Did you know: In NYC, yellow cabs are required to take you anywhere in NYC.
I think more people need to be aware that in NYC the yellow cabs are required to take you anywhere you want to go in NYC (any of the 5 boroughs). They cannot refuse to to take you. As long as they do not have passengers and are not 'off duty', they have to pull over and take you.
"It is against the law to refuse a person based on race, disability, or a destination in New York City. A taxicab driver is required to drive a passenger to any destination in the five boroughs. You can make a refusal complaint by calling 3-1-1." - http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/faq_pass.shtml#21
What does this mean? This means you don't need to ask the driver if they go to a certain destination in NYC. They are required to. Don't make the mistake of standing and talking to the driver outside of the cab. Get in and then tell them where you want to go. If they lock the door and/or drive off, remember their cab number (on the sides/back) and file a complaint.
Why do they not want to take you to a destination? There are any number of reasons. One of them is probably since it's a long route and they make more money taking people to shorter and more profitable routes. However, it's illegal for them to refuse.
Cabs are supposed to make your live easier and get you to your destination quicker, but yet I still see people make the mistake of accepting that a cab does not go to their destination. In NYC, all of NYC can be your destination!
Why am I posting this? Yesterday I saw a guy (non-threatening, white, well dressed) get refused by a cab and it seems like he probably got refused by a couple of cabs prior to that. I didn't take the opportunity to share this information with him as I was in a hurry. I figure to make up for it, I'll share it with NH since some of you guys may be in NYC too and are not aware of this information.
87 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 70.7 ms ] threadFor example it is very common in England for "distance and a half" fares to be invoked when journeys are outside of a particular region. This is in place so that if a cab driver takes you to "Stixwich" they're not out of pocket on the drive back since there are likely no return fairs from that point. Does NYC deny this 1.5x for further journeys?
http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rate.shtm...
You have to pay $2.50 just to get in the cab in the first place, no matter how far you go. Thus, it is much better for the driver to do multiple short trips. It also means that longer trips are actually affordable for riders.
Only thing I can figure is that he was holding out for an airport fare. Give that it was raining pretty hard, this was kind of annoying.
As stated by OP, shorter journeys within Manhattan tend to be more profitable. The main reason is that once in an outer borough, it takes longer to find a fare to get the cab back in Manhattan. So they either burn time and gas looking for the right fare, or they burn time and gas driving back to Manhattan empty.
> Does NYC deny this 1.5x for further journeys?
There are myriad rules and fare schedules for journeys outside NYC, airports, etc. The 5 boroughs are within NYC, and this is what OP is addressing.
The problem was the cab drivers at SFO are looking to get a $40 fare back to the city, not a local $10 drop off. I've had a driver refuse to take me once (I now know better). In NYC taking a fare to the outer boroughs is usually a one way trip, you're going to have to dead head it back to Manhattan which is time lost.
http://www.rall.com/longarticle_003.htm
The last time I had trouble I was trying to get a ride from the Javits to Queens. Having a friend helped. First we would take a picture of the cab as it approached, getting the number on the roof and proof that he was on duty.
What guys will do who refuse you, but know they aren't allowed to, is switch their on/off duty light. If you tell them you are going to report them and have a picture, they might suck it up and give you the ride.
If they refuse, call 311.
On a moderately related note, did you know that it is a violation of a merchant account agreement for anyone who accepts a credit card as payment to have a minimum charge or to charge you a different price because you chose to pay by credit/debit? If someone is giving you trouble, call the number on the back of the credit card to report them.
no fees, no tax, under-the-table income. Happens in a surprisingly large number of establishments.
On a related note, I also believe (no link or citation sorry) that there can't be a maximum on the amount you want to pay with credit. For example, car dealerships tend to say they can only accept up to a certain amount to be put on a credit card, even though the agreements with credit card companies say they can't do that.
For example, in New York, levying a surcharge is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $500, one year in prison, or both.
These rules were implemented to re-enforce the "everywhere you want to be" mantra. It would get really confusing if every merchant had different rules. The net positive of taking plastic typically outweighs the negative of low dollar transactions, so retailers go with it. Losing the ability to take Visa is a huge knock on a business, so they tend to follow these rules.
So they can have separate "cash" and "credit" prices but they can't have a single price and say "5c more for credit". The obvious reason being that the credit card companies want their piece of the pie but it also protects consumers from hidden signs. I know of one station that has a single price with a "5c more for credit sign" that isn't illuminated and can't be seen at night without looking closely.
It's also important to differentiate PIN based transactions from signature based. The "accept all cards" rules are the creation of Visa and Mastercard, they aren't inherent in law, and don't apply to (most? any?) PIN-based debit networks.
It's generally not against the rules to charge a surcharge on debit transactions.
Another pro-tip: many times Lincoln town cars will take you like a taxi but they are not allowed to pick you up unless you called for a car so get in before negotiating the price
Reasons why cab drivers could not pick you up: 1.) shift change in 15 minutes. So they can take you 15 minutes away but they can't drive an hour into Brooklyn and miss their shift change. 2.) Car maintenance, refueling. If the car is running low on fuel they can pick people up on short drives towards the gas station but it wouldn't make sense for them to go the opposite way.
I am all for dialing 3-1-1 and think people should, however sometimes knowing the full context will take you from being upset at the cab driver to being understanding.
How does one know the true reason a cab might refuse to take you? Sex? Race? Age? What if a cab took a white guy (non-threatening looking) to a location, but refused to take a black guy (also non-threatening looking) to the same location?
Yes, there are valid reasons like shift ending, etc, but perhaps they could have signs stating their hours.
99% of the time these are not the circumstances when a cab driver attempts a pick-up but refuses when he hears the location.
Also, be aware that they have a counter-strategy if they don't want to take you. One time, my girlfriend and I got into the cab, told him where to go in Brooklyn, and within 60 seconds he had "car trouble". I was pretty sure sure he was bluffing and called him on it, and he said either (can't quite recall) he needed to go to a shop immediately, or he needed a tow. We sat in the cab for about 30 seconds, and then got out. He pulled away, almost certainly to find another fare.
Next time, I will get the details and file a complaint. If he really did have car trouble and a record of service, he should be able to have it dismissed.
Cab drivers are free to pursue any other career path if they so choose and are made aware of the rules before they get behind the wheel.
They are implicitly agreeing to the laws governing Yellow Cabs by driving one.
What you're suggesting would be like if I told my boss I wasn't programming today and if he wanted any work out of me that he better come up with something else.
Also, FOO might just be something that statistically increases the chance of your boss getting robbed/murdered.
Cab drivers aren't blind sided by the potential pitfalls of their job. They know the hazards when they start. To suggest anything else is not only ridiculous, but it undermines the judgment of cab drivers.
I knew the risks of my industry before I started the job. I made a decision to take it based on my salary/benefits vs the potential hazards. Cab drivers do the same. The law is in place to prevent people from being exploited by cab drivers. If my industry likewise needed further anti-exploitation rules, I wouldn't be opposed to them.
But not only that, as fun as it is to debate the merits or pitfalls of laws regarding yellow cab drivers in NYC, at some point it is important to recognize that the laws are a certain way and until they are changed or made "blue", they are the system that we have to work within.
If there is a similar law in your industry you'd just give up? Your argument of knowing the risk beforehand is irrelevant. I'm not a cab driver nor do I want to be, I'm just pointing out that this system is ill conceived and as most of us our entrepreneurs, aspiring entrepreneurs or just problem solvers in general I am surprised that this sort of scheme of creating an artificially high barrier of entry, price fixing and regulation has received such a positive response.
I don't appreciate how you've bastardized my argument and then really eloquently explained yours. But that doesn't matter because your argument is a wash.
Maybe the system is inefficient, maybe it's not. The law came out of people not offering rides based on race and destination. What is the point of a subjectively offered city service with no viable alternative?
I know you think you understand the system, but why do you claim to know the system is inefficient and does more harm to both consumers and cab drivers? Is it based on this article? The comments? Have you done or read studies on effects of official city taxis and how their destination rules impact the citizens and drivers?
I doubt you have. So this is my argument You're trying to impose what you think (with likely not enough information) on an entire industry and all of its consumers. If the industry was so terrible towards cab drivers, then the industry would change because no one would be a cab driver. But there are still more people willing to drive a cab than there are medallions available so this horrible injustice your claiming doesn't seem to impact drivers as much as you wish it did.
If there was a law that made my industry so inefficient it harmed me and my customers so much and benefited my boss to an outrageous extent then I would show my disapproval by changing industries (either permanently or temporarily via a strike). That is how changes to the status quo are made in a market. Reducing demand so suppliers have to change their offer.
My argument is that a private company should be able to offer whatever service they want. If the city of New York wants to offer a complete service then they should add a taxi service as part of the MTA. Also, I don't think I mentioned race. Destination discrimination is mainly about minimizing risk and avoiding areas dense with blue dots on this map http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map
>>What is the point of a subjectively offered city service with no viable alternative?
This is not a city service. It's a private service in the city that well established companies have lobbied nyc government to increase the barrier of entry for. Subways and busses are city services, they are the ones that should have universal service routes.
>> If there was a law that made my industry so inefficient it harmed me and my customers so much and benefited my boss to an outrageous extent then I would show my disapproval by changing industries (either permanently or temporarily via a strike). That is how changes to the status quo are made in a market. Reducing demand so suppliers have to change their offer.
No, going on strike would decrease supply NOT demand. Also, do you really think cab drivers have an alternate industry to flock to?
This is not your original argument. The Yellow Cab company does offer the service they want -> A trip to anywhere that cant be discriminated against based on race or destination (it’s on the NYC transportation website). Your argument was that each individual driver should be able to pick and choose who to take based on any factors they deem relevant, which DOES include race, religion, or any other factor you can think of.
>This is not a city service.
I apologize, I began to use “city service” instead of “only service governmentally sanctioned by the city.” But the argument remains, what is the point of allowing subjectivity in the only government sanctioned cab company?
>No, going on strike would decrease supply not demand
Again, I apologize for not being more explicit. I was referring to the demand for cab driver jobs by potential cab drivers. I switched from talking about the market for cab rides to the market for cab driver jobs without explaining. Going on strike would decrease the demand for cab driver jobs. The suppliers would then have to make a more compelling offer to potential cab drivers for them to get back behind the wheels of cabs.
>Do you really think cab drivers have an alternative industry to flock to?
Yes. At any point I’m sure there are thousands of other unskilled-labor jobs in NYC that cab drivers can get in to. Driving is not a field of specialized labor. Anyone with a license and can pass the test can do it.
A better example would be your local government creating a system that requires you to pay $100,000+ for a medallion just for the right to create code in your city and then forcing you to accommodate any potential client's request for software.
It is the exact same as "your boss... was hired by the person that owns the company to tell you what to do."
What I am saying is that these rules are not well thought out rules.
The cabbies or cab companies are allowed by the city to operate, and that's a nearly steady stream of money, based on a limited number of medallions. The least the public can expect, is that any authorized cab will take them to where they want to go.
And yeah, I avoid the black car "limos" whenever possible. They're like vermin way-uptown (way, way too many of 'em), and they charge whatever they feel like charging. Always negotiate that fee before you get in.
I don't feel sorry for cabbies. It's not much more of a job than a shoe-shine boy with a driver's license, and some of these guys still shouldn't be behind the wheel.
It's also better, as a customer, once you learn the map yourself. I've had these guys deliberately take congested or longer, round-about routes, to jack up the price. Once you know the map yourself, you can sometimes insist on a certain route, within reason.
Tons of NYC cabbies were also recently busted leaving some kind of "outer borough surcharge" feature engaged on the meter, within Manhattan where it doesn't apply. Tell me how all the money they raked in over the years doing this, could ever be returned to the customers?
It's an adversarial relationship, IMO. I don't trust a single one of 'em, as far as I could throw his non-English-speaking, sweat-stinking a. To generalize.
I believe (maybe incorrectly) that an individual driver pays (>$100) to take a taxi out on a shift. 12 hours later, when they return the cab, it's a pure win/lose situation. The drivers themselves don't feel like the city is subsidizing them at all.
Whereas the rules are put here by the city to create the public good of reliable, non-discriminatory transport everywhere, the drivers actively pay for the fact that the city is creating artificial shortage of cabs...
Unless I'm desperate for a cab, normally I would just find a new one. It's not like SF where there's no way you'll ever find a cab, NY they're so abundant
The standard way to hail a cab in London is to lean in the passenger window when the cab pulls up to you, tell 'em where you're going and then they unlock the doors and you get in.
A couple of times I had people say they weren't going that way, etc. Once I said "I know you have to take me!" but there's not a lot you can do when they say "feck off you cahnt" and drive off. By the time the next day rolls around it's just not worth the effort to file a complaint.
On the other hand, as many times as that happened, I had cab drivers say that they were on the way home, heading in the same direction as I was, and so they stopped the meter early and I got a discount. I also got meters stopped early a few times for showing them a totally awesome short cut near where I lived.
I was upset about this and even once filed a complaint with the Taxi and Limousine Commission (TLC) after a cab slowed down, looked at me, then sped away to pick up a white guy down the street. However, for the complaint to result in a sanction, you have to show up at the TLC court to testify, or the complaint is tossed. I didn't want to spend a day in TLC court so I didn't follow up.
When it got warmer, I shaved my goatee and stopped wearing my leather jacket. Magically, I then got picked up every time. I was disgusted by this and now I take cabs only in extremis.
My coworker had his hearing over the phone a few weeks ago.
Cab drivers are guilty till proven innocent.
I've never had a problem getting a cab to take me where I want to go in the cities I've lived in nor the ones I've visited. The only downside I can see is if you're requesting somewhere that's remote and that would be difficult for the cab to find another fare on the return trip. NYC does not strike me as a place that would have this problem.
The fares the cabbies hate are to emerging yuppie gentrification neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Uptown and the part of Queens near Manhattan. Places like Greenpoint, Astoria, Windsor Terrace, LIC, Prospect Heights, Morningside Heights, etc. In these neighborhoods a cabbie is almost certainly not going to get a fare back to the city, especially late at night.
Around shift change, cab drivers have to get the cab back to the garage so the next cabbie can take over. If they don't get it back on time, there are repercussions. But cabbies like to maximize their working time, so they're happy to take fares going in the same general direction they're going.
You can file as many complaints as you want, but no cabbie is going to take you to the Bronx when they have to be in DUMBO in fifteen minutes. If this rule was 100% enforced, the alternative isn't more convenience, it's less convenience, since cabs around shift change wouldn't stop at all. At least this way people moving in the general direction of the garage get rides.
But let me remind you that this post does not fall within the general guidelines for HN posting. For your reference:
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This is a good tip for anyone who is working or having meetings in NYC. Getting around the city trying to meet clients or partners can be tricky and if you're in a hurry you don't have time to argue if the cab driver can get you there or not.
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On the occasions where I wanted to use a cab to go from Manhattan to Brooklyn or an airport, I always ask first. Most of the time, they say ok, and it's all good. Once in a while (maybe 1/4 of the time) the driver refused. I'm fine with that, you can usually catch another cab within a few minutes -- one who will be happy to serve you.
These guys work long hours and I do not view it is as my right to force them to provide me with service. The law is probably a good one. That said, I believe a certain level of consideration on the part of customer would also be nice.
The only time I was ever refused was when I tried to get a ride to the suburbs (a mega expensive cab ride but I needed it).
http://fictionbook.ru/author/lobas_vladimir/jieltiye_koroli/
It came out in the late 80s but the rules and the medallion system haven't really changed. The book describes the business and the psychology of drivers in-depth.
The book helped reinforce two opinions I hold:
Cab drivers are for the most part scumbags. I can't wait for self-driving cars and automated cab service.
"Political exiles" from the Soviet Union are for the most part scumbags (the author of the book is a "dissident" who worked as a propagandist at Radio Liberty but took up cabbying because that wasn't paying enough).
Now as to how this relates to the parent:
There are four reasons why a cabbie won't pick up passengers in NYC (these have been mentioned in various replies here):
1. Going from the city to the boroughs is a waste of time for cabbies.
2. Cabbies parked in front of hotels only want airport fares.
3. Cabbies racially profile for certain categories of people that have a reputation for paying their fares, tipping well, and unlikely to be muggers. This also depends on the time of day and pickup location.
4. In the 80s certain parts of the city were unsafe (going to Harlem meant being pelted with rocks and getting carjacked; not an exaggeration). Again, depending on who is going and time of day, there is still risk even today.
Yeah, robot cabbies, can't wait for them.
Personally, these kinds of articles always crack me up. New Yorkers know this. Transplants from CT, NJ or whatever cul-de-sac in Wisconsin you people are coming from lately, frankly you deserve whatever crap treatment you get from cabbies.
And don't complain to 311, you transplants complain to much as it is. Just hash it out in a nice little argument with the cabbie. It'll be cathartic and maybe it'll get you down enough to not buy that V-neck.
Really? Guess what? Everyone in NYC is a transplant, at some point. And everyone has to learn just how things work, in detail, over time. It's a process, not a badge to brag about. Natives are the worst...