Ask HN: I am depressed. Should I take this PhD fellowship?

9 points by BrightMelon ↗ HN
I am 26 and I have been depressed for the last 6 years of my life. I have been working on this by doing psychotherapy among other things. Last year I moved to Germany in order to work as a software engineer (me asking for advice before doing that[0]). Recently I was offered a 3 year Marie Curie fellowship to become a PhD student with focus on geometry processing. Here are my pros and cons.

Pros:

- Currently I believe that I would be much more interested in doing research than continue working as a software engineer. I really like the idea of trying to solve problems that have not been solved and contributing to (open) science.

- Financially the fellowship is so good that I would earn the same amount of money as my current job. In addition I would not have any other obligations except research.

- The PhD city seems great and I would prefer to live there compared to the city I currently live in.

- I would be able to be a visiting researcher at great labs in cities I would like to visit.

Cons:

- I have been reading for the past weeks that mental health issues are quite common among PhD students[1]. Considering my mental state I am afraid that the PhD will break me mentally.

- I do not want to work in academia in the future. Ideally I would like to work remotely having a balance between research and coding (is this even possible?). This is my biggest concern, because it would not make sense to do it if it would not help me reach this goal.

- Doing a PhD takes a lot of commitment and I am unsure if I will still want to continue doing it in 2 years. If I eventually decided to drop out I would have wasted valuable resources of the scientific community and I do not like this.

- In a PhD you do not actually know where the finish line is. What if the three years pass, my fellowship ends and I have not finished?

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17081778

[1]: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-PhD-students-so-depressed

17 comments

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>> Considering my mental state I am afraid that the PhD will break me mentally.

It's huge risk. Almost nothing beats a good mental health, in my eyes.

Why do you feel the Phd is worth this risk ?

Because:

1)It would allow me to do research in a field that I find interesting.

2)It would allow me to build up my research skills, enabling me to later find a job that has this balance of research and coding which I mentioned in my post. As a note, I applied this year at 4 positions which had this balance and all of them rejected me. After asking what my main disadvantage with the chosen candidate was all of them told me that he/she had a PhD in the field.

3)I would be able to see what I am capable of in solving interesting problems and expanding human knowledge.

4)I believe in general, that pushing your self to the limits (even if you fail) teaches you more compared to a comfortable situation. By that I do not obviously mean that one should put oneself in every situation that stresses him/her, but rather that one should attempt things even if they are difficult.

(comment deleted)
you can't get a research job (your goal) without a phd. the fellowship pays well, most depressed students are depressed because they are poor and hence locked in the (toxic) uni environment. and lastly, semi joking, you're already depressed, so worst you will continue, but hopefully the change will help it.

good luck! and start eating better, as it helps more than meds for some.

Get a life and friend group outside your work. Its trite but make a list of your hobbies and interests and identify ways to meet real people who share those interests. You were never taught this. Learn by doing. Start now. Paper and pen.
It's not that easy when you are clinically depressed. Sometimes you need something to cure the physical and biological aspects of depression before you can even consider having the mindset you need to "get a life and friend group".
> Ideally I would like to work remotely having a balance between research and coding (is this even possible?)

This is possible depending on the network of contacts you develop. And PhD programs and the conference circiut are a great place to meet interesting people.

Try taking CBD instead. My depression is almost cured because of it. It helped when prescription meds didn't.
I think taking any advice given here isn't a good idea. No one understands your mental state or the root cause of your depression, and further no one here is likely to be a trained mental health professional. Given your current state of mind, I think it's important to have real conversations with real people in the program and otherwise. Potentially see if you can get some time with a current student in the program or with a trusted advisor.

Based on your list, there doesn't seem to be any real downsides to taking the fellowship and pursuing a PhD. If you drop out, I wouldn't necessarily see it as wasting anything. You learn valuable skills in a PhD that are certainly transferable. The age old advice for pursuing research is only do it if you're interested in it.

I know three people who have done a phd. One quit in the last year and the other two said the last year was the hardest they have ever worked. However they were all in the humanities rather than the sciences. They said it's what you should do to work in academia as a career. Note that a great many good university teachers and researchers are doing part time PhDs instead of getting their doctorate first.

I've considered it but the last year was hell for them and I don't want to do that, neither do I want to be in academia as a career.

Whether your PhD fuels your depression and becomes incredibly difficult or it's awesome largely depends on your supervisor.

It is relatively easy to spot supervisors that are simply rent seekers vs real researchers.

The former will typically have an enormous amount of students and will publish an impossible amount of publications per year.

If you need more tailored advice, you can find my email in my profile. I would not discard the PhD option just because of your current health status. In fact, a good PhD may leave you ample freedom, and that might be good to work on your issues.

I met with the professor yesterday and a post-doc with which I will have the closest relationship. My impression was good, although they seemed very worried about the case I declined and they would need to find another candidate. Furthermore I asked two previous PhD students of theirs which are not at this university anymore and they both spoke in high regard for both the professor and the post-doc. I can also tell that their research is top. As mentioned in my post I would like to be able to work remotely in the future. Having a remote position is to me even more important compared to doing research (although a combination of those two would be ideal). I am worried about whether doing a PhD can prohibit me from achieving that, since I will be gaining a lot of research experience but I will lack programming experience (especially commercial programming experience). Am I overthinking it?
IMHO, you are overthinking it. If it looks good, go for it.
Any decision you are making in your current state right now will be biased.

My advice after tutoring 4 Phds.

Choose the mentor not the field or program.

If you have a good mentor/professor it will make a big difference. You can even work in "botanic" (non-related field) but he will find a way to make you useful. And being useful is 70% of curing depression. We need to feel useful.

Check which professors are friendly and have time to real meet with you and talk to you.

I choose mine based on that, some people laugh he was not an start and that he loved star trek too much. Only me and other student finished ON TIME our Phds.

Hello! Academic mathematician here. Some thoughts --

- I definitely second the advice to seek the advice of a mental health professional, as well as people in the academic program in which you're thinking about enrolling.

- There are indeed mental health issues in academia. However, in mathematics at least, most of the students I knew seemed to enjoy their experience. Certainly I did.

If you don't want to work in academia, that might help with the mental health issues. A major source of stress is that there are fewer academic jobs available than people who want them. This is something you wouldn't have to worry about.

- The finish line will probably be wherever you find yourself in three years. It is typical, and healthy, for PhD students to have tons of goals and to accomplish only a few of them. A good advisor can help you set realistic goals, and help you figure out a timeline for achieving them.

- In my opinion, dropping out is okay if that's what you decide to do later.

- If you enroll, I'd recommend keeping reasonable hours in the lab (don't work for anyone who expects you to keep insane hours in the lab). Also, the standard advice: eat healthy, get exercise, get outside your university periodically, keep up a hobby or two.

Good luck!

How manageable is your depression now? Does it relapse often? What triggers relapses? If your PhD field, or city, or mentor is a probable relapse trigger then it's better to avoid this path. If your depression is under control now with medications and counselling then why not?
It is manageable and I do not get in this state anymore where I get paralyzed by it. Almost always my mood deteriorates when I need to take a decision, since this causes me a lot of stress. I cannot say if the field or the city would stress me. The mentor seems quite relaxed and easy going.