Quote 1: The Belgacom breach sparked outrage in Europe’s political institutions and made global headlines. But Belgium’s effort to identify the spies responsible and hold them accountable faced roadblocks at almost every turn. Europol, the European Union’s law enforcement agency, refused to assist. Prosecutors overseeing the case feared triggering a major diplomatic dispute and were reluctant to pursue it aggressively. Meanwhile, British spies tried to destroy the evidence.
Quote 2: “We wanted to show that as a small country, we would not be bullied,” said a source close to the investigation. “But we were fighting against two big cyberarmies from the U.K. and the U.S. We knew we could never win this.”
Cry for the Indians.
Die for the Indians.
Cry for the Indians.
Cry, cry, cry for the Indians.
Love the land and fellow man.
Peace is what we strive to have.
Some folks have none of this.
Hatred and prejudice.
Forced out, brave and mighty.
Stolen land, they can't fight it.
Hold on, to pride and tradition.
Even though they know how much their lives are really missin, we're dissin them...
On reservations.
A hopeless situation.
Respect is something that you earn.
Our indian brothers' getting burned.
Original American.
Turned into second class citizen.
I'm neither the parent poster nor American, but from a Europeans perspective I'd say that America handles their censorship differently.
Dissenters disappear in China. In America they're discredited and made into conspiracy theorist.
But nonetheless: the tiananmen square is quite unique in it's bloodiness.i know of nothing even remotely as bad as military personal killing unarmed civilians in the hundreds which mostly just try to flee.
Maybe The Bonus Army in 1932, though far less intensified in terms of casualties. Many labor movements and strikes in 19th and early 21th century also led to death of up to 100 by law enforcement, state troops or private guards hired by business owner. Most recent case I can think of is the Kent University Shooting in which national guard killed 4 students protesting Vietnam War. Some witnesses said these soliders was not self-defensing but deliberately shot at the crowd
How is it unique in its bloodiness? You are rendering the human history a lovely picture of peace and kind. It may not be as nice as the Chinese government portrait it, and it may not be as bad as europeans portrait it either. There is nothing wrong with leaving it to the past and move one.
> How is it unique in its bloodiness? You are rendering the human history a lovely picture of peace and kind
Absolutely not. It's uniqueness comes from is bloodiness in the context of the situation.
Most crimes of that caliber happen by systematically alienating a people, 'legitimizing' these clearly inhumane actions in some way.
Take the Holocaust for example. Jews were portrayed as the source of all problems for years and subsequently slaughtered in the millions.
Clearly inhumane and wrong... And way worse than the square was, but still a 'us vs them' situation.
On the square, you got the military doing a parade and civilians standing in the way in a demonstration. Their only crime was their unwillingness to let the parade continue.
And the military opened fire on these people, because they were standing in the way and unwilling to leave
>Any example of events 'us' is actively removing from history the same way China is doing with the the Tiananmen event ?
All kinds of events, from the Philippines war, to provoking Japan in WWII, to Mosaddegh, Vietnam atrocities, to the bloody US labour history, and so on [1].
Though in the US, as long as their importance is downplayed at official politics and the educational system, you can still let people talk and write books about those events, since nobody really cares. A lot of the suffering in those events happened to people outside the country anyway.
Whereas in China, talk about their things could seriously polarize people and have extended consequences (not just the CCP elites falling from grace, but also a hellish period of power struggles to fill the power vacuum, even a civil war).
> Though in the US, as long as their importance is downplayed at official politics and the educational system, you can still let people talk and write books about those events,
Which is a far cry from what China is doing regarding Tiananmen.
>Which is a far cry from what China is doing regarding Tiananmen.
Well, that's because talking about those things in the use and people wont care anyway (it's not like they'll rebel against the government). Whereas talking about those things in China could create mayhem and turn the country into a chaos of civil war and power struggles as I wrote above. So the US can afford to be magnanimous about it. In areas where it wants to keep stuff secret, people exposing them have the fate of Snowden, Manning, Assange and co.
Instead of "active censorship", history gets rewritten much like our own memories, after all: we tend to keep the ones (or the viewpoints) we are more comfortable with. I don't even think there is a need for a concerted effort.
The topic is lies by the government. China in particular.
Mentioning other information than the already mentioned information is part of a good discussion and why social media is that interesting and important.
23 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 72.2 ms ] threadedit: I can think of the Armenian genocide but it's not yet dealt with the same diligence and tech level than the Tiananmen event is.
Macron vows to tighten media control because 'fake news threatens democracy' (2018-01-04).
https://www.rt.com/news/414945-macron-france-fake-news-law/
SIX MILLION JEWS 1915-1938.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk
ON CONTACT: CRUCIFYING JULIAN ASSANGE (2018-11-24) time 798.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hyZktgMp4Q&t=798
Assange Exposes Democrat Fascists, Torturers & Warmongers (2019-04-15).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbWiPe--U3E
Glorification of US war criminals by US politicians.
https://twitter.com/sensanders/status/1033516711201386502
https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1068900206136180736
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxEIZEP5Ptw&feature=youtu.be...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBo9X5MZqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omnskeu-puE
Hague Tribunal Exonerates Slobodan Milosevic Again (2017-12-17).
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/07/hague-trib...
How U.K. Spies Hacked a European Ally and Got Away With It (2018-02-17).
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/17/gchq-belgacom-investigat...
Quote 1: The Belgacom breach sparked outrage in Europe’s political institutions and made global headlines. But Belgium’s effort to identify the spies responsible and hold them accountable faced roadblocks at almost every turn. Europol, the European Union’s law enforcement agency, refused to assist. Prosecutors overseeing the case feared triggering a major diplomatic dispute and were reluctant to pursue it aggressively. Meanwhile, British spies tried to destroy the evidence.
Quote 2: “We wanted to show that as a small country, we would not be bullied,” said a source close to the investigation. “But we were fighting against two big cyberarmies from the U.K. and the U.S. We knew we could never win this.”
Forced out, brave and mighty. Stolen land, they can't fight it. Hold on, to pride and tradition. Even though they know how much their lives are really missin, we're dissin them...
On reservations. A hopeless situation. Respect is something that you earn. Our indian brothers' getting burned. Original American. Turned into second class citizen.
But nonetheless: the tiananmen square is quite unique in it's bloodiness.i know of nothing even remotely as bad as military personal killing unarmed civilians in the hundreds which mostly just try to flee.
How is it unique in its bloodiness? You are rendering the human history a lovely picture of peace and kind. It may not be as nice as the Chinese government portrait it, and it may not be as bad as europeans portrait it either. There is nothing wrong with leaving it to the past and move one.
Absolutely not. It's uniqueness comes from is bloodiness in the context of the situation.
Most crimes of that caliber happen by systematically alienating a people, 'legitimizing' these clearly inhumane actions in some way.
Take the Holocaust for example. Jews were portrayed as the source of all problems for years and subsequently slaughtered in the millions. Clearly inhumane and wrong... And way worse than the square was, but still a 'us vs them' situation.
On the square, you got the military doing a parade and civilians standing in the way in a demonstration. Their only crime was their unwillingness to let the parade continue. And the military opened fire on these people, because they were standing in the way and unwilling to leave
You don't think that such a situation is unique?
Communists are always down to this single argument at the end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_protests_of_1970
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_uprising_of_1953
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozna%C5%84_protests_of_1956
But also this - Blair Mountain - one milion rounds fired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
All kinds of events, from the Philippines war, to provoking Japan in WWII, to Mosaddegh, Vietnam atrocities, to the bloody US labour history, and so on [1].
Though in the US, as long as their importance is downplayed at official politics and the educational system, you can still let people talk and write books about those events, since nobody really cares. A lot of the suffering in those events happened to people outside the country anyway.
Whereas in China, talk about their things could seriously polarize people and have extended consequences (not just the CCP elites falling from grace, but also a hellish period of power struggles to fill the power vacuum, even a civil war).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People%27s_History_of_the_Un...
Which is a far cry from what China is doing regarding Tiananmen.
The same for Labour day.
Well, that's because talking about those things in the use and people wont care anyway (it's not like they'll rebel against the government). Whereas talking about those things in China could create mayhem and turn the country into a chaos of civil war and power struggles as I wrote above. So the US can afford to be magnanimous about it. In areas where it wants to keep stuff secret, people exposing them have the fate of Snowden, Manning, Assange and co.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
https://www.reddit.com/r/fakehistoryporn/comments/bm2ek3/the...
Instead of "active censorship", history gets rewritten much like our own memories, after all: we tend to keep the ones (or the viewpoints) we are more comfortable with. I don't even think there is a need for a concerted effort.
Mentioning other information than the already mentioned information is part of a good discussion and why social media is that interesting and important.
A perfect way for people living in glass houses to throw all the stones they like at others unharmed...
> What is a nation? A group of people united in mistaken view about the past and hatred of their neighbours.
> Forgetfulness, and I would even say historical error, are essential in the creation of a nation. [1]
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_a_Nation%3F
But not to worry, eventually they'll go down.