I'm not so sure that the market really demands large cars.
If you go to a new car dealer looking for a small car you will find they have some excuse why the only small cars they have are used -- the factory that made them got washed out in a storm or something.
They'll tell you it is no problem because you can get $5000 or more off a huge vehicle.
E.g. it's clear to me that automakers are hell bent on selling big vehicles, not so clear that it is what consumers really want.
I owned an Elantra and I am not a fan. (Just the scheduled maintenance for the first 100,000 miles is expensive, and I was getting a $200 or so repair bill every month for the last few months with my Elantra)
American dealerships have always tried to talk people out of buying a small car, even at times when there have been great American small cars such as the Neon at the end of it's run or the current Chevy Sonic.
Lately I have been getting this treatment from Honda and Toyota dealerships too. Nissan Sentras are available but I don't want to drive a Sentra.
See, I've had the exact opposite experience here in Canada.
My family owns a range of Hyundai cars (Elentra -> Sonata, Veolster -> Kona, Santa Fe -> Palisade when it releases) and all those cars have been driven to ~100-200k each. The most we've ever paid is $200/yr for the yearly service (apart from tire cost) + $150 / 2 yrs for interior + HVAC cleaning (for that new car smell).
I've never had a bad experience at the Hyundai dealership (can't say the same for Kia, Nissan and Ford).
Every single thing else (maintenance, oil change etc.) was included when I got my car (for 8 yrs or 200k km).
Oh man! I love how climate change pushers (not saying I don't believe in Climate Change - I do) love to point at something we can do to matter about CC. I feel even if every. single. person. on the planet works towards CC improvement, it'd not matter as much as improvements in commercial transportation - trucks, ships and airplanes - all of which if we seriously tackle, will raise price of our current QoL by such a massive amount that no one wants to deal with so it's easier to just point at consumer habits.
Drive a truck. Enjoy your life. It's too short to matter in the long run. But do be contentious about your consumption when doing so. Think about others (if not your kids' future, other people's future).
Disclaimer: I love cars and driving (going on a 7 day driving road trip in a few weeks) but I'm a bit tired of CC pushing me to change my lifestyle for changes that have minimal impact from the looks of it but my QoL keeps getting worse.
The scenarios for humanity are quite grim if climate change isn't addressed in a major coordinated effort in the next few years.
Water scarcity, the death of _all_ coral reefs, sea-level cities everywhere being flooded, massive species die-offs (including ones crucial to human survival, like pollinating insects), oceanic fisheries collapse. . . with more severe scenarios seeing the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of South Asia becoming uninhabitable.
Avoiding this scenario is going require every intervention, large and small, that humanity can muster. This is serious stuff. There's a reason that climatologists sound like doomsday prophets these days.
And part of any successful effort is combating the selfishness and denial of the average person. So pardon me if I'm somewhat unsympathetic to your attitude of self-interested helplessness - "Drive a truck. Enjoy your life. It's too short to matter in the long run." We're literally concerned with the fates of hundreds of millions of human beings here.
> And part of any successful effort is combating the selfishness and denial of the average person
Does that include people in the developing world having far too many children? Anything we do in the developed world will be utterly swamped by global population growth.
The UN said the same in 1990s. So forgive me if I'm unsympathetic when everyone screams doomsday. There is absolutely nothing you can do today in your personal life that'll matter at a scale to impact the global issue of climate change.
You want real change? Fine, let's work together to ensure that companies and corporations are held accountable for their emissions, reduce population in areas most impacted and stop the hyperbole. Climate change is real. It's here. and hyperbole is not going to save us. It didn't in the 90s and it's not now.
The sad bit is, those 100s of millions will die none the less so you can have your grande caramel macchiato in a non-recyclable cup instead of making coffee at home and using a mug. Excessive consumerism had a massive hand in leading us to this point, and now consumerism is trying to sell us the cure in the name of zero emission cars and expensive recyclable crap? Spare me the hypocrisy.
I have a 4 cylinder, rear-wheel drive pickup truck from that gets pretty good mpg and has a 6" truck bed. It's been invaluable when having to move anything. If I had the option to buy an electric one at my price point, I would have. Much of the CC-causing pollution from transportation is caused by semi trucks. You can try to consider how your purchases incur transportation needs, but until those trucks stop burning gas, it'll continue to be a problem.
There's not really a whole lot of electric trucks on the market (at the time I bought mine three years ago, IIRC there was one early 2000s Silverado hybrid model), and there's a ridiculous 25% tariff on imported light trucks. [0] As others have pointed out, manufacturers are not interested in making smaller vehicles. I think they would be popular because having a truck (or having a friend that has a truck) can make several situations a lot easier.
One thing I've done (that you can do too!) that's way better for an individual person to help combat climate change is to switch to a plant-based diet. [1]
13 paragraphs, and only one has a justifiable reason anyone should give a shit what anyone else drives - fuel economy.
I don't have a truck. I don't get the appeal. It would be totally impractical for my life. I think it's a stupid purchase for people who don't do work that requires a truck. But I'm not their Dad or anything, so I don't really bother myself with their choices.
This article is just the author telling me about himself, it says nothing about trucks nor their drivers.
> only one has a justifiable reason anyone should give a shit what anyone else drives - fuel economy.
I give a shit about what other people drive. I hate trucks with a passion because they are: bigger, taller, heavier, slower, and handle poorly. They are dangerous for other road users for all those reasons.
Larger vehicles do a disproportionate amount of wear and tear on road surfaces. Another strike against trucks.
Lastly (aside from fuel economy), they're likely to be lifted or have accessories like tow mirrors on trucks that never tow a thing. Trucks are stupid, impractical garbage boxes for the vast majority of people who own them __in urban areas__. I freaking hate trucks.
Preachiness and statistical weasel-language aside, the author is correct. I have a beat-up longbed ram 1500, and my usage statistics look pretty close to the ones cited. I bought this truck because I work on cars, and a handful of times I'll do something that no smaller vehicle could do (towing, hauling many tons of metal, etc). But mostly, it chugs gas like it's going out of style and forces me to avoid even attempting to park in downtown seattle.
That said, my favorite parts of the truck have less to do with raw power or hauling, and more to do with the "always on" parts of the truck owner costume. (The author's point about "all cars are drag" really resonates with me).
1) Cabin room. The bench seat in my truck is effectively a couch. I'm a heavy guy, and while I have no trouble fitting in something compact like a VW Golf, the truck is a different experience. It's the only class of vehicle where I feel that I have room to stretch my legs a little, literally. The bench seat doubles as a cargo space and lets me haul more fragile things with my arm around them, which I do considerably more often. The Dashboard shape and UI is straightforward and uncluttered, there's no bulky center console or strange contours the way you'd find in a modern vehicle. It's roomy in a way that goes beyond utility, and into more of a mental feeling of unrestrictedness that I really enjoy. It's more like a living room than a cockpit. I have found no other class of vehicle that does this. If I could get a BMW 3 series with the interior proportions of a 2008 pickup, I would be very interested.
2) Similar to that cognitive effect, I find that one of my favorite parts of owning a truck is the idea of "the answer's always yes".
It's a constant surplus of optionality. If I find a cool piece of furniture, someone's giving away something interesting at the office or on the side of the road, there are various "once in a lifetime" or just "right place right time" things I'm always allowed to consider. I say no to most of these anyway, because they're silly regardless of whether you can actually pull off the logistics. But the times I've said yes have come close to paying for the truck with just the cash value of what I've picked up. When this is good, it's really good. Having a crappier truck helps too. I beat the hell out of it with no remorse. Scratched the paint loading a grill the other day. Glanced to assess the damage, moved on. That's what I bought it for. This isn't truck exclusive, but it's peaceful.
3) Being "that friend with a truck" is kinda nice. Sure it's a pain in the ass to be asked, and worse, expected, to help with so-and-so's move by some coworker you've hardly ever spoken to. But many of my more urban friends are really kind and generous to me in ways that better suit their ways of life – inviting me to events or consulting on hipster things that are out of my wheelhouse. I feel like a bit of a misfit sometimes, since my hobbies and ambitions are decidedly more redneck than most of my friends. So I appreciate that I have something from the other side that I can offer in return. Junk removal especially – random crap piling up seems to be a legitimate stressor on a lot of my friends and their relationships. Pulling off a dump run is a big feat for them, and it's simple for me to do for free. I'm amused by how grateful some of these people are. You'd think I paid for their kid's college when all I did was make a chair disappear. This dynamic probably disappears in rural america, but it's nice in a big city.
---
If I had to do it over, I'd buy a smaller truck, like a vintage tacoma or raptor. If this size of truck comes back, electric or otherwise, I think there's a lot of demand.
As car sharing gets really good, this might get easier. Sure I can rent a pickup from home depot for $20/hr, but that r...
Being "that friend with a truck" is kinda nice. Sure it's a pain in the ass to be asked, and worse, expected, to help with so-and-so's move by some coworker you've hardly ever spoken to.
I hate being that friend with a truck.
Moving furniture for a barely-know-them coworker is bad enough, but when they don't bring help and expect you to haul their heavy ass table up flights of steps. Yeah, no.
> ...but when they don't bring help and expect you to haul their heavy ass table up flights of steps. Yeah, no.
Imagine being the friend with the F250 and a powerlifter...I get asked to help move all the time and some expect me to help move furniture because, as they sometimes jokingly say, "you like to move heavy objects in your spare time anyway"...
I personally hate trucks and think that we should disincentivize them (here in USA) by adding a federal fee on them to counteract their terrible gas mileage and the wear and tear they induce on roadways.
Trucks are simply terrible for traffic. In LA, I see a huge amount of base model trucks that have been outfitted with tow mirrors and lift kits, just to sit in traffic and commute to a non-manual-labor job. It's offensive and wasteful. A smaller crossover would be far more practical. Trucks are also much larger and heavier and therefore more dangerous for other road users. As a motorcyclist, I freaking hate their stupid tow mirrors sticking out into the next damn lane. They're dangerous to people around them.
They look terrible and have terrible fuel economy. And lastly, most aren't even useful. If you've got the standard truck with a 6-foot bed, what the hell do you even have a truck for? Trucks are for hauling things. Like motorcycles, cement, sheets of plywood, etc. If you're not actually using a truck for what they're intended for, why do you own a truck? Sorry, I meant finance on an 84-month loan.
If you don't use it for hauling or offroading, you're just a (P|L)oser. Drive a lifted truck and don't offroad? Poser. Got light bars, skid plates, and push bars and don't offroad? That's some mighty fine overcompensation you got there, mall crawler. Purposefully modded your exhaust so you can "roll coal"? You're an asshole and also a pathetic loser. Tow mirrors when you don't even have a trailer? Poser.
Truck nuts? Actually, whatever. They're silly imo, but that's about it. If you're thinking about a truck, get a goddamn crossover and put your ruler away.
19 comments
[ 5.5 ms ] story [ 36.1 ms ] threadIf you go to a new car dealer looking for a small car you will find they have some excuse why the only small cars they have are used -- the factory that made them got washed out in a storm or something.
They'll tell you it is no problem because you can get $5000 or more off a huge vehicle.
E.g. it's clear to me that automakers are hell bent on selling big vehicles, not so clear that it is what consumers really want.
I do know that the American car manufacturers are looking to stop making smaller cars though.
I owned an Elantra and I am not a fan. (Just the scheduled maintenance for the first 100,000 miles is expensive, and I was getting a $200 or so repair bill every month for the last few months with my Elantra)
American dealerships have always tried to talk people out of buying a small car, even at times when there have been great American small cars such as the Neon at the end of it's run or the current Chevy Sonic.
Lately I have been getting this treatment from Honda and Toyota dealerships too. Nissan Sentras are available but I don't want to drive a Sentra.
My family owns a range of Hyundai cars (Elentra -> Sonata, Veolster -> Kona, Santa Fe -> Palisade when it releases) and all those cars have been driven to ~100-200k each. The most we've ever paid is $200/yr for the yearly service (apart from tire cost) + $150 / 2 yrs for interior + HVAC cleaning (for that new car smell).
I've never had a bad experience at the Hyundai dealership (can't say the same for Kia, Nissan and Ford).
Every single thing else (maintenance, oil change etc.) was included when I got my car (for 8 yrs or 200k km).
Drive a truck. Enjoy your life. It's too short to matter in the long run. But do be contentious about your consumption when doing so. Think about others (if not your kids' future, other people's future).
Disclaimer: I love cars and driving (going on a 7 day driving road trip in a few weeks) but I'm a bit tired of CC pushing me to change my lifestyle for changes that have minimal impact from the looks of it but my QoL keeps getting worse.
Water scarcity, the death of _all_ coral reefs, sea-level cities everywhere being flooded, massive species die-offs (including ones crucial to human survival, like pollinating insects), oceanic fisheries collapse. . . with more severe scenarios seeing the Middle East, North Africa, and parts of South Asia becoming uninhabitable.
Avoiding this scenario is going require every intervention, large and small, that humanity can muster. This is serious stuff. There's a reason that climatologists sound like doomsday prophets these days.
And part of any successful effort is combating the selfishness and denial of the average person. So pardon me if I'm somewhat unsympathetic to your attitude of self-interested helplessness - "Drive a truck. Enjoy your life. It's too short to matter in the long run." We're literally concerned with the fates of hundreds of millions of human beings here.
Does that include people in the developing world having far too many children? Anything we do in the developed world will be utterly swamped by global population growth.
You want real change? Fine, let's work together to ensure that companies and corporations are held accountable for their emissions, reduce population in areas most impacted and stop the hyperbole. Climate change is real. It's here. and hyperbole is not going to save us. It didn't in the 90s and it's not now.
The sad bit is, those 100s of millions will die none the less so you can have your grande caramel macchiato in a non-recyclable cup instead of making coffee at home and using a mug. Excessive consumerism had a massive hand in leading us to this point, and now consumerism is trying to sell us the cure in the name of zero emission cars and expensive recyclable crap? Spare me the hypocrisy.
There's not really a whole lot of electric trucks on the market (at the time I bought mine three years ago, IIRC there was one early 2000s Silverado hybrid model), and there's a ridiculous 25% tariff on imported light trucks. [0] As others have pointed out, manufacturers are not interested in making smaller vehicles. I think they would be popular because having a truck (or having a friend that has a truck) can make several situations a lot easier.
One thing I've done (that you can do too!) that's way better for an individual person to help combat climate change is to switch to a plant-based diet. [1]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
[1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/18/health/plant-based-diet-clima...
I don't have a truck. I don't get the appeal. It would be totally impractical for my life. I think it's a stupid purchase for people who don't do work that requires a truck. But I'm not their Dad or anything, so I don't really bother myself with their choices.
This article is just the author telling me about himself, it says nothing about trucks nor their drivers.
I give a shit about what other people drive. I hate trucks with a passion because they are: bigger, taller, heavier, slower, and handle poorly. They are dangerous for other road users for all those reasons.
Larger vehicles do a disproportionate amount of wear and tear on road surfaces. Another strike against trucks.
Lastly (aside from fuel economy), they're likely to be lifted or have accessories like tow mirrors on trucks that never tow a thing. Trucks are stupid, impractical garbage boxes for the vast majority of people who own them __in urban areas__. I freaking hate trucks.
That said, my favorite parts of the truck have less to do with raw power or hauling, and more to do with the "always on" parts of the truck owner costume. (The author's point about "all cars are drag" really resonates with me).
1) Cabin room. The bench seat in my truck is effectively a couch. I'm a heavy guy, and while I have no trouble fitting in something compact like a VW Golf, the truck is a different experience. It's the only class of vehicle where I feel that I have room to stretch my legs a little, literally. The bench seat doubles as a cargo space and lets me haul more fragile things with my arm around them, which I do considerably more often. The Dashboard shape and UI is straightforward and uncluttered, there's no bulky center console or strange contours the way you'd find in a modern vehicle. It's roomy in a way that goes beyond utility, and into more of a mental feeling of unrestrictedness that I really enjoy. It's more like a living room than a cockpit. I have found no other class of vehicle that does this. If I could get a BMW 3 series with the interior proportions of a 2008 pickup, I would be very interested.
2) Similar to that cognitive effect, I find that one of my favorite parts of owning a truck is the idea of "the answer's always yes".
It's a constant surplus of optionality. If I find a cool piece of furniture, someone's giving away something interesting at the office or on the side of the road, there are various "once in a lifetime" or just "right place right time" things I'm always allowed to consider. I say no to most of these anyway, because they're silly regardless of whether you can actually pull off the logistics. But the times I've said yes have come close to paying for the truck with just the cash value of what I've picked up. When this is good, it's really good. Having a crappier truck helps too. I beat the hell out of it with no remorse. Scratched the paint loading a grill the other day. Glanced to assess the damage, moved on. That's what I bought it for. This isn't truck exclusive, but it's peaceful.
3) Being "that friend with a truck" is kinda nice. Sure it's a pain in the ass to be asked, and worse, expected, to help with so-and-so's move by some coworker you've hardly ever spoken to. But many of my more urban friends are really kind and generous to me in ways that better suit their ways of life – inviting me to events or consulting on hipster things that are out of my wheelhouse. I feel like a bit of a misfit sometimes, since my hobbies and ambitions are decidedly more redneck than most of my friends. So I appreciate that I have something from the other side that I can offer in return. Junk removal especially – random crap piling up seems to be a legitimate stressor on a lot of my friends and their relationships. Pulling off a dump run is a big feat for them, and it's simple for me to do for free. I'm amused by how grateful some of these people are. You'd think I paid for their kid's college when all I did was make a chair disappear. This dynamic probably disappears in rural america, but it's nice in a big city.
---
If I had to do it over, I'd buy a smaller truck, like a vintage tacoma or raptor. If this size of truck comes back, electric or otherwise, I think there's a lot of demand.
As car sharing gets really good, this might get easier. Sure I can rent a pickup from home depot for $20/hr, but that r...
I hate being that friend with a truck.
Moving furniture for a barely-know-them coworker is bad enough, but when they don't bring help and expect you to haul their heavy ass table up flights of steps. Yeah, no.
Imagine being the friend with the F250 and a powerlifter...I get asked to help move all the time and some expect me to help move furniture because, as they sometimes jokingly say, "you like to move heavy objects in your spare time anyway"...
Trucks are simply terrible for traffic. In LA, I see a huge amount of base model trucks that have been outfitted with tow mirrors and lift kits, just to sit in traffic and commute to a non-manual-labor job. It's offensive and wasteful. A smaller crossover would be far more practical. Trucks are also much larger and heavier and therefore more dangerous for other road users. As a motorcyclist, I freaking hate their stupid tow mirrors sticking out into the next damn lane. They're dangerous to people around them.
They look terrible and have terrible fuel economy. And lastly, most aren't even useful. If you've got the standard truck with a 6-foot bed, what the hell do you even have a truck for? Trucks are for hauling things. Like motorcycles, cement, sheets of plywood, etc. If you're not actually using a truck for what they're intended for, why do you own a truck? Sorry, I meant finance on an 84-month loan.
If you don't use it for hauling or offroading, you're just a (P|L)oser. Drive a lifted truck and don't offroad? Poser. Got light bars, skid plates, and push bars and don't offroad? That's some mighty fine overcompensation you got there, mall crawler. Purposefully modded your exhaust so you can "roll coal"? You're an asshole and also a pathetic loser. Tow mirrors when you don't even have a trailer? Poser.
Truck nuts? Actually, whatever. They're silly imo, but that's about it. If you're thinking about a truck, get a goddamn crossover and put your ruler away.