Ask HN: What’s your laptop?
I’ve never owned a device that is not a Mac. Currently I have a Macbook Air that is getting slower. I was considering buying something else to run Ubuntu or a Surface, mainly to do some Clojure/JS development.
Any suggestions?
92 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 152 ms ] threadThey (of course) (only) come in stylish matte black, and have the little red trackpoint, which I personally consider the best input device by far (not counting the keyboard obviously)...
If you decide for a professional Thinkpad (which the X1 is), strongly consider upgrading the warranty.
On-site support with coverage for accidental damages is so nice when you need it....
My 4th gen (the current is 6th gen) machine (which is technically a yoga gen1 and not a 4th gen Carbon, but the same base machine) has been running Linux since it's second power-on :)
* Hibernate did not work out-of-the-box
* Lack of fractional scaling makes everything too small or ludicrously big (100% or 200%)
* X server crashes often on suspend
* Audio is too quiet on maximum volume
* Occasionally CPU performance tanks, and I have to reboot
* Track-pad is unresponsive compared to a MacBook (if you have not used a MacBook often before you may not notice this, and it won't be an issue)
* Battery life is a pretty middling 5 hours.
- Battery: A package called TLP should drastically improve battery life[1][2]. Thinkpad t480s with battery life ranging from 6-8 for browsing to 13+ with min-brightness and just playing music. Before TLP I think it was close to 5 max.
- I'm assuming since X is crashing you're not using Wayland. I've noticed fractional scaling (which is a thing in Wayland) causes blurry text. This isn't an issue in X, but I've noticed if I mess around with custom xrandr config to customize stuff, I have issues -- i.e. total system lockup, reboot required -- with plugging in/out external monitors on to the fly. Anyway, a custom xrandr setup should make things a bit easier on your eyes.[3]
- For CPU performance maybe this anti-throttling script should help. I'm able to run at max CPU clock frequency at 85-90+ deg temps without throttling when doing CPU intense stuff[4]
I'm running Arch instead of Debian, so maybe having newer kernels or packages help in some aspects, such as hibernating, track-pad, and X. Idk. Running newest versions isn't always great either, there are often regressions and bugs you notice after upgrading.
[1]: https://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-linux-advanced-power-ma...
[2]: This is arch wiki, but it should still have applicable information for other distro such as debian and it's a bit more readable IMO, https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/TLP
[3]: FYI, this is somewhat specific for a 1440p display, not 4k or 1080p, but you should be able to modify it for 4k it needed by adjusting the `--fb` value primarily. https://gist.github.com/francium/d93bcf75884ebeea216cc04cee0...
[4]: https://github.com/erpalma/throttled
As for battery, my two year old battery hits somewhere between 7 and 8 hours when I work without power for a day.
I don't use suspend at all and have never used the trackpad (why would I, it has a superior pointing device). The trackpad can thankfully be fully disabled in the bios (and has been since the beginning).
The trackpoint combined with the on-site warranty is why I don't even spend time looking for "alternatives"!
https://puri.sm/products/librem-15/
https://system76.com/
https://www.dell.com/learn/au/en/aubsd1/campaigns/xps-linux-...
https://support.lenovo.com/au/en/solutions/pd031426
Things you should care about are:
- Good Linux support (Lenovo is well known to have that)
- Good display
- NVMe SSD (not msata or m2 sata)
- As much RAM as possible
- Quad Core CPU if possible
If you would like to play games, you could think about an external graphics card, then Thunderbolt is required and should be the highest version possible.
Solid advice on the specs! I don’t want to waste time figuring out hardware compatibility to be honest, so I’d pick something not too high end that is widely used.
Thinkpads and Lenovos seem like a good compromise
Take one of the following series:
- X => high end
- T => good value but still top technology
- L => budget but still business line and good specs
I'd like to use a mac as my primary machine. Right now I have an 8GB 13" macbook pro, and when I tried running Windows and Ubuntu in Virtualbox, it was pretty laggy. I wasn't sure if that was because of issues with Virtualbox, or whether my system didn't have enough resources to run virtual machines efficiently. I haven't tried either yet, but I'd be happy to go with Parallels or VMWare Fusion if they run better than Virtualbox.
I'd really like to stay with a 13" macbook if possible. Does anyone know if a maxed-out 13" macbook pro will handle multiple OSes well, or do I need to get a 15" to handle this load?
Maybe for Ubuntu, unless you develop apps with GUIs you can just use a VPS?
Many/some Mac users regret their switch.
Personally I tried it the opposite way. I love Linux, windows is okay - but OsX was the reason I gladly took a 1000 USD loss after three months for getting rid of a fully specced PowerBook. All longtime Mac Users tell me that 10.4 was near the high point...
I tend to work on a few projects at a time, and I'd like to be able to run a VM without having to shut everything else down. I'm fine to power down a VM when I'm not using it, but I'd rather not have to shut everything else down when I turn the VM back on.
Some have hot-swappable batteries (no need to shut down just to switch to a fresh battery), they all have great keyboards, even ancient machines feel fast with a new SSD, and the cooling is miles better than an “ultrabook” design.
Whatever you do, I would caution against buying a machine for the specs. You’ll probably get something heavy, with poor battery life, and if you need more power, you should be doing those tasks on a remote system or a beefy “cloud” VPS instance anyway.
Just replaced the motherboard of my T420s. While waiting for the part to arrive I used a much newer laptop, which only made me appreciate just how great that beautiful old 7-row keyboard is. I suppose I'll have to give it up one day, but not yet.
The 1080p, 1440p, and 4K screens in the Tx40 series and newer (T440, T/W540, etc) are fine screens.
Don't forget the battery life also didn't get 'good' until Haswell chipset laptops came to be, which is also the x40 series for Lenovo. Before that, if you want any kind of battery life you need the extended battery that sticks way out, or the sheet battery which makes a not-so-thin laptop even thicker. Also, finding a battery that's in good shape for a 6+ year old laptop can be pretty tough.
As you point out, the older machines are great for dev work with some basic upgrades [maxed RAM + SSD] -- my go-to machines are the T61 and T520 -- they're tanks that love Linux and are wicked stable.
[currently running Fedora 29, but have 'distro-hopped' a lot over the past year, and never had a hiccup with the hardware compatibility]
It is also incapable of going into hibernate, meaning I have to shut it down every time I want to stop using it for an extended period of time. Closing the lid causes it to heat up constantly, which is an issue if you ever absentmindedly close the lid or put it in your bag without shutting it down. It has gotten to extremely high temperatures from doing this.
Just makes me want a macOS device, for a laptop at least.
Probably the price premium of a Mac is paid off by the frustrations and hours not spent trying to solve these problems
Oh, and you need a new wifi card.
I resurrected a MacBook Air from 2013 and have been running Ubuntu for a week now. It's very refreshing to be on stable hardware even if it's not a powerhouse.
I am much happier with Ubuntu 18.10. Everything is working except fingerprint.
Consider using this: https://github.com/stockmind/dell-xps-9560-ubuntu-respin/blo...
Turns out the BIOS in it is garbage and has virtually zero customization options. So I'm waiting on Nouveau to catch up with the GTX 1050 in it so I can just use the Intel GPU forever and have decent battery life
Compared to the Dell and Razor laptops at the time
I came from an ASUS ROG g751jy which was a behemoth in size. I ran Ubuntu on it for most of the three years I developed with it. My biggest concerns with it were battery life and form factor. Both concerns were addressed by moving to the MacBook Pro. I’m happy I did.
So if your budget allows, I suggest going with another Mac, but if you wish to go somewhat cheaper, take a look at the Thinkpad X1 Carbon laptops or the Dell XPS 13 Developer edition laptops.
My biggest beef with most laptops is the 16GB max RAM. I run VMs and a few Java apps, so I need the RAM. Once Apple finally put it into their MBP line, I was sold.
At work Thinkpad T470.
Very happy with both. A Thinkpad S-series was my gateway drug.
Worked on a rMBP for ~1 year, would always go for a Thinkpad now.
Upgraded the WiFi card to an Intel 8650 and storage to a Samsung NVME 512GB.
Keyboard is pretty good. No real strange key placement. Screen is great since matte was an option. Battery life is great. Form factor is perfect. 13" in the size of a traditional 11".
It can be fixed thou with https://github.com/TomFreudenberg/dell-bios-fan-control
Amazing laptop, great linux support. Shame the TB16 dock is hot garbage.
For $850 (on sale) the specs cannot be beat, 4k touchscreen, 4 core i7-8th gen, 16gb ram, 512GB nvme ssd, and dedicated NVidia GPU.
My only complaint is that it charges via barrel pin instead of USB-C.
Here’s where I bought it, but I got it from their ebay storefront with a coupon or something: https://www.adorama.com/ihp1kt13uar.html
Now, I like macOS but this generation of hardware is shit. I had a 2016 model and the keyboard failed twice. Replaced it and got tired of constant problems with the keyboard.
Got a Dell XPS 13", decided I was gonna ditch macOS due to hardware issues and switch to Linux. After fiddling forever with the trackpad and the fact that sometimes closing the lid did not sleep the machine. It became clear that I was too old for that stuff. Tried Windows with WSL as I need a Unix environment. It works but the IO is too slow. It's just a toy at this point to show people linux binaries working on windows.
Went ahead and bought a 2018 MBP. The 2018 keyboard were supposed to be fixed.
Guess what, my up arrow key just started failing. I'm thinking about moving to a farm.
My rule of thumb for laptops when you have an OS in mind: choose what the developers use. I run OpenBSD, so since I know that the OpenBSD developers use old ThinkPads, I get the best experience on an oldish ThinkPad. Suspend/resume and the trackpad (even gestures) work out of the box, without configuration, every time.
Got 2018 fully loaded MBP, keyboard is ok ( probably because I mostly use external one) but speakers stopped working after 0.5year :/ another trip to apple store.
You basically need 2x MBP - one is constantly being repaired...
There's so many possible issues that I have to baby the machine & live in constant fear:
* keyboard keys getting stuck - [0]
* USB-C ports wearing out [1]
* stage light issue [2]
[0] - https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-m...
[1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/9l5gno/usbc_por...
[2] - https://9to5mac.com/2019/01/22/macbook-pro-stage-light/
For a supposed Pro machine that costs $$$$, this machine was not designed well.
- Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8250U CPU @ 1.60GHz, 1800 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
- 8 Gb memory (enough for me)
No complaints so far
Although the only thing I'm missing is charging via USB-C (which it has but cannot use for charging). Everything else is excellent: the screen is beautiful, battery life is in the 10 hours range, the aluminium body is quite tough, and it doesn't get hot.
I was in a similar situation as you. And I looked at the alternatives but came back to Apple. I upgraded from a 2012 model.
It has taken me about 6 months to get used to the keyboard but other than that it is a truly excellent machine.
i7-8750H, 1tb ssd, 4k screen, 32gb ram (really good for dev stuff). The screen is also excellent: you don't appreciate it until you've got it, but it's actually usable in bright sunlight. And the battery is huge; near the tsa limit for how much lithium you can bring on a plane.
Before that I had a Dell XPS 15 where the battery overheated and bloomed up to the point of destroying the chassis and touchpad. Needless to say, that wasn't great.