Ask HN: Should I wait to get a new MacBook Pro?
My late 2013 MBP is aging, and I've been considering an upgrade. Rumors initially slated a major redesign of the lineup for 2020, but I've started to hear that it may be pushed back to 2021.
Unlike others here, I'm not particularly offended by the touch bar or the current keyboard design. The keyboard reliability is definitely an issue, but given how readily they're repairing them, a failure would probably end up being an annoyance rather than a catastrophe. That said, there would undoubtedly still be things to look forward to in a major redesign.
Would you personally hold out for the unknown, upcoming redesign, or just go for it now?
39 comments
[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 78.0 ms ] threadAbsent any specifics, the baseline reason to upgrade is for security updates and compatibility with software you use. If you have that already, I don't see any reason to upgrade. A 2013 MBP is compatible with Mojave and is still receiving security updates.
The slow web page loads might be caused by your adblocker software and performing the fresh install might make a difference.
I am using a 2019 15" MacBook Pro for a couple of weeks and I don't use the Touch Bar at all since I use "Command keys" within applications. Esc for use with vim works as it had with my non-touch bar model.
I load the hell out of my MBP, and it cruises right along. It's exceedingly rare that I feel a sense of slowness.
I replaced it with a Surface Pro 6 i5 edition and setup my development environment in WSL. This is the first device I’ve genuinely loved since my iBook G4 and it honestly feels like something Apple should have build.
I don’t actually like Windows 10 that much, but it works as well as OS/X for daily usage and WSL is just so amazingly good for isolating your dev environment in actual Linux.
It’s also cheaper than a MacBook, will work as a tablet and is great for taking hand written notes.
Worth considering, at least while you wait for the next MacBook keyboard.
I also just really want a real laptop. I've heard good things about the Surface, in general, but a) I have virtually zero use for a tablet, and b) I like to put my laptop in my actual lap sometimes, which tablets-with-keyboards don't do a great job at. I've considered the XPS 13, but I know the trackpad won't be as good and of course it's Windows.
Even so, at least a year or two ago, having Docker and VirtualBox work at the same time was not possible.
The Windows terminal options are nowhere near as good as iTerm or the standard Mac Terminal (which is lower latency than any Windows option).
But even if you get your dev environment working, other daily tasks are more difficult or annoying.
Lack of Preview on Windows is a huge drag. Being able to hit spacebar and near instantly popup a view of images, documents, PDFs, etc. is far far nicer than the options for viewing in Windows.
Finder may not be perfect, but it is more flexible and more capable than Explorer.
Printing a document to PDF is simple and fast in macOS, but it's slow and clunky on Windows.
The same suite of Adobe Creative Cloud tools generally run faster and with less random lag on macOS compared to Windows. And my comparison was between a maxed out Dell XPS 15 of year 2017 vs an early 2014 MBP.
Regarding price, you can't compare a Surface Pro to an MBP on price. The MBP has much higher performance and a more usable format than a tablet with a stand.
If you're happy, that's good for you. But I suspect your use case doesn't subject you to the full chasm of differences between the two devices.
You can see historical events roughly line up with that. If you're not in too much of a rush I would be tempted to wait until November to see what is annouced.
I won't upgrade. With mojave, I have noticed a slower machine with my dev workload than with El Capitan. Despite this, I'm happy and can report no problems at all.
The touchbar is completely useless. I don't like it. I am hoping that they see some sanity and offer models with and without. But I doubt it.
The over sized touch pad is ludicrous as well. My palms were always resting on it. I couldn't imagine using this 2016 to 2019 model. I hope the 16" comes back to the 2012-2015 sized touchpad.
If anything Apple should have retained the original F1 function keys and then offered the touchbar between the keyboard and the smaller touch pad.
Finally, it's not just the keyboard, they are loud and do not travel well. How is the thermal throttling? They say it's fixed. But in the UK it's summer now and it just throttles by existing!
Also don't forget stage light, is it fixed in the 2019 models?
It's all these things that make me wish they go back to the 2012-2015 sanity and make another really good machine.
To be honest with you. I'm going to hold off on the upgrade and I'm waiting until the 16" comes out. But ultimately, I want to see an ARM capable MBP. One that doesn't throttle. That would be really nice!
I wish Apple would stop being so stubborn about it and offer SKUs with and without, and every spec point.
What is stage fright?
Thanks, going off memory. It's stage light. Here is an example [0] and explanation [1].
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE9fxxMkqqU
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLALpD004Gk
Maybe there is a new model coming but if you're using your MBP a lot, don't punish yourself by penny pinching and sitting on a bad experience for a long time.
I personally opted for the last 2015 good-keyboard model. Not sure if that's still an option nowadays. If not, though I'll be hated, I'd recommend a non-Apple option, because the keyboard failure rate is simply unforgivable for the price.
The keyboard I'd say is a lot better than the 2018 versions. I've used a friends 2018 MBP where I had issue with repetitive keystrokes or no keystrokes at all, it's been two months I'm using mine and haven't had a single issue yet.
I think if you need it now you should go for it. There are always gonna be changes, updates, redesigns just like how it has been since 2013. If you're in need it of the tool now it's less like that the next update will have a meaningful impact on your work that's worth to wait.
Consider getting a Dell XPS, a System76 or a Google Pixelbook for your development unless you're specifically making iOS or macOS stuff.
That seems unfair. I've never really had use for function keys, and while I do enjoy the physical volume and brightness keys, the touch bar can certainly be put to use by power users: https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/customize-and-perso...
I looked into the XPS 13 but the screen is smaller than I'd like, and more importantly Windows and the non-Apple touch pad just generally put a damper on the whole user experience. Which isn't something I want from an expensive new device.
In this case I would suggest buying a modern Linux laptop with some kind of Nvidia GPU from Dell or ThinkPad which gives you the flexibility of a true Linux environment (Linux dominates servers) and an ML environment to learn on the same machine. You could get a lot beefier processor, a lot more RAM and a true GPU for a comparable price that gives you more experimentation options.
FWIW: I've done a lot of C++ development on first a MacBook retina (2016), then a 15" MBP (2018) and now a 2018 MacBook Air. Because my work is in C++ the Touch Bar doesn't affect me (never used F keys) though it was too sensitive so I completely disabled it on the MBP and mapped escape to caps lock.
I am perfectly happy with the butterfly keyboard, though the first one (on the MBr) did fail twice and would have been replaced yet again if the machine had not been destroyed in an accident.
But the MBP keyboard didn't fail for me. What failed was that the machine was simply too heavy (which is a hilarious statement when I pick up an old 17" like I used to carry around) after I'd gotten used to something tiny. The Air was a good compromise. I rarely rebuild the entire system, so compile speed was not a huge difference in practice compared to the MBP.
Good luck
I am "particularly offended" by the touch bar, because the way I type my fingers rest closer to the top, and on my mate's X1 3rd Gen I always turn sound on and off... :-) So touch bar = no go.
I got an 4k touchscreen Dell XPS 15 9570 from an OEM channel (no CPU, GPU, HDD, RAM, battery), put in a real 6-core i7-8750h, 32G DDR4-3200, mobile 1050Ti, 2T Intel's T660 SSD, and a 94Wh battery. Switched Wifi to the new Intel AX200. Repasted with Kryonaut paste, added some 3M heat pads. All in all cost me ~$1800.
A week ago my MBP finally stopped working, main board failure. Over the course of 5 years I changed screen twice (first the horrible staingate, then water damage), battery twice (first one popped within 1.5 years), repasted, and changed the little charging board. It's time for it to retire.
Migrating to Windows 10 turned out to be much less pain than I expected. A few tweaks for the horrible font rendering, install GlassWire (like Little Snitch), Wox (like Spotlight), Seer (preview on Space bar), Chocolatey (like Homebrew), ThrottleStop (easy performance boost), SpeedFan (for fan control), and it feels pretty much like a Macbook. I'm pretty amazed on how easy it was to just swap parts inside - unscrew the lid, pop out the old one, insert the new one. Keyboard is great. Touchpad is okay, though I miss that three-finger dragging.
1. Used Winaero Tweaker to change all the system fonts to Source Sans Pro Medium / Bold.
2. Used Stylus in Brave (Chrome fork) to add a global stylesheet with: body { -webkit-text-stroke: 0.3px; } - this makes web browsing very close to Mac experience.