Sure, there is discrimination everywhere. Basically, lots and lots and lots of people suck. Most people would not argue that. But this thread is about discrimination in China.
I should mention that you should feel free to post another article about discrimination in the US if you like.
The difference is that the U.S. is not targeting a regional majority / national minority using advanced technologies, and then placing them into re-education camps as a matter of policy.
> The difference is that the U.S. is not targeting a regional majority / national minority using advanced technologies, and then placing them into re-education camps as a matter of policy.
During the Depression, there was discrimination against internal migrants, famously the "Okies" moving from Oklahoma to western states. They were the subject of all kinds of negative stereotypes, and were sometimes turned away at the border or put into labor camps.
I don't think serious discrimination on the scale described in the article has recently happened to US citizens in the continental US, however.
I'm from Alabama. I'm pretty familiar with regionalism in the US. But it for the most part stops at social situations. I've never once heard of a large nationwide company filtering out candidates from the Heart of Dixie just on principle, like, for example, Meituan was apparently doing with people from Henan. This is a whole new level of regionalism.
Now when you get to the interview and they hear the traces of the accent that you still manage to retain despite your best efforts, well, there's no helping that.
I’m not sure how factual reporting on what is in China is invalidated as China bashing because similar phenomena occur elsewhere on the planet? Aka the what aboutism logical fallacy.
I don't think it's intended to be criticism of China in particular. "Common thing happens in China, here are the details" is interesting news for some people.
For example, I was aware that Northeasterners are seen as a distinct group, but not in terms of external rejection, but rather internal cohesion, e.g. when one of my friends joked that hearing the Northeastern accent of his taxi driver made him feel almost at home.
I'm from the Northeast. Your initial assessment was the correct one. There is no external rejection of Northeasteners. Hearing others speak with a Northeastern accent is strangely reassuring though.
>"Common thing happens in China, here are the details" is interesting news for some people.
Except that's the issue, with articles like these the thing that's claimed to be happening are extreme cases but they make them out to be common. Because it's China nobody reading the Economist can smell the bullshit as they have no direct knowledge. I see it happen with Japan related news too.
I'm from one of the regions mentioned and I've literally never been discriminated against or heard of anyone else being discriminated against because of it. The article likewise called all Han Chinese racist three paragraphs in so yes I would consider it China Bashing.
This was reported on in China, this is just a case of western news source re-conveying Chinese news. Of course, many Chinese call it China bashing if a Xinhua article is transcribed word for word in a western paper, and there is nothing we can do about that.
I can get that meituan was biased against Henan people, that doesn’t seem far fetched at all, I’m much less convinced they were biased against dongbei people but I know nothing about working for any Chinese company (Microsoft China did not discriminate at all as far as I could tell).
>Han Chinese are more than 90% of the population and their prejudice against ethnic minorities is well documented.
If I "re-convey" a CNN story and start out with "White Americans are more than 60% of the population and their prejudice against ethnic minorities is well documented" nobody would consider it a neutral piece. The article is obviously editorialized.
>Of course, many Chinese call it China bashing if a Xinhua article is transcribed word for word in a western paper, and there is nothing we can do about that.
Is making hasty generalizations about Chinese people all you do or do you actually have a life outside of this?
I'm aware of the situation regarding the Uighurs, I'm asking if you're bringing this up out of the blue or if it's directly related to the article neither of us have read.
Do people from the South (that aren't a part of traditionally discriminated groups) get discriminated against actively because of their birthplace? Does Joe Redneck lose jobs because he was born in Georgia rather than California? What do those Southerners say about people like me living in San Francisco, CA?
Not trying to be aggressive, I just want to know why you think the cultural discrimination against white Southerners is equivalent to that against Chinese ethnic groups that are being actively oppressed, or some other group that is being actively oppressed.
I'm pointing out how easy it is to pick on other cultures, when if we really stop and try to be reflective of ourselves, can we say this is something we don't do here in the US (and wherever else)?
"Oh, those people from place X don't like people from place Y!"
Do people from the South (that aren't a part of traditionally discriminated groups) get discriminated against actively because of their birthplace?
In 2019, it has become fashionable to impute beliefs on another person on scant evidence. Perhaps as little as what someone looks like, or what 'type' they are based on the first impression.
Back in the day, we used to call this bigotry.
I dream of the day when all Americans will be judged not by [surface signifier] but by the content of their character.
EDIT: If you are on the Left, then it is especially incumbent on you to call out your own side. What's more, if you're afraid to speak up, or frequently decide to hold your tongue, start asking yourself why.
It's a frequent trope in history: Sociopaths co-opting a cause and the language of movements.
> What do those Southerners say about people like me living in San Francisco, CA?
You're generalizing people here. You can't say that a group of individuals 'say' anything about you without generalizing them.
> Does Joe Redneck lose jobs because he was born in Georgia rather than California?
First, that's a disparaging term, and it shouldn't be used in polite discourse.
Do you agree, that southerners are perceived to be more racist, sexist, or homophobic by some people? Do you believe this perception could create a negative bias towards those people?
It had been demonstrated that resumes with country music listed as a pastime get less call backs than resumes with sailing. Some companies also discriminate on the basis of political views, which disproportionately limits the opportunities of southerners (e.g. asking for candidates' opinions on affirmative action program). There's also general disdain and hostility toward conservatives. Open denigration of conservatives is tolerated at my work place and discussion even includes thinly veiled threats of violence at times.
Seems in some places, it's perfectly (socially) acceptable to pick on others, as long as you're picking on the 'right' group of folks.
There has been widespread advocacy for this sort of socially acceptable "picking on" in the West and in the United States in recent years. People in the SV/Bay Area tech and creative circles will do this. A few years ago, media people were advocating that we label people "Nazis" and then punch them.
I remember people from my youth who used to namecall and label people, then haze them or do violence to them. They would have correctly been called racists and homophobes. In 2019, when people engage in similar behaviors, but for the "other" side, I see this as much worse. The best way to hurt a cause is to advocate for it badly.
It doesn't matter the professed beliefs and stated reasons. To me, the actions speak much louder than the words.
Not meaning to disagree but I want to know what are your suggestions regarding how to combat extremist viewpoints that seriously advocate for genocide (what I assume would get one labeled a nazi). Do you have evidence of nonviolent alternatives that work?
(Again: I'm not saying that violence is the only answer- I genuinely am seeking evidence otherwise as I abhor violence.)
your suggestions regarding how to combat extremist viewpoints that seriously advocate for genocide
Those are pretty simple to advocate against. Murder bad. Who disagrees with that? Basically no one. Genocide bad. Who disagrees with that? Basically no one.
However, here's how you can actually strengthen the bad side. Start pushing ridiculous narratives. Start calling everyone a Nazi. Say that even the "Ok" sign is a Nazi salute. Advocate for political violence. Basically, abandon the principles and moral framework of liberal democracy, and become just like them.
The best way to combat extremist viewpoints is through adherence to principles and a moral framework -- showing that these can make you prosper. This is basically how we won the cold war.
(what I assume would get one labeled a nazi)
Bad assumption in 2019. In 2019, there are toxic members of the Far Left who will label anyone that for any kind of dissent from their particular views.
I genuinely am seeking evidence otherwise as I abhor violence.
If you are in the United States, then the evidence is all around you. It must be understood in the context of world history, however. If you truly abhor violence, then if you are a member of the left, you need to start calling it out on the left. The best way to fight evil, is to be forthright and speak out about it.
>Seems in some places, it's perfectly (socially) acceptable to pick on others, as long as you're picking on the 'right' group of folks...
This is the US. Here, it's perfectly acceptable to pick on everyone. From blacks, and handicapped people, to bankers, and frat boys. You can discriminate against whoever you like here. At least in the jokes and social situations.
You should hear what they say about blacks, or greedy bankers, or frat boys, or women they call "gold diggers", or jews, or hispanics, or white people, or cops, or etc etc etc.
That's the great thing about America, you can say whatever you like.
Unless you care about your job, your career, your reputation, your personal safety and that of your loved ones. In that case you should make sure you only target approved groups.
There are no "approved grouups". What are you talking about?
Are you saying you never hear people talk bad about bankers, or frat boys, or jews, or cops, or blacks, or hispanics, etc etc etc?
Because if so, I call BS.
I also call BS if you try to tell me that everyone you've heard talk bad about, say, bankers or jews, has been fired from their job. Sure, you go up to your boss and tell your jokes about money grubbing jews, or joke about killing cops, and you're likely to not have a job.
But who does that? We all tell jokes in private social situations.
This is America, where everyone is discriminated against. That's reality. Mainly because as "whalesalad" said, "we're tribal people."
This entire idea that there are "approved groups" is nonsense made up by a bunch of people trying to make us think we can't tell jokes about anybody. When it's plainly obvious that we can, we should, and we do.
I envy your perspective. What I see in the news, in academia, in the movie industry, in hiring, basically in the public culture, is very different. This has changed dramatically in the last say 5 years, and I am having trouble understanding how you can argue that in 2019 we can still all make fun of each other freely.
Indeed, we probably all live in some sort of bubble, but as far as bubbles go it is a fairly large one, it includes academia, the corporate world, old media, news media, social media, entertainment, education, to name just a few domains. I can still joke around with my high school buddies though, most of them anyway, not Chad, the self righteous prick, so there is that.
as far as bubbles go it is a fairly large one, it includes academia, the corporate world, old media, news media, social media, entertainment,
Actually, you pretty much hit it on the nose! That's the particular extended bubble which effectively controls much of 2019's media and has the economic and political clout to make their (often misguided) will stick. That's a particular bubble which has unusually thick walls, while there's a particularly pressing societal need for its members to see from beyond its own boundaries.
What you see in public and what people do in private are very different and always have been. I think the best public equivalent to private behavior is anonymous online behavior, as this lets people use their private persona in public with minimal consequences.
You're talking about, "in the news, in academia, in the movie industry, in hiring, basically in the public culture". Whereas I'm talking about how people talk in private social situations. The professional world should be professional, and separate from your private life. (You don't talk to your spouse and kids the way you talk to your coworkers unless something is very, very wrong in one place or the other.)
As I've already said, no, you can't go up to your boss and start joking about killing cops, or about "gold digging women like his daughter". But again, who does that? That's just dumb.
Yes, in the professional world, guess what? They only want professionals. That's not some off the wall notion that has only arisen "...in the last say 5 years..." It's been that way since forever.
So I'm sorry man, I'm just not gonna feel bad for you because you can't denigrate handicapped people, or hispanics, or whatever at work. But I will call you a dummy for doing so, and I'll add that it's unprofessional.
But as I said before, at parties or whatever, there is no way you can tell me that people don't joke about those same handicapped people and hispanics. It happens all the time.
I'm in middle of nowhere Wisconsin, and I hear jokes about blacks and handicapped people all the time. When I lived in Houston, it was the same. (Well, mostly about blacks. But still.)
If you're telling me you don't, I'm telling you that you're talking out of your posterior orifice.
What part of the Midwest are you in that people don't joke and talk bad about blacks and handicapped people? (Or, indeed, don't joke and talk bad about anyone else.)
Chinese have different sensibilities than westerners. It's completely normal and accepted for them. They have a word for self-important westerners who are obsessed with politically correct speech and behavior - baizuo. It's a different world there.
Now if only the Chinese implement quotas, restrictions on speech, affirmative action, diversity initiatives, trigger warnings and identity politics, to protect the discriminated of course, they can look forward to the same harmony, cohesion and mental well being the US currently enjoys.
The difference is it's quite blatant and you can do nothing about it like the 996 work schedule. People of one province hate the people from basically any other province, sometimes one part of a province hates another part.
Some aspects of this discrimination are institutional, encoded in the Hukou system - a registry that restricts your access to government services based on birthplace rather than current residency.
For how "homogeneous" China is considered, regions often define people more than ethnicity or racial groups. A common greeting that most people ask is "Where are you from?" Both migrant workers and the growing middle class now have the ability to travel anywhere in the country to further their futures.
Back in the 70s or even the 90s this mixing of people was pretty much unheard of. Shanghai culture was only in Shanghai while the rest of the country was their own little thing. Only recently have the people and culture of the country begun to mix.
The grouping of everyone in China into Han Chinese is a simplification IMO. A person from the Northern regions of China can't even speak to a person from the Southern region while the culture of every part of the country is drastically different and would make the differences between Americans look miniscule.
>would make the differences between Americans look miniscule.
The culture, custom and language difference is definitely more drastic than it is in the U.S. I was somewhat bullied as a young kid in Shanghai because I couldn't speak Shanghainese that well.
However value is mostly not as divisive as it is here. I'm talking about the same kind of success is valued and worshipped throughout the country, urban and countryside alike. People also largely share similar family value, similar world view, and even similar opinions of domestic and foreign politics. In the U.S. I get the impression that everyone wants the best for the country, but they just drastically disagree on what an "ideal America" should look like. It's looking more and more like one side's paradise is the other side's nightmare.
Personally I theorize a lot of that is due to decades of centralized media, propaganda and a top down, heavily scrutinized education system, but in this case one can't help but wonder if democracy is always better judging by the extreme polarization of media bubble and social value in American society. In fact, we reached the level that democracy is only tolerated in the U.S. but not liked by most people. If you give a theoretical ballot/proposition to Hilary voters that strip Trump voters of voting rights and vice versa, I have a feeling a significant amount of voters across both sides will vote YES, but not admit in doing so.
> I was somewhat bullied as a young kid in Shanghai because I couldn't speak Shanghainese that well.
Do you think the importance of Shanghainese has changed since then? When I was there, the only people I heard speak Shanghainese looked to be 40 or older, younger people seemed to exclusively use Mandarin.
Oh definitely, even kids who are just 5-10 years younger than I am are now mostly using Mandarin only, and many of them are no longer super fluent in Shanghainese.
Basically I think kids born before 1995 were the last batch of people growing up learning fluent Shanghainese.
US is more diversity than China definitely. At least in China, most people speak Mandarin, eat noodle and rice. But in US, how many people speak English? Eat Hamburg?
71% of China speaks Mandarin compared to 80% of America who can speak English.[1][2]
>Eat Noodle and Rice.
The cuisine of China is actually very varied. Rice is more common in the Southern and Middle parts of China compared to noodles which are found mostly in the Northern Parts.
You could not find a Dim Sum place in Shanghai compared to Southern cities because Dim Sum is more of a Southern tradition. While the cuisines of Shanghai are completely different than ones found in Xian, Xinjiang, and Hubei.
I think it's considered homogenous because it's unfamiliar to most Americans.
In my travels talking to people from other countries, America often appears homogenous to them (e.g. all Americans have a gun, when in reality only 30-40% of households do).
If p(person matches stereotype) is less than .90 I wouldn’t consider it to be accurate... but maybe the payoff is so good and the risk of being wrong is so low that it’s worth it to always make the observation.
As someone from one of the regions the article claims is discriminated against, I have literally never faced discrimination on the basis of the region I'm from. And it's not like they can't tell given that my accent is quite heavy. The dialect I speak gets made fun of a lot but that's done as much by people from the region as by people from outside it. The fact that the article straight up opens with poorly done translations of online comments makes it pretty obvious that it's just another puffpiece using cherry picked examples.
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[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 250 ms ] threadI should mention that you should feel free to post another article about discrimination in the US if you like.
Of course, the US doesn't call them 'camps.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Federal_Prison_Camps
Well, at least not overtly.
I don't think serious discrimination on the scale described in the article has recently happened to US citizens in the continental US, however.
Now when you get to the interview and they hear the traces of the accent that you still manage to retain despite your best efforts, well, there's no helping that.
I've seen it happen. "Culture fit" ends up being the stated reason. I lost my southern accent for a reason when I moved out west.
Like I give a fuck about China.
LIKE.
I.
GIVE.
A FUCK.
ABOUT CHINA.
^ So to be clear this is normal too?
For example, I was aware that Northeasterners are seen as a distinct group, but not in terms of external rejection, but rather internal cohesion, e.g. when one of my friends joked that hearing the Northeastern accent of his taxi driver made him feel almost at home.
I'm from the Northeast. Your initial assessment was the correct one. There is no external rejection of Northeasteners. Hearing others speak with a Northeastern accent is strangely reassuring though.
>"Common thing happens in China, here are the details" is interesting news for some people.
Except that's the issue, with articles like these the thing that's claimed to be happening are extreme cases but they make them out to be common. Because it's China nobody reading the Economist can smell the bullshit as they have no direct knowledge. I see it happen with Japan related news too.
I'm from one of the regions mentioned and I've literally never been discriminated against or heard of anyone else being discriminated against because of it. The article likewise called all Han Chinese racist three paragraphs in so yes I would consider it China Bashing.
I can get that meituan was biased against Henan people, that doesn’t seem far fetched at all, I’m much less convinced they were biased against dongbei people but I know nothing about working for any Chinese company (Microsoft China did not discriminate at all as far as I could tell).
If I "re-convey" a CNN story and start out with "White Americans are more than 60% of the population and their prejudice against ethnic minorities is well documented" nobody would consider it a neutral piece. The article is obviously editorialized.
>Of course, many Chinese call it China bashing if a Xinhua article is transcribed word for word in a western paper, and there is nothing we can do about that.
Is making hasty generalizations about Chinese people all you do or do you actually have a life outside of this?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/apr/11/china-hi-tech-w...
Discrimination against ethnic minorities is only mentioned in a single sentence, to serve as contrast for the actual topic of the article.
Seems in some places, it's perfectly (socially) acceptable to pick on others, as long as you're picking on the 'right' group of folks.
Not trying to be aggressive, I just want to know why you think the cultural discrimination against white Southerners is equivalent to that against Chinese ethnic groups that are being actively oppressed, or some other group that is being actively oppressed.
Mostly things like how west coast liberals shouldn't decide policy for the whole country (as though they are.)
Also they refer to you with derogatory nicknames for homosexual people.
Source: I'm from Alabama.
You're making a generalization about people, that is the problem right here.
"Oh, those people from place X don't like people from place Y!"
In 2019, it has become fashionable to impute beliefs on another person on scant evidence. Perhaps as little as what someone looks like, or what 'type' they are based on the first impression.
Back in the day, we used to call this bigotry.
I dream of the day when all Americans will be judged not by [surface signifier] but by the content of their character.
EDIT: If you are on the Left, then it is especially incumbent on you to call out your own side. What's more, if you're afraid to speak up, or frequently decide to hold your tongue, start asking yourself why.
It's a frequent trope in history: Sociopaths co-opting a cause and the language of movements.
https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
You're generalizing people here. You can't say that a group of individuals 'say' anything about you without generalizing them.
> Does Joe Redneck lose jobs because he was born in Georgia rather than California?
First, that's a disparaging term, and it shouldn't be used in polite discourse.
Do you agree, that southerners are perceived to be more racist, sexist, or homophobic by some people? Do you believe this perception could create a negative bias towards those people?
There has been widespread advocacy for this sort of socially acceptable "picking on" in the West and in the United States in recent years. People in the SV/Bay Area tech and creative circles will do this. A few years ago, media people were advocating that we label people "Nazis" and then punch them.
I remember people from my youth who used to namecall and label people, then haze them or do violence to them. They would have correctly been called racists and homophobes. In 2019, when people engage in similar behaviors, but for the "other" side, I see this as much worse. The best way to hurt a cause is to advocate for it badly.
It doesn't matter the professed beliefs and stated reasons. To me, the actions speak much louder than the words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf5fAiXYr08
(Again: I'm not saying that violence is the only answer- I genuinely am seeking evidence otherwise as I abhor violence.)
Those are pretty simple to advocate against. Murder bad. Who disagrees with that? Basically no one. Genocide bad. Who disagrees with that? Basically no one.
However, here's how you can actually strengthen the bad side. Start pushing ridiculous narratives. Start calling everyone a Nazi. Say that even the "Ok" sign is a Nazi salute. Advocate for political violence. Basically, abandon the principles and moral framework of liberal democracy, and become just like them.
The best way to combat extremist viewpoints is through adherence to principles and a moral framework -- showing that these can make you prosper. This is basically how we won the cold war.
(what I assume would get one labeled a nazi)
Bad assumption in 2019. In 2019, there are toxic members of the Far Left who will label anyone that for any kind of dissent from their particular views.
I genuinely am seeking evidence otherwise as I abhor violence.
If you are in the United States, then the evidence is all around you. It must be understood in the context of world history, however. If you truly abhor violence, then if you are a member of the left, you need to start calling it out on the left. The best way to fight evil, is to be forthright and speak out about it.
This is the US. Here, it's perfectly acceptable to pick on everyone. From blacks, and handicapped people, to bankers, and frat boys. You can discriminate against whoever you like here. At least in the jokes and social situations.
You should hear what they say about blacks, or greedy bankers, or frat boys, or women they call "gold diggers", or jews, or hispanics, or white people, or cops, or etc etc etc.
That's the great thing about America, you can say whatever you like.
Are you saying you never hear people talk bad about bankers, or frat boys, or jews, or cops, or blacks, or hispanics, etc etc etc?
Because if so, I call BS.
I also call BS if you try to tell me that everyone you've heard talk bad about, say, bankers or jews, has been fired from their job. Sure, you go up to your boss and tell your jokes about money grubbing jews, or joke about killing cops, and you're likely to not have a job.
But who does that? We all tell jokes in private social situations.
This is America, where everyone is discriminated against. That's reality. Mainly because as "whalesalad" said, "we're tribal people."
This entire idea that there are "approved groups" is nonsense made up by a bunch of people trying to make us think we can't tell jokes about anybody. When it's plainly obvious that we can, we should, and we do.
This is evidence that you are in a bubble. The world is a big, diverse, complex place.
Actually, you pretty much hit it on the nose! That's the particular extended bubble which effectively controls much of 2019's media and has the economic and political clout to make their (often misguided) will stick. That's a particular bubble which has unusually thick walls, while there's a particularly pressing societal need for its members to see from beyond its own boundaries.
You're talking about, "in the news, in academia, in the movie industry, in hiring, basically in the public culture". Whereas I'm talking about how people talk in private social situations. The professional world should be professional, and separate from your private life. (You don't talk to your spouse and kids the way you talk to your coworkers unless something is very, very wrong in one place or the other.)
As I've already said, no, you can't go up to your boss and start joking about killing cops, or about "gold digging women like his daughter". But again, who does that? That's just dumb.
Yes, in the professional world, guess what? They only want professionals. That's not some off the wall notion that has only arisen "...in the last say 5 years..." It's been that way since forever.
So I'm sorry man, I'm just not gonna feel bad for you because you can't denigrate handicapped people, or hispanics, or whatever at work. But I will call you a dummy for doing so, and I'll add that it's unprofessional.
But as I said before, at parties or whatever, there is no way you can tell me that people don't joke about those same handicapped people and hispanics. It happens all the time.
I'm in middle of nowhere Wisconsin, and I hear jokes about blacks and handicapped people all the time. When I lived in Houston, it was the same. (Well, mostly about blacks. But still.)
If you're telling me you don't, I'm telling you that you're talking out of your posterior orifice.
Serious question.
Bankers can get racial connotations. It just depends on if it's the correct race to bash on in the current crowd. Same goes for frat boys.
That said, all of that is horrible and wrong. (But I will fight for your right to say it all the same.)
Seems in some places, it's perfectly (legally) acceptable to pick on others, as long as you're picking on the 'wrong' group of folks.
What's normal and accepted in one place can be news someplace else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system
Back in the 70s or even the 90s this mixing of people was pretty much unheard of. Shanghai culture was only in Shanghai while the rest of the country was their own little thing. Only recently have the people and culture of the country begun to mix.
The grouping of everyone in China into Han Chinese is a simplification IMO. A person from the Northern regions of China can't even speak to a person from the Southern region while the culture of every part of the country is drastically different and would make the differences between Americans look miniscule.
The culture, custom and language difference is definitely more drastic than it is in the U.S. I was somewhat bullied as a young kid in Shanghai because I couldn't speak Shanghainese that well.
However value is mostly not as divisive as it is here. I'm talking about the same kind of success is valued and worshipped throughout the country, urban and countryside alike. People also largely share similar family value, similar world view, and even similar opinions of domestic and foreign politics. In the U.S. I get the impression that everyone wants the best for the country, but they just drastically disagree on what an "ideal America" should look like. It's looking more and more like one side's paradise is the other side's nightmare.
Personally I theorize a lot of that is due to decades of centralized media, propaganda and a top down, heavily scrutinized education system, but in this case one can't help but wonder if democracy is always better judging by the extreme polarization of media bubble and social value in American society. In fact, we reached the level that democracy is only tolerated in the U.S. but not liked by most people. If you give a theoretical ballot/proposition to Hilary voters that strip Trump voters of voting rights and vice versa, I have a feeling a significant amount of voters across both sides will vote YES, but not admit in doing so.
But that's discussion for a different day.
Do you think the importance of Shanghainese has changed since then? When I was there, the only people I heard speak Shanghainese looked to be 40 or older, younger people seemed to exclusively use Mandarin.
Basically I think kids born before 1995 were the last batch of people growing up learning fluent Shanghainese.
>Eat Noodle and Rice.
The cuisine of China is actually very varied. Rice is more common in the Southern and Middle parts of China compared to noodles which are found mostly in the Northern Parts.
You could not find a Dim Sum place in Shanghai compared to Southern cities because Dim Sum is more of a Southern tradition. While the cuisines of Shanghai are completely different than ones found in Xian, Xinjiang, and Hubei.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_China [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_United_States
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese
In my travels talking to people from other countries, America often appears homogenous to them (e.g. all Americans have a gun, when in reality only 30-40% of households do).
What do you think?