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I had assumed that Monzo would sell to one of the big banks that forgot (or couldn’t be bothered) to make their consumer experience better. But this feels more like they could publicly trade at some point, although they might need to make a profit sooner than in 10 years’ time.
They always stated, they have no intention to be sold to a big bank.
Intentions can change.
Haha, that's ridiculous, I know for a fact they have had face to face meetings with RBS for example. I doubt they will sell while they are still growing, but they will sell.
They use RBS as a routing bank for international payments, so obviously they've had meetings with them
Where've we heard that before?
What's it's plan for making money.

As I understood it current (checking) accounts don't really make any money, they're just used as loss leaders to lure in customers.

I believe their plan revolves around lending money and then charging interest on that (like typical banks). They already support overdrafts[1] on their app.

[1]: https://monzo.com/features/overdrafts/

Right, but every other bank offers overdrafts and still don't make much money from current accounts.

Additionally new regulations are coming in (in the UK) banning you from charging a daily overdraft charge [1], torpedoing it's one source of income, which doesn't jive with it's doubling in value in less than a year.

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48553193

That bans fixed fees - (e.g. you get charged £1 a day when in overdraft)

Monzo has never had fixed overdraft fees, and can still charge a daily % interest rate as usual

Overdraft fees are also not their "one source of income"

Read the GPs link

"A 50p charge every day your account is overdrawn by more than £20, up to a maximum charge of £15.50 a month. No other fees, that’s it".

That sounds like a 50p a day fixed fee to me.

They can still charge a percentage, but that 50p per day (£15.50/ month)is £186pa on a potentially only £20 overdraft, I don't think they would get away with the equivalent APR.

In the context of the conversation, one current source of income was offered, so I think its reasonable at that point to label it their one source of income, other sources have been mentioned elsewhere on the thread though.

oh, my bad, I didn't realise Monzo used a fixed fee. I'm glad they have to change that, that's payday-loan level APR for small overdraft balances

I was thinking of Starling's overdraft (similar UK bank) which is 15% APR with no fixed fee

Here's the link to the FCA press release: https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-confirms-bigg...

> Stopping banks and building societies from charging higher prices for unarranged overdrafts than for arranged overdrafts.

> Banning fixed fees for borrowing through an overdraft – calling an end to fixed daily or monthly charges, and fees for having an overdraft facility.

> Requiring banks and building societies to price overdrafts by a simple annual interest rate.

Having millions of people lend you billions of pounds you can invest/trade short term is the sort of loss I want to get into!
Yes, just like Lehman Brothers / Northern Rock.
Weren't they dodgy as xxxx though?

I mean if you're not criminal/greedy/irresponsible.

Define greedy and irresponsible.

Regulators weren't exactly breaking down their doors pre crash. I don't believe anything criminal was found at Northern Rock (not sure about Lehman). Yes they probably were greedy and irresponsible, but then so was everyone else.

You want to be the next Nick Leeson then? (He who took down Barings)
Overdrafts, interchange, reasonable fees (Monzo Plus, business accounts), commission (marketplace: savings accounts, insurance etc).
I don't believe it offers most of those services, overdrafts in the UK are being restricted so be much less profitable [1], I believe one of its sell points is no commission on foreign currency, so no money there.

So are they planning on launching (their own) savings, or insurance?

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48553193

It offers literally all of those services.
Its savings products are other peoples, they are just a reseller. And the only insurance I've seen is travel insurance as part of a packaged bank account. Or did I miss something?
Yeah .. that's the entire premise of Monzo's marketplace concept. Really not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Monzo offers the current account and works with other organisations to offer the savings accounts (with the same UX, in the app, just as if it were a native pot). If the ISA didn't have "provided by OakNorth" in small text next to it, the customer wouldn't know any different.

>I don't believe it offers most of those services

Incorrect.

>overdrafts in the UK are being restricted so be much less profitable

Incorrect, the fees are being regulated to ensure they're reasonable and customers are not being taken advantage of. There is still room to make a profit (and as the article says, they are per customer).

>I believe one of its sell points is no commission on foreign currency

I mentioned commission in relation to the marketplace concept, I am unsure why you are discussing foreign currency, it's irrelevant to the point I made.

>So are they planning on launching (their own) savings, or insurance?

They already offer savings accounts via multiple partner organisations. Unsure why you have such a fixation on bringing this entirely in house -- the bank still profits from customers using these partnered services.

Since the beginning the company has been pretty transparent and clear in that the idea is to build the best current account and make use of other providers as appropriate.

"Unsure why you have such a fixation on bringing this entirely in house "

A bank takes in deposits then lends them out, when trying to understand a bank it makes sense to talk about them in those terms, because if it isn't doing those things, it is really a bank.

Monzo are currently charging 50p/day £15.50/m, £186.00pa on a £20 overdraft they seem unlikely to get away with charging the same level apr, which in turn will mean less profit.

They're a bank. Banks have been profitable for hundreds of years. It's not the business model that's being innovated here, it's the execution.
yeah the question is though, can retail banking be profitable enough to satisfy VC like return levels...

Retail banking whilst profitable (if done right) isn't wildly profitable, so the only way to rapidly ramp overall profits is to expand the customer base very rapidly, which is difficult as each new market you enter has different regulatory setups which require time/money to adapt to.

Also customers (even in countries with good bank transfer laws) are not that mobile in their banking requirements (in many cases), so growing quickly enough can be tricky.

Alongside the other posts, they also offer basic ISA's, albeit rebranded through another company. I imagine they take a small cut or affiliate fee through this, though.
They have a number of money making initiatives. As the see themselves as the "hub"[1] for your finances the biggest opportunities I think are probably outside of core lending functions.

- Partnership/Affiliate revenue by way of their "marketplace" initiatives. They get a cut of recommending services for customers. Recent examples include new utility (electricity) providers. [2] Also interest/savings accounts. [3]

- Monzo Plus - "premium" banking features such as virtual cards, metal cards, access to a curated "cheaper" market place [4]

- Monzo Business - business banking, initially focused on small - medium sized business with invoicing, payment and tax management built in [5]

- core lending as other customers have pointed out

[1]: https://monzo.com/annual-report/2018/ [2]: https://monzo.com/blog/2017/09/21/testing-energy-partnership... https://monzo.com/blog/2017/11/16/monzo-marketplace/ [3]: https://monzo.com/blog/2018/11/01/savings-pots/ https://monzo.com/blog/2019/05/02/shawbrook-savings-pots/ [4]: https://monzo.com/plus/ [5]: https://monzo.com/business/ https://monzo.com/blog/2019/06/24/business-banking-update/

Apart from lending, they are also making the business accounts available for everyone bit by bit. There will be monthly fees for the business and plus accounts.

There are tons of product they can come up with, like insurance, mortgage etc. So making money won’t be a problem with this growth rate I believe.

Monzo also have more customers than banks like Metro, which was older and more invested than Monzo at the time.

I'm very hopeful for Monzo, with some caveats.

They have a lot of fascinating and useful DNA having gotten started in the UK before the US. The UK's regulatory environment for digital banking is leagues ahead of America's, w/r/t data access, APIs, etc. If they can persist UK style data features through their American rollout, they'll have something no other American bank currently offers.

While my strong suspicion is that the UK's push for digitization / interoperability in the financial sector stems from Orwellian nanny-state ambitions that would be right at home in China's playbook, it would be fantastic if we could somehow manage to empower customers with access to their own information without similarly empowering data-thirsty governments to surveil and oppress.

The scary parts are probably going make headway regardless, so cheers to the silver lining in the interim.

I thought the open banking and connectivity drive came from Europe's Payment Services Directives, and was EU wide.
This is where they actually bring value right? - Delivering a good banking product outside of the UK.

Because as a UK customer I see no reason to switch after trying Monzo for a couple of months.

Positives:

- a nicer mobile banking app

Negatives:

- no credit cards and no option to top up using a credit card from another bank

- no physical branches

Everything else is comparable to most other banks in the UK. Which isn't bad, just nothing worth switching banks for.

I wouldn't undervalue the effect of getting a notification every time your account gets used with additional details and the trivial ability to look back over past transactions whenever you want.

I'm constantly surprised by how useful the app is.

That alone has been something that keeps on Monzo. I once had someone try to buy a flight with my card - I immediately got a notification, froze my card to prevent further payments, and had the whole thing resolved within 20 minutes of the first payment. With a conventional account likely the first I’d have known of it was when I tried to make a payment and it was declined, and I’d then have to unpick everything.

I’ll also admit I have on occasions gone through my transaction history the morning after to work out which bar I ended up in.

> - no physical branches

Massive positive for me. I've never had a good experience going to a physical bank branch (if they're ever even open), and now I'll never have to go again

I recently visited my local branch after shooting myself in the foot when re-installing their app and locking my account.

After waiting a couple of minutes, a lovely lady sorted out my problem with no fuss at all.

I agree, mostly I never need to step foot in a branch but sometimes it helps to be reminded that there are advantages of doing business 'face to face'.

I agree. If a bank has physical branches to fall back on, they can squander the online/phone story. This has happened with another bank I use which has a website with a broken account creation form and phone lines that just die.

For most banks, they might as well not have any branches as I can't get to them at a reasonable opening hour and they have no incentive to change that.

> I agree. If a bank has physical branches to fall back on, they can squander the online/phone story

And meanwhile First Direct has a mediocre website and terrible mobile app experience when compared to the likes of Halifax, TSB, RBS, Barclays, all of which are sub-par compared to the likes of Monzo or Starling as far as the app experience goes.

Then again, Monzo and Starling don't have a desktop experience, so good luck if you wan't to do anything more than just looking at a few transactions on the go.

Taking away the option of doing something is positive?
One of my bank accounts didn't let me change my address online. I had to go to the bank and do it.

A branchless bank must have an alternative

So what you actually need is the ability to change your address online. Not the ability to go into a physical branch removed.
> no option to top up using a credit card from another bank

Can you top up your HSBC account with a credit card from another bank? A Monzo account is just another bank account.

> no physical branches

Is this really a con? Last time I visited a branch (Nationwide), I was told to just go online and fill in the forms. Monzo let you deposit cash and cheques at the post office - my post office has better opening hours, shorter queues, and there are more of them than branches of my specific bank.

> Can you top up your HSBC account with a credit card from another bank? A Monzo account is just another bank account.

That's a good point. But with the low exchange rate and a modern app, they're also (willingly or not) competing with Revolut. I can top up a Revolut account with a credit card.

That's also a fair point - the idea of a bank account has been muddied. Monzo had "pots" which all gain interest, and they come from the same account. I'm not aware of any other bank accounts that offer embedded savings accounts.

I do think that comparing a bank account to a prepaid card is a little too much of a stretch thoigh.

Revolut isn't just a prepaid card. What they offer is very similar to Monzo, even if they started out differently. That's why they're competing with each other and it's fair to compare them.
I have to say, I'm actually a little muddied on what revolut is. They claim to be a current account, except they're not fscs protected, but they do have some interesting parallels and additions to a current account.
Can you get emergency cash from the Post Office though? Cause I got mugged recently and was able to walk into HSBC and get money out while I waited for a replacement card. I fear if I closed that account and went all-in on Monzo I'd be locked out.
That's a very good point and one I hadn't considered. In this day and age in the UK I'd consider it irresponsible to only have one bank account. The TSB outage is a prime example of what can go wrong and leave you stuck. For me, I keep roughly a months worth of expenses in a high street bank with a card in the drawer, but touch wood I've never had to use it so I don't know how well it works. Before I used Starling (I actually don't use Monzo - but they're comparable for all intents and purposes) I had two bank accounts with different networks and did the same thing there, FWIW.
> Monzo let you deposit cash and cheques at the post office

Not quite. You can deposit at any PayPoint location (mostly corner shops and the like), not Post Offices [0]. They also charge £1 for each deposit and the maximum deposit is £300. This is not an issue for me (I rarely see or use cash), but it would be for some.

Having made my first deposit at the weekend, the main issue is that the shopkeepers have no idea how to accept a deposit. I tried four places, and only managed to succeed in the end because I instructed the shopkeeper how to do it.

[0] https://monzo.com/blog/2018/11/21/deposit-cash

For me the killer feature is foreign currency transactions with no fees at the MasterCard exchange rate, both online and abroad. My "traditional" bank charges me a flat fee and a percentage for any transactions in other currencies.
Yep, that's a massive positive that I forgot to mention. In that space they're competing with Revolut rather than the traditional banks. Many people's setup will be traditional bank for everyday banking + Revolut for travel. Monzo can potentially replace both if it gains traction and people trust it enough.
I don't know what the MasterCard exchange rate is. However, someone recently told me regarding their credit card: "they give me the wholesale exchange rate, which is great". It turned out not to be so great (~1% wide market). It's good not to pay an additional fee/spread on top, but it can still be a poor deal overall.
This is their convertor below.

$10000 dollars cost £7,867.91

I googled $100 USD to GBP and it comes out as: £7,859.50

Percentage difference: 0.106947%

https://www.mastercard.co.uk/en-gb/consumers/get-support/con...

Google isn’t really an authority. The Google rate could be bad and MasterCard 0.1% worse. They could be from different times. Also, the MasterCard site says indicative only - if I convert the amount back again, MasterCard claims they are giving me free money.

GBPUSD spot is 0.002% wide (so you’d expect to pay ~0.001% for a single, instant transaction up to several million). It’s not actually too difficult to access this through a brokerage.

That said, if you could really get 0.1% from them it’d probably be considered good at retail.

The Halifax Clarity card does this, and they have highstreet branches.
they have highstreet branches

Is that a good thing?

I agree, Monzo is great for small transactions and travelling but I'm not rushing to switch from Barclays as my main bank.
For credit cards, check Tandem Bank. Worked there until a couple of weeks ago, they do several credit cards including one with 0.5% cashback on all transactions. Plus the usual no fx fees etc.
Over the last day since you wrote this I opened an account with Tandem, had to start a savings account with them even though I wasn't interested in it, applied for the cashback card, got declined despite of a good credit score, and closed my account. The person who I contacted about the account closure was ending his messages with ":D". Just a bad experience overall and I wouldn't recommend it.
I think calling the app nicer is an understatement. It's lightyears ahead of other banks.

The use abroad is fantastic and it's the reason I originally got their prepaid card. Some UK banks do offer a similar service with no fee and/or low exchange rate, I think Nationwide's clarity card is one but that's a credit card so withdrawing cash is costly (IIRC).

I also like Monzo's saving pots idea but since they apparently can't provide any proper financial statements to go along with them they are pretty useless to me. I really don't understand how that is supposed to work if you need to complete a tax return.

My local bank branch closed down last month. And to be honest it was a frustrating experience of queueing up to talk to someone who sometimes knew less than what I read from the website.

So, considering how trivial it is to switch current account in the UK, I'm looking at it from the other angle - why would I stay with my current old-school bank?

Customer support. It's absolutely light years ahead of HSBC etc
For me, having no physical branches has been ace. When I was with barclays, I could call them up, spend 45 minutes on the phone to someone, only to be told I have to go to a branch to get a statement (or something stupid like that). I'd then walk to a branch, stand in line for 20 minutes, to be told they can't do that at that branch and I'd have to ring up some other number. That sort of thing happened regularly enough (probably twice in my last year) to make me lose trust in the competance of the people I was speaking to.

Monzo having 1 point of contact means they can't push you off onto someone else/a branch/a different phone number etc. And every time I've used the help chat on there I've had me issues resolved rapidly.

When I was in mexico, a restaurants card machine said a payment didn't go through, but my monzo app said it did. So i kept the receipt and did the transaction again. This time their card machine said it worked. I kept the receipt for a week in case the £60 showed back up in my account but it didn't. Within 2 minutes on the chat with monzo, £60 was just put back into my account. No fuss. I guarantee you couldn't pick up a phone/go to a branch with a standard bank and get the money back that quickly

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I've opened a joint account with Monzo and with 1st direct. Guess which one took an hour on the phone and which one took 10 seconds in an app.

I've switched all my banking to them. So much better than high street banks and I haven't had to talk to a single person.

The UK bank space could do with some fresh players. Currently I'm looking for a new bank for my business, because:

1) I need to have foreign currency accounts. My bank has them, but I'm unable to see the accounts when I log in. They've known about this for 4 months now, and I keep getting sent in circles by the Indian call centre. They've sent me to branch twice, with no coordination, the people in the branch can't help me either.

2) I need to have an end-of-year statement for my taxes. It seems someone messed up the SQL or something, because I have statements for every month, except the end of the year. They haven't fixed this either.

So I've started looking around for other banks, but most of the challenger banks don't do multi currency accounts.

I'm in the market for a new personal account as well. Revolut works just fine technically, but I don't like what's being said about them and I'd rather not support them now.

It would be nice to have business and personal together, but that seems hard to find among the challenger banks, since they seem to not do FX. (I've emailed several over the past week.)

Lastly TransferWise does Borderless, which seems like exactly what I need, but it seems to not be a real bank account. Certain online businesses require withdrawals to be to someone (or a business) whose name matches what they have as their account details, and that doesn't work with their scheme.

We use Barclays and have EUR and USD accounts with them which we can see online and make transfers/payments online with. Allows us to have a USD Amex, and do a lot of our Forex with Transferwise. Saved tens of thousands over the years on Forex with this method, and expensing some of our USD infrastructure costs on Amex helps as well.

Last pain point for us is getting a USD account in USA so we can cashout Paypal USD balances. Found companies that promise ability to do this but after wasting lots of time turns out they can't.

Transferwise can give you a US ACH account with a USD balance which you can then convert and send. Not sure if that helps?
I use Barclays. I have a USD account that I can't see, but all the operators can see. Really quite frustrating.
I use TransferWise and they seem to me to be a real bank account. People use my name and the local bank details for the country you choose. (I've used UK, Ausi and NZ accounts).

I'm not sure they do company accounts though.

FWIW Monzo are in the process of rolling out business accounts at the moment - I received an email about it from them yesterday.
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I just found out about Monzo yesterday when I read an article regarding poor quality of Revolut customer service [1]. This banking app looks very promising, I would really like to try it but I'm in Dublin Ireland and here Revolut is basically the de facto of banking apps. How will they deal with this sort of competition?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20261823

That's a terrifying story in that link :-|
I know that's why I'm currently looking for a better alternative, but if no one uses Monzo here, I don't really see a reason to switch.
Dublin based here also. Agreed on Revolut, they have the best app in my opinion but I just recently signed up to n26 as they are a more solid company.
Big congrats to Monzo, and I can't wait to see what their marketplace looks like when it's finally fleshed out.

What's the state of account switching in the US? I'd have thought a big part of Monzo's strength in the UK is the mandated account switching service:

https://www.currentaccountswitch.co.uk/

Is there an equivalent system in the US to reduce the friction of switching banks?

I don't think an equivalent of the Current Account Switch Service exists in the US, which is a shame.

But I don't think this is crucial. We had around 5,500 switches via the Current Account Switch Service in May, but added around 200,000 new customers.

Oh wow - I thought the current account numbers were driven far more by switching. Presumably it impacts the % where salary is being paid in? But at those numbers maybe it's irrelevant!

Great job again, and as I say, can't wait for the fully fleshed out marketplace.

It's unfortunate that the fully automated service requires you to close your the source account completely when switching. I was about to push the button on getting my salary paid into my monzo account but a diversity of current accounts has its uses.

I think the justification for only providing switch and close was that it was the only way to reliably avoid double payments IIRC. Personally I would have taken that risk and resolved them manually if necessary.

I wish Monzo was available in continental Europe as an alternative to Revolut before expanding to the US.

As a product, I find Revolut to be much better thought-out offering for both, private customers[1] and businesses[2], but as a company I trust Monzo a way more.

[1] https://www.revolut.com/our-pricing-plans

[2] https://www.revolut.com/business-accounts-made-easy

Another victim of Brexit uncertainty, as I understand it - because of uncertainty of best approach post Brexit they paused continental Europe plans.
They could have just got a banking license in Ireland. I believe they still need to apply for one in the US.

At least in terms of the population, the EU market is 60% larger than the US, and Europeans are already used to paying for everything with debit cards.

Also, in many EU countries people rarely do chargebacks or expect them to succeed, which makes supporting them much easier.

> the EU market is 60% larger than the US, and Europeans are already used to paying for everything with debit cards.

I'd argue the other side and say the EU isn't a single market when it comes to payment and banking culture. I'd also argue that there are large swathes of Europe that still don't have a card culture.

My personal anecdata on chargebacks corroborates yours, but my own assumption is that the market for a fintech company is much larger in the States than in continental Europe.

I've needed cash more often in San Francisco than I've needed anywhere in Europe in the last 5 years.

To my experience, even the smallest shops in most of Europe accept contactless payments, whereas in the States the smaller ones did not accept card payments for purchases under 2 (or sometimes even 20) dollars. I'd agree that the market for a fintech company in the States is much larger, but this is solely because its current state is so bad.

Depends where you are. UK/France/Spain, yes, Germany absolutely not. Even mid range restaurants are 50/50 if they'll take card. Not really sure what you are meant to do if they don't take card and you are settling a large table which costs more than your daily ATM limit...
Yep, similar experience in Germany, and more than 50/50 if you travel further east in Europe (and that's not even counting those who look actively pissed off if you want to pay by card even if they have the facilities to take it[0]).

[0] this is a bigger thing than you'd expect and goes back to my point on culture - unless you want to feel like a tourist standing out, there's plenty of places in Europe still where cash is very definitely implied to be preferred. And don't even try if you're not in a major metro area.

They don't have FCSC protection, how is that a better thought-out offering for private customers?

"We can just throw away your money and you have no recourse, trust us with your ~banking~ beyond banking"

> They don't have FCSC protection, how is that a better thought-out offering for private customers?

Revolut started out as a "prepaid debit card for paying abroad", not as "your main bank acccount", but is closing the gap quickly and should soon switch over its customers to an EU-licensed bank entity.

I find Revolut to be better than Monzo in terms of features and costs, but it's not suitable to be used as the main bank account yet because of the lack of protection.

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Aside from the obvious horror stories circulating about customer service and culture, I don't see Revolut's offering as more compelling at all. They seem to offer all that stuff that I don't want from a retail banking service – "instant access to 5 cryptocurrencies" or "overseas medical insurance" or "LoungeKey Pass access" are just distracting noise. Each to their own of course, but the thing that really attracted me to Monzo was the simplicity. I'm already nervous about the introduction of the "plus" offering.
Revolut offers lower ATM fees, lower foreign exchange fees, disposable virtual cards for online payments, and up to 1% cashback on all card payments.
Only for their Metal subscription, which is paid, not free. Irrelevant comparison.

https://www.revolut.com/introducing-revolut-metal

> Only for their Metal subscription

False. Monzo's ATM fee is 3%, Revolut's 2%. Monzo gives MasterCard's exchange rate, Revolut gives real exchange rate.

If you take out at least 600 EUR / GBP monthly, the Revolut Metal subscription with all the benefits becomes essentially free.

The point I was making is that none of those things are very interesting to me – I use a credit card when travelling, don't travel enough for banking to be a constraint, and don't need virtual cards.

Also, note that there are already zero ATM fees in the UK, Monzo does £200 of fee-free foreign withdrawals/month in line with the Revolut free account, and cashback is only 1% outside of Europe, if you are paying for the most expensive account. This is kind of what I mean – the offering seems to suffer from the same problems as older banks, in that it kinda looks good on the surface but mostly comes with a bunch of stuff I have zero interest in.

> Also, note that there are already zero ATM fees in the UK

That makes a big difference, and it's not the case in continental Europe. Monzo then seems to be optimized for a single market and a single type of user (who doesn't travel much). I totally understand your case now.

> and don't need virtual cards

Are you using the same physical debit / credit card for all online payments? I don't see how disposable virtual cards is not the best solution for private and secure online transactions at the moment.

I have visited quite a few countries in Europe, but never found one where ATM fees are de rigueur. Actually in all my travels ever in the entire world, it was only the USA where I really couldn’t find a fee-free ATM no matter how hard I looked.

Ironically, the only European country where I ever even see some ATMs with fees, at all, is the UK.

Monzo has no surcharge over the network fee for foreign currency transactions, so it’s quite good. However, it’s a debit card, and credit cards still win for reliability when renting cars or buying airplane tickets.

When it comes to virtual cards: it’s a matter of taste. Personally I don’t care a single iota if my card gets defrauded; issue a chargeback, get a new one, done. Not worth giving up for the convenience of auto fill of C.C. in the browser.

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> I have visited quite a few countries in Europe, but never found one where ATM fees are de rigueur.

At least in my EU country, every bank charges 2% (min. 2.9€) for using any local or foreign ATM that doesn't belong to its own network.

With Monzo, taking out 1000€ from any ATM in continental Europe costs 30€. With Revolut it's 20€. The difference alone buys one a Premium subscription at Revolut.

Yes; Monzo is probably optimised for UK consumers who don't travel much – which is the vast majority of the UK market.

I don't have any real use-case for virtual cards, since both card provider and service provider still get to track everything. It's possible that it might be valuable to limit the amount that can be charged by a provider, or to allow a virtual card to be independently disabled in case of fraud, but I'm not particularly concerned about those given the ease of reclaiming funds generally.

Not everybody wants a credit card, or is able to have one. Revolut et al provide many of the features of a credit card without having to borrow money and pay it back.
Don’t you get hit by international fees when using your credit card abroad? As a regular business traveler living in europe, Revolut has saved me a fortune (I even turn a small profit with the Metal cashback)
Don’t you get hit by international fees when using your credit card abroad?

No. There are fees for withdrawing cash over £200, but not using the card abroad.

Grand parent said they use a “credit card” abroad, implying they don’t use Monzo, or wouldn’t need Revolut. Monzo is a debit card.
Ah thanks, sorry I missed that.

If you don't mind using a debit card abroad though, Monzo gives you a good rate, not sure why you'd need to use a credit card.

No; there are a good selection of credit cards available with no foreign transaction fees. I have a Barclaycard that has no fees, higher cash back than Revolut, and has no monthly fee.
Is Revolut offering lower but less sustainable costs to attract more customers?

Monzo's approach, if they are to be believed, is to try to make charges cover their costs but be small, fair and simple.

> Is Revolut offering lower but less sustainable costs to attract more customers?

Revolut broke even on monthly bases in December 2017[1], and Monzo was still loosing money in April 2019[2].

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fintech-revolut/fintech-r...

[2] https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/08/monzo-set-100m-funding-despit...

Interesting. Maybe Revolut's paid accounts work out well for it or it's able to earn profit from certain services.
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This is the second post that you've made that isn't true. Revolut is not profitable. It reports an operating loss.

What's your reason for such inaccurate information?

> Revolut is not profitable. It reports an operating loss.

It reported an operating loss for 2017, because it stopped losing money on monthly basis only in December 2017.

> It reported operating loss for 2017, because it stopped losing money on monthly basis only in December 2017.

What are you talking about? That's gibberish. It lost about £15million in 2017

> It lost about £15million in 2017

If a company was losing money for the first 11 months out of 12, that's an expected result.

> If a company was losing money for the first 11 months out of 12, that's an expected result.

I dunno what you think you are trying to achieve. Revolut is not profitable

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> and up to 1% cashback on all card payments.

No it doesn't

It's a feature for Revolut Metal subscribers[1].

[1] https://www.revolut.com/introducing-revolut-metal

It's 0.1% for most uses and it's subject to very vague usage requirements they don't let you read until you sign up, as far as I can tell.

So you need to spend £15k a month to recoup your monthly fee.

Natwrst have more generous cashback for their bill payments scheme alone.

I think it's pretty clear to everyone that 1% cashback can only be offered in North America and other markets, as the interchange fees for Visa and Mastercard consumer debit cards are capped at 0.2% of the transaction value in the EU.
> lower foreign exchange fees

Except the weekend. Gotta read fine prints.

> up to 1% cashback on all card payments.

Except in Europe, its market.

Why not Bunq? It's smaller but good.

Bunq also has an impressively good API. Way more things to do than with Monzo or Revolut.

> Why not Bunq?

I find Bunq to be pretty unique. The entire product seems to be design by a hacker who loves to think in numbers: "3 beautiful cards of your choice", "25 bunq bank accounts", "10 ATM cash withdrawals per month". Everything is simple and clear, but also a bit overwhelming. I think it's #1 European challenger bank for technically-minded people with no-nonsense attitude, but other mobile-first banks seem to require a bit less mental overhead and are more intuitive to use for an average person.

Lol, true. My girlfriend thought it was "too smart" at first. But now she loves it.
Not to be dismissive, but would these challenger banks (Monzo, Revolut, N26, TransferWise) survive once the regular banks and AmEx stop adding fees on top of foreign-currency charges and withdrawals? I personally don't see any other differentiating factor, and frankly, maintaining multiple cards and having to top up, etc. are a hassle.
Innovator's Dilemma.. you get hooked on the high margin business and are afraid to disrupt yourself. Don't underestimate institutional inertia.
I know for a fact that banks in Sweden are (and have been for a long time) adopting a very defensive position. This includes working hard to convolute legislation and introducing infrastructure that is mandatory to participate in the market, but too complex to implement/abide by for a startup, or too high cost/low value compared to the available market for an established bank.

The purpose, of course, is to keep the banks from central Europe out of Sweden, and that includes N26 et. al. They have very little interest or ability to compete with them, neither in terms of fees nor UX. Fortification and minefields are therefore the best alternatives.

A few years ago, the CEO of a (then) new investment bank famously said that they will be the last bank created in Swedish history, due to the above.

> maintaining multiple cards and having to top up, etc. are a hassle.

So don't do that?

I think I still have a 'regular bank' account open, but I don't use it at all. Salary goes into Monzo, and payments go out. It's the only debit card in my wallet and that I use.

> So don't do that?

I didn't switch wholesale because I'm not fully convinced. I feel these new banks and bank-like offers will for some time search for a right fit and may change or disappear in the next few years.

Also, no-fees-abroad is a great feature, but perhaps not the 10x to spur (my) wholesale adoption.

Maybe I'm just not an early adopter (although I use them abroad, so in a way, I am).

I have a standing order that just moves £200 into Monzo every Friday for regular spending money. Makes it a lot simpler.
Realistically banking is a mature industry and I'd expect the banks to be much of a muchness. But currently the only way to avoid ludicrous charges on foreign currency is to switch to one of the challengers, and then once you've switched why would you switch back unless a "traditional" bank offered something that was not just the same but a substantial improvement?
Thanks for your reply.

Are your financial reports a legal requirement or part of a more open business approach.

Anyway its good that you feel you're earning 'enough' money from your current activities.

I do like Monzo, they are one of the few startups I have invested in. I tend to personally use them for my fun money and still use my long time bank for paying the bills and getting my wages etc I transfer my monthly spending money to Monzo and when that runs out the fun stops.
Same here. Something still prevents me from taking Monzo and similar banks seriously and manage my entire income on their accounts, though can't say what it is.

Maybe it's the "you can't possibly trust a bank that's not even profitable" despite all the effort of cutting costs, e.g. no walk-in offices and so on. That, coupled with being "ethical" as a selling point somehow doesn't sound great in the context of banking.

Yes, I think when I feel comfortable that they will stick around I will feel comfortable with putting my wages in.
How do you invest in them? Seems like an good bet.
Every now and then they solicit crowdfunding.

You buy a beneficial interest in a fraction of an allotment of shares owned by a crowdfunding platform through the Monzo app.

Congrats to Tom and the Monzo team. I've had an account since the days of 'Mondo', and the focus on user experience and trust has endured (and if anything maybe increased).
Any plans to be able to hold money in a different currency like the Forex features of revolut?

On another note, I love monzo and do use it, and don't want to offend but I just had a look at the monzo plus offering and it's a bit crap. A different colour card and (later this year, and not specified) interest on your account?

I imagine they are doing a sort of soft launch. It sounds like Monzo has lots of features lined upcoming in the future. The die-hard Monzo fans will all sign up (and will give good feedback).

A soft launch is a better idea compared to other companies launching new premium products, like the CityMapper Travel Pass, which is more like an Alpha than anything, and there have been lots of issues from the get-go.

India has its set of branchless digital banks, Paytm is the leader.

India also has other things which is driving digital payment adoption, Aadhar based KYC system, UPI payment interoperability system. Google Pay, PhonePe, Amazon Pay and many other payment apps are now bringing payment to the masses.

and suddenly we realise, India leapfrogged many developed nations in the process

Monzo is very heavily used in physical stores in the UK. Paytm doesn't have enough usage in the physical world apart from transferring money to friends. RBI releases bank usage every few month, here is a link to see statistics https://rbi.org.in/Scripts/ATMView.aspx. Monzo is the standard bank account of a lot of millennials.

I could see something like Monzo making it big in India, being an Indian living in the UK.

I know there's a bit of scepticism about Monzo in particular, but here's the deal from my perspective as a customer and crowdfunder: it's a straightforward banking service, and has a great app (which is where I do basically all banking anyway). That's basically it. Fee-free foreign transactions are a nice positive too, though I'm not that bothered.

Some of the larger banks have begun introducing features to compete – stuff like being able to freeze and re-order cards. So that's good. At the point it was introduced though, the experience was notably better than any other option.

For me as a customer, the main goal of a retail bank is to store my cash, make it accessible, keep it secure, and notify me about transactions – basically, keep out of the way as much as possible. It's good at that, better than any other bank I've used, and I think that simplicity is underrated.

Bingo.

The fact that I can see all my transactions, automatically categorised, in an app that is much prettier, full-featured and simple than the crap that Halifax put out, is brilliant.

Combine that with a simple setup process, never having to interact with humans or call centres, and add tha bility to automatically save, interact with IFTTT etc and you have a very compelling package and I hope they continue to do well

> never having to interact with humans or call centres

Many people would argue this is a tech company's biggest flaw.

Never having to??

I can understand "never being able to" being a flaw. But if I can get my stuff done without talking to someone then that is brilliant. I don't have to go out of my way to go somewhere, I don't have to bother with a bad phone reception, I don't have to wait in a line for it to be my turn. I just do the things I need to do when it is convenient for me.

If I want to open a savings "pot" (Monzo version of a savings account). Then I can do it on the bus on the way to work. I don't have to take time off to go to a branch, or prove I am me on a phone call etc. I just use the app, and it's all done.

All I'm saying is they're less likely to invest in good customer service infrastructure if it never 'needs' to be used. There's always the possibility that something unaccounted will go wrong.
I don't mind interacting with people, but basically every company with which I'm a customer has made this a painful and inconvenient experience. The exception being physical things like buying groceries or getting a massage. All interactions with ISPs, banks, etc. involve spending tons of time on hold and then talking to multiple clueless undertrained call-centre staff.
Monzo actually has chat integrated and you can go back and see all the instant messages between you and them. Much easier to ask a chat message about a transaction and receive an answer with a push notification when everyone is read to discuss (i.e. at 4am you might well have to wait til the next day but no big deal).

I have to say the best thing about Monzo is their customer service, it's really fantastic compared to other banks. I have other problems with them though - I won't use them with their 50p per day overdraft charge, even if you only go slightly into it; this persecutes poor people - it's much fairer to charge a flat percentage.

It's weird to see the hype for Monzo, since other than a somewhat-nicer UI and data exportability, all of its features have been done before in the US. Some of the features have been around for more than a decade stateside...

It seems everything old is new again. At least with a normal CC I have access to a bank branch so I can talk to a real person if I need to.

Monzo has a proper API[1] that you can use to get transaction and other info without going through some third company like plaid.com. Obviously better long term solution would be for all banks to agree on a standard API and easy access to it. But given that is not going to happen, this seems like a welcome improvement.

[1]:https://docs.monzo.com/#authentication

Does Monzo plan to be available in other European countries? I live in France and would love to open an account with them - but you have to maintain a UK address in order to do so.
> The company is one of several so-called challenger banks taking advantage of the growing shift among consumers toward handling their finances on a smartphone.

As opposed to handling their finances on a website, like people have been doing for the past decade? Even the smallest credit unions have apps these days. What is "fintech" about this?

> The branchless bank is now making £4 on each customer it signs up to the platform, versus a £15 loss per customer last year, according to a company spokesperson.

Where's the GBP 2.5 billion valuation coming from then? There's not much detail at all in the article. I don't want to default to cynicism, but this seems like a company whose profile fits the current SV hype train, puffing up valuations and eventually taking the company public, all before a single penny of profit has been made.

Not sure I agree with this. A huge number of young people I know in the UK have switched to Monzo as their primary bank account. The business model is simple: the same as any other bank. Their competitive advantage is:

1. Having better technical capabilities than traditional banks (they have apps, but they're usually limited and clunky).

2. Not having physical branches, and the associated costs.

The article was very light on details, so I'd appreciate if could you elaborate on the technical capabilities of the app. I get suspicious when I see comments like:

> One reason that led Y Combinator to invest, Hariharan said, “was the traction with which they hit 2 million users in the U.K., with engagement metrics that almost look like a social network.”

It's a bank app. I can't speak for most people, but I don't open my bank app more than a couple of times a month; it's to pay my CC bill, and to make the occasional bank to bank transfer. If I'm spending a lot of time in the app, I'm probably encountering a problem of some kind.

I also can't link "app engagement" with revenue. Banks make money on mortgages, lines of credit and other financial products. I suppose daily logins allow them to advertise this heavily (my bank does it too, and I hate it), but to draw a line from A to B is a bit of a stretch.

> it's to pay my CC bill

Most people in the UK don't put regular spending on a Credit Card. Nearly everyone will use their Debit Card for day to day spending.

A lot of the traction it has got has been with the 18-30 age bracket who are wanting better budgeting tools than what larger banks have offered.

Are you sure? All the best cashback offers are with credit cards, not debit cards.
Yes. Cashback from credit cards is mainstream in US culture, but not in the UK (maybe some people care about this, but only ~5% of my friends even have a credit card). Probably this difference is because card transaction fees are regulated to reasonable rates.
Reasons I've opened my Monzo app in the last week:

How much did my London Underground yesterday actually cost.

Send a Monzo request to a friend who said he'd pay for a taxi ride (he also has monzo, so I can just select his name and the amount, and all he has to do is press 'yes' when it pops up).

Check how much of my discretionary budget I had left to decide whether or not to buy a game.

Pay the window cleaner (bank transfer).

I noted that stripe is an investor for this round. Strategic move towards more vertical integration?
I use Simple (bank) and really like it. Seems like a lot of overlap with Monzo.