Ask HN: Do you feel Apple products have become too expensive?
I have been using primarily Apple equipment for the last 8 years. It is still my preferred hardware to work with. It was always on the premium side of things, but I still believe 999$ Macbook Air was the best offer on the market for a while.
Recently however, I feel like I do not get enough of Apple to warrant constantly and sharply rising prices, starting with iPhone breaking $1000 barrier.
How do you feel about it? Are you still getting enough bang for your buck?
43 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 79.6 ms ] threadYou also don’t have to buy an iMac Pro or a fully decked out MacBook Pro.
Apple has plenty of good mid priced hardware - except for the current unreliable keyboards on laptops.
It varies a lot. When I bought my 1st gen 27" 5K iMac it was cheaper than a premium 4K display (screen only) from some other manufacturers, that it out-performed just in terms of the display.
Timing with respect to the tech cycle makes a big difference. Apple hardware tends to maintain it's price point through it's life cycle more so than most, so if you buy shortly before a refresh you can certainly end up paying through the nose.
Then there's a synergy factor. Yes you can get a laptop with a comparable CPU and storage to an Air, but how good is the touchpad? Is the SSD as fast and on as good a bus? Does the display have as good a colour gamut and photographic fidelity? Is the keyboard – er – ok you got me on that one.
The Apple Lisa cost $10000 (in 1983 dollars, $25522 today).
A 512K "Fat Mac" Macintosh cost $3200 (in 1984 dollars, $7829 today).
20 pounds, 9" 1-bit 512x342 display, no hard drive. I think that also didn't include the 400k floppy drive. And it would only work when plugged in.
Those were a good deal back then because of the quality of the games and the things they let you do that you couldn't do before.
Expectations change uniquely when it comes to computers.
My MacBook Pro is generally a total joy to use for work (development). Both the software and hardware are fantastic.
My iPhone goes everywhere with me, and does more than I could ever have dreamed it would when I was younger.
Objectively, there are more powerful, affordable pieces of hardware you can buy, but I really appreciate the small touches and attention to detail that are typical of Apple products.
I also appreciate that I'm in a very privileged position to be able to use Apple stuff. It does cost a lot, and if you're on a budget the prices can definitely feel frustrating.
I dropped my MacBook Pro going through airport security 2 years ago and it still runs perfectly just with some dents. I recently bought a 32gb model and love it.
The pain points now are the software instability and general lack of polish. Also I am beginning to feel like Apple just doesn’t care about use lowly folks who believed in them when they were close to being extinct. They say they care at every WWDC but I’m still waiting for them to show it. I finally upgraded to 10.14 last week and it bricked my machine and I have to do an internet restore which took 15 hours to get back to a point I could reinstall my apps and data. The reason? APFS issues when blasting back from a disk image I keep with my stuff installed and ready to go. The Genius Bar wanted to replace my touchbar citing that as the issue for a disk error.....
Overall I’m still hanging in there but I have started working my daily tasks on an old Linux laptop and I’m very happy. Time will tell.
The way they have handled their keyboard design problem, bent iPads, too-short display cables etc is simply deceitful and unethical, that makes me less interested in dealing with them. I don't want to argue about hardware flaw repairs again and again over the life of a machine while it periodically disappears for a couple weeks until Apple finds legal justification to stop free keyboard repairs.
But mostly it seems like the Mac has come to a grinding halt. Four years to do a CPU bump on the Mini, two years for a CPU bump on the iMac, five years and counting for the Mac Pro. Rumor has it they maybe can show a prototype in a few months of the 2014 Mac Pro in anticipation of a 2020ish release lol.
We'll never know for sure, but they probably invest more on evading taxes than continued Mac development.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/world/apple-taxes-jersey....
I cannot believe I was into this company and their draconian practices all over the world. Why anyone would work for this company is a mystery to me. The sooner they die the better and this will happen..
- Price for similar spec PCs is almost 0.5X. 10 years back, one could argue that Macs offered better build quality and reliability, but not in 2019!
- Apple's slow creep into everything I do on my Mac and iPhone is unacceptable. Macs have been secure enough without the recently announced intention from Apple to prevent non-signed apps from running, in upcoming Mac OS releases. No sirre Bob, this is not about security, but greed from Apple to control execution of apps on a computer that I legally wholly own!
- Mac OS quality is consistently declining. From the password bug a year ago, to a string of software issues with High Sierra, it feels like Apple has let it's good down on software.
So no - it's rather buy a premium PC with much better specs and build quality, and run Linux on it, or even Windows 10 with WSL.
My next purchase will probably be a 5K iMac. Since LG seems to be the only reputable company selling a 5K monitor, I would be looking at $1200 for a monitor by itself. A $1799 5K iMac is s good deal.
I doubt that you would even find a PC equivalent of a MacBook Air for half the cost. Cheaper yes, but not half.
There was nothing more “secure” about the Mac than Windows except that no one bothered to write malware for it.
Root password bugs, data loss in APFS, goto fail, etc.... these are all unacceptable issues.
I recently upgraded my iPhone, but I'm going to start thinking about alternatives and planning toward decreasing reliance on the ecosystem.
Overall, for the quality of the hardware, ease of use and quality support I have always gotten from Apple, I am a customer for life. I value ease of use and design above everything, so I would never switch to windows, Linux or android (cue the hate but you must admit, if nothing else Apple products are damn easy to use. If I have to spend 1 extra hour configuring something, or do anything cusom whatsoever that is unacceptable to me)
Things I value:
- Physically beautiful products with high build quality (2016+ MacBook keyboards notwithstanding), including the best displays and trackpads
- A business model oriented heavily around privacy and security
- iOS: the app ecosystem is second to none in terms of quality
- macOS: built on UNIX with a stable, aesthetically pleasing, and functional desktop environment
That said, where it makes sense I choose other products. Spotify is lightyears ahead of Apple Music and I spend accordingly.
I occasionally scope the landscape for alternatives and never come up with anything substantial. I absolutely don't want an Android phone, and any switching away from a MacBook would involve taking on a lot more friction in my day to day. I enjoy the occasional tryst with GNU/Linux but I don't want it to be my main driver, even if I could get a proper display and trackpad. Windows is entirely out of the question.
With Apple Watch and AirPods to round out the ecosystem, they've really got me captivated. It's hard to consider anything else because it's almost always the case that everything just doesn't work as well together.
I find the case on iphones to be too slippery, requiring you to cover it with another case. My android phone does not need a case and the phone wasnt that expensive so if I drop it, it isnt a big deal.
I find very annoying things like text messages to my wifes phone showing up on all apple devices. turning off the feature hasn't helped.
Apple periodically makes me reauthenticate to icloud on my macbook. However I have no other apple device so it sends the codes to my wife's phone. very annoying.
I used the first iphone but switched to android for my next phone because the iphone lacked T9 search which android had/has. The iphone still doesnt have T9 dialing. It matches letters/numbers in any portion of the name. This is helpful when I cant remember someones first or last name. It is also helpful when I have lots of people with the same name, but I know a portion of their actual #. It never takes me more than 3 taps to dial.
The iphone didnt have the capability to override calendar notifications. I use an app on android that lets me snooze reminders until an arbitrary number of minutes before the event (for me it is 2 minutes before). I started missing meetings constantly because of the lack of this function when I had an iphone.
Until recently the iphone didnt have the ability to take phone+conference bridge numbers and autodial the whole thing
I despise itunes. Something is always breaking causing me to lose music, to have to rebuy music, to reinstall the entire library from backup etc.
Getting pictures off the iphone is a nightmare. On android, you mount it as a drive and copy the images.
I do use a macbook as macosx has a *nix lineage.
iPhone water issues because of a person and a swimming pool :p
Never wanted anything of Apple since then because I was afraid all prices would rise too much and I think it did, for all "premium" products. I saw people buying it who can hardly afford it.
But since a long time, I think they don't give the bang for the buck also ( 2016).
I kept Windows and used Android. Touchbar, non-standard cables, Apple licenced accessories, ... None of that is worth it to me.
Phone = calling, sms, email and surfing ( some).
Tablet = x360 ( convertible laptop), a regular tablet is just for consuming. Not for producing
Development = Windows with Linux subsystem and Visual Studio.
I thought about an Apple mini as build controller, but didn't want to support it.
The first iPhone was $499. The iPhone 7 while three generations old, is still faster than all but the highest end Android phones and will probably 3 or 4 more years - $475
The original iPad was $499. The newest regular 9.7” iPad is $329
When I bought an “entry level” Mac LCII it was $2100 back in 1992 with the monitor. The lowest cost iMac that anyone should buy is $1699 - 21.5” iMac with 256Gb SSD and 16GB RAM.
The base level MacBook Air for $1199 is a perfectly good laptop.
Apple has never been the lowcost leader.
The laptops: I could imagine buying one in the future. Linux has its warts and I am very accustomed to developing on Unix these days. But the current line seems to have problems and the touch bar would have to go.
The MacBook Pro I use at work is nice enough, though I feel more of an eye-rolling irritation with its high-tech touch bar, paper-thin keyboard, and USB-C-only design than the sense of futuristic delight Apple must have been hoping for. I cannot see anything about it which comes close to justifying its $2800 price tag, and I would never consider buying one for myself.
Hardware performance outran my day-to-day needs a long time ago, so I am perfectly content with a $300-$400 second-hand laptop and a $250 phone. I have learned to take a sort of contrarian delight in the humble, rugged utilitarianism of a ThinkPad, and I recently got a phone with a QWERTY keyboard, because I'm tired of typing on glass and fighting with autocorrect. It's probably a good thing for the world that Apple keeps pushing the frontier of design forward, but I don't need to be along for that ride myself.
Little bits of shareware here and there.
With, of course, an annual upgrade cycle.
When I looked at why I was buying them, I realised it was more and more to merely replace Apple services with those that are more open.
I now use Windows and Android. Win 10 has a minimalist vibe to its UI that's a welcome relief from Apple's over-designed UX. A legacy of Apple's skeuomorphic approach which I always disliked.
I now have a very limited number of apps which I pay for. 5 I think. Compared to about 25 on Mac.
Otherwise I use freeware and open source. Yes the quality of these apps is not always so high. But they do the job, and I spend less time and money managing and upgrading them.
I'd prefer to use Linux of course, but am limited by some key apps such as DXO. Windows does the job.
The hardware is slightly cheaper but TCO is much cheaper for me.
Significantly, I do not use my personal machines for work. YMMV.
I skipped the upgrade to 2018 iPhone as the X was fast enough and did not see a difference in the new model.
The new macbook Air finally gives Retina, but I'm leary of the keyboard.
I truly dislike the gluing of batteries in the laptops and the soldering of ram and ssd's in their laptops as well. And Apple's ram pricing is highway robbery. I'm not sure what I will due when the Macbook Air ssd dies and I have to decide what personal laptop to buy.
The 2015 iPad Pro is a beast and was a great investment. After all this time, I have zero usage of the original Apple Pencil, which surprised me. The only disappointment is the failure around the keyboard/cover and the side connector which now complains about it, even if I switch one out. Beyond that, I think the Pro will maintain value for a long time from a performance standpoint.
Windows 10 (which I use at work) has, at a general level achieved parity with the Finder and window management. Browsers/Office 365/apps are much the same. Trackpads on windows machines suck (both Dell and HP Zbook).
I dislike the plastic feel of the windows laptops and their trackpads, but their cost for RAM and drive space is much cheaper than Apple. The cost differential for macos machines is out of alignment with the market. For now I don't have to worry, but when I do have to replace it is the purchase cost and hard lock-in on RAM and SSD size that are concerning.
Oh yeah, I got the pixel because there is no way I'm paying $1000 for a phone.
I dont see myself using an iPhone in future unless its a company phone that I don't purchase.
What I really like and feature I was not expecting at all, texting from my PC, really nice to able to do that.
I still like their operating systems better than the alternatives; but not sure the bar is all that high. They're increasingly buggy; new "features" are either zero use or detrimental to my workflows; and I find myself hanging on as much due to ecosystem lock-in as due to any particular desire to stick with Apple. (That said, I don't particularly want to deal with the privacy and security tightrope of using Android.)
Their hardware has totally gone down the drain. If I had the skillset to put the guts of a maxed out 2019 15" MBP into the chassis of my 2013 model (maybe with some extra room for more battery?), I'd do it in a heartbeat. If they sold that computer (or better, a 13" equivalent), money would be no object.
But literally everything external about the current model is a downgrade -- and I don't mean in some sort of consumer-y "it's not as pretty" way. I mean every single thing about the interface is worse. The touchpad was perfect; now it's too big. The keyboard was great; now it's fragile and barely usable. There used to be a function key row; now we have that touchbar bullshit. We used to have all the ports you could need, and a magsafe connector (with an extension cord!); now there's just a USB-C port or two and ALL THE DONGLES.
If I could buy a 4" iPhone with this year's CPU and RAM and camera specs and a goddamned headphone jack, I'd seriously consider it even at the enormous prices they're charging for the X. As it is, all the current phones are unusable to me, and I'll probably next end up with either a flip phone plus MP3 player or some weirdo thing off Kickstarter.
Apple removing MagSafe and the ports is just bonkers. I write code so I’d never use a touch bar. Replacing the ports with dongles surely helps them make a cheaper board but is shitty experience for everyone else. Making intentional efforts to reduce repairability from 1 to zero on a ten point scale is also hostile.
Love the OS and the attitude toward privacy but everything else sucks.
Have been running a Hackintosh for photo and video work for two years and while it’s stuck on an old macOS it still works and has plenty of power.
Don’t see myself touching any of the new laptops. May look into a Mac mini with external graphics but it’s so overpriced that buying it feels humiliating and exploitative.
I don't think that's a fair comparison with iPhone, since you are comparing the least expensive of a line with the most expensive. There are plenty of iPhone models to choose from, and they haven't abandoned the lower-cost tiers.
Check out the history of iPhone cost tiers here, they have only significantly expanded the upper end over time.
https://twitter.com/asymco/status/1040240778860146688?lang=e...
I used that machine for my photo library, for a big archival photo project with Aperture, for music recording with an Apogee Ensemble interface, for podcast production, for video production, to manage all my e-mail, to record and mix multi-track audio with Logic. I use a lot of command-line tools (via Homebrew, or compiling from sources).
From my perspective Snow Leopard was the high point of reliability and functionality. I liked the concept of my computer with multiple monitors as a media hub.
The way Apple has taken features away from successive versions of iMovie, and killed Aperture, and turned MacOS X increasingly into a walled garden, has been a huge turnoff for me. I have an old iPad and it's useful for watching videos and chatting on Twitter but I don't want or need iOS devices to _replace_ general-purpose computers. I didn't buy the cylinder Mac Pro because - call me crazy and old - I still want drive bays. I don't want to move all my work to a laptop (and as a guy who writes a LOT - hundreds of thousands of words a month - keyboard quality is pretty important to me). And I've never been interested in an iPhone.
I don't have any interest in keeping all my documents in the "cloud" (psssttt -- the cloud is just other people's computers!) And I want my own DRM-free media to live on my own computer's drives such that no one can shut down a service or discontinue support and take it away from me. I don't want to "subscribe" to apps, but that's another story.
Basically I'm no longer Apple's target audience, and it's frustrating. It's not really about cost for me, per se. It's about Apple's declining interest in the whole notion of general-purpose computers as open and unrestricted tools for creative people and allowing them to own and store their own files. I'm curious for the promised next-generation Mac Pro but I'm not too hopeful.