Is there any data on mgs of nicotine versus use in the last 30 days? Are people using 0mg juice considered tobacco users by this study? From what I can see, they are.
Surprisingly, as cliche as it sounds, there is a subset of those people that will enjoy these 0mg nicotine and no alcohol beers after overcoming their addiction because they simply like the taste.
Just anecdata, but I have vaped 0mg nicotine while helping a friend decide what flavors to buy in bulk while at a vaping convention. All the juice makers have it in stock. Whether that's because there's actually demand or if that's a best practice or legal cushion is another question.
because smoking addiction is largely psychological
smoking a 0mg e-cig is as pleasing as smoking an e-cig loaded with nicotine. Speaking from personal experience of smoking over 10 years. Quit at some point for a few years, found out about e-cigs, made some 0mg juice myself, enjoyed it. Burned a few e-cigs and eventually bounced back to regular cigarettes. Smoked for a few years, then quit for good.
The pleasure of a cigarette is not in the effect that nicotine has, but more in the ritual, watching the smoke coming out your mouth, the burning sensation, the deeper inhalation.
Juul doesn't really create enough vapor to have a distinct flavor. If you do sub-ohm or use better quality devices that create more vapor you get amazing flavor as well. This can very well approximate the flavors of most candy and dessert products, along with satisfying that hand to mouth urge (Freud would say I have an oral fixation).
I switched from traditional fags to e-cigs a decade ago and there are quite a few diabetics on the ecig forums who use ecigs, instead of for nic replacement as a sugary dessert replacement with success.
For me, it’s an alternative to snacking. It allows me to have very sweet flavours without consuming overly sugary food, and so abate a craving. I also occasionally (once a month or so?) use 1.5mg nicotine juices for the high.
Note well: "tobacco use" is a umbrella term that includes e-cigarette use (with nicotine), since the nicotine in vape juice is derived from tobacco plants. Also note: "combustible tobacco product use" declined.
"Among high school students, during 2011–2018, no significant trend in the reported use of any tobacco product overall was observed (Figure 2). However, changes were observed for individual tobacco products over this period. A significant nonlinear increase in current e-cigarette use occurred from 2011 (1.5%) to 2018 (20.8%). During 2011–2018, significant linear declines in combustible tobacco product use (from 21.8% to 13.9%) and ≥2 tobacco product use (from 12.0% to 11.3%) occurred; by product type, significant linear declines occurred for cigars (from 11.6% to 7.6%), smokeless tobacco (from 7.9% to 5.9%), and pipe tobacco (from 4.0% to 1.1%). A significant nonlinear decline was observed for cigarettes (from 15.8% to 8.1%). A significant nonlinear change during 2011–2018 was observed for hookahs (from 4.1% to 4.1%).
Among middle school students, no significant change in use of any tobacco product overall occurred during 2011–2018 (Figure 3). However, changes for individual tobacco products were observed. A significant nonlinear increase in e-cigarette use occurred (from 0.6% to 4.9%) during 2011–2018. A significant linear decline was observed for combustible tobacco product use (from 6.4% to 3.3%), ≥2 tobacco products use (from 3.8% to 2.4%), cigarettes (from 4.3% to 1.8%), cigars (from 3.5% to 1.6%), smokeless tobacco (from 2.7% to 1.8%), and pipe tobacco (from 2.2% to 0.3%); a significant nonlinear change occurred for hookah smoking (from 1.0% to 1.2%)."
Yeah, seems like a moral panic to me. If we smoked coffee, it’d probably be carcinogenic, that doesn’t mean that consuming it otherwise is an “epidemic.”
Thanks for the link. If I'm understanding this correctly, we could say that _actual_ tobacco use by minors has decrease by roughly half in 7 years, with a slight over all increase in nicotine use by minors.
This sounds like an improvement to me. Also, categorization of e-cigarettes as tobacco products, and the way that their use rate in minors is not explicitly reported separately from tobacco seems incoherent if not suspicious to me. If reporting actual rate of e-cigarette use were one's real goal, it would make far more sense to report it _alone_ instead of combined with tobacco.
Tobacco and smoking cessation products are effectively regulated cartels. I quit smoking years ago, using nicotine patches, which I noticed were made by GlaxoSmithKline. Other nicotine delivery vehicles seemed strangely un-competive considering that nicotine is cheap enough to spray as an insecticide. Generics existed, but they were hard to buy and surprisingly inferior. I belive these are regulated medical products and subject to patent; at any rate, I only ever saw generic nic patches at Wal-mart, and they were bad to use, and still pretty expensive. So for practical purposes it cost $100-$200 a month for patches, about the same as a few cartons of cigarettes. These products always had a peculiar way of costing a just a little more then a similar supply of cigarettes, even as the price/tax regime of tobacco changed by an integer factor over time and space. If I recall correctly, GSK turned out to own shares in Altria (might have been the other way around?).
In so far as E-cigarettes are a threat to incumbents, I would expect them to lobby aggressively to have them similarly regulated, taxed, and finally, priced. I suspect this is at least partly behind the sensation and obfuscated statistics surrounding vape use.
I know first hand that nicotine is viciously addictive. One of the reasons I quit is that I knew I was being farmed. Consider that Altria is famed as "dividend aristocrat". I would expect an aggressive campaign to prevent disruption of that market, or fold it into the extant cartel.
That classification is so dishonest. The anti-vaping ads I see already do their best to pretend the dangers of tobacco and e-cigs are the same without directly saying it (because of course they aren’t).
It’s so crazy how much effort there is behind attempting to smear ecigs as being the same as tobacco. (I don’t use either one)
Yup, kids love their Juul. Smoking is uncool, but Juuling is what all the kids are doing. Arguably it's creating worse nicotine addicts that cigarettes ever did.
As someone who has been addicted to both, I'll say that the Juul wasn't as big a psychological torment as cigarettes.
With the Juul, you can almost honestly say you're enjoying the experience.
With a cigarette your mouth taste terrible, it burns your throat/sinuses, and you only get the nicotine 'high' which is, at best, an abatement of nicotine withdrawal symptoms.
So when I kept smoking cigarettes "against my will" it was really confusing and maddening.
23 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 60.1 ms ] threadsmoking a 0mg e-cig is as pleasing as smoking an e-cig loaded with nicotine. Speaking from personal experience of smoking over 10 years. Quit at some point for a few years, found out about e-cigs, made some 0mg juice myself, enjoyed it. Burned a few e-cigs and eventually bounced back to regular cigarettes. Smoked for a few years, then quit for good.
The pleasure of a cigarette is not in the effect that nicotine has, but more in the ritual, watching the smoke coming out your mouth, the burning sensation, the deeper inhalation.
"Among high school students, during 2011–2018, no significant trend in the reported use of any tobacco product overall was observed (Figure 2). However, changes were observed for individual tobacco products over this period. A significant nonlinear increase in current e-cigarette use occurred from 2011 (1.5%) to 2018 (20.8%). During 2011–2018, significant linear declines in combustible tobacco product use (from 21.8% to 13.9%) and ≥2 tobacco product use (from 12.0% to 11.3%) occurred; by product type, significant linear declines occurred for cigars (from 11.6% to 7.6%), smokeless tobacco (from 7.9% to 5.9%), and pipe tobacco (from 4.0% to 1.1%). A significant nonlinear decline was observed for cigarettes (from 15.8% to 8.1%). A significant nonlinear change during 2011–2018 was observed for hookahs (from 4.1% to 4.1%).
Among middle school students, no significant change in use of any tobacco product overall occurred during 2011–2018 (Figure 3). However, changes for individual tobacco products were observed. A significant nonlinear increase in e-cigarette use occurred (from 0.6% to 4.9%) during 2011–2018. A significant linear decline was observed for combustible tobacco product use (from 6.4% to 3.3%), ≥2 tobacco products use (from 3.8% to 2.4%), cigarettes (from 4.3% to 1.8%), cigars (from 3.5% to 1.6%), smokeless tobacco (from 2.7% to 1.8%), and pipe tobacco (from 2.2% to 0.3%); a significant nonlinear change occurred for hookah smoking (from 1.0% to 1.2%)."
— https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6806e1.htm
This sounds like an improvement to me. Also, categorization of e-cigarettes as tobacco products, and the way that their use rate in minors is not explicitly reported separately from tobacco seems incoherent if not suspicious to me. If reporting actual rate of e-cigarette use were one's real goal, it would make far more sense to report it _alone_ instead of combined with tobacco.
Tobacco and smoking cessation products are effectively regulated cartels. I quit smoking years ago, using nicotine patches, which I noticed were made by GlaxoSmithKline. Other nicotine delivery vehicles seemed strangely un-competive considering that nicotine is cheap enough to spray as an insecticide. Generics existed, but they were hard to buy and surprisingly inferior. I belive these are regulated medical products and subject to patent; at any rate, I only ever saw generic nic patches at Wal-mart, and they were bad to use, and still pretty expensive. So for practical purposes it cost $100-$200 a month for patches, about the same as a few cartons of cigarettes. These products always had a peculiar way of costing a just a little more then a similar supply of cigarettes, even as the price/tax regime of tobacco changed by an integer factor over time and space. If I recall correctly, GSK turned out to own shares in Altria (might have been the other way around?).
In so far as E-cigarettes are a threat to incumbents, I would expect them to lobby aggressively to have them similarly regulated, taxed, and finally, priced. I suspect this is at least partly behind the sensation and obfuscated statistics surrounding vape use.
I know first hand that nicotine is viciously addictive. One of the reasons I quit is that I knew I was being farmed. Consider that Altria is famed as "dividend aristocrat". I would expect an aggressive campaign to prevent disruption of that market, or fold it into the extant cartel.
It’s so crazy how much effort there is behind attempting to smear ecigs as being the same as tobacco. (I don’t use either one)
Interesting article from a short while back on the topic: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/14/the-promise-of...
With the Juul, you can almost honestly say you're enjoying the experience.
With a cigarette your mouth taste terrible, it burns your throat/sinuses, and you only get the nicotine 'high' which is, at best, an abatement of nicotine withdrawal symptoms.
So when I kept smoking cigarettes "against my will" it was really confusing and maddening.