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Ask HN: Do You Cuss in Meetings?

10 points by paulriddle ↗ HN
Something I've noticed is that if nobody cusses and tries to be professional then it means that meetings are going to be boring, filled with anxiety and generally have dense atmosphere. Because certain essential emotional realms are not explored. If swearing is a big deal, then most likely there isn't much genuine laughter as well, people are afraid to speak up, no criticism, no valuable feedback, engineers are easily intimidated by the higher ups into tighter deadlines, no comradery, etc.

It is such a good heuristics that I'm tempted to conclude that no cussing means a room filled with losers. I don't mean gross language, I mean something like occasional fuck here and there.

I'm Russian, and this is the experience I have with Russian people, but I think it also applies to American and European cultures. In general Russian people are more emotionally reserved, and the language doesn't help either, because there are no equivalent words for "you" and "guys".

I think cursing is some kind of mental barrier. If it is not broken, then there is an array of social problems that most likely will remain unsolved. It's kind of like first sex in a relationship, if you don't have it early then the relationship will probably go sour. I've seen entire room go dumb to almost comical level and be unable to decide whether the task is going to take 1.5 days or 2 days, as if that mattered at all. Because of bad emotional energy, engineers were afraid to say 2, because then there is a question why not 1.5 or even 1, but it's not really a question, it's pressure and intimidation. Explaining why in honest terms even without cursing is not within the domain of acceptable things to say.

I know it sounds weird. It's just that there are vastly different meetings, some are productive and positive where cursing is not a big deal, and some are a game of trying to save face and look good, without there being any need to do so.

17 comments

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justforfunhere
It really depends on person to person. I have had teammates who's vocabulary would be quite colorful even in normal life. These were the people who would be more prone to cussing during meetings.

There were others whom I have never heard mention any cuss words ever. Those people would not do it in a meeting, whatever the situation.

I have had a superior who used to cuss a lot during meetings. It didn't make anyone comfortable because people were not used to hearing such language outside meetings. The new joiners in the team would feel uneasy, especially those that were just out of college.

So it really depends on the context, the people participating in the meeting and the agenda of the meeting.

Spooky23
It is a tool like any other. I find that some colorful language can loosen up a room. It can also intimidate people or create other problems.

You have to know your environment.

paulriddle
Basically what I'm saying is that most environments where cussing isn't allowed are diseased. Also, I failed to mention that I don't mean negative or angry cussing at all, only positive that leads to laughter, awe, inspiration, feelings of pride, satisfaction, and so on. So somebody berating someone is not what I had in mind.
sloaken
Yes I cuss at meetings. Not a lot. You know an occasional 'damn' or 'shit'. But I also know that using fowl language is the sign of limited vocabulary. And thus a reflection that I am not as smart as I should be.

Kids curse a lot because of 2 reasons: 1) they are trying to get attention (usually subconsciously) 2) limited vocabulary.

Of course a lot of this has to do with volume and if the language is directed at anyone. 'You stupid sshl' Is a lot different than 'be careful of the sshls out there'. Or 'Damn that hurt' vs 'Damn you'.

mrits
It's not a sign of a limited vocabulary.
paulriddle
This is bad way to curse, I don't like it and think it is malicious to the environment because it is stifled. I mean bold loud cursing with swag, kind of like giving a motivational talk.

Mumbling stuff to yourself is cringy. My definition of good cursing: if it was recorded on video and put on 4chan, would those people think that you're a boss or a lame soyboy.

I don't even think that cursing is required and you're making a good point about vocabulary. I want to have rich vocabulary. But then again there are people like, for example, from the rationalist community, and they sound like a scientific paper.

k4ch0w
I think too much is bad and a sign of immaturity. However, whenever you feel like you can use them it implies you feel close and safe enough with the other people to do it. I swear with my team only because I think you need to be as open as possible with them and sometimes the only way to describe the mess you are in is a f*.
paulriddle
Yeah. When you don't feel close and safe, it's bad, it means there is a problem. It means there is no trust and it is going to slow everybody down, make less intelligent and efficient, and the company is going to lose money.
vkaku
I used to cuss a lot. But I realized that cussing just helps me feel a bit better - and does not solve the problem at hand.

I also realized that cussing makes some people feel worse than they normally would, and it ruins long-term productivity and relationships.

So I stopped cussing.

paulriddle
I hink you are wrong to blame cussing here, it's mostly about emotions. If you were cussing from a place of frustration or complaining, then of course it would make people feel worse. Even without cussing. But if it helps you think more positively then it's good.
marktangotango
This is HR realm stuff, if one person is offended then it’s wrong, ie indefensible from a harassment in the workplace standpoint. I don’t agree with this necessarily but that’s the reality in the USA.

Personally I have no problem with coarse vulgar language, even so far as insults and abuse. If done well it can be beautiful even. But then I went through army basic training so I’m inured to it (I enjoy Linus rants for example). I don’t use it though.

beatgammit
No, I try to never cuss because I don't feel like it's useful. A large part of it is because of the culture of the area where I currently live, but I never really understood the point of cussing even though I grew up in an area where cussing was common.

- when I'm mad, cussing won't improve things - when I want to lighten the mood, I could make any variety of joke - when I want to emphasize something, I use the tone of my voice or appropriate vocab

I guess I've just never understood the point of it. I occasionally cuss to myself, but I try to be a bit more expressive when I'm talking with others.

So yeah, I never cuss in meetings, and I very rarely cuss in general.

paulriddle
The point of cussing is to add emotional color. Remember that and don't judge people who cuss in a cool way. They don't judge you for being dry or uptight. As an example of how useful cussing can be, imagine that you want to critisize your manager for being unpersonable. Calling him fuckface, a dick, an asshole, to his face would help. If you can't do it, there likely a huge problem in your relationships, or it simply isn't your communication style. But if it is and you can do it, it has power. Good vibes when critisizing.

Now I overthink this whole thing and went too deep in my comments, failing to do it fluently. I still belive cussing is an important tool in communication, and if it is frowned upon to cuss in a room, then I doubt it is a room filled with winners. They are concerned with superficial instead of essential and lack emotional intelligence.

quickthrower2
You might be on to something. But I work somewhere that has good laughter but not much cussing. I’ve also worked somewhere where the culture is the higher ups cuss but the lower level people didn’t, there was almost a status about it. So it varies, but I think the underlying point is can people be free to be themselves, or are they anxious about what the company thinks of them.
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dmitripopov
It's only good if it goes naturally. You know how it happens - somebody occasionally swears and in a minute everybody in the room is swearing, even baby doll - alike girls. When forced swearing brings more emotional strain that it resolves.