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Ask HN: Do you enjoy working in a coworking space?

148 points by optimmal ↗ HN
Coworkings are still on the rise and people from startups, freelancers, and corporates are moving in.

To all my fellow coworkers - do you actually like working there? Why/ why not?

161 comments

[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 201 ms ] thread
itake
I tend to prefer cafes over co-working spaces, because I get about the same value (maybe even better coffee!), but at a much lower price.
ordinaryperson
As a cafe customer however it's irritating that you're taking up space for someone who'd like to sit down and drink their coffee.

Or to put it another way: you're saving yourself money but (potentially) at the expense of the cafe owner who loses walk-in customers b/c his place is filled with barely-paying squatters.

sleepychu
I often use a cafe which is focused on playing tabletop games etc. Food/drink is extremely overpriced but with the understanding that you're really buying time and they just have a "don't be a dick" rule that you really ought to be buying something ~once/hr
cuu508
> buying something ~once/hr

what do you buy? 8 lattes or 8 pastries a day, every day, doesn't sound healthy...

muzani
Cafes like Starbucks were designed for squatting though. It's not like coffee was meant to be that expensive; it includes rent.
dotdi
I completely agree with you, so what I do is to find cafes that are not very popular which is probably a win-win: I hate sitting in packed cafes and the smaller cafe sells some more coffee+snacks by doubling as my office.
codazoda
Not sure I get the argument. Cafe owners seem to be looking for the types that come in regularly, spend a lot, and stay a while. Why else offer WiFi at all? Turn off public WiFi and this customer type will go elsewhere.
htkibar
Not entirely. The guys is a frequenter which means recurring revenue, and making the cafe look lively is something that gives it social proof.

If the place has such a problem, they can mitigate it ofc. For example, you can limit the chargers for example (or arrange tables in a fashion that would limit it). Then the amount of squatters would be limited.

Also, as another commenter said, you can just turn the wifi down (or limit the time). You can even charge for the wifi.

PakG1
Limiting the power outlets used to be effective until laptops started getting USB Type C. Now everyone can just bring a power bank to charge their laptop, right?

Charging for the Wi-Fi would probably have a greater effect, plus additional revenue stream, but then would this negatively impact the experience of other more casually sitting customers.

I would be curious to see the coffee purchase numbers for a working squatter vs other customers. If someone sits in a coffee shop for 6 to 10 hours a day, I can't imagine them buying only one coffee. People can get thirsty throughout the day. And if they get hungry too, well, that's additional revenue if the working squatter doesn't want to lose their spot just because they went for lunch. Or maybe they're on a roll, and can't afford to risk breaking their zone by going to a restaurant.

To determine whether the working squatter has a higher or lower sales per hour number would probably also depend on the cafe's sitting customer turnover per hour.

yakshaving_jgt
Naturally this will devolve into an argument over an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Some cafés are usually busy, and there is social pressure to not be taking up space for other paying customers.

Some cafés are not very busy, and having some remote workers inside will at least make it look like a functioning business, attracting other paying customers.

It’s up to the remote worker to use some discretion in assessing the situation of the café they’re frequenting.

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ndnxhs
I have heard libraries are the perfect working places for when you want to get out of the house. You don't have the pressure to keep buying stuff and they usually have plenty of space.
Kurtz79
I have always used libraries to study at university and they would be my first approximation for working remotely, if I ever do it.

Free, silent, no pressure for buying a coffee or having to leave your spot for other people.

eeZah7Ux
"irritating"?

Cafe owners are free to allow laptop users or ask people to stay for a short time.

rbarroso
I like to go to a coffee from time to time and somedays work alone at home or so, but one of the things I like on coworking spaces is that you can usually have a desk with a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. not being limited to work on your notebook's screen/keyboard. Another nice issue is that you also usually can use meeting rooms for video-conferences or even receive a client/partner.

A minus from coworking spaces is that your subject to its own environment, sometimes you have to much noise and so on... for instance, the place were I use to stay is excellent but they have the radio on all day, what sometimes annoys me!

Summing up, I like to have a desk on a cowork which I use most of the days but also being able to work sometimes alone at home or on a coffee and even on a client's office, together with the client/team.

atemerev
No. I enjoy working absolutely alone. I rent a private office now. If I wanted people in my work space, I wouuldn't go full remote in the first place.
xyproto
How did you bootstrap the process of working alone? Did you start working on the side while having a non-remote job?
atemerev
Tried to build a startup, failed, recovered by doing consulting work.
xyproto
Now I want to try the same.
arihant
I dislike coworking spaces. For a solo developer, they offer a lot of distraction. You're stuck in one place which defeats the purpose of getting out of the house for inspiration. For a team, it becomes very hard to create company culture. It feels like you're an empire without a fortress. I'd rent an apartment over a coworking any day for the team.

What I now tend to prefer are other cafes frequented by other designers and developers, or new private member clubs. These clubs offer a lot of stimulus for freelancers and you're surrounded by people of various different fields, which sparks interesting discussions.

PakG1
>> These clubs offer a lot of stimulus for freelancers and you're surrounded by people of various different fields, which sparks interesting discussions.

Could you elaborate on how cafes frequented by other designers and developers, or even private member clubs, differ from coworking spaces? I'm ignorant and am unclear how coworking spaces would not also offer a lot of stimulus for freelancers and not let you be surrounded by people of various different fields, which sparks interesting discussions.

It seems like the distractions are the same, just in one locale, the distractions are attractive, while in the other locale, the distractions are not attractive, and I'm not clear why this would be the case.

arihant
Because coworking spaces are full of employees of other companies, while working cafes are usually solo people working in super focussed fashion. There's no foosball table. No startup kool-aid. It's the same with private members clubs. Usually it is the founders, investors, lawyers, reasonably successful people in whatever field they work in. The networking opportunity is immense, and it's usually a better atmosphere.

I'm sure a coworking space could maybe screen their candidates and employ a deep work culture. But so far they are focussed on free coffee, big TVs with Playstations, beer on tap and ping pong tables.

maaaats
Your posts are very black-and-white. Not all coworking spaces are kool-aid-foosball, nor are all cafes filled with successful people just longing to network with you.
askmike
Not just that but sounds like a completely different world from my experience. I travel around and work from coworking spaces a lot, I have seen more than ~20 different ones but have never seen any coworking space with a ping pong table, foosball table, big TVs with playstations or a large amount of people working for a specific company.
s_kilk
No. Its like trying to work in the middle of a prison cafeteria.
onion2k
I don't really enjoy working anywhere.
meddlepal
No. It sucks but I make do with headphones.

WeWork is the noisiest fuckig shit show in existence.

tmarkovich
I can't stand how poorly sound-isolated the conference rooms and offices are. I have literally been standing outside a conference room, waiting for my meeting to start, and overheard the details of a company shutting down. The private offices that we pay good money for aren't much better. Because they use single-paned glass (cheap) you can hear every foot step, conversation, or other random noise from any office or hallway near you.

What's even more hilarious? Our door locks seized closed for a couple of days, and their fix was to just open all of the locks and leave the entire WeWork unlocked with a single security guard there during business hours. Ridiculous.

foldr
I think there are pretty big differences between people in terms of how much sound insulation they actually want. I find that the insulation provided by the single (floor to ceiling) pane of glass in a WeWork office is more than enough for my tastes. I usually leave the door open if I'm in the office alone.

I have never overheard a conversation in an adjacent office. You can sometimes hear what people in the hallway are saying, which doesn't bother me at all.

chpmrc
This is in response to ordinaryperson's comment but I wanted to write it as a top level answer. Working from cafes can be awesome but make sure you're not a leech. My "decent cafe' customer checklist" is the following: - Take the smallest available space (usually a table for 2 but they'll take the chair away for another table). - Buy at least 1 coffee (even the cheapest they have, espressos are usually ~2 euros) every 2 hours. - Buy lunch if possible. - Tip or write good reviews whenever you can. - Befriend workers/owner. - If they ask you to leave just leave, it's within their rights to do so.

Where I live the average price of a coworking space is 200 eur/month (hot desk). That's 10 eur/day (working days only). If you stay in the same cafe for 4-5 hours (which often is more than enough) you'll probably spend less (unless you always take a MochaPumpkinSpiceChristmasEasterChocolateCherryMatchaLatte).

It's really not that hard to be a decent customer. The only places I don't apply the checklist to are big chains (Starbucks, Costa, etc.). But they won't mind. I worked from countless cafes and never had a single complaint.

Once I worked in the same cafe for 2 months straight. After a couple of weeks the owner would literally invite me to stay as long as I wanted without even worrying about ordering anything. Regular customers really are an asset to a small business.

Plus another customer has no way of knowing how long someone was in the cafe' and he/she should be annoyed with all customers, not just the ones who have a laptop open.

--

TL;DR: be a decent customer and nobody will get mad at you for bootstrapping your startup from a cafe'.

yakshaving_jgt
I like some co-working spaces, but it really depends on the space, and the culture around that particular space.

DOJO in Kuala Lumpur stands out to me as a co-working space with an excellent culture.

I don’t use them regularly however, because I think they’re quite expensive.

It’s often much better to work from a library. Libraries are usually quiet, and in many cases free to enter, very beautiful, and have no social pressure to buy things every so often.

LandR
No.

I work in a shared office, but sometimes I'm the only person from my company there.

So you can end up feeling like you are in someone elses office, especially if you are surrounded by larger teams. There is also very little to no interaction between teams, so when you are sitting there on your own a lot you can start to feel like the weird outsider.

expathacker
The problem with co-working spaces is that there are too many techies there. Sometimes they're fascinating and you want to engage with them, which destroys concentration (in a semi-welcome way), but more often-than not they're populated by self-involved extroverted tech-bros who won't shut up.

Home-office, cafes, parks and libraries have been my offices of choice as a remote worker for the past decade.

fergie
I've tried these 3 things:

1) Having my own office:

   PROS: no disturbances

   CONS: (even) more expensive than you might think, especially once you
   factor in heating/internet/coffee. Kind of boring with absolutely
   nobody to talk to and nothing going on. Can be a bit weird to invite
   people over.
2) Working from home:

   PROS: easy to get to work

   CONS: more distractions than you might think, especially if you have a
   family with small kids, because people tend to treat you as if you are
   "at home" rather than "at work". You really need to have a dedicated
   space in your house to even consider this. Some expenses (internet,
   electricity, general upkeep) are not be tax deductible since you are
   at home. Not super good for mental health since there is no real need
   to leave the house for days on end, and all your stressful work stuff
   becomes associated with your home.
3) Working in a coworking space:

   PROS: Nice space, (some) cool people, meeting rooms, a degree of community

   CONS: Easy to be "alone in the crowd". You need to make a concerted
   effort to make friends, and have people to eat lunch with.
dejv
I do work from home and am father of two small kids (3 and 1 years), both kids and my wife are stayign at home.

From the begining we set strict rules: my office is off place: nobody except of me can go inside, kids are taught that when I am inside I am not home and they just can't see me. I am also not going inside my office outside of my business hours.

With those rules in place it feels like having office outside with minimal commute.

muzani
Same. It's good to set up certain rituals - a hug, kiss on the cheek. Whenever 'leaving' for work and 'coming home'. It helps when drawing the line on some gray area things, like going to the bathroom and grabbing a sandwich.
danesparza
This is great advice. How long have you had this arrangement?
dejv
Since our first kid was born, so for them it is just natural way of life.
puranjay
How do you get around the problem of not leaving the house? I find that the biggest reason I go back to co-working is that it gives me an excuse to walk to the metro station and just be in the open air.
dejv
I always had hobies: I used to be into live music A LOT: I went out to gigs like 5 or 6 times a week, then there was always some friends around, wine tastings, mountain hiking or random trips on weekends. I have small kids now, so I dont go out very often but there is always hiking on weekends and I spend one day a week on my wine farm.
mcv
Some people prefer working completely alone, some people have the discipline to avoid all the distractions at home, but for those who don't, coworking spaces are a pretty good compromise.

My experience with working from home: suddenly you're doing all those household chores that you're always putting off. There's certainly some advantage to that, but it's funny how it works.

isostatic
> My experience with working from home: suddenly you're doing all those household chores that you're always putting off.

I don't understand this. There are certainly benefits (being in when parcels are delivered for example), but the extra hour a day of not commuting (the average US commute is tiny!) gives you time to do chores, not to mention the extra time while you cook lunch where you could empty the dishwasher or whatever, much better than queuing for an overpriced sandwich for trader joes.

mcv
People aren't that rational. Lots of people are very good at finding excuses to put off work. Find reasons to put off household chores, or use household chores as an opportunity to put off something else they should be doing.

Some people have the discipline to ignore such distractions and stick to their work, but not everybody does. I certainly work better when I'm near others who do similar work, so that's the work situation I look for.

flickster
I work part time for a startup in a coworking space and I enjoy it most of the time.

We have are usually 6-8 people in one room and it's not very noisy.

I like to have people around that work in the same field as me, but are not part of my company. Also, we have coworking wide lunch or talks a few times per month, so you get to know the people and their startups. It's quite interesting in my opinion.

I'm also the kind of person that prefers talking in person to voice/video chat.

The coffee is also quite good there.

pimterry
As a solo developer, I love it.

I focus much better out of the house, I get a _lot_ of value and sanity out of the day to day social bits that I'd otherwise miss out on outside of an office environment, and I don't find it particularly distracting.

Good noise cancelling headphones especially have worked great for me - I've got Jabra Evolve 80s bought by a previous employer, and they've super effective. It helps that it's only light background chatter at worse - the culture where I am is pretty clear about not having any more than that at the desks (go get a meeting room, or go chill out in the cafe instead).

lexda15
I prefer working at a cafe. Coworkings remind me about awful jobs at office spaces. At a cafe, I feel more freedom that I can change my working place every day. If you pay for coworking, you have to go there every day. What is the difference between an office job and a freelance job? With freelancing, you can work from anywhere. Startups and corporates move in coworking because it might be cheaper to rent.
muzani
Some coworking spaces do have better atmosphere than a cafe. But those can be deep in the city, expensive, high traffic, which would also feel like an office job.
lexda15
I will find a cafe with my atmosphere. BTW, I met my wife at a cafe. She was freelancing there as I was!
eloisant
Yes, as a remote worker (developer) I really like coworking spaces. Especially since I found one close from home (5 minutes biking).

- Less distractions (especially when kids are home)

- Can make friends with other coworkers

- I enjoy having a (very short) commute to make a clear separation between work and not-work

wrestlerman
Nope. I rarely can focus. People are on the phones, moving a lot, talking with other people. Nope.
viraptor
Yes, kind of. I really enjoy the change of the environment and someone to talk to for a while. I'm doing one day a week from the coworking space and the rest from home.

But I also enjoy any change in general, even if the environment is objectively worse. I'm more productive in a day working from car service waiting room than on a normal day after a week at home. Or in a cafe. Or on a train/plane. Or other much weirder places. (Even if I'm using my laptop actually on my lap, in a terrible seat) I have a great, comfortable setup at home - but the occasional change really helps.

void_nill
No. I used to work as a programmer for Nokia and was with 50 people in a co-working space with different groups (administration, developer, service, etc.). I find that exhausting. Someone kept arriving to ask me questions about computer problems. Every few minutes someone comes and wants to have a cup of coffee or go for a smoke. As an Asperger, I don't like open offices and I personally prefer a single small room with a door that I can close.
mlthoughts2018
Same for me. There is no type of working space that offers even minimal required functionality to perform the basics of a programming job other than a single-occupancy private office with a door that closes for privacy.

Not to mention that all the research indicates this turns out to be cheaper than open plan / cubicle / pod / etc. layouts after factoring in productivity losses from those layouts.

dejv
During my 15 years as a freelancer I've tried many things: coworking, working from coffee shops, libraries, private office, sharing office with one another freelancer and working from home (both corner in bedroom and dedicated home office).

Coworking for me is the worst from both private world (home office or private office) and public world (like coffee shop. In coworking I am easily distracted by people walking around and am not really comfortable just talking myself loud or pacing around. Something I really like to do when designing new systems or trying to debug some complicated case.

Everybody is different, but for me and my line of work I like to work in my dedicated home office and then, maybe once a week, go out to my local coffee shop for a hour where I do planning, reading or some admin work. When I have to do a lot of thinking/planning I usually take a tram to downtown area and just spend day walking and visiting various coffee shops.

I am sure it is not for everybody and there is very little social time during my days, but I have enough social time outside of work.

me_bx
Totally.

I initially started to go to a coworking space in order to get more focus than when working form home.

I got the following extra benefits by coworking:

* built a network * made friends * found clients * found providers and partners * found inspiration

I tried about a dozen spaces in different cities and countries. Experience may greatly vary from one space to the other. Find one that fits you.

thinkingemote
I can focus more in a co-working space as I can't procrastinate as much.
Carpetsmoker
No. I work remote, and I tried all four co-working spaces in my current city after I moved here a few months ago, and didn't like any of them. I decided on just buying a desk and chair.

The biggest issue is that they're all open plan and all of them have music playing all the time, both of which suck. One of them had private offices as well, but they were tiny and window-less and didn't have height-adjustable anything; as 195cm guy that's not going to work.

In general I find that after working from home for two years that I'm really struggling with a "real" office environment. I'm just so used at being able to control my environment now that going back to an office feels terribly constricting.

howard941
I've tried and failed to picture myself in an open plan. I realize in my cube when I'm debugging something hairy I talk to myself, swearing at the hardware and my mistakes and life. For my own sake and those around me I really need to be in either an office, a soundproofed cubical with tolerant cow-workers, or an asylum.
scoot_718
All the cons of an open office, and you have to pay to be there.
LeonM
I've been a solo dev for about 7 years now, these are my findings:

# Working from home ('free')

Working from home is great for about 6 months, then isolation kicks in and the divide between work and relaxing disappears. Given my situation (single, no kids) I quickly become very lonely. A separate in house office helps for a separation between work and not-work, as long as you have the discipline not to use your office space for something else. (locking your office after work hours helps).

# Renting an office (~1000 eur/month)

Can quickly become lonely as well, and can be quite expensive once you add costs for the cafeteria, internet, insurance etc. It does give you social interaction during lunch breaks, and no disturbance during work. There is also a very distinct separation of work and relax time. I did this for a couple of years, but once again I felt lonely and was craving for social interaction, a.k.a. colleagues.

# Coworking place (~300 eur/month)

This is my current setup, I rent a fixed desk in a large open space. In this space there are about ~8 fixed desks and about 10 flex spaces. We have sound insulated phone booths, so it's usually pretty quiet here. My 'coworkers' don't understand my work but that's ok. I use noise-canceling headphones when I need to concentrate. Personally I love it, it's been my favorite setup so far.

emilecantin
I think your specific situation has a HUGE impact on how much you'll enjoy working from home.

I'm married, have 4 kids, and I never feel lonely at home. I totally get how a single guy / gal with no kids would, though.

I never found any issues with dividing work / life, though. I have a dedicated office, and I believe it's a huge part of it.

pplonski86
I'm in the same situation. Renting small office, alone. When I need to work, I'm going to the office. Can't work from home - kids don't distinguish work hours from family hours. Having separate place for work is mental healthy.
emilecantin
I guess it's a matter of education. My kids know when I'm at work; I close my door. Doesn't mean they never bother me, but it's not too bad. When they do, I simply tell them no. My youngest still has a hard time with this, but she's only ~15 months old.

You have to be consistent with it, though.

beatgammit
I've heard of people making a name tag so their kids know when they're working, even if they're not in the office (e.g. taking a small break).

However, my biggest source of interruptions when my door is closed is my wife. I keep telling her to only bother me for "important" things, but we have very different definitions of "important". It's a work in progress and getting better everyday. I've considered renting some office space when I really need to focus, but so far I've been able to get enough done that I don't want to trade the benefits for a little more concentration.

JamesAdir
@emilcantin that really depends. I know many people who want to go to an office just to be around other people than just their SO and kids.
beatgammit
My biggest problem is getting interrupted by my spouse and kids, but that happened before with my coworkers, so I consider this an upgrade. Sometimes interruptions are welcome, sometimes they're not.

I've thought about renting office space so I can have somewhere to go when I really can't be interrupted. But so far, I've been able to work it out.

akulbe
I was going to come here and say this, but you beat me to it. I work from home, and also have children.

They won't LET me get my priorities out of whack. :)

swah
So we complained about open offices back in the day, but compared to isolation, most people end up going back to a big open space with humans talking? :)
big_youth
We still complain about open offices, the GP even said he has to use noise cancelling headphones.

He likes the coworking space because he is lonely and want's a social aspect in his office space.

tracker1
Agreed, I think there are benefits to either or both... I prefer to have people around, but use noise cancelling headphones when head-down coding (so to speak) and don't want interruptions.

I prefer to work in an office, because for me it isn't even family at home, it's just too easy to distract myself and be away from my desk at home.

beatgammit
All one or the other is bad. When you work at home, you can choose when you go to the office vs staying at home.

I have kids, so working at home has some downsides, so I've actually been considering renting office space (or a co-working space) to have a couple days where I'm not around my family to get serious work done. I wouldn't go there every day, just; 3 days/week at most.

marcperel
I haven't had a great experience with co-working at all, I wish there was something like Breather where I live.

Has anyone here had experience with Breather.com?

I work from home but would really like to tap into that "private space" vibe now and then. Regus is available here but it feels like going to the "PC room" in 1999.