Ask HN: Is it possible to move to another country when over 40?
I've worked in the US for a while now, there doesn't seem to be any chance of me getting a green card or citizenship anytime soon. While I love the country, I am wary of the current political climate and also the heavy restrictions on my visa.
I would like to move to a different country, but I am 41 now. Is it realistically possible to move to another country? If yes, which ones would you recommend? I have less than 2 years to get ready, before my current work permit runs out.
To clarify : I am not super smart like many of the HN folks here and I don't have any money to invest. I am just a normal dev, who likes to build interesting and useful things and I am a pretty good worker.
Any advice?
63 comments
[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 212 ms ] threadThe main things to consider are possessions and relationships.
- What will you do with your possessions? Move them or sell them? - Do you have family? Will you be moving alone?
As for where, this again, depends. Does your citizenship country offer you to have a pool of countries you can choose from without too many problems (i.e. are you from the EU?) What would be your requirements for moving to the country of your dreams? Could you find someone to sponsor your Visa should you need to?
I am not from EU, and my nationality gives zero advantage, unfortunately - that is why I posted the question in the first place :(
When you say 'nationality gives zero advantage' I think you're from somewhere that is regarded as 'worrisome' by some prejudice-filled cultures, like you're from the middle east.
Lots of good tech workers coming from India, and if you already landed an US job, I'd say your chances of landing it anywhere else are pretty good.
As other people stated, having a american worker visa stamped on your passport is gonna help you a lot along the way.
Start applying and researching, there are a number of ways to do it. Have you looked at positions and do you know where you would like to go?
I don't think I am special or valuable. I guess I was lucky to come to U.S, but not lucky enough to stay here all my life.
A lot of people in tech feel like that. It's not true. Don't let the impostor syndrome affect your decisions.
> I guess I was lucky to come to U.S, but not lucky enough to stay here all my life.
If you were not Indian, you would not have this problem.
This is a great time to settle in another country. Tech is booming everywhere, and this is reflected in the immigration policies of a lot of countries.
Regarding US - yes, I did explore, it doesn't seem that promising. I still have about 2 years left, so it is possible something might change, but I am not optimistic
I've worked with Europeans before (French mostly) and am familiar with the work life balance :) Kinda jealous of it :P
Migration is crucial to the development of Scotland as an inclusive, fair, prosperous, innovative country ready and willing to embrace the future. It is essential to our economic prospects and our demographic sustainability that Scotland continues to attract the level and nature of migration it needs. Migration is not just about economic prosperity. It has helped to shape Scotland – just as people born in Scotland have helped to shape nations across the world so people migrating to Scotland have shaped and changed our own country. People from overseas who come to Scotland to live, to study or work, or to raise their families are our friends and neighbours. They strengthen our society and we welcome them.
I can, of course, also recommend Edinburgh - surely one of the worlds great wee cities: "But Edinburgh is a mad god's dream"
https://www.buzzfeed.com/hilarywardle/edinburgh-is-the-best
The rest of Scotland is mostly pretty nice as well ;-)
That’s the policy of pretty much every western nation. Which they’ve all benefited from greatly.
Even if the UK moves to a points-based system post-Brexit, I'd imagine a mid- to late-career software developer or similar would easily be able to clear any 'desirability' / skill requirement and salary hurdles.
(Although trying to predict policy post-Brexit is probably a losing game. There's any range of choices from 'the UK doesn't leave the EU' to 'the UK leaves and Scotland leaves the UK').
Probably. It requires finding a job, or having a lot of money, though, as you aren't immigrating to Scotland, but to the UK. UK's visa and immigration website [1] is actually very straight forward and easy to navigate for anyone wanting more info.
> What's actually required to gain residency (and is it permanent)?
There are a few paths to permanent residency (not necessarily citizenship). The simplest is via by getting a job that sponsors your visa and staying at it for 5 years, and then applying for right to remain. You will not be a citizen, but you will have the right to stay regardless of your job, and may be eligible for public funds.
The next best option is the Entrepreneur Visas. Option 1: £200k of your own money (can be from friends, family investors, etc) ready to invest in starting a company, or Option 2: £50k of money from registered UK VC fund or a UK government seed grant (not sure how easy this is).
Both options give you a 3 year visa extendable to 6 years 4 months, and at 5 years, you are eligible for the right to remain in the UK.
> Is there a path to citizenship?
There definitely is, but it is complicated, and maybe unnecessary. There is a kid on YouTube [2] who talks more about this.
> And with Brexit looming, will this all change in a few years?
I'm not a soothsayer, but I'd wager most of my weekly allowance (~$70) on yes.
1: https://www.gov.uk/browse/visas-immigration
2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvzTOmEPYyE
I currently live in Malaysia, they give a 90 day visa on entry and are pretty lenient on reentry as long as you respect the terms of your visa. It's an English speaking country that is developing very quickly but still has a low cost of living. It is at least worth a visit.
The more important question is how you plan on supporting yourself in your new home.
- What is your earning potential in the US?
- What is your earning potential in [other country]?
- How many years on your current immigration status can you remain in the US?
Context: I'm Australian. I now live and work in the US because the earning potential for a software engineer here is 5x what it is in Australia. As long as you're spending less than you earn you can pack many years of saving into the US in a short period of time so it's worth considering a longer stay even if it is still temporary.
Citizenship:
- What is your current country or countries of citizenship?
- Is your plan to become a citizen of [other country]?
- Do you want to retain your existing citizenship(s)?
- What is your time frame for wanting to gain citizenship?
Some examples:
- You can get Irish citizenship in 4-5 years (IIRC) and can retain your existing citizenship
- Austrian, German and Dutch citizenship (again, IIRC) require you to renounce your existing citizenship to become a citizenship (there are exceptions).
- If your goal is to get EU citizenship because that comes with a lot of benefits like being able to live and work in 27 (or 26 after Brexit) countries.
These are the options I would consider and the reasons why:
1. Ireland. EU citizenship in a relatively short period of time. English-speaking, developed economy and employment opportunities. Also, the country is relatively welcoming to immigration.
2. Canada. This can effectively prolong your stay in the US forever. After gaining Canadian citizenship you can essentially work forever in the US on TN visas.
3. Australia. Relatively easy to get immigration status as a software engineer with a college degree who speaks, reads and writes English (there's a point system). I believe the time frames are relatively short and this too will open up the ability to work in the US via the E3 visa.
There are other factors that come into play too like family situations, long term plans, where you plan to retire, etc.
1. In the last decade, the politics have definitely shifted to being more anti-immigration than they used to be. For example, it takes at least 6 years to qualify for UK citizenship. This is 5 years to qualify to ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain) and a year of ILR to qualify for citizenship. This used to be 4 years to get ILR (prior to ~2006?).
2. Adding of extra requirements like Living in the UK test and a nebulous "good character" test.
3. Uncertainty over Brexit. It's far from clear what UK citizenship will get you post-Brexit, if Brexit even happens. Given the rise of the Brexit party and the Tories tearing themselves apart with May resigning and a hard Brexiteer like Boris Johnson likely to be the next PM, a hard Brexit has become much more likely. This may also negatively impact the UK economy.
Canada's express entry is the best option for you if you can sacrifice a pay cut. All other countries are turning anti immigrant nowadays. So tread carefully in case of other countries.
IMO, money is not all that important when compared with the high levels of stress, anxiety and uncertainty about the future in US when you are on H1B.
I went that route (express entry) and never looked back and is doing well and settled in Canada without any regrets. The tech scene is getting better in Canada.
I'm not aware of all of the details, but I visited last fall. They basically allow anyone to immigrate. It's technically illegal to overstay your visa, but it's ILLEGAL to discriminate against people for doing so, and it's very easy to get permanent residency even if you do so.
Look into it.
I'm definitely slower at learning the language than I was the last time that I moved abroad, 25 years ago. On the other hand, Norwegians are generally pretty fluent in English, and our office defaults to English, as we are perhaps 10-15% non-Norwegian. But on the other hand, I probably would be learning faster if that were not the case...
Regarding employment within the US: if you have an H-1B visa, bear in mind that it's fairly straightforward to change to a different job with one. I've done a transfer for a new hire at a startup once, and know others who have done so a number of times.
Norway is in the EEA (European Economic Area), which has the same right of freedom of movement as the European Union.
Any EU or EEA citizen can move to any other EU or EEA country, find a job within X months (6 in the case of Norway), or meet the requirement some other way (be a student, be a partner or child of a worker/student, or have enough money) and then stay.
For the ordinary case of an EU/EEA person moving to Norway to start a job, they simply need to register as resident (fill in a short form and show the job contract and their passport) at the local police station.