Tell HN: I'm done with HN for a while, maybe forever
There's an ever present meta-discussion on HN about maintaining this high quality resource -- even if the trade-off is a smaller community. Community policing, a set of clear guidelines a dedicated panel of super-users and the clear piloting of pg all kept this site at an unusually high quality, focused and prevented it from sliding down the reddit->digg->4chan slippery slope for a very long time.
However, this post http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2053228 and the resulting "discussion" reminded me of something that's been troubling me about the site for a while... In the last six months or so the quality of the site and the community have slipped -- severely: the topics that make the front page are less interesting, off-topic (e.g. politics or non-hackery current events), karma voting is a crap shoot with unclear semantics and the commentary has started dropping to near reddit levels and moving south fast. PG seems largely aloof from his piloting role, and all out flame wars are erupting over tiny bits of pedantry. The post in question is a symbol of the state of the site. Content-free comments are rewarded, while rational discourse is beaten down with a stick.
As an example, the highest rated comment is, in its entirety "They're not legally required to be so badass about it." with 91 points, while the second highest (with 73) is "This is a very elegant way of giving them the finger.". This is nonsense. While witty (and not deserving of any downvotes), neither comment really brought anything to the discussion, put forward no information or insight, and ultimately could have been left out entirely from the discussion without diminishing the commentary about the post in any way. In effect, these two content free posts slurped up the lions share of the karma and the discussion of the post. The rest of the discussion was similarly dreadful.
Worse, the site has become predictable and a refuge for an irrational set of users focused on long-tail topics. On any given day the majority of the front page is covered by topics that represent such an infinitesimal part of the overal business-tech scene that reading them probably loses me money. That's okay if it represents a small portion of the overall content (even unpopular ideas can have merit), but I know that anytime I go to the site, the front page will pretty much be dominated by:
Haskell, Clojure and Lisp - (sorry guys, not a big enough language ecosystem for me or the rest of the business world to care)
Something about how Apple is great - (with an associated group think commentary so irrationally incestuously inbred it makes my head hurt sometimes)
Interviews or articles on people not associated with the tech business community
Weight-loss or Weight-building tips
Cooking ideas
A few politics posts (recently wikipedia or TSA, but doesn't deviate far from those types of topics -- usually with no business and/or tech discussion around those topics in any way)
And maybe, if we're lucky that day, a smattering of on-topic posts that HN is famous for.
Voting is similarly predictable. Contrary statements to "let's stick it to the man" notions are downvoted. Anything that represents that sort of counter-culture ethos are slavishly drooled over while perfectly acceptable (and better performing alternatives) are shot down. Appeals to rationality and logic are met with a public beating while illogical and impractical appeals to emotion are lauded.
The semantics o...
9 comments
[ 4.7 ms ] story [ 29.8 ms ] threadI'm kidding! :) I do disagree however, I find HN just as useful as ever!
I left HN for about two months (/etc/hosts block; it works). I just started coming back this week. In the interim, I would have to say the overall quality has decreased. It's still better than many other sites, but it isn't as good as it once was.
His suggestions to fix the problem are interesting, and I somewhat agree:
> Reset the global karma scores to 0 - too many people get votes here simply for being popular.
Yes and no. People get "celebrity" votes because they are celebrities. Setting their karma back to 0 isn't going to do any good; it's the name not the karma.
> Hide handles on comments until a user votes for that comment.
Agreed. Let's make it two or three votes.
> Set guidelines for the semantics of karma voting -- is it agree/disagree, great comment/garbage, what is it? Nobody knows.
In my understanding it was always been the latter. But it would be great for this to be "formalized."
> Require a comment for a vote.
Nope. This would create a bevy of useless comments—just so people can vote.
> Allow filters.
Interesting idea. I'm apathetic towards it.
> Ask HN posts (and similar) should decay slower than the rest of the stuff, not faster.
Absolutely. The strength of this community is it's ability to clearly answer questions of any nature. Let's have more of it.
OK, bye.
I've shown HN to some of my coworkers, and they can't handle the volume of submissions. I personally think that 's what makes HN so valuable. The big stories aren't all that interesting to me. It's the random blog posts, often by members of the HN community, discussing something new and exciting that keeps me here. It's those 10 out of 200 stories in my RSS feed that catch my eye. Adding 50 off topic stories a day doesn't change those numbers that much. I'm still skimming for the needles in the haystack.
I killed this at 52 minutes. Not that bad.
Nothing happened to HN traffic in October.