culture that has permuated the world really gets tiring after awhile. Just relaxing, meditating, or praying is a lot more calming for me personally than constantly reading or watching something.
i lost the patience to sit in front of a machine for entertainment. Doing it all day for work is enough
True, its hard though to find nature and to find things away from screens in the digital age. That is what I hate the most about this world is how much we are surrounded by screens.
For twenty years I made and sold LSD across the East Coast. I spent my youth and perhaps most of my sanity doing it. For the longest time I lived by only one rule: Are you kind? Now I can pretty much do whatever the fuck I want. It's great, but not for everyone.
Must have been an interesting twenty years.
Less so than you might think. I met my share of characters, sure, but most of the time when I wasn't synthing I was either driving through the middle of nowhere or waiting around. I read a lot of books in a lot of motel rooms and taught myself Attic Greek and programming to pass the time. My first language was Perl via the o'reily book and I used to write out the solution code on a legal pad.

It was after I made the amount of money I wanted that things got weird haha

Oh wow. Do you have an academic background in chemistry? I've heard stories of chem phD students synthesizing in their labs at night. I've considered synthing for the challenge and for personal use, but haven't built up the chutzpah to start.
No I studied Operations Research but dropped out.

Those are not stories, that's the industry. Right now most of it is based out of Waterloo with some in upstate NY but honestly the Canadians are wild - check out https://lysergi.com/ they are selling lsd pro drugs on the clear net!

Interesting website.

The legal jargon on one of their pages is reminiscent of things I'd see in online pharma websites that sell viagra pills, modafinil, and the like. I'm not sure how the legalese holds up in court though, but trying to pass off as a research company is one vector of approach to try pass off as legit, I suppose.

Interestingly, a lot of these pharma websites are based in Canada. Maybe there's a law I don't know about? Regardless, if I were being incredibly paranoid, a website like this on the clearnet suggests honeypot to me, even though it's most likely not. But still... on the clear net, and I'm assuming chemicals are made in house? Other drug sites buy from India/Mumbai/Sri Lanka/Thailand and ship to their destinations.

I'm impressed that they have access to NMR and LCMS stuff too - or at least they say they do. Shits expensive to buy and maintain. No doubt they are probably operating in an academic chemistry lab.... though I don't blame them. A PhD stipend isn't exactly investment banker status, nor is research funding increasing.

Someone whom I know ordered a sizable quantity of 1P-LSD from them and gave a strip to me. I gotta say it was some of the best "acid" I have ever done, maybe even better since on 1P I'm actually able to fall asleep after 8-10 hours of tripping. With LSD-25 if I dose at noon I'll be up until 8am the next day. Other than that there is no discernible difference.

I'm almost positive they operate out of Waterloo's lab or have significant access to their facilities. Otherwise I'm boggled at how they can make sure pure stuff in such quantities.

Hopefully, the psychedelic legalization initiatives in CO and OR will pass and the US can catch up again ;)

Yeah. Probably will take a while. So much for freedom, eh?

I'd be interested if they had tutorials to make your own, but I'm pretty sure they'd like to keep this a trade secret.

I'm nearing fourties, only working intermittent contracts, managed to accumulate enough for a modest FIRE through them (would like a bit more to upgrade the lifestyle though), spend a lot of time between contracts working on things that interest me. On personal front, I haven't been in relationship for over 10 years now (don't have kids as well). I feel like I'm an outlier as far as general population goes, probably not as much here in HN.
How much length do you leave between contracts? How have you found scaring up contract work after long layoffs to go?

I'm in a somewhat similar situation but I'm scared to leave too long of a gap. Not so much worried about the resume gap as falling off on networking and the other things that lead to getting more work. It seems like I'll probably end up working mostly continuously for the next couple years while pursuing FIRE.

My gaps are usually 6-12 months long. I have significant in experience in a hot technology, so I’m currently not that worried about getting new contracts. I find them from internet ads only. As for getting referrals via contacts, I get the feeling that my developer colleagues don't like me very much - I don't share the typical philosophies of the field (huge overcomplication, willy-nilly adding technologies to the stack). Managers quite like me I think - they're happy to see a developer who says the job can be done without changing the stack every quarter. However, they tend to stay in a single company for a long time, so are a poor source of referrals.
Gotcha, thanks for the reply.
Not by my own rules but I've been living in Manhattan out a storage unit since 2017, shower/meditate @ gym, write a novel during the day, day-job at night, then get ZZZs on SOHO streets.

It's affordable. I live in Manhattan. And I'm working to be professionally published by a NYC Publishing House within the next three years, hence reason for wanting to be on scene. I'm 32

I know there are more conventional / logical ways to go about a thing, but you know.

And again, not by my own rules; everything outside how it seems is ordinary + demand law

If you have a storage unit why are you sleeping on the streets ? Or am I misreading?

I wish you the best of luck. I am friends with several published literary personalities and I can tell you it is not easy and took a lot longer than three years.

You are 'not allowed' to sleep in the storage unit, even though it is open 24 Hours. The guards keep tabs on who is in and out. And even if one could, I would still choose to sleep outside. I tell myself: "I'm just Urban Camping .."

Thanks for the wishes. I don't doubt it may take longer than three years. But I've been @ it for 10+ already & have written / self-published what I believe is a great novel (like everyone;) But am without marketing. (What I need's discovery)

And if nothing happens, I'll just self-publish over and again

Really interesting. Can you share more about your day to day?
It's a hassle. But tell myself I make up for it not having to ever make the subway trek from other boroughs. (And doing writing, I feel strangely indebted to do the time ..)

I wake most days around 8 but sometimes sleep in. One morning, I woke up to a Jack-Hammer going off about 10 feet from my head. Once up, I get going.

Drop my sleeping pack @ the Storage Unit, hop a Citi Bike, ride to gym, shower, meditate in the Tanning Booth. Sometimes I run. Staying fit / eating healthy (for the most part) is critical. From there I go to Tea or Coffee and write, write, write, check Hacker News, write, write, write, write.

Day-Job.

Once finished, go back to storage unit, grab pack. If it's raining, will head for scaffolding. If not, will go to one of my favorite spots. And from there I'll look up to the skyscraper windows, flashing w/ TV or Christmas Trees or people having dinner and wonder how the heck they got up there ;)

It’s impressive... your dedication to the art, and your resilience. Sincerely hope you make it.

Had this discussion with an artist recently . He said to me that he’s not interested in a plan B, nor my thoughts about how to hedge the obvious risks in his life.

He said, he’ll make it, or he’ll pick up the pieces wherever he finds them at the end, and do something else.

It’s in a way embarrassing that what I find interesting about your story is the risk element and resilience. At the same time I know that risk is by far the least interesting perspective to it; yet the one that resonates most to comfortable sensibilities.

Thanks for your feedback + thoughts. (As well as to the OP & everyone else who makes HN great) It's the unique questions & introspective input - so native to this site - that make it worth participating in this community.

From your talk with the artist, it sounds he's essentially content with working on a portfolio as great & grand as he can to the end.

I think that's what we're all working on, albeit in our own way, whether it's through building a portfolio of Coding Languages to implement, or gathering a palette of experience to fuel our creativity. We all want those lightning-thoughts & Eureka Moments & to keep learning around the clock.

The "risk and resilience" elements may strike one's interest initially because they're at once, the most readily accessible to the imagination.

Without knowing any details or story-moments, the volatility element is obvious, and does sustain that thread of: 'What's next?"

However, imo, the most stellar instances so far have come from interactions with people along the way. (From mutually reaching out)

Talk to people - at random. If you wish to say something or participate, go for it. Be frank. Don't even think twice - just speak. That's what I'm really working on these days. It seems a default that we're all so guarded or shy or just don't want to enter 'uncharted territory of exchange'. But I sense there's worlds (multiverses;) of character in individuals that remain unexplored because we get stuck in the default for a lifetime.

On tough days, no matter what I'm going through, it helps me to remember: (1) To supersede my drama-rama (hence meditation) & (2) Be extra-open and curious about what I'm seeing take place around me - all happening newly and changing & miraculous all the time.

And when it comes to the grind, code or writing, get your kicks line X line ;)

my emails in the profile; please ping me somewhere to write you; would love to chat further.
What's the monthly run rate using this system in Manhattan?
I'm paying $95.00/month right now.
Wow that's hilariously low and impressive. Good for you, I'm happy it's working out for you. Does that take into account the unit/gym and food, or just the facilities?
No that's just the facilities. Gym + Food / month averages ~ $275.00. But the unit cost does seem low for Manhattan standards
I have a huge whiteboard above my bed.

On one side I have a list of things to do everyday (eat, drink, run, make bed, bathe, get dressed, call ma, be kind) On the other side I have a list of things to do when I am feeling down (eat a piece of fruit, have some water, calisthenics, go for a run)

The middle is reserved for things I find meaningful. At the moment it is empty except for at the top it says "this is water".

I love this. My wife taught me to put focus on meaningful activity. When meeting new people, instead of adking “what do you do” she asks “what do you like to do” and this method of planning sounds like the perfect analogue.
I do this because I go through times where I am either depressed or in a rut and can't seem to jolt out of it. It's the most in-your-face way I could think to help me snap out of it and do things consistently.
2 beers (and counting) (classic Budweiser). Figuring out how to write a Python extension. Roasting a couple of hot dogs. And yes, I live in Mississippi.
I have a wife and two kids, we rent an expensive house on the countryside. I struggle to find enough work even though I have a university degree and I taught myself programming (R). I feel totally constrained every day. I guess that is living by other peoples rules.

So my own rules (which I am working towards) would mainly be decreasing our minimal monthly expenses. This is hard in a country where the norm is to earn a lot, spend even more, pay the highest taxes in the world and where the government wants to make everything even more homogeneous.

Not sure if this would be not considered "normal" here but for the past 15 years I've just been doing my own thing for work. Right now my routine has been: I sleep at 5am, wake up at 12, then play with my daughter, go for a walk, do whatever i like, like watch movies, cook, gym, etc until 4pm then i go to sleep again around 4/5pm and wake up around 8p. then do some work for 2 hours. then more family time, watch netflix, and do two more hours of work around 3am.

It's not very exciting but i guess it fits the description of your post of living by your rules. My wife found it very odd, tried to correct my routine a lot because I don't generally sleep on time with her but she has given up after 5 years.

I did work very hard after college when I created some SaaS sites that are paying for this lifestyle which includes lots of vacation and travel. I'm not very rich though (if I were in America I'd be poor i guess).

One of the downsides of this is that I find it very hard to do routine chores like going to the bank, or catching a flight. I also have never seen the inside of an office (i mean i have but i mean i've never worked in one or had a boss).

I sometimes feel that this is very bad and I should be more normal and then I try to force myself to sleep on time and do 8 hour work like normal people but it has never lasted more than a week. So now I've given up on that as I believe that it's just my center of gravity and it's unfixable.