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Ask HN: How did you escape your safe 9-5 job?

139 points by amadk ↗ HN
How did you escape your meaningless 9-5 job to work full time on what you wanted to work on[1]?

Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?

Did you regret it later on?

Are you happy with the decision you made?

Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that job?

If you are currently in a job like that, then do you have any plans of escaping to work on your passion[1]? if yes, then please share your plan.

[1] Your passion may be a dream job, a special course (masters, software bootcamp, course in another field like marketing or airplane pilot etc.) or a startup. It just has to be something you love but are not doing because you think you're job is currently the safest option for you.

121 comments

[ 0.22 ms ] story [ 187 ms ] thread
LeonM
Just quit.

Really, that's it. Just quit, and go do the work you enjoy.

cube00
Sorry, but this is terrible advice. Do not quit until you have something else lined up. Quitting with no plan for the next day will leave you out on the street. Go part time if you want more time to set something up.
LeonM
Well, obviously you need to have either money or a plan so you don't end up homeless.

The OP edited his question after I replied. When I wrote my reply the question was a oneliner: "how do I escape my meaningless job"

dhumph
Depends. Do you have a family? A spouse? Debt? Do you need meaning in your work or just a paycheck to get satisfaction out of life. You create your own meaning or lack of it - the job doesn’t inherently have or not have it. If you want a more fulfilling life find thing that give you that and do them. they don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
JunaidBhai
I wouldn't say that I quit because I wanted to work on something that I wanted to, but instead, I quit and then came up with something that I would love to work upon.

It was a leap of faith and within 10 days came up with Draftss. 9 months later we've achieved 8k MRR. (http://draftss.com)

Very much happy with the leap of faith. At present, I wish I would've done it sooner.

w1nt3rmu4e
Started my own company with a couple of partners.

Lots of risk and hard work, but it can pay off. It did for me. Not really that company, though it was successful, but companies I started after that which were more closely aligned with what I love to work on.

My plan was to become my own boss, or at least a boss. Turns out it's not that black and white, but it defined my career for the better.

I will say this:

Taking calculated risks is as important, or more, than any other factor in what you'll accomplish in your life. I've seen many otherwise very talented people get stuck in local maxima because they're afraid of failure.

Listen to your instincts. Take risk.

vectorEQ
before you can get something in your life, you need to have space for that. the trick is to know yourself enough, that way, you can choose what you actually want. if it feels like a leap of faith, then probably you have too many unanswered questions (about yourself)
thisisit
The whole safe but meaningless job is just romanticization. The same job can be meaningful if you are working on a good project. It can also be unsafe if the workplace is toxic.

It is about finding what you really want in life. Sometimes safe but boring is good enough. But sometimes working on a dream project might feel like a chore because of the circumstances and people.

whorleater
I love this response so much because it encapsulates a SO style response of "why are you soon X, you should do Y instead". The person asked about how to escape from a job he perceived as meaningless and safe, not a job everyone perceived as meaningless and safe.
coldtea
Well, many times those SO style responses are fine.

"Guys, how much gasoline should I pour to put out a fire?"

"Why are you pouring gasoline on the fire? Use a fire extinguisher or water if it's not an electrical fire!"

genezeta
To be fair, the only description was "your safe meaningless 9-5 job". There was no explanation at all whether this was a personal feeling and the person's particular circumstance, or a more generic association of any generic 9-5 job with the qualities of meaninglessness and safety. In fact, the wording and explanation seems to lean towards the generic association of 9-5 <-> safe and meaningless. more than the person's personal experience.

I mean, it's not like nobody in HN ever romanticized creating startups and pursuing dreams over "meaningless 9-5 jobs", right?

thecatspaw
But you DO escape a meaningless job by giving it more meaning
AnimalMuppet
It might be better to stop looking for meaning in your job. I don't think real meaning is there.

This does not mean that you shouldn't look for a better job, or one that has more meaning (for you). But ultimately, you need more meaning in your life than a job can provide. If you try to make your job provide meaning, it probably won't provide enough, no matter how good of a job it is.

And though a job may not provide real meaning, it can still be really meaningless. If it's just make-work, if it's just bureaucracy, if it's just pointless, then by all means, look for something better. Full meaning for your life isn't found in a job, but a meaningless job is soul-crushing.

JoeAltmaier
Never had one. Straight into startups right out of college. Never looked back.

The fallacy is, that a corporate job is safe. One startup got bought by Dell, then we got laid off. Hadn't been laid off before.

ianai
Those questions seem like they’re a part of a course assignment. Ie the replies here will be reproduced in an essay.
cube00
> Your passion may be a dream job, a special course (masters, software bootcamp, course in another field like marketing or airplane pilot etc.) or a startup. It just has to be something you love but are not doing because you think (you're) job is currently the safest option for you

Hopefully it's not part of a course assignment otherwise the instructor may need a course of their own.

Lumiaric
This was me at my last job. I was there for 10 years, stuck for 5. As other's have said here it is as simple as just quit, but go deeper than that. I'm sure you have come to the same conclusion on how to escape, but you should since down and ask yourself, "Why haven't I quit yet?". Are you simply scared of failing somewhere else, knowing that your current situation is guaranteed? Are you not confident in your skills? Analyze the reasoning for your reluctance, and then working on your confidence. This is at least what worked for me. Good luck!
guggle
I found a meaningful 9-5 job.
diafygi
I agree with this. When I had to look for work last, I asked myself what was the biggest problem I wanted to contribute to fixing (for me it was climate change). Then, I started researching and networking with people who worked for companies in that area. Eventually, I got a job in renewable energy. So far I've loved every minute in this field because I feel it is so meaningful.

There's lots of 9-5 jobs that are meaningful. They may not pay as much as a meaningless adtech job, but if you're in software engineering, they still usually pay pretty well.

hndamien
This is exactly the path I'm on, software eng in ad tech would love to help the cause for addressing climate change - any advice?
diafygi
Sure! Check out this post (and posts like in my comment history).

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154

Also, if you're in the bay area, start coming to events on my bayareaenergyevents.com calendar. Software engineers usually have no issues finding jobs once they come to a few events and learn who's hiring.

TomVDB
I’ve switched from a meaningless 9-5 job to a meaningful one at a different company. And when that became a soul crushing death march affair, I switched to yet another 9-5 job within the same company (but a totally different department.) I’ve been with that one for almost 10 years now and it’s by far the best I’ve ever had (and I don’t see how it could ever be matched by something else.)

When your planning to leave because you can’t take it anymore, you suddenly have a lot more freedom to tell your existing employer what you really want. And if they still want to retain you, things can work out great.

peterwwillis
> How did you escape

Out the window. I had to back up quite a bit and take a running leap, but I was able to easily shatter the floor-to-ceiling pane glass. Marge from Accounting tried to stop me, but luckily I had begun taking Parkour classes recently and was easily able to dodge her.

> Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?

It was a literal leap of faith. Some banners set up to advertise a corporate conference broke my fall.

> Did you regret it later on?

Well, yes and no. I didn't regret choosing to leave my job, as I was able to take a chance and see what I could achieve. But I did regret the broken legs and fused vertebrae.

> Are you happy with the decision you made?

Yes.

> Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that job?

Probably not in this motorized wheel chair...

amadk
Thanks, I'll make sure to pack some rope.
projectramo
A risky, non-9-to-5 job can be just as meaningless as a safe 9-5 job.

The hours and safety of the job are not what give the job meaning; it is you that gives it meaning.

I have worked for large firms and startups (none of them, by the way, were 9-5) and always felt it was a great job to have at the time. There was no "escape" though since the work was remarkably similar. The startups still paid.

To put it another way, I think you're looking at the wrong feature set to make this prediction.

Spooky23
Just be careful that you don’t use your job as a proxy for life. Understand what you want first, then figure out where work fits.
everdev
I was laid off in 2008 during the recession.

I always wanted to start a business but preferred the safety of a salaried position. When that was taken away and no one was hiring I had no choice.

I bought a laptop on my way home and started calling my professional network. Within a day I had signed my first web design client.

5 years later I sold the company.

Both starting and selling my web agency were incredibly rewarding for my professional growth.

dejv
I was product manager for fast growing product, but I was waking up at 5am every morning, just so I can do some coding before work and then do another coding session after I get back from work.

That managerial job was ok and it paid well, but still my morning/evening coding sessions is what I was looking for all day. One day I was like "Cmon somebody will always pay me to write a code." I had some savings, didn't have kids or mortgage, next day I resigned.

It turned out well, I find maintenance contract doing programming job nobody wanted to touch (writing internal application in Delphi) that lasted for decade. I haven't made that much money, but I was able to travel the world few times over, failed few startups, read a ton, play a music and even bought a farm (dont ask).

I am in my 30s, having two small kids, mortgage and that farm. Everything is going well and I am still happy to code everyday and when money get low I go and consult for startups or something. If I stayed at that job I am sure I will have some career going on and more stable live, but I am still glad I did jumped the ship.

roadbeats
I’m also in my thirties and have a 1 year old boy. I want to wake up at 5, but can’t find the power and energy. What would you suggest me?
sjg007
Get your kid on a sleep schedule. There are a few books out there how to do that or you can ask a doctor or sleep specialist. The key is consistency. Go to bed at 9pm, maybe even 8-8:30 if possible (if you get woken up at night). Wake up at 5am. If you consistently wake up at 5am your body will adjust. Sometimes your kid can help with that. Usually they are up at 6am.
lunchables
Eat well, exercise, avoid alcohol and tobacco and GO TO BED EARLY!
roadbeats
I try to avoid thrash food in general, but would still appreciate if you can be more specific about eating well. Do you have a specific recommendation ? A book for dummies ? Also exercise. I've done 100 push up challenge last August, but I was feeling so exhausted every single day.
codegeek
Most people need 7-8 hours of sleep. So if you want to wake up at 5, you need to be in bed by 10 PM.
dejv
I have 9 month old boy and I wake up at 2am, also 3, 4, 5, 5:30, 5:45... Joking aside, it is just hard to keep any schedule with kids that young. Brace yourself, in few months your sleep situation is going to get better.
leopoldo
For you and poster above - I have a 6-month old kid and he's sleeping full nights since 3-months old. He only missed two nights (one was sick and the other one just started teething). The resource we used was called "On becoming babywise", highly recommended! (also, knock on wood, I believe we've been lucky with the baby, so far!)
dejv
Each kid is different, you might just get lucky. Our first born was heavy cryer till her sixth month, then she was sleeping nicely. Second did sleep very well till 6th month, then teething started and he is just crazy.
justaguyhere
even bought a farm (don't ask)

I know you said don't ask, but I guess there is a good story there. so why the farm? :P

dejv
I was born in wine making region and basically everybody there have/had small vineyard and winery. I was living abroad at that time and was visiting familly over Christmas. As it goes we went to cellar of my uncle and then second and third and I got a "bit" drunk when they started talking about some land that one of their friend is going to sell as he is too old to continue working on it. It sounded like amazing idea so I told them that I am going to buy it.

Next day was a bit of a blur and then I went back to SE Asia where I was living at that time. In about two or three months later I've got message "So we finalized papers, you still want to buy that land, right?" It took me a while to understand about what he was talking about, but I was actually ready to get back home after 5 years of traveling around and I was burned out of startups and projects that went nowhere.

I was thinking about making it my only source of income, but after two years I realised that if I want to make it I will have to work minimum wage job for quite a few years and I decided to get back to programming instead. I decided to scale down my ambition and I am having semi-pro winery at the moment. I work there for one or two days a week, wines are successful and sold out easily but to get it to next level will require quite a lot of money and a lot of unpaid labor. Maybe some day.

justaguyhere
Thank you, nice story. Moral is to not make any decisions while drunk :)
malicebird
I've been having the same questions which led me to so good they can't ignore you. The concept of career capital really resonated with me. For me it's about bringing more value to my current organization and to myself to stay in my current job and role, current job new role, new job or on my own.
Hernanpm
Read Mastery by Robert Greene, great resource that talks about this topic widely.
codegeek
I bought a side project from someone else that was doing 2K per month at the time and 4 years later, I have turned it into a 10+ person company (yes bootstrapped so slow but controlled growth and I own 100% of the company). So pretty happy about it. It cost me 60K upfront though which I had saved by working a miserable Wall St. Tech. Job.

I just couldn't figure out how to get out of that routine. I had tons of ideas but could never work on any of them. So I decided to take someone else's validated idea and grow it further. The point was to get STARTED somewhere. Force yourself into it. I forced myself into it by buying that side project and then quitting my job 4 months later. My income went down but couldn't be happier.

EDIT: So a few of you asking how I found the project. It was flippa. Yes, I know it is needle in a haystack. That is where I guess the luck factor comes in. I was just browsing that day and came across that project for sale. It looked perfect for me and I talked to my wife and put a bid. Leap of faith really. I never met the seller but he was an excellent marketer. THe software was crap but he had already built a very small paying audience which I knew could do a lot more.

If anyone is interested, I wrote a blog post on how to buy an online business. Linked on profile.

sigi45
Wow nice. The first time i heard someone doing what you did.

How did you find that project?

jamisteven
Literally in the same position (miserable WS tech gig). How'd you get the grit to make the jump?
sjg007
These miserable WS tech gigs pay well right?
jamisteven
Yea, the reason most of us stay put for a bit :-/ Typically tech jobs at big IB's and hedge funds pay more than your FB's and Google's of the world, and with way more time off per year.
hello_moto
Mind if I ask you what kind of work that you guys do?

Hardcore Math modelling implemented in C++ or something?

codegeek
there is no one way really. I just had enough of it and was lucky to have some money and timing on that flippa project. But I don't consider it just luck. I think of it as me being proactive because I have been browsing flippa type sites for years. So the key is: do something. anything. Even if small. But do it towards your goal.
HeyLaughingBoy
I've found this is a/the key to being successful in anything. Just keep working at it even if you're only making small steps forward. Each step gets you closer to the goal and also puts you in a better position to take advantage of opportunities when they show up.
lionpixel
Can I ask on which platform you bought the project? Would like to do something similar.
codegeek
flippa.
mrfusion
Last time I looked it seemed almost impossible to find SAAS businesses on those platforms. I’d love to do exactly what you did!
tehlike
How did youfind whay project to buy? Are you active on the project, or going more passively?
codegeek
very active. I am not a flipper type of guy. I want to create a real bootstrapped company with hopefully multiple products in the future. This was just the start. I am all in.
tehlike
What is the product about? People are very secretive about explaining their niche, so i understand if you dont want to share.
codegeek
I don't mind. It is an ed-tech product. Happy to explain more over email. Just don't like to self promote on HN :)
dacur
I worked in a support position w/ the DOJ for several years. After my pay was frozen for two consecutive years, I realized I hated what I was doing anyway and quit. Attended a coding bootcamp and have been a paid dev for about five years. Best decision ever.
EZ-E
Remember that your job doesn't define you.

If you think of a job as just a tool to make money, lots of the pressure of having a "meaningful" job goes away. The job has meaning because it allows you to feed yourself and your family.

Applejack
That's some any-time-previous-to-the-late-20th-century shit right there. Only a few decades ago did we start to have the luxury of even thinking our job should be "meaningful". I often think of a caveman or a child working in a textile mill or the lead dude in "The Jungle" screaming out "My job has no meaning!" as they're trying to just not die of starvation. I often find myself too thinking that I would like my job to have more "meaning", but the truth is, my boring corporate job provides me creature comforts that most of the world present or past will never know, and me deeming it meaningless really points to the fact that I lack volition and drive to make it or my life outside of work sufficiently(existentially?) meaningful. Still, fuck corporate bureaucracy that keeps me writing TPS reports instead of using my trade skills.
millak
This. Especially fucking the corporate bureaucracy! I always enjoyed my work before I joined my current company and, with just how _corporate_ it is, it’s opened up the “where does my meaning come from if not work?” can of worms for me. I had quite a negative emotional reaction to the workplace at first but now I realise I have an opportunity to grow by finding meaning somewhere else in my life.

For reference I work at a large bank, so I suppose the availability/features of our systems/applications is not meaningless for our customers. That said there’s no way I can see my professional experience moving forward here. Maybe experience surviving in a corporate environment counts?

SmellyGeekBoy
I was deeply unhappy in my job as a web developer. My co-workers were great but our department (attached to an IT support company) was treated as an afterthought. Our manager had no development experience and had bounced around from department to department. He was basically one step away from the door but the owner of the business didn't have the heart due to personal reasons.

A friend who owns an ecommerce business said that he would create enough work for me full time for my first 12 months if I set up on my own, as well as paying me the same as I was earning at my previous employer. My first job was to build him a new website which involved not only building the site but migrating all of his product and order data, which kept me occupied for the first few months. I jumped at the chance, splitting my time between home and his office at first.

This was 8 years ago and while growth hasn't been explosive, I've been consistently employed since then and now have 2 full time employees to help me out, with revenue slowly increasing year-on-year. I still have the original contract (he started another ecommerce business in the meantime which has grown to be the biggest in their sector) and have picked up a couple of others along the way, expanding into industrial software and interactive marketing. It's a mixed bag, and a lot of fun getting to pick and choose which projects we want to take on.

I honestly couldn't be happier with the way things went. My life is relatively stress free and I (and my employees) earn good money off the back of a very small number of stable long-term contracts. We have a nice office and nice working conditions. Everything I ever wanted and never got in my old job.

As far as what would have happened had I stayed? The company was acquired and the web department was eventually dismantled after years of sitting around with nothing to do. I hear the redundancy packages were half decent, at least.

djohnston
it was a leap of faith and the best decision i ever made.

i left my cushy consulting gig for a small startup that was acquired a year later. if i had decided to stay there, i would likely be doing the same meaningless projects for about 5% more than I was the year before.

Deestan
Is a safe 9-5 job inherently "meaningless" now?

I am good at software development. I help a company with software development 8 hours per day and they pay me for my time. They take care of hardware, air condition, desk space, social stuff, cleaning, internet connection, tax pre-deduction and regular payment transfers. I get to focus on what I'm good at.

My colleagues are pleasant and my work tasks are challenging.

In the evenings and weekends, I spend time with my family, make things for myself, or play games alone or with others.

dominotw
> Is a safe 9-5 job inherently "meaningless" now?

I didn't read it that way. Two sets of ppl whose 9-5 jobs can be 1. meaningful 2. meaningless. OP's question is for second set of ppl. Wans't implying that set one doesn't exist.

rv-de
What does your company sell?
[dead] rv-de
+1 +1 +1 -1 -1 -1.

And still no answer :(

That's the HackerNewsBlues.

userulluipeste
I haven't up/down voted you, but I think I understand why others did. Your comment appears either as relevant to or an off shot from the perceived topic, thus gets judged and receives its due votes.
rv-de
How is the the product not relevant to the meaningfulness?
userulluipeste
It may happen, say... when the love is gone yet almost everyone hearing what you're working on expects you to act delighted.
chomp
OP wasn't talking about objective meaning, but subjective meaning. They sound like they want to move on to doing something that fulfills them.
amyjess
Agreed. I take serious exception to the notion that a safe 9-5 job is something that needs to be "escaped".
extrememacaroni
OP didn't claim safe jobs are inherently meaningless nor did he allude to the claim.

OP is trying to find a state where he's happy, you seem to have already found one, so good for you.

calgoo
Is it not in the title? " How did you escape your safe meaningless 9-5 job?" - I understand what he means, but its still alluding a bit to it IMO.
extrememacaroni
No, here's the title in another form but with the same message: People who had meaningless but safe 9-5 jobs and escaped, how did you do it?
amadk
Hey, thanks for taking the time to respond. Apologies for the misunderstanding. Safe and/or 9-5 jobs are not inherently meaningless. My question was directed towards people who find their jobs to be meaningless, but these jobs also happen to be safe which makes it much harder for them to leave.
Risthel
Thank you. I'm also disappointed how people(millennials specially) find this days 9-5 jobs "outdated" or mark them as "meaningless" without even taking the chance to get one, or taste the struggle to make it's path to a decent job.
gk1
I wrote a longer version of this before[1], but here it is in short form:

> Did you have a strategy or was it a leap of faith?

It was more of a loose plan. I'd been reading Patrick McKenzie's articles about consulting and knew I wanted to try it. When my 9-5 (more like 8-10) job pushed me to the edge, I decided to put in my notice and give consulting a shot.

I had about $30k saved up from four years of 9-5 work which helped A LOT because I made zero dollars for a few months. But that cushion was a result of good personal finance decisions, not because I knew I'd quit some day.

> Did you regret it later on?

No, never.

> Are you happy with the decision you made?

Absolutely. I still have challenging moments but they're the good kind of challenges; interesting and rewarding.

> Where do you think you would be today if you had decided to stay in that job?

Miserable. No way my mind or body would survive that long in that environment for that long.

In short: I made the right decision for myself, but it wasn't a rash decision. My savings cushion helped me survive for the first few months. Even if things didn't work out as well as they did, I would have no regrets for trying.

[1] https://www.gkogan.co/blog/how-i-learned-to-get-consulting-l...